>2016 >Highest tier supercars only come in automatic

>>14191441
>>10 million self driving cars expected by 2020

AHAHAHA
Who the fuck is this delusional?

Now is actuslly a great time to be a car enthusiast because older enthusiast cars are cheap and aftermarket is bigger than ever. The future is going to suck though.

No, but it's a really bad time to be a luddite.

>PDK
>Automatic

dual clutch sequential gearboxes are not automatic gearboxes

>>14191443
http://www.businessinsider.com/report-10-million-self-driving-cars-will-be-on-the-road-by-2020-2015-5-6

And here you are on /o/ starting transmission wars bullshit because you're so insecure about being an autobabby. I drive manual because I like it and that's it, automatic drivers on here make excuses fucking constantly

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>>14191454
>do they have a manually operated clutch?

>>14191454
>Drive mode
>not automatic

There's really no point of manuals anymore, now that automatics are faster and more fuel efficient. You'll save a little bit of money up-front and a little weight, but unless you really enjoy shifting it's not worth anyone's time or effort.

Even more surprising is the progress being made with motorcycle automatics. All the reviews I've seen of the new Africa Twin recommend the automatic since it's better off-road, and no worse on-road. I suspect we'll start seeing autos coming to all big bikes.

>>14191441
>2016
>hp wars have returned
>base V6 musclecars have 300+ hp
>400 hp is considered normal
>Dodge Viper is now underpowered compared to a 4 door sedan
>Porsche is finally ginving the Cayman a good engine
>everyone is trying to out-hothatch VW
>everyone is trying to out-M3 BMW
>Alfa Romeo returning to RWD again
>New NSX, new RX-9, new Supra, next gen GT-R: the Japanese halo cars will return soon
>lightweight materials like carbon fibre and aluminium have never been this available
>we are past peak fat - US musclecars are getting lighter

>self driving cars will allow for completely unrestricted design - no neeed for crumple zones
>roads will become less used due to car-sharing apps
>dino fuel is sustainable (ethanol) while demand will drop (EV/ hydrogen)

We're almost there anon. In a few years, the analog automobile will be what the horse is now: something to purely enjoy. The infrastructure created to sustain the analog automobile will keep supporting it - you'll be able to drive on an empty road soon. There will be more racetracks than horse stables.

Car sharing + self driving cars will make private car ownership a rarity within 20 years. Read it here first.

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>>14191454
>durr my automatic isn't an automatic m-manual master r-race right g-guys
PDK is just a DCT [automatic, there's no "in between" for manual and automatic] for the record.

>>14191484
>self driving cars will allow for completely unrestricted design - no neeed for crumple zones

Interesting thought. If computers make crashes super rare, there'll be pressure to relax crash standards to lower costs and up mileage. You might actually be able to see out of cars again!

Will also be FANTASTIC for bicyclists and motorcyclists, since they won't need to be so paranoid about being run down.

>>14191511
Maybe if cyclists weren't entitled manbabies with a death-wish who blame everyone else when they refuse to follow any traffic laws.

Regarding motorcycles, that's why I want these to catch on, the issue is there'll be even more pressure for companies up to their safety standards to that of autonomous car, it's not going to be lightened.

>>14191509
The distinction really doesn't exist these days, since pretty much all automatics can be shifted manually, so effectively they're both automatics and manuals depending on the mode they're in.

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>>14191484
This. We're entering another golden age of automobiles

>>14191525
No they're not, a manual transmission is not defined by choosing gears. Even if you were right, telling a computer to shift gears if the computer feels like it is NOT shifting them yourself, whether it sounds autistic or not it's true.

Manual is defined as having a driver-operated clutch, that's it. The distinction still exists despite automatic drivers trying to muddy it up to make themselves feel better about it.

>>14191525
No clutch not a manual

You're just giving a suggestion when using a shift able automatic

>>14191525
How many pedals does it have?

>>14191533
Clutch pedal/lever (before squids get mad at me), automatics still have a clutch. Aside from that you're right.

>>14191524
In the future (probably sooner than you think) even when driving in 'manual' mode, the car will over-ride the driver as needed to keep them and others safe. That tech's already on the road in early form, with cars that will self-brake, maintain their lane, etc. Before long it'll be mandatory.

The biggest benefactors will probably be non-car-drivers - pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists - since they're actually being put at greater risk as cars get bigger, heavier, and have worse visibility in the interests of passenger safety (existing pedestrian safety standards for cars are a joke).

>>14191539
Oh boy we have another case of IDS HABBEDING. The only reason motorcycles are even still legal is because it would be too much of a pain in the ass to ban them, that's DEFINITELY not going to happen to cars without autonomous bullshit, you don't seem to realize how much red tape there is.

Also pedestrians are retarded and might not be run over if they would stop walking into the street in front of cars because they're too busy texting to check if it's clear

>>14191536
True. User operated clutch is what I meant to say

>>14191539
>existing pedestrian safety standards for cars are a joke
Well, ''safety'' is practically impossible when you're considering that a car usually weighs more then 1000lbs, and can travel at speeds between 10 and 100mph.Simple fact is that nothing could ever help a pedestrian escape completely unharmed except for either speed reduction(not gonna happen) or the avoidance of the entire accident itself. Designing cars to accommodate for crashing into a pedestrian is pants on head retarded. Designing a car to avoid crashing into pedestrians is common sense.

Mercedes has been doing collision prevention for over a decade now though

>>14191532
I don't see why manually operating a clutch defines a "manual" transmission.

Are manually shifted scooters (Honda Cub type) that don't have a manually operated clutch "automatics"? Are pre-selector gearboxes "automatics"? Because neither will shift automatically for you.

>>14191441
yes. about 2005. nothing interesting to drive at all.

>>14191562
The mechanism is still mechanically operated by you when you shift, it's not a command to a computer to shift when it feels like it

>>14191562
>I don't understand this definition so it doesn't count
Are you trying to be retarded or what? Go bounce a PDK off the limiter or try to make it stall by not downshifting, it WILL shift for you. A shiftable automatic is not a manual no matter how much you lie to yourself

>>14191533
Manual transmissions (that is, manually operated clutch) are headed toward clutch-by-wire, which will have some level of override (to prevent you from stalling or doing something else stupid). Technology marches forward.

>>14191554
>that's DEFINITELY not going to happen to cars without autonomous bullshit

Old cars will be grandfathered in as always (you can drive hundred year old cars legally if you own one), but new cars will need to meet the new safety standards which will soon include active accident avoidance.

>>14191441
>Has there ever been a worse time to be a car enthusiast?

Probably the 1800s
Or 1941-1946
Or that time they had that law to limit the max displayed speed on the speedometer

>>14191582
>clutch by wire
Goodbye feedback, clutches will just end up like on and off switches kinda like using a Logitech G27 racing wheel

No longer a manual

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Official transmission rankings
1. sequential with a clutch pedal a la WRC
2. traditional manual
3. traditional automatic with torque converter
4. DCT with paddle shifters a la Volkswagen
5. CVT

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>>14191562
>scooters are relevant for some reason
someone who can't drive stick can drive a manumatic or a PDK, but they can't drive a standard manual without learning to operate the clutch.

>>14191582
That's not technology marching forward.
We've been capable of making that mainstream for over 50 years.
We aren't making massive technological advances like they want you to think, they're just trying to make boomers feel like the space age is real by tricking them into thinking existing tech is new.

>>14191571
see: >>14191582

When your next manual car has an eclutch will it stop being a manual?

Are you offended by the thought that your current car probably has throttle-by-wire and brake-by-wire and electronic power steering all over-riding and re-interpreting your commands in subtle ways?

>>14191602
>Lost the argument
>YEAH BUT WHAT IF IN THE FUTURE

No, you lost. Leave with some dignity

>>14191591
The first gen will probably suck like it does with every technology. But good modern ABS, traction control, throttle mapping, assisted steering, etc, etc. all work fine. So will clutch-by-wire once they work out the kinks.

>>14191525
Except really you're just telling the computer you'd like to shift and it still ultimately decides whether it will or not.

>>14191530
In terms of functionality I'd agree but CERTAINLY not in terms of design.
>No windows
>Melted Soap
>etc

>>14191592
Why are sequentials so rare in cars? Is it because it's easier to grind gears?

>>14191484
Hopefully we get robotic waifus too.

>muh empeegees
Contrary to belief manuals can still get equal or better gas mileage. EPA estimates have never been accurate to real life driving. Efficiency more depends on your driving style and when you shift gears. Automatics may beat them on the highway buts that's only because most get an extra o/d gear these days.

I can beat the EPA rating for my car with the 5-speed and match the optional 6-speed's gas mileage without trying.

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>>14191484
>tfw BMW will never make a car as great as this again
don't make me sad anon

>>14191602
Nope, my current car has hydraulic brakes and clutch as well as a cable driven throttle body

>>14191615
ND Miata would like to disagree

Only problem is the down syndrome looks from the headlights

According to ZF their clutch by wire system improves economy by 10%, although it sounds like they're comparing to an engine without auto start/stop (which is possible with a mechanical clutch linkage, at least when you shift into neutral).

>>14191627
That's not a V10 though.

>>14191629
Is it possible to buy a new car with a mechanical throttle linkage in >2016?

>>14191642
That's the point. BMW turned to shit when they stopped making inline sixes and started making huge pigfat turbocharged v10s.

>>14191639
http://www.just-auto.com/news/zf-introduces-clutch-by-wire-for-passenger-cars_id163179.aspx

Most important benefit would be preventing stalling when people panic during emergency braking.

>>14191631
Fiata 124 looks better than the ND if you're after a non-soapbar, non-angry headlights kinda car.

>>14191627
You should stop looking at an M3 if you want an E36M3 - you should start looking at an M135i instead. More hp, less than 50lbs heavier if you spec it right, and it'll still have an amazing straight six.

>>14191650
Only cheap econoboxes, but you can always put in a cable driven throttle body yourself with an aftermarket ECU
This us assuming it's a track car

For a daily driver I honestly don't give a fuck and wouldn't mind the tech in something like an S Class

>>14191671
That too. Fiata looks great

I'm just worried about engine reliability

>>14191671
That's an E46, it's got more power than the 135i.
I never thought about that though, if I'm ever faced with having to buy a car that's newer than an E39/E46 I'll take a look at 135i's. I was going to have to find a different car brand to buy.

>>14191671
Oh it's opposites day today.
Also Fiat is reliable.

>>14191674
Does electronic throttle really hurt performance that much? Isn't it just adding a slight delay at worst?

>>14191707
For performance cars? Not really, but muh feels and ITBs

For economy cars? It's fucking awful

>>14191700
>Fiat
>Reliable

What?

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>>14191651
>turbocharged v10s.

>>14191716
>opposite day

>>14191681
I wouldn't be. Fiat has gotten their act together quite a bit, and when you buy a Fiata, it'll be covered under warranty anyways. When that warranty expires, that little 1.4 has proven to stand up to 200+hp - and the tuning is really easy compared to those brandnew Skyactiv-G engines in the Mazda. Just wait untill Fiat puts the 1.8 from the 4C in the Fiata to make an Abarth - Novitec is pushing on 300hp on that engine, but they keep having issues with the DCT at about 400Nm of torque. With the Fiat's manual gearbox, I don't think going over 300 will be much of a problem...

>>14191693
My bad. Can't distinguish the two. If you're looking for power, 350hp/480Nm should be pretty easy with the 135, that's a chip away.

>>14191707
With a cable you have to have seriously impressive throttle control when driving fast around a track

With a wire the computer can make minor adjustments for you

>muh 10 levels of throttle control

>>14191716
>>14191726
are you stupid?

>>14191739
Yes

>>14191735
What if my plan is to build my car as a Mid Night Club style Wangan runner. The highway between my work and home is crazy long with no traffic and is open highway so that style of build fits my use the best. My intention is to try to reach 200+ MPH on it.

>>14191618
no, they're just very expensive compared to conventional engines and don't yield mpg gains like CVTs do

>>14191859
Honestly that's fucking stupid, you need expensive tires and you'll be wearing them out quickly

Also in wangan they put emphasis in the "smoothness of the driveline" and shit

>>14191441
Manuals need to die faster, any cheap dual clutch auto can shift faster then a human could ever hope to.

>>14191870
Shit b8

>>14191525
Are you fucking retarded m8

>>14191525
Manual is defined as a mechanical linkage from the shifter to the gearbox and a manually operated clutch. Anything else is automatic.

>>14191861
*conventional transmissions I mean

>>14191454
>hop into car
>shift it from P down to D
>drink starbucks without having to shift since the car does it for me
>feel glad that I'm not driving an automatic

>>14191867
I know, but it's what I'd like to do. Top speed has always been my thing ever since I got into cars. I priced out a set of for of the highest rated tires and it was like $1600 for the set. That's fine though. I'd swap them in only every so often.

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>all this arguing about what constitutes a manual or automatic
>this setup defies nearly all of them

The poor man's Lenco must send you fuckers into utter shock.

>Having this much of a fap over what auto/manual is these days when they are essentially the same as OP is pointing out in the pic
>???
I dont see the problem.

I will never like manuals and i never will

Besides most autos have Manual mode or cheap mods

New to manuals here, what happens if I don't rev match downshift? Will my transmission explode?


Thx in advance.

>>14194628
kill yourself

>>14194628
You'll go into the next lowest gear, presumably

>>14194634
Wew, that was uncalled for. Need a hug friend?

DCTs are automatics, just like rotaries are V6s.

>>14191441
man... PDKs look like ticking times bombs... would prefer auto over pdf or cvt any day.

>>14191861
Why expensive?

Motorcycles all have sequentials and cost a fraction what cars do.

>>14194443
what am I looking at?

>>14194831
Are you talking just sequentially shifted? Most motorcycles I know of still have a manually operated or centrifugal clutch, the shifting is just sequential because you can't do an H pattern with your foot. It wouldn't cost very much to adapt a normal H pattern car to a sequential shifter. Normally when people say "sequential" for cars they mean a DCT, at least from what I can decipher

>>14194836
Looks like a Powerglide or maybe a Torqueflite with a clutch unit on it, so you would launch with the clutch then do the 1-2 shift as if it were an auto. There are lots of transmissions between or outside the confines of auto or manual. I guess this prospect is daunting for the kind of people that get upset when something isn't in it's special place and category, a few of which are in this thread.

sounds like a great time for enthusiasts to me

>>14194888
Nailed it, it's an old Clutchflite setup. I really want to dislike you sometimes, but then you're the only fucker to recognize and know what something like that is.

Just depends where you are, here in yurop the normies still mostly drive manual cars. DCT boxes don't offend me desu, it's only CVTs that really make me worry about the future.

>>14191484
thank you for reminding us all of the other side anon. May your hooning be reckless and your skids most hektik.

>>14191491
that's not a new idea. At all. sorry m8

>>14191562
>I don't see why ****manually**** operating a clutch defines ****manual**** transmission

Is your retardation clinical or just assumed?

>>14195812
So what would you call a transmission where there's no manually operated clutch, but there's a manually operated shifter?

>>14196546

Automatic

>>14191441
>Highest tier supercars only come in automatic

LoL nope, no torque converter in any high end supercars.

>Affordable mainstream cars only come in automatic except for cheapo base trims or enthusiast models


What shit country do you live in where proper gearboxes aren't standard and do you thing the rest of the world gives a fuck about them?

>Automatics get noticeably better mpg then manuals

Nope again. not the brightest light bulb in the box or rejects are you?

>>14191441
Only in the US.

Majority of cars in the EU are still manuals. At least here in Ireland.

I like manual. Less shit to go wrong and only really annoying when you're trying to text and drive at the same time.

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>>14191441
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