Self-sustaining includes food, air conditioning and lots of other complicated stuff that on Earth requires many specialized factories that are spread out over a large area plus huge fields to grow the resources.
Now you're going to tell me you're going to have them built on hovering platforms on Venus within the next 100 or so years?
"Crazy shit" you throw money at should only sound crazy to others. If you don't have a strategy that you can believe in you are just wasting your money.
Now, I can't say I know everything that Elon knows. But I just don't see an angle where his Mars colony could work out the way he seems to be imagining it within the next few decades.
Some people still don't believe it.
But it's precisely because we have made this progress and understand what is involved in actually bringing the equipment there that we also know our limits.
 Martian soil is toxic. Containing high levels of perchlorate, any farming we do on Mars will need to be hydroponic, or we'll have to devise a way to alter Martian soil to suit our purposes.
 Weak magnetosphere means that any atmosphere we generate through efforts to terra form will be swiftly removed via solar winds. We would also be more exposed to solar radiation living on Mars.
 There is a limit to human physiology when we travel away from a habitable environment. This might sound stupidly obvious, but in the same sense that you need warmth in order to survive, you need gravity as well. Gravity has a fundamental effect on how we live, from gastro intestinal metabolism, to the function of fluids in your body. There is a physical limit to how long a human can survive in micro-G before fatal bone frailty and muscle deterioration would make returning to a 1G environment nearly impossible without immediate emergency medical aid.
We are so not going to Mars any time soon, and the fact that people won't shut up about it is troublesome, if not hilarious. We can barely manage to survive at the South Pole, and Musk wants to start investing in building Space Vegas.
Truth is, we should have focused on keeping this planet habitable, but I guess that's a problem for who ever manages to survive the next great catastrophe, if there is one.
Personally, I think that people are going to keep fucking, gorging and shitting until we have no other choice but to resort to fascism to rebalance civilization.
I am not as confident as you are, but I agree that if we sent out a few thousand of those seeds to carefully selected planets there would be a real chance of a few of them resulting in something beautiful, a few million years down the line.
Evolution is slow, Anon, and the amount of resources we would need to put into such a project would necessitate industrial production of unprecedented levels, further damaging our already badly damaged habitat
And I would love to hear more about this "technology" you speak of, that allows us to somehow speed up the "process"
You're aware he also owns Tesla, right? Tesla's ultimate goal is to mass produce high quality electric cars for dirt cheap so everyone can get one. That wouldn't solve the electricity itself being produced cleanly but it'd be a huge step.
People who advocate space colonization as a solution to our problems display an astounding lack of critical thinking. If we can't fix the world we have, which, though damaged is still infinitely more capable of supporting us, what hope do we have of survival on some sterile desert planet with dramatically different conditions than we evolved in? Oh, you're worried about climate change? Let's move to Mars where the average temperature is eighty-one degrees below zero!
Likewise, if we can't fix our societal problems here on Earth where we can at least move far away from people with whom we cannot get along, what hope is there for a society in a tin can?
Which is why prisons are such utopian environments? And before you say the comparison isn't fair, it is. Prisons are run as totalitarian dictatorships, and so must be space colonies. There will be no choice of vocation. Everyone must perform their assigned duties for the survival of the colony. You are carefully allotted rations. Conditions are spartan, with little unnecessary luxury to be found.
But you say it's still different from prison because the people volunteered to be there? The first generation, yes. When they start having children, do you think there will be no resentment when they learn of the splendors of the earth and how their parents consigned them to a life of subsistence living? Do you think there will be no bitterness when they watch movies of children running freely beneath blue skies while birds sing when all they've ever known is the low metal ceiling of cramped hallways and the hum of oxygen regenerators?
>you say it's still different from prison
Yes, for a simple reason. Because prisons have prison mentalities. A ship that's going towards a (hopefully bright) future has a very different mindset from a prison. People aren't there in the two categories of inmates and wards but civilians and police force. That's a major difference.
It's not perfect, I agree. I was speaking about the social aspect, I didn't think about the personal one.
That is a point that would need to be addressed though.
Spaceships have very obvious limitations in terms of size, and you need a certain minimum of population for a colonial ship.
We need to decrease worldwide energy consumption by 60% within the next 20 years.
Do you even know how mhuch 60% of the worldwide energy is?
At this point we cant even use cars anymore, not even electric ones.
Besides that do you even know how mhuch energy goes into making a single car?
We need to mine resources wich are mined by one the biggest trucks in the world that are extremely polluting. These trucks require diesel, because electric motors won't do shit to haul couple tons of mined resources.
The get the diesel we need to harvest oil.
Our entire world economy is so integrated that we need to shut down everything to decrease energy consumption.
This isn't even about making energy consumtion more efficient anymore, so that in turn we can produce even more shit for a little bit less energy.
It's either stopping society, or extinction.
but I know everyone will say the first one is impossible. Since we love our porn, catvideos, tv, and other crap too mhuch.
So. good luck in the post-acopalypse
About as hard as living in McMurdo base down on Antarctica, just further away and with even less atmosphere, most of which is CO2, and with slightly higher radiation levels due to no field or ozone.
So, thicker walls and a massive fuck-ass rocket will do the job.
Everything else is similar, same levels of visibility, same temperature extremes, same horribly heavy storms capable of covering things (just one is ice storms, the other is dust)
We can adapt. It will take about 20 generations to adapt to a comfortable life, but we can still adapt. (2000~ odd years, about average for large scale internal changes to be noticeable through general drift and mutation)
The lives of those 19 previous generations, however, will be the horrible ones.
Evolution is very "plastic", it is fully capable of evolving over short periods and we HAVE seen it happen in nature plenty of times.
We've seen entire birds species split in half, mammals, canines and loads of other groups even in a matter of a few decades.
Mars, of course, is a whole different issue. A lot of our biochemistry depends on gravity directly or indirectly, from simply gravity-orientated pressures to walking-induced cycling processes in the spine, digestive and brain areas.
That plus our size is the only reason it will take a pretty larger jump in adoption time of such an environment.
Well, I don't think the first people there are going to be Wal-Mart employees and dentists.
Obviously you send the best and the brightest, and materials. And they follow the plan. Shit hits the fan, the best and brightest work it out.
that wasn't even an idea until the 18th century, and even then was contained to a very small group of people.
Everyone from the Ancient Greeks on down knew the Earth wasn't flat. Stand on a shore and watch a ship disappear over the horizon: bam, proof the Earth isn't flat. Almost every culture knew that. Flat Earth was never a dominant idea anywhere, not even close.
Elon Musk can't project 100 years into the future.
If he thinks that humans are still going to be a biological substrate within the same timeframe that humans can feasibly colonise Mars, then despite obviously being smart enough to run Tesla and shit, he is having a hard time understanding the content of The Singularity is Near which I am sure he has read.
>"We have to colonize a cold, desolate rock that can't support human life without extensive biosphere technology before this planet we've lived on for millions of years naturally with only a few major problems before the nine gojillionth war of human history starts."
Laughing out loud, wut? This guy has a serious messiah complex, what a lame, spoiled, delusional fuck.
We should send microbes and Von Neumann machines to other habitable areas. Humanity suffers from way to much humanocentrism. We could have become a tier 2 society by now and as soon as spaceflight becomes affordable someone will send life or replicating shit to new environments.
Here's a crazy idea
How about instead of colonizing an inhospitable planet that doesn't even have gravity fit for human life
We just build and throw research money at space stations where we're more likely to be able to imitate gravity and not need years to travel to and from planets.
just because we can't get perfect 0 emission, it doesn't mean we should give up everything altogether and not even try.
more likely to imitate gravity in space station? sci-fi movies are fun, but nope. there is more gravity on Mars than in space. period. and we're not going to build space stations with the mass of a planet.
We can certainly make more livable space vessels though, to make the travel more comfortable.
>Weak magnetosphere means that any atmosphere we generate through efforts to terra form will be swiftly removed via solar winds.
Just drop a nuke in the center of the planet to restart the core. We've already done it with Earth so it should be no problem on a smaller planet.
> Weak magnetosphere means that any atmosphere we generate through efforts to terra form will be swiftly removed via solar winds. We would also be more exposed to solar radiation living on Mars.
This isn't solvable instantly, but here's one possible solution: