http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/12060671/Fat-but-fit-counts-for-nothing-scientists-say-obesity-is-what-drives-early-death.html
>Scientists said the findings, published in the International Journal of Epidemiology, demolished the myth that being fit was sufficient to protect health, and could compensate for obesity.
Thoughts, /news/?
>>10755
That took them 30 years to realize?!
So /fit/ and their "bear mode" is a load of bullshit?
>>10758
Bear mode is different.
True bear modes look fat but they have a lower BF % than the average man. If you look at a lot of powerlifters, for example, they have a big gut but no rolls. SOME muscle is also usually able to be seen, mostly around the shoulder/arm area. It's not exactly healthy, but pro powerlifters would be lowering the amount of weight they'd be able to move if they ever cut.
>>10756
came here to say this. Let's hope Hambeasts of All Ethnicities & Sizes realises they're disgusting pos
SWEDEN NO!!!!!
>>10755
>demolished the myth that being fit was sufficient to protect health, and could compensate for obesity.
That myth existed?
>>10783
STFU and serve me more food, slave. And treat my illnesses while you're at it, do what you're FUCKING PAID TO DO, BITCH. If it wasn't for people like us you wouldn't have a job.
>>10793
That's why I included haes in the title (healthy at every size). There's websites, blogs, and an entire movement trying to convince people of that myth
>>10756
That took them 30 years to prove. You don't understand how science works, do you?
>>10755
Seems self-evident to me that being fat is inherently unhealthy. All the extra weight puts stress on every part of your body that thin people simply don't have.
>>10795
kek, I don't waste my human resource on treating people who are doomed
>>10803
apples to oranges. The emphasis was that: They wasted 30 years to "prove" something that should be obvious to the general public
>>10824
Assuming that just because something is obvious means its true is a pretty bad way to gain any new knowledge.
Based science backing me up on my inherent hate for fatties.
>>10825
it's not about gaining new knowledge.
It's about knowing the fundamentals to life.
Like if you eat like a farm pig you'll have the life span of one
>>10832
Without proof that's just conjecture.
>>10832
It's still worth proving.
>>10833
Considering there have been hundreds of studies linking obesity and higher BMI to multitudes of risk factors like hypertension, sleep apnea, heart disease, strokes, diabetes and more, you could infer that an obese person is definitely not healthy. This conjecture is also supported by the fact that heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US and has been growing steadily to be one of the major causes of death worldwide. As obesity rates have risen dramatically, heart disease seems to have risen, as well as all the other obesity risk factors. One could make the connection that perhaps lots of people are dying of preventable diseases caused by obesity because there are more obese people, and it's not at all healthy to be obese.
The stupid part is that most fat people know they're fat and just dgaf. They don't have the motivation to change and another study proving it's unhealthy won't matter. They spent 30 years on a study that the most adamant of HAES folks won't bat an eyelash at- they'll dismiss it like they do every single medical study that indicates being 400lbs at a BMI of 70 is unhealthy as fuck. They spent time and money on a "no duh" study that no one affected will listen to.
>>10838
>They spent time and money on a "no duh" study that no one affected will listen to.
Studies like this are one more way to fight the HAES nonsense. It's not wasted if it convinces more people to take responsibility for their situation and change their choices.
>>10824
Yes, kinda like how we assumed fat was bad, when in fact it is the exact opposite, fat is the thing that STOPS you getting obese.
The reason people get obese is consuming low fat with heavy carbs and protein.
Your body freaks the fuck out and stores any fat it can get its hands on, even before using it for energy, which is why obese people always feel like shit, headaches and so on.
Diet foods are literally the Obese Causer.
There are entire groups of people that live off nothing but oily, fatty diets from fish and meat, eat absolutely zero grains, plant, veg, fruit, nothing, just pure meat and fish, and have some of the healthiest people on the fucking planet.
B-B-B-BUT FATS BAD.
It is hilarious how far behind American food science is. The rest of the world knew this decades ago.
Meanwhile in America, "durrrr only eat a few eggs a week". Pfft.
Eggs are one of the fucking healthiest things you can eat. Yes, that includes the cholesterol. Fuck.
The only reason that shit hardens in arteries is lack of a good diet and activity. Physical activity cycles and vibrates your body in, quite literally, functional ways. Your body moving is a feature of maintenance of itself. Without it, shit has enough time to stick to vein walls, neurons and cause plaque build-up.
The real question is if weight loss alone is enough to fix the health problems associated with obesity. There have been almost no studies showing an intervention that caused people to drop from obese to normal weight and not regain the weight over months-years.
The only exception is bariatric surgeries and there are not enough surgeons in the world to give every single overweight to obese person the surgery. Even if there were not disturbingly high levels of complications.
The question is no longer whether being obese is okay, it is if there is any proven way to fix the problem once you have it. People are quick to hate on fat people but there are literally no scientifically accepted solutions at this point. Yes there are plenty of anecdotal examples of people losing weight and keeping it off, but the first person who can generalize that to a solution that works on a population level will be the real hero.
>>10942
>Without it, shit has enough time to stick to vein walls, neurons
Are you claiming that myelin is bad?
>>10946
I find this a difficult issue because the problem is quite simply that people don't stick to diets. It's hard to pity someone when all their issues are their own fault
>>11008
At some point don't we have to consider it a mental illness though? Telling a fat person that they should just eat healthy is like telling somebody with severe depression that they should just not kill themselves
>>11008
I like to make fun of fat people too, but I eat huge amounts of disgusting shit on a regular basis and the only reason I don't look like Dale the Whale is because I won the genetic lottery.
I'd be very interested in the full article on this, anyone know when it'll be coming out? I've always been on board with HAES is bullshit, but the results sound a bit too perfect considering how difficult it is to draw conclusions across a 30 year period
>>10755
Everything drives early death.
Going outside drives early death.
Sun drives early death.
Eating drives early death.
Anything that "uses" your organs, that is requiring them to "work" is in fact tiring them and this drives an early death.
You want to live very long ?
Sleep a lot (like 11 hours every night), eat very small amount of food and only the best quality/freshness, a little bit of everything sugar, fat etc you need them but not too much.
Never be sick, avoid colds and injuries.
Do sports but not too much and not too long, not too tiring.
Don't work but study/read instead
Don't be stressed
Laugh at least once a day.
>>11024
What about the body's original repairing mechanisms?
>>11024
This is such bullshit that I won't even bother addressing all the flaws with it
>>10946
It is by far the easiest solution but its so hard to pull off for most.
Simply eat less. Cant beat kcal in kcal out. But sticking to a diet is hard.
Hell, its even tough for skeletons who want to put on some mass.
Most regular people are just lucky that their satiation kicks in before they eat too much.
But if your point of satiation is fucked because of bad upbringing or bad habits or whatever its actually tough to break out of that.
Its no different from those who eat too little.
>>11043
Most regular people actually DON'T have their satiation impulse kick in, though. Overweight, if not obese, has become the norm.
>>11024
Literally normie copypasta
>>11008
>>11018
This is an important point as well, I think it needs to be better established if unhealthy lifestyle choices are still harmful over the longterm for people that do not gain weight. Because if not then clearly the fat is the issue, but if someone who is outwardly skinny but eating shit all the time and not moving also has health issues then we should focus more on lifestyle change than on weightloss.
If someone eats healthy and exercises but does not lose the weight is that better or worse than someone who just starves themselves down to a 'better' weight without exercising and still eats unhealthy foods?
Is it the lifestyle change or the weightloss that really matters? I think people are influenced to believe the weightloss angle because that is the more profitable way to look at it for weightloss supplements and products.
>>11065
>normie
Literally normie word.
>>10946
the problem is the idea of a diet
>i can eat diet for a while, lose weight, be healthy, then eat like a swine again, because its not like it's this constant intake of cals will return me to the exact weight.
no, it's about making a change forreal and sticking to it. there is no "dieting" as people see it.
>>11081
>If someone eats healthy and exercises but does not lose the weight
>eats healthy and exercise
>not lose the weight
choose one.
>>10838
>Considering there have been hundreds of studies linking obesity and higher BMI to multitudes of risk factors like hypertension, sleep apnea, heart disease, strokes, diabetes and more, you could infer that an obese person is definitely not healthy.
do you get why this is stupid now?
Studies are done to prove something or prove something doesn't work, you needed all those "stupid obvious studies" to scientifically prove X or Y because just coming to a conclusion out of correlation leaves room for doubt, this study removes that doubt by proving it's misplaced.
>>11150
>eats healthy and exercise
>not lose the weight
I choose both, my sister has an autoimmune disease, she literally eats nothing other than raw or boiled vegetables and walks 1 1/2 hours a day and she keeps gaining weight.
And it isn't going to stop.
Check your privilege normie.
>>11155
Then I guess your sister defies the laws of physics if she is creating energy out of nothing.
>>10755
>The study of 1.3 million men found that obese people with high levels of aerobic fitness were 30 per cent more likely to die prematurely, compared with those were slim, despite taking little exercise.
How in the flying fuck can you be "fat with high levels of aerobic fitness"? Don't aerobics burn fat? How the hell can you be good at them and still be fat?
Wtf does that even mean?
>>11156
I guess so, or maybe neither of us are doctors and there's actually a very reasonable explanation for what's going on.
>>11155
Lupus?
>>11157
They work out a lot but also eat a lot. Like an offensive lineman
>>11158
Yeah, like she's not actually eating only what you say and she's just eating other food elsewhere.
Or it's just bloat and not actual fat.
>>11162
Isn't that the kind of exercise that build muscle? Anaerobic exercise? Aerobic exercise is the one that burns fat which is why runners are skinny as fuck.
>>11164
>Yes
Yeah that happens sometimes.
>>11165
30 minutes if cardio will only been a few hundred calories. A poor diet + half hour of cardio every day could easily still result in a surplus. That's why common fitness advice is that diey is much more important than exercise. A lot of fat people are active but still eat poorly and don't realize that exercise can't really overcome a bad diet
>>11156
The thing is exercise makes up a very small amount of total calories burned - the majority of it is due to base metabolic rate. BMR is very responsive to energy intake and can drop in response to fasting, sickness, and other conditions.
It is possible to lose weight if you just continue to drop calories, but at a certain point you risk malnutrition and other issues.
>>11165
aerobic exercise uses fat as a fuel source during the activity, anaerobic exercise uses sugar as a fuel source during the activity. But this doesn't directly correlate with how your body will look from doing either type of exercise just like eating fat won't automatically make you fat.
There's a whole host of metabolic adaptations between the fuel used during exercise and how your body looks long term.
>>11171
I know that, but you physically can't get fat if you only eat vegetables unless you eat a fucking absurd amount of them or fill up completely on potatoes or something, especially if she really does get exercise.
>>11173
you definitely can if your BMR is low enough. Especially if like a lot of people with chronic illness she spends the rest of her time not moving very much at all.
I'm not saying it's likely but there's no law of the universe that says you won't get fat eating veggies, it's just much harder to do than if you're eating more processed foods
>>11175
Sure there is. Your body can't make calories out of nowhere. If she's eating very little in terms of calories, she can't synthesize them out of nowhere. That's not how it works. At worst, that could be bloating but not actual fat.
Old news to me, "fat but fit" is a nice justification my morbidly obese friend gives me when we get into health discussions. It's nice your body hasn't fallen apart yet due to the stresses of obesity.
>>11026
oxygen kills it off
>>11155
Calories in, calories out. Ffs bro, stop making yourself look like an idiot.
>not knowing pro ana is the best way to live
>>11155
your "sister", which is most likely yourself, is lying about what she eats and how much she exercises.
She in all likelyhood gorges on junk food when no one is looking, and says she walks that long by cheating on a fitbit or just plain lying.
Fatties are deplorable beasts.
>>11178
right but you can get a totally adequate amount of calorie from vegetables, they are lower calorie but not no calories. Say 1,500 calories a day in food, approx 250 calories burned in a walk and a BMR of only 1,000 calories due to sickness/other issues and you are still at 250cal/day surplus. And with no reason to be building muscle mass and a body in metabolic decline that is all moving towards fat storage.
>>11230
Too bad calorie estimations on food can be off by as much as 50% depending on the calculations and there isn't an effective way to estimate metabolic rate without getting an oxygen consumption test.
>>11324
You can gain weight that way but at some point your BMR will go up because you have to maintain that current weight somehow.
Gaining weight is definitely possible.
Going full american fat is next to impossible.
Your sister is secretly chomping on those burgers.
>>11326
kcal in kcal out still applies and will always apply.
You dont need a test to see your BMR.
If your diet is stable and you notice that you are gaining weight you are eating too much. Simple as that.
>>10942
seriously just shut the fuck up
>>10795
>be socialist fuck
>It's my right to tell everyone else what to do!
>socialist policies eventually make everyone pay for all decisions of everyone
>See, I was right all along!
>>11288
>your "sister", which is most likely yourself
this is an anonymous imageboard I have no need to lie about anything.
I'm not even that anon
Yes I am
No I'm not
I am (I'm not)
>is lying about what she eats and how much she exercises.
The second is possible, not the first.
>She in all likelyhood gorges on junk food
If she did that she probably would have gone on the organ transplant list a year ago, or 6 months ago, or last week.
>Fatties are deplorable beasts.
clearly you have experience, mirror not your friend?
>>11368
Last line is a bit predictable, the classic "no you!" response
Even with all the prohibitive diseases in the world, one cannot create mass out of nothing. If she's gaining weight, she just needs to take in fewer and fewer calories until she doesn't. It's really that simple.
Really.
>>11018
>I eat huge amounts of disgusting shit on a regular basis
I guarantee it's not nearly as much as Dale the Whale.
>>10835
Did you even read the study? Fatfags will do anything to justify their terrible lifestyle
>>11154
Thats not how this works. The assumptions made based off the findings in the collective body of work more or less claim the consequent; obesity leads to early human death. It is inexorably linked to various fatal health conditions, and numerous other preconditions for critical illness.
Excess fats stored in the body are not inherently good for you. That doesnt mean they are ok. That means they are the drivers for other onset illness.
How is this so hard to understand?
>>11171
So what are you claiming here? That a healthy lifestyle DOESNT involve regular exercise? Tell me anon, does your hamplanet sister get her 90-120 minutes of high intensity exercise per week? Its not a lot to ask you lazy fuck
>>11178
This. the mental gymnastics people use to justify their bad habits and behaviors. Its sickening
>>11178
To be fair, some diseases cause fluid retention and edema that would not be attributable to caloric intake, but still increase mass.
>>11667
Take a look at the UK show Secret Eaters. The follow fatties 'who just can't seem to lose the pounds' with cameras and record what they eat. Then ask "how much do you think you ate this week?"
They will invariables say something like
>Oh, very little. No more than 1500kcals a day. And all healthy stuff too. I don't know why I'm not losing weight.
Then the show what they actually ate, counting it all up.
>Well for breakfast you had sausage, bacon, eggs and fries, then a morning snack of some doughnuts, lunch was a burger with extra fries and a large soda then a feast of KFC, potato and grilled cheese for supper
Total: 4000+ kcals
>Oh gosh, how did that happen
>>11324
Then at that point she'd be eating too much for her activity level and should eat less. I fail to see anything wrong with what that guy said.
>>11539
This. Skelefags are as deluded as landwales. The termoshit also applies to you.
>dudeee I eat so much xD
No, fuck off. I can eat the double of that and still not satisfied.
>>11155
Some autoimmune diseases can cause water retention. But liquid=/=fat. If your sister has fat under her skin, she's pretty much lying.
>>10756
This. Someone thought a 30 year study was required to prove this.