>oh, you saw it on our website? well we don't have that

Fuck LBS

>>915340
what kinda shit lbs is that. I went to my lbs to test out a CAAD10, but it was one size too large for me. I asked if he could get a smaller one, he said yes and I can ride the larger size in the meantime, swapping it for the smaller one when it arrives.

>>915340
I work at an LBS and still have to deal with this shit.
The only positive aspect I can say about the experience for most people is that an LBS will solve all your compatibility problems, so someone doesn't buy the wrong stem for the wrong bars or something like that.
then again, nonretards would be able to figure that out.

>>915367
whoa, that's legendary service.
the LBS is taking a huge hit over the fact that they have to recable your bike and risk that the large frame is going to come back with a little wear on it that might bother a future customer.

>>915368
The mechanics told me they don't make a whole lot of money from bike sales, a lot of it actually comes from bike servicing. I've seen some messed up shit, people paying $20 to get a flat tube changed without hesitating.

>>915370
This is true. The markup on bikes is generally only 60%.
The cost to my LBS for an LHT is 900 bones.

>>915370
I don't necessarily have a problem with that. $8 for a tube, $12 for labor. How often do people get flats these days anyway? Like once a year at best?

>>915373
>12$ for labor
what fucking liberal city do you live in where someone makes 40/hr?
it takes 15 minutes tops to change a tube, even on the most ridiculous rim/tire combo with bolt on hubs.

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>>915375
>what is shop overhead
>everything should be free
It's funny how you inbred hicks bitch and moan about taxes and entitlement when you're the ones who benefit the most from my high taxes and you're the ones who hate businesses charging a fair rate for services rendered and paying their employees a living wage.

>>915376
My point isn't so much about shop overhead, again, I work at a bike shop.

The boss usually charges between 5 and 10 dollars for the the service. 10 when he knows he can get away with it. 5 when it's someone coming in on a beach cruiser.

The stupid part is that even a seasoned bike mechanic is only getting 15$ an hour tops, and the owner is charging 50$ for a working hour.
In the auto industry mechanics get a bigger cut.

>>915376
I'm not him but shop service is too expensive in general. What I hate is bike mechanics think they have a valuable skill set that is worth just as much as an electrician or a plumber (who goes to your house) and they think they're smarter than engineers, because they always, without exception, talk about how engineers are stupid and they showed that engineer wrong.

$12 would be reasonable, albeit poorly spent, if they did it on the spot, that's $12 for convenience. That's an insane rate if they're backed up and they want you to drop it off and pick it up later.

Bike tune ups should be a lot cheaper than they are.

>>915378
I actually don't think service is expensive enough. Shops expect to turn a profit on their nonexistent, overpriced, shitty inventory when I could just order on amazon. But if I don't want to buy a shop stand and a couple of thousand bucks worth of tools so I can repack all my bearings and do wheelbuilding and recabling and shit like that, I think it's fully justifiable for a shop to charge money.

What peeves me is that they charge "what the market will bear", e.g. >>915377 instead of the places with experienced mechanics charging a premium, like they should.

Which means if I go to my LBS 2 blocks from where I live, I pay almost the same for labor from some high school kid who has no idea what he's doing and I have to redo the job myself anyway, as I would from the real bike shop near my office that gets it done right and then some.

I also don't get places that let people just walk in and pick up a tool. It's not a damm hippie co-op, it's a for-profit business.

>>915373
What the fuck, nigga, seriously? a Tube is like 3 bucks and changing it should be fucking free, thats fucking service, nigga!

>>915381
>I actually don't think service is expensive enough.
That's because you're a shitty LBS shill.

>But if I don't want to buy a shop stand and a couple of thousand bucks worth of tools so I can repack all my bearings and do wheelbuilding and recabling and shit like that
And this over inflated sense of worth that extends to tools, including yourself, is also a typical LBS attitude.

>>915385
A shitty tube with a finicky fragile poorly designed valve is 3 bucks. If I went through three tubes a month maybe I'd think about the extra cost of brand name tubes, but as it is I'm fine spending the extra 5 bucks on super-duper premium blingbling AOCG Monopole Premier Cru tubes once or twice a year, and I don't even patch, sue me.
>>915386
>he's willing to pay for services rendered
>must be a shill!
You belong in a /ck/ tipping thread, where I'd be the waiter shill. Here's a tip, I should of stayed in school and got a real job, right?

>>915389
Continental, Schwalbe, Michelin.. Pick one, pay 3-5 Bucks, and ride it for half a year. Rest it up to your and your choice of shitty tyres

In South Philadelphia a Mexican bike shop that sells stolen shit to illegal immigrants will do the job for $5 or less

And you can rest assured that money will be spent buying stolen deep Vs from crackheads.

God bless them

>>915390
Maybe you're getting counterfeit goods m8

$8 is the going rate for a conti 700x25-32 in a brick and mortar shop. Not even amazon sells them for $5.

Also man I ride rubino pros at 28c and schwalbe marathon supremes in 35c and I get one flat a year tops doing eight miles a day on shit streets

All about that 120 tpi senpai

>>915389
It's pretty obvious you're a LBS shill if you think the tools are worth thousands of dollars. There's a small handful of tools that cost a few hundred dollars, and most bike shops don't have them, and they're not used on a regular basis.

>>915390
There's no helping the shill.

Forte shit tubes in 120 tpi love it desu

>>915378
Ok bro care to explain why economically, rather than just "wahh i dont want to pay"

>>915394
>It's pretty obvious you're a LBS shill if you think the tools are worth thousands of dollars.
You're telling me that in order to replicate the setup of a well equipped bike shop I can do that for $300?

No

And I'm not buying your shitty $50 nashbar toolkit with a wrench made out of sheet metal

>>915392
a continental tube in germany is like 3 euro

>>915399
Yeah well. Germans get cheap bike stuff. Americans get cheap frankenfoods. It all balances out in the end.

>>915397
Because changing a tube is easy. Everyone who is not completely incompetent can do it.

>>915398
>You're telling me that in order to replicate the setup of a well equipped bike shop I can do that for $300?
Do you plan on servicing 30 bikes a day?

>And I'm not buying your shitty $50 nashbar toolkit with a wrench made out of sheet metal
Park tools are also made from sheet metal. So are a lot of others.

>>915402
>park tools
i still don't get the circlejerking about them, honestly, whats so great about their tools? All i need is either Knippex, Wera/Wiha, NWS, Würth, Shimano.. Wait, almost everything i own Toolwise is german, and there is seriously no need for some Taiwanese bullshit relabeled by Americans

>>915405
He said tools at a bike shop. The typical American bike shop has park tools. I'm guessing it's like Snap-on, it's easy logistics to supply inventory and the workplace. I think their truing stand is a piece of shit, and I'd rather just true in frame.

>>915402
Lack of volume is the reason not to do it myself, not the reason to buy a collection of collectable chinese tools.

There is no reason to buy a gorillion shitty tools that will strip out the notches in my bottom bracket or what have you, just to avoid paying a professional a couple of times a year. None whatsoever.

The only tools the average cyclist needs are a floor pump, tire levers, a few torx/hex wrenches, a chain cleaner, some grease, some chain lube, and rags. Period. If you're needing other stuff more frequently you're either abusing your gear, you accidentally bought a BSO and are now finding out why that's a bad idea, or you a delusional DIY cultist.

>>915407
Yes, we know your paycheck relies on rich freds who get paid $200 an hour and would rather pay you $60 an hour than work on bikes themselves.

But yes, I'm sure in your mind, everyone just buys a $2,000 Trek and brings it in for service twice a year, and replaces every component you say needs replacing.

>>915408
I thought the angsty fixie crowd hated specialized more than trek, did something change?

And yes, I'd rather not turn my 1 bedroom apartment into a disaster area just to fulfill some MGTOW meme I read about on /diy/. I have a few other hobbies besides riding my bike 150 miles a week, and I'm spread pretty thin as it is.

It is ok though, you can go ahead and work that extra grease under your fingernails even when your bike is working fine, if it makes you feel like more of a man.

>>915407
>professional
>high school drop out
Good one

>>915410
A person taking money in exchange for services is, by definition, a professional at that service. This includes bike mechanics, doctors, dish washers, and prostitutes.

Is English not your first language?

>>915409
>I thought the angsty fixie crowd
Fixie faggots don't work on their bikes because there's nothing for them to work on.

>MGTOW meme
Nice strawmanning there.

>
And yes, I'd rather not turn my 1 bedroom apartment into a disaster area just to fulfill some MGTOW meme I read about on /diy/. I have a few other hobbies besides riding my bike 150 miles a week, and I'm spread pretty thin as it is.
So you're poor and you want to be even poorer, got it.

>It is ok though, you can go ahead and work that extra grease under your fingernails even when your bike is working fine, if it makes you feel like more of a man.
It's pretty obvious you work at a bike shop and trying to false flag. Your arguments make zero sense from the perspective you are pretending to come from.

>>915413
>Fixie faggots don't work on their bikes because there's nothing for them to work on.
So what do you call it when you take your bike apart and bang tools on it? Masturbation?
>strawmanning
I thought that was the point of anonymous shitposting.
>So you're poor
I make low six figures, that doesn't go very far where I live
>It's pretty obvious you work at a bike shop
Not only that but I am also a waiter because I tip 20%. With all the time I spend pretending to work, I can get extra income shilling for Trek
>Your arguments make zero sense
Because you're hellbent on evangelizing for the cult of DIY and you can't even for a minute fathom that a twice-yearly (at most) service requirement isn't any sort of justification for what you're proposing

>>915340
I'm guessing the owner of your bike shop is white. Owner of mine is colored and he's literally never done anything like that to me l mao. Just stay away from whites.

>>915415
Nice strawmanning anonymous. All anon said was having a shop do it was expensive, and you started to claim that doing it yourself was expensive and the only reason why you would do it yourself is strawmen, and then you vacillate on exactly what your argument is, because your argument is that you should take it to a "pro" and tip him 20%.

It takes less time to fix most things than it does to get the bike to the shop, and either waiting for them to do it, or making another round trip to pick it up. Labor costs more than the tools, and obviously parts cost about twice as much when you buy retail. But all you can come up with is strawman argument.

>>915419
>most things
Sure, hence why I suggest having a bare minimum set of tools. Especially for something that's going to stop you from riding, like having air in the tires.

However, there are a few things that are unreasonably complicated, are either predictable non-catastrophic maintenance, or happen because of something like a crash that you can never really predict and won't happen that much anyway. Like bearing replacement, for example, or rebuilding a wheel. Shit like that, just leave it to the shop, unless your ego simply can't handle it.

>>915422
>However, there are a few things that are unreasonably complicated, are either predictable non-catastrophic maintenance, or happen because of something like a crash that you can never really predict and won't happen that much anyway. Like bearing replacement, for example, or rebuilding a wheel. Shit like that, just leave it to the shop, unless your ego simply can't handle it.
And when did anyone say you had to do absolutely everything yourself? This came from a point about $20 being expensive for changing a tube.

Also bearing replacement is really not complicated, and bike shops tend to over tighten bearings because they're more concerned about them being loose than doing a good job.

Good job stawmanning, moving the goalposts and backpedaling.

>>915438
>Also bearing replacement is really not complicated
Literally every 3 words he says "don't do X or you might fuck up your hub"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhuAQqPXAQ4
If I fuck up my hub, then I have to get into wheelbuilding

So how about no, I'll just take my bike to the shop.

>>915381
Thousands of dollars in tools, nigga what?

I've got literally every tool I could ever hope or need to work on any bicycle every for a few hundred. Throw in a decent stand and a work bench and let's call it an even $500 for everything you could ever need. That's if you don't already own half the tools and a work bench which any man worth his salt should already have.

>>915465
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhuAQqPXAQ4
>cartridge bearings in wheels
>CARTRIDGE BEARINGS IN WHEELS
Really grasping at straws aren't we? Because those are the only bearings on a bike and every bike has them.

No, you literally started because you thought $20 was a fair price for a tube replacement. All of this is just you moving the goal posts.

>>915416
the shop I work at is Guatemalan.
I'm one of the first anons that said I work at a shop, we charge almost too much and can't order anything on time.

>>915472
Not really following. I can see you're mad but at what? Are you implying that cartridge bearings are some exotic technology?

Also you should review the term "moving the goalposts", I don't think you understand what it means.

>>915469
>everyone needs at least $500 worth of tools or he's not a man
https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/

>>915373
>How often do people get flats these days anyway? Like once a year at best?


no before liners and slime tubes I would get one every few weeks... now every 2-3 years

>>915477
And how often do cartridge bearings need replacing? Every other kind of bearing is piss easy to replace.

>Also you should review the term "moving the goalposts", I don't think you understand what it means.
>if you dont pay $20 to change a tube you are a stupid mgtow diy cultist person

>>915391
I probably know you

>fixing at home
>have tools
>parts online cheap
>fix
>ride

>fixing at shop
>have to drive bike there
>have to get a quote
>shop labor is 60/hr
>parts are more than full retail
>have to drive back home
>be without bike
>wait for a few days
>call them
>they say theyll get to it soon
>wait some more days
>call them again
>they say you can come by
>drive there
>try to get someones attention
>they replaced parts you didnt ask them to replace
>they still havent fixed your thing
>they make you wait 30 minutes while they fix it
>they charge you full retail for the parts you didnt ask for
>load up bike
>you find a dent that wasnt there before
>have to fill up on gas on the way home

Tell me why anyone would suffer the LBS for anything remotely routine, or simple enough to do themselves?

>>915481
Cartridge headset bearings are easy to replace. Cartridge bottom brackets also are easy to replace if you have the tool.

>>915385
>nigga nigga

lmao I bet you frequent /fa/ and listen to odd future too faggot

>>915481
Oh, you're still hung up on the $20 tube change? Look, everyone has their threshold of what they're willing to do. If I'm near a shop when I get a flat, I'm happy to pay $20. If I'm not, I'll change it myself. What I'm saying is that when you subtract the cost of a tube, $12 for labor isn't unreasonable.

>And how often do cartridge bearings need replacing?

So like, are you agreeing with me now or what? It seems like you just want to rage aimlessly.

>>915486
is there really anything that isnt routine on a bike? I mean its simple as fuck and there are tutorials online for anything you might not be familiar with... there is a reason bike mechanics top out at $15/hr.

>>915493
Chasing and facing BB shells, and maybe replacing cartridge bearings, which was that one anon's extreme example. Some of the pressfit stuff, like headset cups and press fit BBs, although arguably it's not hard to make a press.

>>915491
>Oh, you're still hung up on the $20 tube change?
>what is moving the goal posts

>>915478
Your reading comprehension: it's lacking.

I said that the total cost of tools for a bike mechanic would run you around $500 and that you should probably already own half of those.

If you're gonna try and argue try not to sound like a retard.

>>915495
Someone brought up a tube change. The argument turned into why everyone needs to have more bike tools than the Park Tool factory itself or they're not a Real Manly Self-Reliant Macho Man RRrrrrawwr! I listed what I thought were appropriate tools, which unfortunately I guess (since it triggered the fuck out of you) involved discussing tools other than tire levers and floor pumps. And the argument spiraled from there.

That isn't "moving the goalposts", that's just an average thread on 4chan.

Incidentally Real Men don't need tools, they do everything with their fists and their teeth. Rrrawr! And same goes for you >>915496

>>915494
yeah I guess, although I have done those redneck style with a screw driver and a hammer. I would be scared of building a whee just because I am sure I would screw it up.

>>915498
> The argument turned into why everyone needs to have more bike tools than the Park Tool factory itself or they're not a Real Manly Self-Reliant Macho Man RRrrrrawwr!
That is literally a strawman you brought up

>>915370
Literally the 4th reply, and the first reply talking about the cost of labor.
>>915373
Probably (You), because you keep bringing up service per year.
>>915381
Possibly (You), the first mention of tools, and claiming you need thousands of dollars worth of them. Clearly not a DIY.
>>915398
Also probably (You) bringing up you need a complete shop setup, the first mention of anyone implying this.
>>915407
>>915409
And (You) going full retard about MGTOW

The only one bringing up those retarded arguments were either you or other LBS shills. Literally strawmanning.

>>915499
Buy you can buy factory wheels. building wheels is an option, but hardly normal or the default option. You could build a custom frame too, but it's not something anyone ever has to do.

>>915504
Ok. I still have no idea what you're mad about but it's fine. You are right and I was wrong. I'm not going to rehash this whole thread because something I said triggered your elaborate persecution fantasies of LBS shills.

>>915504
>Buy you can buy factory wheels. building wheels is an option
its all about how seriously someone takes it.. and yeah I wouldnt be building wheels these days. I had some 48 spoke wheels built for me when I was really into bmx, my bike shop sponsor built them for me and I got them for really cheap then I got a nice set of racing wheels for my other bike but they were factory... now I just ride entry level road bikes and only do it to stay in shape and see the country side.

>>915506
You literally strawmanned the entire thing just because some anons, rightfully so, detest LBSs, which triggered your fantasies of DIY fixie MGTOW cults who won thousands of dollars worth of park tools.

>>915509
But anon, I'm the one who started the thread...

>>915521
That's just proves how paranoid and schizophrenic you are.

>>915524
I'm not the one having a stroke over LBS shills here

Take a chill pill

>>915526
You're the one having a stroke over manly cultists going their own DIY, amassing hordes of park tools, sto storm their LBS while riding upon fixies and raining death and destruction unto the poor underpaid bike mechanic.

>>915402
>everyone who isnt retarded can do it
Then why pay a shop in the first place?

>>915408
How is 2000 dollars even possibly a point at which you start to get asshurt about the cost of a bike.
In australian dollars anyway, 2k wont get you shit all in the way of a nice road/mountain bike, and assuming youre american and thats american dollars, the equivalent here of 2.5k isnt really much better.

If you seriously think a 2k bike is some ridiculous statement of personal luxury then you need to spend less time posting here and more time going and earning money, or put cycling as a higher financial and general priority in your life.

Get a fucking grip

Sincerely,
Min wage earner

>>915399

>A product is cheaper before it gets shipped across an ocean.

>>915402

>Everyone who is not completely incompetent

This is a smaller subset of people than you would think.

>>915484

Who dat

>>915526

lol.

Seriously, as a slightly retarded person, I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars over the years building stupid bikes, getting bored, taking them apart. Buying stupid tools for stupid parts.

I would have saved money if I took my bikes to the shop and telling them what I wanted. They would have said "NO. Don't buy another shitty old frame from Craigslist and give yourself another aneurism"

But I'm in too deep now. $400 worth of tools. $3000+ worth of bike parts in the basement dungeon.

Save yourself

>>915370
Car dealerships work like this too. Sure, sales get bonuses because of that ridiculous overhead added into the price, but mechanics average $65/hr.

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>>915617
Here on 4chan our opinions are stronger than our purchasing power, hence why paying for services rendered is worse than the holohoax (which didn't happen but it should of).

I should have remembered this when I made the thread but I guess I got confused by anonymous (but, in hindsight, clearly spurious) claims in other threads where anons pretended to own bikes that aren't complete dogshit.

I just wanted to complain about having to wait for packages and instead I'm an emasculated LBS shill SJW who will stop at nothing short of the total annihilation of all MGTOW

>>915617
lmao at pansies not living without heat, a/c or hot water to pay their bike fees. So fucking pussy, they'll never know what its like to be a real man

>>915645
>I just wanted to complain about having to wait for packages
>make a thread for it

Please stop.

>>915653
Bump

>>915629
>I'm retarded and I can't do A
>Don't do A

Your logic is brilliant.

>>915375
On a race it took me 8 minutes to change a flat. It took so long only because i forgot to take tire levers and had to do it with a small bone i found on the ground. But that was on an mtb.

>>915669

I told you I was retarded. Please be nice to me

>>915616
That's the point. You shouldn't.

>>915617
$2,000 is a completely arbitrary amount. Also, here in Burgerland, you can get a Nashbar CR5 for less than $1500, and have $500 left over for upgrade or wheels or what have you. You can also get a full carbon Ridley, Motobecane or Fuji with at least Ultegra gears for $1500-1600.

>>915625
Which is why shops can charge $20 for a tube replacement. That doesn't mean everyone who can figure out how to change a tube is a MGTOW DIY cultists with thousands of dollars of tools.

>>915629
You could have just bought thousands of dollars of carbon, which would get you approximately one carbon bike.

>>915645
Maybe you shouldn't have brought up MGTOW then. That's on you.

>>915696
LBS doesn't have bones on hand. 8 of those minutes are buying KFC and eating it so they have a bone.

>>915697
But you were only pretending to be retarded.

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>>915340
Bike shops have two main problems that I don't know how to solve:
1--they have the problem that people want to walk in and see a lot of interesting inventory, but carrying that costs money. So bike shops need to push what they have on hand, so they can get new inventory in.
2--even if you are willing to order something, they tend to want to get it out of their supplier catalogs, since they get a better price from that. So you can pick the parts price you want to pay, but you can't get real picky about the brands.

Also,,,, I know a big reason that they push you to choose stuff from their catalogs is because they make sure it will work together before ordering the part(s). A lot of customers who go and buy parts online and then bring them to the shop for assembly, get stuff that won't work together.

You youngsters may not realize: the internet has had a HUGE impact on retail shopping for small items.
In many countries you can now easily shop the entire world for the best price on anything you want that is small enough to be cheaply shipped.

>>915727
You've spent this entire thread ranting about LBS shills, and you have the gall to whine about getting called names? Get a hold of yourself anon.

>>915740
I think it's simple.

Create a special order catalog/website, with low margins (Similar to Niagara etc.), and allow item pick-ups in-store for anything not stocked as a regular item (or a similar substitute). There are lots of brick and mortal shops running these low margin arbitrage sites using their position as a retailer with access to wholesaling. It's a model that some shops do already.

Why do this instead of just ordering it online? Support LBS, don't have to pay for/wait for shipping, access to a(n overpriced) mechanic, spurring service sales, etc.

I mean, you you want to special order, and it will cost more than ordering it online having it shipped to your door instead of the store, why bother using the store as a middle man? There are plenty of other stores willing to be middleman for lower margins.

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Gonna swerve in here to say:

the main problem in this thread is the unwillingness to admit that there continues to be a Severely Uneducated Consumer Base when it comes to, say, Bikes in General. this goes from Wut Bike is Gud? to How Fix? to Why Does my XYZ hurt when I ride?

Thats not going to change any time soon. This is why the IBD model is necessary. The problem is that retailers have a really hard time billing consumers for education (which is why i suspect there's frustration about Dumb Freds in the IBD's). Good (read: intelligent) retailers will attach product to these solutions in order to improve the consumer's User Experience. Poor ones try to shove product down Poor Fred's Throat (which is why I suspect there are so many Disgruntled Freds).

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>>915372
>markup on bikes is generally only 60%
fuck that would be INCREDIBLE margin for the dealer,

most bikes sell at somewhere between 32 and 38 points margin.

next time you go into a shop thinking they're shaking you down for that 1200 dollar bike, realize that bike sales don't even come close to covering overhead

>>915784
Honestly bike shops need to go.

They need direct-to-consumer models, which provide much better value, or the Euro car dealer model, where they have a show room and demo bikes, but they order your bike, and you wait for delivery.

The benefits of this high overhead model just aren't worth it for the cost. If I can buy a Canyon for the wholesale price of another brand, why wouldn't I just buy the Canyon?

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>>915394
>
taps, dies, thread files, bench grinder, hand grinder, good drills, compressors, air chucks, frame alignment gauges, spoke cutters/threaders, and all this before you get to stands, benches, truing stands and wrenches.

your ignorance is almost commendable

>>915787
You haven't read the thread have you?

>>915787

shops need to rethink the way the sell the bike, and instead emphasize service (mechanical, education, consultation).

problem is, most consumers want to see product first hand before ordering.

also, this
>Honestly bike shops need to go.
opinion. Can you imagine how many novice (read: most) riders would be SOL if they couldn't get tubes changed, advice on fit, routine maintenance? Sounds like a good way to kill bike ridership in the US, where it struggles to maintain a foothold anyway. You sound like you work for the auto Lobby.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your LBS once. Try a different one

>>915793
> Can you imagine how many novice (read: most) riders would be SOL if they couldn't get tubes changed, advice on fit, routine maintenance?
Shops that sell bikes, not service "shops" that sell consumables and provide labor.

>>915789
>most shops don't have those.
But I'm sure your fantasy LBS has every one of those.

>>915807
Maybe if you didn't have a shitty local LBS shop, you wouldn't have issues like in the OP post.

>>915812
Why even bother genericising LBS at that point if the majority of them are shit and there's only a few good ones? If you actually worked at a good LBS, you would be proud of trying to differentiate yourself from the normal shitty bike shop.

>>915815
Are there first world bike shops that don't have that stuff?

>>915833
>implying your shop has all of those
Unless you're a shop like Yellow Jersey, you don't.

>>915834
Queensland? Alaska?

>>915836
It's an old school high end specialty bike shop in WI. They've been around for 40 years, they've also bought up old inventories of several even older bike shops that have gone out of business, which is one of the reasons they've accumulated so much old stuff and tools, and they do stuff like braze on modifications and some steel frame repairs. It's not really your typical bike shop. No modern bike shop would invest in threading tools or alignment tables any whatnot. Shops with those tools usually have them because they're old shops, and not every old shop has them.

>>915807
I work in a 2nd tier shop in a 2nd tier city and we got all that

>>915840
Sure you do buddy.

>>915839
At least two places near me that I know of offhand do steel frame repair. I realize that in bumfuck nowhere it's unusual to even have a store that sells bikes other than walmart, but I thought it was assumed that when people talk about "bike shops" they're talking about normal places in areas where people ride bikes.

>>915845
Its the bumfuck nowhere shops that are more likely to do frame repair. They're older, and they actually have room for that kind of repair. Urban bike shops, where people actually live, don't normally do that shit. And even older shops stop doing steel frame repairs, simply because the guy doing the repairs retires, and there's no reason to train someone to do steel frame repairs in this day and age.

>>915848
>Its the bumfuck nowhere shops that are more likely to do frame repair
What's the point when high end used bikes go for pennies on craigslist?
>They're older,
It's clear you're confusing "urban" with "suburban subdivision"
>and they actually have room for that kind of repair.
There's a place that "actually has room" to slaughter live animals in my neighborhood, I'm pretty sure a bike shop can find a few extra square feet to operate welding equipment.
>there's no reason to train someone to do steel frame repairs in this day and age
True, they can just hire an immigrant from a third world country, where repairing shit is a way of life. Which is what the shops around here do.

>people living in these magical places with bike shops that stock everything and have every tool
>dont mention what city youre in
Where do you live

>>915851
>There's a place that "actually has room" to slaughter live animals in my neighborhood
>no zoning laws
Confirmed for living in bumfuck nowhere

I use a lbs when I don't know what is wrong and can't figure it out, I don't know how to fix what is wrong and I can't figure out, I want something done perfectly, and wheel building I like to do as much as I can by myself

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>>915853
>he's never been to a city larger than a few million people
This must be very embarrassing for you

>>915856
That's what you meant. I thought you meant a full slaughterhouse operation, not killing a few live chickens on order. We have a couple of those in Chinatown. You think killing chickens takes up a lot of space when you have customers every day is somehow miraculous, as opposed to keeping a much larger room with tools that aren't a $10 butcher's cleaver that gets used a few times a month are comparable?

>>915858
>I was just pretending to be retarded
Many businesses need space to operate and store stuff. It seems miraculous to you because you've never seen what people do when there isn't limitless land to sprawl into, but people have been doing it since humans built the first cities.

Just accept that you were wrong. It's ok, you made some assumptions based on the small bubble that represents your world.

>>915863
It's pretty clear you've never welded anything if you think a few square feet is enough, if you want to talk about living in bubbles.

>>915855
My experience is bike shops tend to be the worst weelbuilders ad truers, unless they actually specialize in wheel builds. Usually they just spot true until things stop rubbing, leaving the spoke tension all sorts of fucked up.

>>915863
>>915856
>>915851
>>915845
What shop in NYC does frame repair? I know a couple shops either said they wouldn't touch it, or they redirected me to some frame builders.

>>915865
You're right, I haven't. But if a construction worker can weld a pipe 6 inches from his face inside a manhole in the middle of the street while standing on a ladder, which happens a lot, I'm pretty sure a mexican can weld just fine inside the confines of your average comfy 8x10 back room.

Maybe you just suck at welding?

>weld repair bicycles
What the actual fuck are you making ghetto choppers or something.

>>915867
Chelsea bikes and Bike Cult

>>915872
>2 specialty shops in NYC means every bike shop should have this shit
You just proved anon's point. Shops of that caliber are rare and the exception, not the norm.

>>915872
I thought Chelsea was a full on frame builder attached to a shop, not just repairs?

>>915874
I dunno man, the only person I know outside the city who is really into biking is my uncle who lives in the PNW and he literally just went to the neighborhood guy and had him build a frame.

Besides, biking itself, in the heartland, is the exception and not the norm.

>>915876
>PNW
Has an extremely high density of frame builders, because Portland.

>>915877
So basically, the baseline standard we should all be discussing here is shops in East Jesusville Wyoming that assemble a few boxed bikes every season, sell them to the unsuspecting public, and can usually change tubes to order without fucking something up.

I can see why you think it's outrageous to imagine ever paying a bike shop for labor, but that's like complaining about the liquor stores in saudi arabia.

>>915880
>So basically, the baseline standard we should all be discussing here is shops in East Jesusville Wyoming that assemble a few boxed bikes every season, sell them to the unsuspecting public, and can usually change tubes to order without fucking something up.
The average bike shop in Manhattan would suffice, no a couple of cherry picked shops outs of dozens in NYC. Emphasis on average, the normal ones.

>>915880
Oregon has the most frame builders of any state, unless you count Trek and Waterford in Wisconsin because of their sheer size and relatively high output. But Oregon has the most small and independently run frame builders in the country.

>>915883
The thing is in places where people ride, there are enough of those good places that people have the luxury to "cherry pick". If they aren't discerning enough to cherry pick, they're not going to be savvy enough to do their own work in the first place.

So I guess then, what you're saying is if there are just no good options, then there are no good options and the best choice will always be to do it yourself, no matter what.

But doesn't that go without saying?

>>915887
>moving the goal posts
No, what he's saying is that paying the average bike shop $20 for a tube change is for incompetents, and a competent person could do most things themselves. You have to go to extreme cases of repair, and cherrypicked shops, for problems most people will never have, in order to find something unreasonable to do yourself.

>>915890
>moving the goal posts
Once again, "someone brought up an issue I hadn't considered" doesn't mean "moving the goalposts"

Do try to keep up :)

>>915891
Lets start here

>>915394
>>915789
>>915807
>>915815
>>915833
>>915834

It's pretty clear you're moving the goal posts. He said from the beginning, not most shops, that was his argument. You finding a few shops doesn't disprove what he said. It in fact, supports it. And ultimately, the thousands of dollars worth of tools argument falls short, because people who work on their own bikes don't completely swear off of using bike shop labor, they just don't use it for stuff they can do themselves. You don't need thousands of dollars of tools to do virtually all the maintenance on a bicycle, only special repairs.

So yes, you moved the goal posts.

>>915896
>your shop
>your shop
>unless your shop
By definition, "my shop" means the one I choose to take my bike to, not the one you randomly decided represents what you think I, a random person on the internet, ought to go to in order to satisfy some weird paranoid delusion about the LBS conspiracy.

Again, revisit "moving the goalposts" because it isn't what you think it means.

>>915898
>Are there first world bike shops that don't have that stuff?
The answer to your question is yes, the majority of them.

Also, you continue to purposefully misquote things, because you know an actual direct quote will make your argument weaker. You find a minor fault, and misquote to make it look like a major fault.

>unless your shop
Never said by anyone except you

>>915899
>Never said by anyone except you
So then, you're confusing multiple other people with me, and finding logical fallacies based on an argument that only exists inside your head.

Good job with that.

>>915901
>"unless your shop"
>ctrl+f
>3 matches
>>915898 (You)
>>915899 (Me)
>>This post (Also me)

>>915902
Fine, "unless you're a shop".

Your argument now amounts to finding typos and screaming about shills. Maybe it's time you gave it a rest?

>>915904
Again with the impartial quotes
>unless you're a shop
>like Yellow Jersey
Which was simply given as an example, because they have a slightly greater presence online for that kind of shop.

>Your argument now amounts to finding typos and screaming about shills. Maybe it's time you gave it a rest?
You mean like your argument is moving the goalposts and claiming people who do their own tune ups are idiot DIY MGTOWs and you need thousands of dollars worth of tools, because people are going to do frame repairs, and that shops that do frame repairs are somehow representative (or not depending on what fits your argument best) of an average LBS?

>>915375
>liberal city

God please just fucking go back to /pol/

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>>915392
>Not even amazon sells them for $5.
I usually get mine for $5 and some change.
Sometimes the price even dips lower than that.
And it ships directly to my own house for free in just two days.

Equally decent tubes go for $3.50 at Walmart. On sale I've gotten them for $1.75 before.

If it weren't such an inconvenience, I'd buy them all there.
It's a goddamn hoop-shaped balloon, there's very little room for quality issues.
Don't blame the tube for the rider's own mistakes.

>>915942
One time I cot some really shitty "cutter" brand tubes from Competitive Cyclist because they were like a dollar each. 3 out of 4 DoA. But those were exceptionally shitty. I haven't had tube problems from anyone else.

>>915422
>implying replacing bearings is difficult


are you serious?

>>915972
He later specified he meant specifically, and only, cartridge bearings pressed into hubs, while going apeshit when anon had the same response as you.

>>915942
>$6 is $5
You're really good at math. Are you Asian?

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>>915843
I mean, is it so fucking hard to imagine that some people here actually have shop jobs?

>>915973
>going apeshit
Says the guy who posts in capslock and replays the entire thread in his head while looking for typos and logical fallacies

Why are you so emotionally invested in whether people are ok with paying for services rendered?

>>916026
>Says the guy who posts in capslock and replays the entire thread in his head while looking for typos and logical fallacies
Says the guy that kept moving the goalposts, strawmanning, and accusing people of not using a shop because they must be MGTOWs of the cult of DIY.

>Why are you so emotionally invested in whether people are ok with paying for services rendered?
Why are you?

>>916012
That's not what was said. But it's obvious that some people do work at a shop because of the amount of shilling.

>>916050
>
>amount of shilling
actually, it mostly sucks to work in a shop. so no, but without the LBS there is no cycling in the US

>>916053
>actually, it mostly sucks to work in a shop. so no, but without the LBS there is no cycling in the US
Actually, it sucks to work in a shop, and bike shop workers tend to have huge egos and convince themselves they're important, so yes.

>>916054
Did a bike shop worker steal your girlfriend or what? There is no reasonable explanation for why you're so butthurt over such a specific group.

>>916055
They shitpost on /n/ a lot.

>>916055
>tfw you work at a bike shop and a MGTOW walks into the shop with thousands of dollars worth of park tools, looks around the shop, and leaves without buying anything because he was going to order the stuff online anyways and is a card carrying member of the cult of DIY, and your girlfriend gets wet and has sex with him right then and there then casts her aside after impregnating her in front of you

>>916054
>generalisation from nowhere

Alright bro

>>915340
Forgot the 50% markup.

>>916152
>implying that's unusual for anything except electronics
Pick your complaints wisely, or else you'll just sound like you whine about everything

>get car doored
>take bike to get checked out at lbs
>dudebro mechanic/owner quickly straightens hangar and trues rear wheel, good check over
>calls repairs at $15
>fakes an invoice for $80 repairs/labour for me to send to lady who doored me

love my lbs

>>916152
usually its a sliding scale for mark up, with big tickets items only getting 10-20% (or just enough to cover overhead) and lesser items getting 50-75% mark up. Most informed customers have researched the bike they are going to buy, but all those cheaper items are impulse buys and that can make your bottom line look very nice.

>>916159
>doored
>rear wheel

>>916088
>this thread
Most bike shop employees can not get it into their head they're doing simple retail, and mechanics don't realize they're doing relatively unskilled labor.

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>>916183

Maybe he was stopped and a car passed next to him with the door open

>>916186
Cagers gotta take out every cyclist they see.

>>916159
>Insurance fraud: the story.

And you trust those people?

>>916195
cyclists can do no wrong just remember that you filthy cager

>>915340
>well we don't have that in the store but we can have it for you in 10-15 days

I don't understand why stores do this. I can order myself. I came to your store so I don't have to wait you fucks. This does not just apply to bike shops.

>>916260
Depends on the item in question as to how acceptable it is.
If its a common, CURRENT GENERATION item, shop is shit.
If its non current groupset generation part or some expensive or rare item, no shit a shop isnt gonna carry inventory of it.

>>916261
Do shops even carry full current groupsets and components? I've usually only seen a small handful of components at the counter, maybe some shifters and derailers, since I'm guessing those are what break the most. And the time I asked about swapping 165mm cranks, they straight up told me to order it online because they don't sell them.

>>915993
Did you miss the part of my post where I said
>sometimes the price even dips lower

Pic related was just to show that they aren't $8 on Amazon even at the highest.

They usually cost half a dollar less than $5.99 depending on when you buy. Like most products, prices are constantly shifting around.

>>915946
Walmart exclusively stocks Bell. Ordinarily you'd think this would be a red flag, but they actually work beautifully.

I think I even wreck the Conti tubes more often now that I think about it.

>>916267
PlanetX sells Vitts for $2.05 plus post. If you buy 6, that's $24, for $4 each for a name brand. They also have their store brand ones for $1.35, or $20 for 6.

Personally, my favorite tubes are Forte Lights (I can hear the LBS employees hissing), I stock up when they go on deep sale, for around $4 each.

http://www.planet-x-usa.com/i/q/FSOOHTB375YRA/on-one-headtube-badge-yorkshire-rose-for-steel-frame

Also I just found this, which is pretty awesome

>>916267
Bell is a good brand.

>>916271
I think it depends on what you get really.

Their tubes are great, but I've seen some serious garbage with their label plastered all over it.
Shitty locks, shitty pumps, tires with shitty beading.

>>916273
It's just low end. There's some actual garbage stuff, like does not work right type stuff, not just low cost and correspondingly low quality.

>>916061
>DIY
>Card carrying
pick one, and realize that the DIY tend to be model train aficionados and conspiracy theorists

>>916261
Older shops run by grumpy old dudes tend have some really esoteric NOS shit laying around, tho.

>>916266
Mine usually has anything you might ask for from current-gen Shimano 105 and up, and I think some SRAM, but if they don't have it at the counter, they have it in their local warehouse. For Campy they only stock cassettes, brake pads, cables, and chains. They used to be a big Campy shop, but their relationship with Campy USA went down the toilet for some reason.

>>916271
Bell tubes are made by Kenda or CST, like almost everyone else's tubes.

>>916332
Do you know what card carrying means comrade? Or are you really butthurt about people doing their own tune ups and adjustments?

>>916353
>local warehouse
That just mean's special order 99% of the time. For example, Niagra calls it their "warehouse", but they're really just ordering from J&B and QBP. They just have enough volume to make orders frequently instead of every couple of weeks. Turn around time really depends on how often the shop makes orders from wholesales.

Let's put it this way, even if they can get it in a few days, they don't actually have it in stock for you to buy, it's essentially available special order. If it's a small chain, they might have a dedicated warehouse, but you still have to special order, they're not going to drive to the warehouse and back while you wait.

>They used to be a big Campy shop, but their relationship with Campy USA went down the toilet for some reason.
Campy USA is shit, it has 5 people that think Campy should be low volume, exclusive and expensive, and set the wholesale price at the EU retail price. I really wouldn't sell Campy in the USA either.

>>916355
Why don't you explain it for the rest of us. Not the guy you replied to

>>916393
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/card%E2%80%93carrying

>>916394
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/card%E2%80%93carrying
>Origin of card–carrying
>from the assumption that such a person carries an identification card
So in other words, the other guy is right and you are a retard
>muh changing meaning
You sound like the kind of idiot who literally says "literally" when you mean "figuratively"

>>916364
It's a local warehouse. They (Western Bike Works / Bike Tires Direct) do the lion's share of their business online. Turn around time is same or next day depending on when you get there.

>Campy USA is shit, it has 5 people that think Campy should be low volume, exclusive and expensive, and set the wholesale price at the EU retail price.
Bleh. I've heard that their warranty service is a nightmare to deal with, too. I don't understand why Valentino doesn't fly over with a couple of large lads and knock some heads in.

>>916424
You sound like a retard.

>>916425
QBP has multiple warehouses so they can get stuff to shops in one business day, although a bike shop that is mostly a website isn't really the norm.

>>916424
>origin
>not definition

>>916426
Yeah, we're really lucky to have a few local shops that have sizable online presences. Universal Cycles is another. One cool thing that we're seeing a little more of is bike shops that are more like pubs. Velo Cult moved here and tried to be a normal-ish shop with a small bar, but then they flipped things and turned into a big pub that happens to also be a shop.

We're really spoiled in this dumb town.

>>916425
fwiw I was on the phone w someone from campy usa talking shimano compatibility with a fulcrum wheel the other day and he was like, super helpful

>>916438
Man Velo Cult is the tightest shit.
Before I even started cycling I thought it was the coolest venue ever, but now that I bike to work it's just gotten that much cooler.

You should all feel ashamed that your LBS isn't that cool. And I feel ashamed that it's wasted on this garbage city.

Although honestly my allegiance is tied more to River City Bicycles than anything else, so I try and shop there when I can.
It's crazy. Usually there's a lack of good LBSes, not an overabundance.

I hate when Portlandians act live they live in a real city, and every city is like, or should be like, Portland.

I've never purchased a bicycle from a shop. I can go on Craigslist and find the same bike if not better for much less. I'll buy some little things from them every now and then, but other than that, I just go in to look at the fancy things I don't intend to buy.

>>916641
You still mad about being called MGTOW, MGTOW?

>>916641
nah, every city should be like Kyoto. Portland is a mess.

>>916641
Portlandfag from earlier. This is the biggest shithole in the country hands down, especially for a cyclist.

If it weren't also the location of the only med school in a 500 mile radius I'd be gone in a heartbeat, Yeah there's Seattle too, but fuck that.

The bike shops here are unfairly cool though. I wish we could just dig them up and plant them somewhere good.
It's the only part of this meme city worth saving.

>>916746
>This is the biggest shithole in the country hands down, especially for a cyclist.
What? Cycling is one of the things that makes Portland a meme city.

>>916756
Just because it's full of hipsters and crackheads who ride their fixies backwards on the sidewalk at night doesn't make it a good cycling city.

I fear for my life here.
It's like the Gaza strip of cyclist-cager warfare, and innocent commuters like me are just caught in the crossfire.

>>916761
I'm guessing you only took up cycling after living in Portland. It's one of only two cities to be rated Platinum in terms of bicycle friendliness in America. The other city being Davis, which is a college town, and the former cycling capital of America before hipsters made Portland the cycling capital of America.

>>916756
I don't think it's that bad, but I've lived in shitholes like Vegas and Miami. But I don't think it should be a "platinum" city. Aside from the bombed-out streets, a lot of it boils down to lack of law enforcement. Traffic cops don't exist, so drivers feel free to zip around tight residential streets at 30mph+. Crimes like bike theft and minor property theft go unpunished and uninvestigated.

We have tons of open-air bike chopshops that operate under the auspices of being homeless camps, so the police can't do anything about it without making the bleeding heart homeless activist turds cry. The homeless have become a protected class in this city, and the police can't do shit even if they go around assaulting people. So you have to be really careful about where and how you lock your shit up, and you don't ride in certain areas past dusk or at all. Unfortunately, one of those areas is a 30 mile long MUP that used to be great for cycling, but has gone to shit because the homeless took it over. One of the things they like doing is scattering glass to cause flats and then assaulting and robbing people who stop to fix.

There's also a weird situation with the state DOT, which has a lot of power here. Recently one of our major bike lanes was removed because there were two high-profile accidents where that lane crosses a state highway which is now a busy urban arterial, both the fault of the driver. So, to "protect cyclists," they're discouraging cycling use there, even though the intersection is right by a major high school.

>>916762
Boulder, Madison, and Fort Collins are also platinum. I seriously don't know why we retain that status. Do you live here?

>>916762
>>916769
>rated Platinum
Those ratings don't mean much since they're based on self-reported data. My city got a silver rating in 2014 despite being pretty terrible for cycling in most respects because the bicycle coordinator in the transport department and the relevant citizen's committee he heads went out of their way to pad the city's statistics on the application form as much as they could without technically lying. For instance, they told the LAB that we have protected bike lanes - which is technically 'true,' except that our 'protected bike lane' (there's only one) is really better described as an on-street connection between two trails that's cordoned off with reflective posts. And it's literally 10 yards long.

I was in on the meeting early in 2015 where the head of the transport dept. came to the citizen's committee meeting and made it clear in no uncertain terms that she and the mayor were thoroughly displeased and that "gold" shenanigans on the 2016 application to the LAB would not be tolerated.

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>>915340
My local time shop is the worst thing ever. The salesman there was rude as hell, but I wanted a bike so I bought it.

It had no oil in my fork and the brakes grinded for like a year, until I fixed it myself.

And I was there 3 times for them to fix it, and they literally couldn't or didn't do it.

Fuck them

>>916780

My LBS owner gave me a bicycle frame for free yesterday. So stoked, gonna turn it into my touring bike.

>>916781
Yeah, my LBS gives me stuff for free all the time, and they fix my bike for free. They're awesome like that. In fact I've never paid them for a single thing. I wonder how they make a profit.

>>916784

It's not a new frame, he's had it in long term storage for over 20 years. I'd mentioned not having any luck finding old Japanese touring bikes on craigslist to re-build a few weeks back.

It's a Bianchi Grizzly rigid MTB in Celeste green and there's a fair amount of patina on it. When I'm done cleaning and upgrading it I'll probably post it on a PYBT.

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>>916777
Yeah, the bike lanes thing is bullshit. We have one miles long that nobody uses because it was designed to be lethal to cyclists. It's very narrow for the most part, and ceases to exist for a short stretch where you go under a bridge, and there's no way to get around. And the drivers on that street go anywhere from 50-70.

The most recent fatality on that street was a guy who had just moved to town, started bike commuting, and was going off of our official cycling map that shows it as a great and safe street to ride on. He was smooshed by a stoned guy near that bridge.

>>916785
That's awesome.

>>915385
Do you not know how a business works? The labor charge is to cover overhead and to pay the employees

>>915373
$5 tube $10 labor. $8 if wheel off the bike.

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>>916785
Nice! I also own what appears to be an '88 Grizzly; I had to pay for mine of course, but aside from the pretty steep angles and the chainstay-mounted rear U brake (it ain't that bad honestly.. still eww though) it's a great deal of fun. You'll love yours.

I respect bike shops that have a good website with accurate inventory a lot more than ones without

>>916978
what's with the brakes on that ? i'm assuming cantis on the front originally but what went on the back ?

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>>917013

not the owner but probably U-brakes

I think rollercam brakes will work with those canti posts too

I don't really have a LBS

>Evans Cycles, chain shops, where I got my cheap hybrid from (never buying a bike from them again, bike was fucked when it arrived had to be taken in to get sorted, my own fault for ordering online though), mostly overpriced but has some good deals
>A Trek shop that I've never been to, looks like it'll be expensive
>Some shitty shop that seems to just sell BSOs
>A small, what could be considered proper LBS but ridiculously expensive and in a town that is nearby but hard to cycle to because there are main roads in every direction

Having said that there are two I need to have a look at which I only found out about recently. One is a tiny fucking thing, looks a bit shit and has GIANT stickers all over it, the other one looks like a proper bike shop and I know they're organising a 50/100 mile sportive in May which I'm considering doing. Don't have a road bike though just a cheap hybrid as I said, though that isn't a problem. I've done a 32 mile ride on it before.

/endblogpost

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>>916978
>>917015

I would be so happy just to wash n' wax those bikes let alone ride/own it

I lucky as shit in that my local shop works/sells older 80's to 90's bikes and does stellar work. I'd rather go there then online because he's been helpful as fuck to me over the years. When I have the funds I either want to have him build me up a custom wheel set, have him find me a nice "klunker" frame or buy the super mint MB-1 which I sadly think may be too small for me. But that MB-1 is so fucking mint.

I have also been to Golden Saddle Cyclery in LA and that place is nice, there are a few other boutique clothing/custom bag places in LA I want to check out too

That said I try to do all the repair/maintenance work I can unless I don't have the tools or skills, ie: wheels
Which I want to do when I have more funds.

Fucking love wrenching be it bikes, autos, chainsaws. I eventually want to start buying vintage/older bikes and fix them up, not necessarily to sell them but because I get pained when I see nice bikes abused/neglected, plus its fun.

>YFW grease monkey as fuck

>>917025
Sometimes looks can be deceiving for small businesses. I've been to restaurants that look the part only to be heavily disappointed. On the flip side I've been to places that seem non discript or hole in the wall only to blow your mind.

One thing though, the more deliberately hipster something seems to be, the more guaranteed it is to be so and also annoyingly tryhard.

>>917137
>it sells BSOs
>but theyre really good BSOs!

>>917138
http://www.cycleking.co.uk/index.php

Look at their bikes, all they sell is shit. Why do they even exist?

>>917138
???

>>916184
Most bike shop employees are racers funding their racing and are sick of unknowledgeable shitters spouting unfounded bullshit and occasionally abusing them when they are given the actual facts. The other thing which differentiates most bike shops from "regular" retail is people thinking its like a car dealership and trying to haggle on every fucking thing.
Would you go into 7/11, buy a pie and a drink then harrass the poor indian bloke behind the counter for "his best price" because "the other guy always gives me a discount"? No you wouldnt, because its fucking rude and doesnt make sense. Most shops set prices just enough to cover overhead, and i have seen a lot of shops go broke from discounting themselves into debt just to try and meet the demands of self entitled cunts.
As for mechanics, being able to tune and do basic fixes on a bike, but being a very good mechanic requires a bit of skill and a lot of experience. Sorry if you go to shit bike shops mate

>>917025
>giant stickers all over it
>it is a tiny shop
Topkek

Also
>being enticed by a shop because it sells giant
Shiggy diggy

>>917146
>Most bike shop employees are racers funding their racing and are sick of unknowledgeable shitters spouting unfounded bullshit and occasionally abusing them when they are given the actual facts.
Racers are often some of the most unknowledgable people when it comes to technical information about bicycles.

>As for mechanics, being able to tune and do basic fixes on a bike, but being a very good mechanic requires a bit of skill and a lot of experience.
No it doesn't.

This is exactly what people mean when they say LBS employees act like entitled pricks.

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>>917148
>enticed

I said it looks a bit shit you twat. Are you so bored you start arguments with people about penny farthings on a Greek Platsmashing Board?

This is the shop btw, fucking tiny.

>>916795
>Do you not know how a business works?
Most people here live rent-free with their parents, so they assume every business works kind of like their own home.

>>917161
Here's how a business works. Develop a business plan.

>You go work a real job earn a measly $15 an hour
>I charge you $15 for something that you could do yourself in 5 minutes
>I need this because I need to eat and pay the rent so I deserve your money
>You are a stupid retard idiot if you do it yourself

>>917163
You seem really angry about the existence of businesses. Do you also have something against private property?

>>917164
The point is develop a business model where you actually provide a service worth paying for. You don't have a right to business, income and customers just because you set up shop. If your business model is shit, your business is shit. Instead, LBS employees like to fearmonger about how tuning up a bike is so hard and difficult, and you should support your LBS just because.

>>917165
So let's see, bike shops around the world operate successfully while you shitpost on /n/ whining that you only make $15 an hour, I wonder which one knows more about business plans.

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Serious question: What are cycling shops/repairmen/mechanics like in The Netherlands? Somehow I imagine that increasing the overall amount of people cycling would force the mechanics to compete, improve their customer service and prices. Maybe I'm wrong though IDK.

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>>917181
https://vimeo.com/133432406

I like this guy and how he lives deeply entrenched in a community which respects him. Seems like a pretty good life.

>>917170
15 was used because its how much mechanics claim to make

>>915340
I'm still pissed at my LBS for doing a repair that I didn't ask them to, even when their website states that they will contact you before any repairs are done.

Nigga, I know that the cassette was undersized for the number of gears on the bike. You''re the one who sold the wheel to me like that, and I told you I was fine with not shifting when I dropped the bike off for a tune up. Goddamn, you rich assholes.

>>915391
that's what you get for going to Via Bicycle.

>>917149
Umm racers that spend their entire work week immersed in cycling as well as having experience riding and using different bikes and parts arent you mong

>>915375
>12$ for labor
>40/hr
Mechanics don't divide hours so they just bill you for the whole hour even if it takes them 5 minutes, I feel like it's the same principle here

I've tried several local bike shops and they've:

* installed problem solvers travel agents incorrectly
* told me a vanilla nine speed shimano RD was incompatible with eight speed shifter and cassette
* wrapped bar tape like a noob
* changes $15 for a two minute headset cup press job

I'm done with them. 100% internet action unless it's an emergency

>>917264
Racers are good cyclists. That doesn't make them good mechanics, or actually understand any of the technical intricacies of bikes.

>>917264
I know a lot of collegiate racers and it's a real mixed bag, >>917271 is at least half right. You'd be surprised how mechanically clueless some are.

>>917025
Bike n kite?

>my shop has free service for flats and 4 bike cleans/year if you just buy from them

>>917325
>i paid an extra $500 buying my bike from a shop and all i got was some flat changes and water from a pressure washer in my bearings

>we'll call you when it's in.
means
>you call us when you think it might be in.
>it will have arrived and been put on the bike several days ago.

>>917348
>we'll call you when it's in.
means
>you call us when you think it might be in.
>it will have arrived and been put on the bike several days ago but we didnt call you
or
>we forgot to order it but we're going to tell you that there's a shipping delay while we add it to our next order

>>917271
>bikes have technical intricacies
>machanics should be sub minimum wage because understanding bikes is so easy anyone can do it

DOUBLE THINK
O
U
B
L
E

T
H
I
N
K

>>917508
Anyone can do it. Racers have big enough egos that many of them bother not to. They're also missing brain cells from crashing on their heads and thinking their magic safety hat will save them.

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>>917271
>Racers are good cyclists.

>>917239
You realize employee wages are only a small part of the operating cost of a business?

What are you even on about? Are you that same MGTO DIY cultist who gets ass blasted at anyone who doesn't own their own personal DT Swiss truing stand and Cyclus spoke cutter and calls them a shill?

>>917574
>that projecting
>being this assblasted

Why wouldn't you want to become a smarter and more skilled person by doing your own bike maintenance and repairs? It's easy. Specialisation of labour has led to a world of dumb fucks who can't do anything besides their one job.

>>917594
Believe me if I was a millionaire and didn't also work for a living, I would at least make an attempt at doing my own everything. Something gets fucked up, no biggie. Buy a single-use tool, no biggie.

But I've already been down that road with other hobbies. What really happens is you amass a huge collection of tools, spare parts, broken stuff, and you spend an insane amount of time trying to solve some problem that your ego can't handle letting go of. Besides the expense, what are you going to do with all that extra junk? Answer: rent a storage locker.

So yeah, no. 18 year olds for whom the bike thing is their first ever taste of DIY cultism, they can learn their lesson now. I've learned my lesson, hence: tire levers, some basic wrenches, pump, grease, lube, chain cleaner, and some other small frequent-use items. Everything else goes to the EEEEVILLL shill bike shop that dares pay their employees $15 an hour which is the entire cost of running the whole business, apparently.

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>>917677
>Everything else goes to the EEEEVILLL shill bike shop that dares pay their employees $15 an hour which is the entire cost of running the whole business, apparently.

this thread

>>917677
>this is what lbs shills actually believe

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>>917677
take a look at pic related. this happend on a mountain trail after a crash. I didn't have a chain breaker or replacement links so I had to improvise.

I don't mind paying the LBS to fix this, but if I don't know how to fix and have tools for it I'll literally be stranded in wild. And since now I have the tools and parts and knowledge what's the point of going to LBS?

>>917526
>>917531
>Fatshits detected

>>917736
Everything you do is a calculated risk. What are the odds of X happening, what's the consequence, what's the cost ($ and everything else) if I take a certain step to prepare, vs the cost of responding if I don't prepare.

Obviously, the cost of not preparing varies depending if you're riding in the city vs 200 miles from nowhere. Some rides, I double check my spare tube and make sure I have a couple of cartridges. Other rides, no fucks are given.

I'd like to understand what your circumstances are that your life is in danger unless your panniers contain 8 sizes of collets for your bearing puller, a TIG welder, a spoke cutter and tensiometer, 2 extra tires, a hydraulic bleed kit with 8 oz extra fluid, and a 4th hand tool.

Not trolling, I'm genuinely curious.

>>917781
>that projecting
>Not trolling, I'm genuinely curious.

>>917782
What do you think projecting means? Genuinely curious.

>>917784
It means you are literally insane and self oblivious. Are you Nikki posting as anon?

>>917787
Not everyone who disagrees with you is one person, MGTOW-kun

Reminder that nikki subscribed to a very specific set of beliefs and used statistically improbable phrases on a regular basis. If your education system hadn't failed you, his posts would not be challenging for you to pick out.

>>917788
>Not everyone who disagrees with you is one person, MGTOW-kun
>Reminder that nikki subscribed to a very specific set of beliefs
Yes, he/you was very oblivious.

>>917789
It seems you're floundering for a /n/-appropriate meme insult. Try fred or MAML, MGTOW-kun ^_^ also lurkmoar

>>917793
>MAML
It's MAMIL

>MGTOW-kun
Forcing a meme in a single thread does not make it a meme.

>>917800
You're the only one calling your own name a meme, MGTOW-kun

Flattering yourself is legal last I checked

>>917801
>You're the only one calling your own name a meme, MGTOW-kun
>It seems you're floundering for a /n/-appropriate meme insult. Try fred or MAML, MGTOW-kun
Yep, Nikki detected. You have the same tendency towards being completely oblivious, and self-coined memetics which you repeat ad nausea. Just because you stopped using your old vocabulary doesn't mean the underlying behavior isn't still the same.

>>917810
Nope. I'm the guy who made the word cloud of nikki's posts, the one you saved and reposted over and over because you're unable to come up with your own insults (hence why you keep resorting to straw manning, first calling me an LBS shill, now nikki)

But if it makes you happier, I'll trip with his name now. You've confused multiple other people with me in this thread, multiple times now. So I promise unless I'm on my phone, I'll use the trip. I am now nikki.

>>917811
It's amazing that this thread contains more utterances of MGTOW than every other time MGTOW has been said in /n/, and you think it's a /n/-meme insult.

>>917820
Again, you're the only one floundering for memes here. Fred is a meme. MAML is a meme. MGTOW is something that really apparently hit close to home, in your case. Hence why it is a good insult for me to use against you.

But if you want to call me nikko it is your freedom to do so. It is my name, after all, MGTOW-kun ^_^

>>917825
MAML is not a meme. The term is MAMIL, and no one but you has ever used MAML on /n/ before except in this thread. gb2reddit etc.

>>917832
But I am already on reddit in another tab. I can post on two websites at once, are you handicapped?

>>917811
>nikki made his own word cloud

>>917811
you didnt make that word cloud, I did. Fuck you nikki

I work at a bike shop and a lot of times I tell people to just go to amazon for certain things, namely shimano components. being a shimano dealer is just shit for shops. we can't match online dealers' prices and we won't even try.

a lot of times on other products, if I do have to order something, the owner tells me to give it to them way below MSRP. usually halfway between cost and retail. I'm not entirely sure that's okay with his distributors but we end up doing it anyway quite a bit. the only real thing that our prices are firm on are bikes, and that's really because it's more or less impossible for someone to go somewhere else to buy a bike, at least where I live. don't like the price? don't like my attitude? have fun driving 2 hours to the next nearest dealer.

a big part of running a bike shop is jewing people where you can (such as service, unless you absolutely can not do something yourself, paying for maintenance is almost always a shit deal) and giving people good deals where you can (it's a small shop so I have a lot of discretion) to maintain a good relationship with your customers.

yes, there will always be people who go to amazon and bikesdirect, but unlike what some autists here would try to tell you, there will always be a need for bike shops so long as there is a demand for bicycles and bicycle accessories, especially within the US. you don't have to worship your LBS, you don't even have to go, but plenty of people will.

I also work at a fairly high-end road-oriented LBS that primarily sells to freds, dentists and triathletes (usually all three at the same time), so when I have a retarded customer I generally just tell them to go to the family-oriented bike shop. but when I get sick of being a mechanic (the pay sucks I just do it for fun), I'm going to take a look into the gap for a wiggle-like online cycling superstore for the continental US, because there's a demand for one and nashbar is too shit to fill it.

>>917855
>a lot of times on other products, if I do have to order something, the owner tells me to give it to them way below MSRP. usually halfway between cost and retail. I'm not entirely sure that's okay with his distributors but we end up doing it anyway quite a bit.
You should be doing this for multiple reasons. One is many of the online bike shops who order from the same wholesalers have very low margins when they sell online. You gain a sale you otherwise wouldn't have, because full MSRP for a special order really turns people away to just order it online. There's minimal overhead. You don't need to have showroom space, there's no risk of it not selling, and there's no investment of business capital, it's just straight up arbitrage.

>yes, there will always be people who go to amazon and bikesdirect, but unlike what some autists here would try to tell you, there will always be a need for bike shops so long as there is a demand for bicycles and bicycle accessories, especially within the US.
That's not what's actually being said. What's being said is what you said before that
>a big part of running a bike shop is jewing people where you can (such as service, unless you absolutely can not do something yourself, paying for maintenance is almost always a shit deal)

>I'm going to take a look into the gap for a wiggle-like online cycling superstore for the continental US, because there's a demand for one and nashbar is too shit to fill it.
You can't. Wiggle has huge discounts because of their turnover. Europe also has stronger competition laws which prevent price setting like you described earlier
>being a shimano dealer is just shit for shops. we can't match online dealers' prices and we won't even try.
And the Campy importer is just absolute shit.

There's a reason there are multiple cheap UK sources like Wiggle, Merlin, Ribble and PBK, but almost no US ones except outlet stores.

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>>917835

>>917135
Your post makes me feel a little cozy inside, anon.
I love wrenching on bikes. It's honestly one of my favorite things to do, and I wish I could afford to build a new bike every month, really.
I wish I had a local bike shop that did more with old school bikes, I've got a fetish for old bikes I think. My only chances at old bikes are a small and changing selection at the local co-op, or maybe a lucky find on Craigslist.

>>917868
why are you trying to argue with me? I'm just offering my own experience working in a bike shop, it's not necessarily indicative of the industry as a whole but you're trying to poke holes in arguments that I wasn't even making

>>917885
Is your ego that easily bruised?

>>917887
you're a fucking retard
you literally have no idea what you're talking about and I can only assume you get some autistic satisfaction from being hostile and contentious on the internet
please put on a trip

>>917888
>someone responded to my monologue
>i just wanted to voice my opinion not actually have anyone respond
>waaaah hes arguing with me
>im going to insult him and maybe that will make him go away

>>917135
Get in with your local co-op!!! If they're cool, you'll be able to hopefully turn your passion for wrenching into a way of helping people out! I volunteer at a local co-op in a university town, and sometimes I see people I've helped riding their bikes that they worked on themselves and it makes me feel all nice and fuzzy inside. Plus, the environment (well, at least for me) is super conducive for introducing yourself to a lot of older/different tech, and is super cool/fun from like a bicycle history/engineering point of view; it's always fun every time I go in to help.

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OP you want kil bike ridership in US of ISIS? Then kil LBS? Wat do when tire go flat and i newbie? Out in garbage go bike! Best Win for auto industry!,,,,,

If regular-fred, want to go ride but derailleur hangar bent,, then have to order derailleur hanger alignment tool on Amazon. Must wait 5+ days to ride!! But mah training. Too bad no lbs down the road to do it in 15 min! Oh well!

>I don't like bike shops and I don't understand how the market sets prices!
>Well I work in a bike shop and I don't understand how the market sets prices either!
>Fuck you!
>No, fuck you!
t. everyone in this thread

>>917283
What?

>>915340
Nope, never experienced this.
You must have been really unlucky OP.

>>918312

the perils of an econ degree

see through the horse shit

but can't get a job

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>>917975
terrible baconrider impression, my friend.

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Anyone else notice how fucked up the guy in OP's pic is?

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>>918439
I saw pic related
>PROTIP: do not image search "syndrome"

>>918439
>making fun of burn victims

>>918430
>>917975
looks the same to me
very cancerous and devoid of content

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>>918430
>>919327
you want Real Content, friend?,,,,, then get up off the toilet where you scroll /n/ && out into the world where Real Content lives. XO

>>915469
>That's if you don't already own half the tools and a work bench which any man worth his salt should already have.

tf am i supposed to fit a work bench into my apartment

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>>919608
>tf am i supposed to fit a work bench into my apartment
live in your mom's half-finished basement, is how

>>919609
>fixed gear
>redditskins

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>>919620
the customer is always right.

>>919628
Why are they all dressed the same?

>>917896
Becycle?

>>919628
Is that KC for Katie Compton?
How did you take that photo? deets, plz

>>919687
Yeah, she spoke to a bunch of women at the lbs where I work

>>919839
'Spoke!' Ha, oh you.

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>>919842
it was a freewheeling monologue

>>917249
Nah, I know the place he is talking about. I live way fucking south. Via is a bit of a stretch to call south philly, right at south street. Philly could use more bike shops in between dogshit like those and Fred palaces. If there are more than a few, idk where they are. I end up going to performance on Columbus for stuff I need fast, they at least have stock of most things and will give me the odd nuts and bolts for free. Bell had great service the one time I needed some frame work.

>>917594
>Specialisation of labour has led to a world of dumb fucks who can't do anything besides their one job

Specialisation of labour has literally led to the development of civilization. Without it we'd all be subsistence farmers. You're a special kind of stupid, you know that?

>>917150
but that store looks fine. could be a great store. and i don't see why it selling giant bikes is a bad thing. giant has good bikes for reasonable prices.

you guys are all retarded trolls i swear

>>915385
Stupid bitch.

LBS is charging me $250 to assemble my chinese carbon full sus- prob another $50 to bleed my seatpost

>>915370
Lmao im this guy and the last post i made
You guys need to chill.

>>923458
>chinese carbon full sus

do you want to die anon

>>923458
pay those 300 bucks, and once your chinese crabbon shreds itself to pieces you can blame it on the LBS

>>923458
>bleed my seatpost
Jesus, I thought roadies had annoying obsessions

>>923502
i really hope you're aware of the fact that he was referring to a dropper seatpost.

>>923504
I know what a dropper seatpost is

I think they, the bikes they go on, and the people who have those bikes are cancer

Especially you

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>>915340
>drives to shop to pickup something he saw a picture of online
>doesn't confirm that the product is in stock or even sold at that location
>shops fault

>>915378

>Bike tune ups should be a lot cheaper than they are
>tune up

Ah, so you're the customer who walks to my service desk and asks for muh spring tuneup! And when I ask if there is anything in particular that is going on with the bike I get the blank stare.

>>915807
I worked for a bike shop chain. Had every single one of those and more.

>>915834
>>915839
Why do flyovers always assume everyone on the internet is in their immediate vicinity and knows all the local podunk businesses? Do they ever escape their little provincial bubble of ignorance?

>>915973
>cartridge bearing replacements are difficult

dude, you can remove them with a hammer and punch and reinstall them with your QR skewer and a washer if needed. Ball bearing replacement is actually more difficult of a task.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

>>916159

>I can't afford a 5$ spoke wrench or even straighten my bars.

>>917268
>I'm done with them

And they couldn't be happier.

>>923706
That's a shitty way to install cartridge bearings and good luck finding a washer just the right size.

I have no idea how in your mind using a hammer and a punch is easier than replacing cup and cone bearings.

>>923711
This DESU, the only clients a LBS want is rich freds that pay $20 for a tube change.

>>917268
>changes $15 for a two minute headset cup press job
that's pretty fucking reasonable

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Do the work yourself, buy the tools, learn the skills or pay the labor costs at the shop. Time is money etc.

Order something at LBS from QBP, J&B, BTI etc or undercut them by buying from some online retailer.

Choose whatever you think is right. I think brick and mortar stores are awesome and shop at them when I can. I think being able to talk to people with some experience is worth the extra 5 bucks you pay for that cassette.

>>923715

all you have to do is remove or reinstall one piece, that's it. No cleaning the cone, cleaning the race, packing new grease and bearings, getting the cone set perfectly, not too tight, not too loose.

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>>923502
roadies like shit poking them in the ass. The chinese frame is in the shop and piics will be up on wednesday pending i can pay the LBS bill.

>>923757
but i am getting $50/hr rate instead of $80 like some of you are now. I hope the mechanic het at least half.

>>917677

$15 an hour is an INSANELY good wage for a bike mechanic btw. I started at $11 several years ago with zero experience which I thought was quite good for zero experience.

>>923760
what do they have the ppl with no experience do? I hope one is not reaming my headtube or bleeding shit.

>>923760
I'm in Canada, but even when our dollar wasn't shite, $15/hr was a starting wage for a mechanic

>>923762
builds, flat repairs, brake and shifting adjustments
basically 75% of shop labor

>>915391
How the fuck can those places be so cheap? I sometimes eat at places where there are only Mexicans, no English. Those places are cheap as fuck and the portions are huge. But I get stared at like a Trump deportation squad

so I got a LBS question.
I'm gonna buy a pine mountain 1 for aorund 900 €
I have to get it from a shop since marin dosent sell directly.
should I ask if they throw something in for me ?
like helmet or something ?
is that reasonable or rude ?

I never bought something of that value from a bike shop before.

>>925738

Go in and ask them about it then say something like you're budget is 650, is there any space to move on the price. They'll probably drop it closer to it.