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ITT: popular music albums that are actually...
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music

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ITT: popular music albums that are actually art music in disguise
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>>61895362
>art music
stop
>>
>>
>>61895362
It's all just music, hop off your pretentious high horse.
>>
>>61895362
this album isn't popular, outside of 4chan
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>>61895436
It has nothing to do with the album's popularity. Faust is rock, therefore it fits the term.

Beethoven's symphonies are well known, but they're not popular music.
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>>61895380
>>61895405
>>61895436
Idiots.
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>>61895495
what makes you think that rock and pop are the same thing? have you been reading a lot of italian amateur music reviews lately, bud? If anything, its either that they are 2 different umbrella genres, or that you being literal proves nothing, because classical music is pretty fucking popular, all over the world.
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>>61895362
>>61895510
>>61895495
Cucks/samefags
>>
How's Faust art music?
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>>61895495
What's next "jazz" is another category?

I tip to you
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>popular music
>Faust
>>
thats not rly how it works, is it?
i guess if sth was first released in the form of notation, and then distributed like a normal rock/pop album then you could say it like that, but maybe not
just say "its rly gud and ambitious" or sth ffs, high/low art is stupid
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>>61895647
all music is art
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>>61895676
>high/low art
The classical/popular/traditional music trichotomy has nothing to do with high/low art.

>>61895683
Idiot.
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>>61895702
art
noun
1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

Just because you do not want to accept Young Thug working in the same field as Bach doesn't mean you have to be a bitch about it

Nice samefagging btw
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>>61895622
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music
Pop =/= popular

>>61895666
No, it's in popular music.
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>>61895760
We're talking about art music, not music that is art, you fucking moron.
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>>61895791
it says popular in the link so i do not think that anon should click it
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ITT: People who have no idea about the music supergenres and how they work. Or they are pretending since this is 4chan after all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music

Anyway:

>>61895362
I am hoping we are just looking at the musical styling/songwriting here as it's impossible for it to be art music otherwise. That being said, the album comes close, but misses in a pretty big way since everything's put into this structure of it having to be popular music so compared to the art music stuff it's influenced from it feels watered down if compared to.

Pic related does a much better job because at its craziest it can hang with like the crazy moments of The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady with having like 7-8 completely different things happening at once. It also has a large group of instruments working together, giving one the closest they'll find to a masterful arrangement in popular music that can compare somewhat to art music without having to go all Brian Wilson on it. The approach to vocals are more rock-like, but at the same also more weirdly operatic (the backing vocals are all approaching operatic in a really weird way.) Everyone on pic is a virtuoso on their respective instrument akin to classical/jazz musicians and this isn't necessarily represented through wanking but more through the variety of techniques we see used by each instrument throughout. Also the drums section is less like one guy using a drum set but more like a guy on drumset AND a few others on a variety of percussion like if it was a classical music piece. Of course songwriting is like how prog/krautrock go at it which is art music inspired with a variety of keychanges and journeys in various directions musically.
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>>61895702
im well aware of that. thats exactly what i thought op tried to sorta imply actually, so i wanted to kinda get at that with the first part of my post
>>
the art/pop divide is not useful and we should just reject the silly terms
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>>61895830
/thread

Enjoy your music as it is, guys. It doesn't matter how it was written.
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>>61895830
>>61895870
Kinda dumb, guys. So genres to differentiate the type of music in the world shouldn't exist? I like music of all different kinds, but to say all this stuff I listen to is the same would be preposterous.
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>>61896032
they aren't genres moron
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>>61896082
Yes they are. They are supergenres.
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>>61896099
>yes they are [thing]
>they are [different thing]
good job
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>>61896163
Are you retarded?
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>>61895816
>The approach to vocals are more rock-like, but at the same also more weirdly operatic (the backing vocals are all approaching operatic in a really weird way.)

Weirdly enough Renate says she wanted to be a more soulful vocalist like Hendrix. It's definitely more opera than it is soul.

"'The problem I had in the beginning was self confidence," she said. "It was difficult to be the only woman involved inside this macho, musical mafia. Phallus Dei had no words for me to sing. I only did these oohs and aahs for the vocals. I wanted to be a soul singer, in the same way that Hendrix was a soul singer.'"
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>>61896032

We already differentiate between different kinds of music. For example:

>>61895362
>>61895816

Faust and Amon Duul II are ostensibly "krautrock," but Duul II are more prog rock than Faust which has elements of noise and lo-fi shit. Calling either one popular music or art music isn't very specific or useful, wouldn't you say?
>>
my gf got me Faust IV for christmas

shes alright
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>>61896358
Pretty fucking nice mate. It's a shame Faust IV is worse than Faust.
>>
>>61896163
Pretending to act like you didn't get it to make another attack on me still makes you look stupid.


>>61896253
This does make me wonder, because Knaut's vocals had an atmosphere that was psychedelic and an often jazzy approach towards them, too since the rest of the band would approach things like jazz themselves. But I do wonder if its maybe the reason why her backing parts just sound so unique.
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>>61896406
it's not an "attack" lol get over it

you're just wrong
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>>61896320
Again, art/popular/traditional are supergenres. Supergenres don't completely replace genres, but compliment them. If you know your way around math: supergenres are supersets of genres which are subsets of supergenres.
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>>61896495
Okay. Keep pretending supergenres don't exist for some weird reason.
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>>61896516

True enough, true enough.
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>>61896537
> reading comprehension
>>
>>61896516
but they're almost entirely useless terms
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>>61896664
They exist and are used by those that care about them. Rather than looking at actual composition supergenres really look at where the music's coming from and how its viewed. It's like how scientists have the whole

Domain
Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

thing. Depending on the kind of science you research into you probably don't even have to worry about knowing particular names above the species set on that classification, but that doesn't mean that they exist, and other scientists may get a use from them. You get what I mean?

>>61896663
>admitting I am right
>still just trying to find shit to shittalk about
You haven't contributed jack shit so far and only make yourself look stupid. Even if you aren't serious and are trolling, ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
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>>61896807
I'd like to imagine you're being ironic but I have to remind myself stupid people do really exist
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>>61895362
>art music
>ignoring that music is in fact art

pretentious, impressionable tween detected
>>
Reminder that Faust is Led Zeppelin for hipsters
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>>61897061

wut
>>
Art, more like FART, amiright? XD
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>this whole thread
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>>61897020

Popular music and art music are two real categories used in the real world whether you like it or not what is so difficult to understand.
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So little Faust discussion in this thread, not cool guys, not cool at all

Their debut is probably my all-time favorite album and it's a shame that nothing afterwards comes even close. It makes sense, however, seeing as how their S/T was a product of great creative freedom, as well as loads of fun. I'm sure the last thing they were thinking about during the "writing process" is that they're supposed to make an album with all those jams. The Faust Tapes has some interesting potential, but is ultimately too incoherent for my enjoyment (at least if we're comparing it to the debut). IV and So Far are mostly mediocre, some good moments here and there though
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>>61897203
That's fine, but music is a de facto artform, and to arbitrarily delineate between "art" and "pop" music takes a degree of pretense (and implies that the music made a more pronounced impression on the poster than on most)
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>>61897274

Oh I agree then.

>>61897263

And I agree with you as well. So Far was such a disappointing endeavour after the s/t I mean goddamn. Faust IV is better than So Far but again doesn't come near the first. It's just a unique anomaly that, as you say, came out of creative freedom. Even among krautrock music Faust stands out like a kind of black sheep.
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>>61897274
if you think people rightfully designating terms to music is pretentious you are an idiot. there is a negative connotation to being popular and positive connotation to art. that doesnt mean one is objectively better than the other. i personally value exploring ideas and making conceptual, thoughtful work is better than making consumer products but the vast majority seems to enjoy consumer products.
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>>61897406
If your ramble aims to argue that there's a metric or defensible standard for deciding if a song is "art" or "pop", I'm open to hearing your explanation; please be specific
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>>61897478
Art music.

—is an umbrella term that refers to musical traditions, implying advanced structural and theoretical considerations[7] and a written musical tradition.[8] The notion of art music is a frequent and well-defined musicological distinction, e.g., referred to by musicologist Philip Tagg as one of an "axiomatic triangle consisting of 'folk', 'art' and 'popular' musics."[9] He explains that each of these three is distinguishable from the others according to certain criteria.[9] The main tradition in the Western world is usually called classical music. In this regard, it is frequently used as a contrasting term to popular music and traditional or folk music.[8][10][11]

Popular music
The term popular music belongs to a number of musical genres "having wide appeal"[1][2][3] and typically distributed to large audiences through the music industry. These forms and styles can be enjoyed and performed by people with little or no musical training.[1] It stands in contrast to both art music[4][5][6] and traditional music. Art music was historically disseminated through the performances of written music, although since the beginning of the recording industry, it is also disseminated through recordings. Traditional music forms such as early blues songs or hymns were passed orally, or to smaller, local audiences.[4][5][6]
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>>61897541
nice copy-paste job pal, but this Wikipedia entry doesn't exactly give you an identifiable standard to make the distinction by; how do you define "having wide appeal", or what level of distribution to audiences "through the music industry" does it take to be considered pop music? None of this is conductive to an objective labeling system.

You tried though, thanks for playing
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>>61897653
/thread

goodnight plebs
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>>61897653
you realize any serious music listener or crititc uses these terms right? they arent just made up out of nowhere by me to upset you.

popular music is music sold throught albums. rock bands, pop artists, etc. sell albums play gigs, etc...

art music is music made exploring idea and questioning form. imo there has become a popular music industry within art music (especially post-cage). art music is primarily past along through scores (although in the modern age certain artist who perform what is considered free improvization are often lumped in)

then there is folk music. music past along through tradition and embeded within a culture. not made for commercial gain or bought and sold.

these categories work very well although there is some overlap or room for debate. some things like hindustani classical, religious musics, and certain national chamber musics follow traditions and scores. the guru-disciple relationship is somewhere between composer-performer and village elder participating in a song and dance ritual with the village children. a way of passing along music that is both traditional and personal but also very structured. then there is certain "art music" of today which is made into albums and sold like a consumer good.
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