Amnesiac is to Heroes as Kid A is to Low

>>61839804
i see the kid a -> low comparison but not the amnesiac one, sorry

>>61839804
Nah.

>>61839804
>And Amnesiac and Heroes are both better
what an unnecessary and contrarian opinion to have

>>61839819
Darker, more schizophrenic and raw, stronger Kraturock influence. Think it works.

>>61839830
Plenty of people think Heroes is Bowie's best, likewise with Amnesiac and Radiohead.

>>61839858
But Heroes is less schizophrenic AND less krautrock than Low.

You made this just to show off two unusual opinions at once, that's all.

>>61839969
Name me one song from Low that is more krautrocky than Heroes.

>>61840008
Weeping Wall.
How is Heroes Krautrocky at all?

Amnesiac is the one album I never understood the contrarian love for on here. It's objectively mediocre as all fuck and inferior to 3 other Radiohead albums, and yet it has become an album whose only fans are people trying to get babby's first /mu/ indie points. There is nothing about it that is better than Kid A, OKC, or In Rainbows, and none of those albums are great either

>>61840040
Heroes is built around a Krautrock beat for a start. Weeping Wall is more like a Steve Reich piece than anything. Blackout and V-2 Schneider are strongly Krautrock influenced too.

>>61840057
Er interesting opinion but I genuinely like it more.

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>Heroes better than Low

That's just wrong, OP

>>61840040
Bowie actually wrote Weeping Wall after attending Music for 18 Musicians by Reich in Berlin.

>>61840091
3 kicks and a snare does not a krautrock beat make. Fripp's guitar in particular kills any kraut vibe that would be in the song.

Steve Reich is not too far out from Faust, I would say.

I was just thinking about posting here about those amazing drones from Heroes. I am looking for this in music now. Is Brian Eno into such things since he did that for those albums? I never listened to his solo work.
Also anything similar to those two albums in the way of mixing guitar and electronics into one long mind-penetrating chants?

>>61840193
Listen to Eno's solo records before his ambient series, especially Another Green World and Before and After Science.

>>61840234
thanks,

Heroes > Low
Kid A > Amnesiac
Y'all know this is the only truth.

>>61840262
His solo albums are some of my favorites of all time.

>>61840040
Weeping Wall is just budget Reich you pleb. "Heroes" is literally a Neu! tribute.

>>61840149
>3 kicks and a snare does not a krautrock beat make.
That's literally the motorik beat. What are you talking about?
>Fripp's guitar in particular kills any kraut vibe that would be in the song.
How does it?

>>61839804
Lodger and The Bends ftw tbqh

>>61840400
I don't hear it, but alright. Low is easily more experimental, so it feels more kraut to me, not to mention there's a larger presence of world music on Heroes that feels very antithetical to krautrock.

Honestly I wouldn't ever call either record krautrock. Station to Station sure, but even there the soul music starting from Young Americans carried more weight.

>>61840057
>It's objectively mediocre as all fuck

What exactly do you mean by this? Genuinely interested.

Try being more articulate in your subjective opinion and your arguement against the record will be far, far more persuasive than the dunderheaded crybaby retard "objective" rhetoric.

"Hurrrr these sounds are way worse than these sounds!!!1"

>>61840477
Kraut guitar is not supposed to sound that clean or anthemic. It's supposed to be dirty and rhythmic and quick, literally the opposite of what Fripp is doing.

>>61840495
Interesting opinion because I think Low is the poppier of the two, at least in the first half.

>>61840524
>muh I spout random bullshit about an experimental genre

>>61840524

>I am retarded

>>61840564
And Heroes is definitely the darker one.

>>61840564
Low is poppier I agree, but it's also weirder. Heroes is a more traditional pop record with longer songs and more straightforward ideas. I don't know, they're hard to classify.

>>61840590
Literally any Can record, that's what the guitar is doing. There's sure as hell no big echoey reverby guitar line that could fill stadiums hovering over an entire song.

>>61840659
Some of Future Day's guitar is pretty airy. But yeah Heroes is obviously distinct, but that doesn't lessen the Krautrock influence. Fripp basically went proto-shoegaze with the guitar

Low/OK Computer
Heroes/Kid A
Lodger/Amnesiac

>>61840477
A beat is more than just the drums. It's the bass and the tempo and the overall feel. Motorik is uptempo and the bass is bouncy. It's supposed to build momentum. Heroes' beat is slower, more soulful and subdued. It feels like the beat to a pop song- keeping pace and not investing energy except at the change to the chorus.

>>61840774
>Implying Lodger is worse than Heroes.
>Implying Heroes is better than Low.

>>61840817
So you're saying that Heroes is the worst one from the Berlin Trilogy?

>>61840873
Yes. They're all 8+/10, but Heroes is the one I enjoy the least.

>>61840892
pleb

>>61840892
Lodger is objectively the worst, sorry

Low is Amnesiac and Heroes is Kid A.

>>61840817
>implying that Kid A is better than OKC

>>61840996
>>61840958

>objectively
why? It's got way more momentum than Heroes, and there's more ideas in the same amount of time.

>>61841036
>implying it isn't

>>61841063
More worse ideas, maybe.

>>61841136
Name one song off Lodger that's in any way bad.

>>61841153
Name one song off Heroes that's in any way bad.

>>61840795
No you fucking idiot. That's literally the definition of the motorik beat. It has nothing to do with whether it's "uptempo" or "bouncy".

You could have looked this up for yourself.

>>61841153
I don't think any of them are outright bad, but the majority are quite forgettable. Pretty much everything that isn't African Night Flight, DJ, Boys Keep Swinging or Red Money.

>>61840495
>there's a larger presence of world music on Heroes that feels very antithetical to krautrock
Fucking lol. You don't know what you're talking about and it shows. Give up.

>>61841172
Right, because how it's applied in context doesn't fucking matter. 3 kicks and a snare existed long before krautrock friend, but it doesn't sound anything like a motorik beat.

>>61841169
The Seeeeeeecret Life of Arabia.

Does anyone have a lossy link to Bowie's discography? I can't find the one on RuTracker I used a while back. I'm missing The Man Who Sold The World, Pin-Ups, Scary Monsters, and Everything after Let's Dance.

>>61839858
>Darker
But Heroes is way more positive and lighthearted, whereas Low is pure depression.

>>61841198
>Fantastic Voyage
>Look Back in Anger
>forgettable
nah

>>61841225
>The Seeeeeeecret Life of Arabia
How is that a bad song in any way?

>>61841225
But that's basically a prequel to Lodger, the album you're defending

>>61841228
Don't see that honestly, maybe lyrically but niot musically

>>61841225
>The Seeeeeeecret Life of Arabia.

>bad

Terrible fucking taste.

>3 kicks and a snare existed long before krautrock

Example?

>>61841228
But soundwise it's the opposite.

Pablo Honey - David Bowie debut
The Bends - Hunky Dory
OK Computer - Ziggy Stardust
Kid A - Low
Amnesiac - "Heroes"
Hail To The Theif - Lodger
In Rainbows - Station To Station
King of Limbs - Earthling

>>61841328
In Rainbows should be Let's Dance if anything

>>61841063
Lodger is a disposable (yet still enjoyable) pop record where as Low and Heroes combine to form an insight into Bowie's struggles, and eventual recovery at the time. If you listen to them both back to back, Heroes' optimism and triumpant nature become even more apparrent, as does it's artistic significance. Heroes also serves the purpose of presenting a soundscape of the time by being recorded so close to the Berlin Wall and using german influences on the first half and ambient story telling on the second.

I used to think Lodger was the better album until I listened to Heroes in this context. Heroes is an artistic album with depth and lodger is an enjoyable but disposable album that starts quite strong from an experimental view and falls into generic rock in the second half.

>>61841280
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQSGw0hMd_I
1968
>>61841275
Eh, I don't like it as much.

>>61841403
>>61841280

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXtuKsbORVY

Here's one before Moe Tucker's influence. 1965

It's not exactly hard to believe a drummer here and there decided to play 3 kicks and a snare in a row before 1969

>>61841471
So why is "motorik beat" even a term and why is Moe Tucker talked so much about as being proto motorik beat? This is the exact same pattern, also at an upbeat tempo.

>>61841471
Motorik kind of evolved from the drumming on I'm Waiting for My Man

>>61841517
Motorik beat is just a term coined by music journalists from that time.

>>61841517
>>61841536
Because of what the fuck I said earlier. A beat is more than just the fucking pattern, regardless of what bullshit wikipedia tells you. There's obviously a huge difference in feel between >>61841471
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hugY9CwhfzE

There's a build because of the tempo being quick but not as blistering and thrashy as The Sonics. Not also the bass is not in the forefront of the sound in TVU because it plays on all the same notes as the drums- not in between, and not beyond the chord roots. It feels propulsive, like it's trying to overemphasize that it's in 4/4.

Heroes is actually closer to Motorik than I initially realized, but it's still not propulsive enough. Not also John Cale's guitar is very dirty and rhythmic, not anthemic and heavily in the foreground as Fripp's.

>>61841225
>Right, because how it's applied in context doesn't fucking matter.
Of course it matters, but that doesn't change the definition of the term.
>3 kicks and a snare existed long before krautrock friend
And? Liszt used a 12-tone row before Schoenberg, but that doesn't make him a serialist composer.
>but it doesn't sound anything like a motorik beat.
Unless it's played extremely loose, yes it will because that's what a fucking motorik beat is.

>>61841403
This sounds exactly like a motorik beat.

>>61841471
This doesn't. He's playing the ride cymbal, not the hi-hat.

>>61840495
Can have a huuuge World Music influence, as do many other Krautrock groups

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that not every 3 kick 1 snare pattern is a motorik beat?

>>61841225
Secret Life of Arabia is my favorite song on Heroes

>>61841664
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXol8c6f9IQ

Same record. This is a hi hat.

>>61841719
>Why is it so hard for some people to understand that not every 3-sided polygon is a triangle?

>>61841660
>>61841719
The point is, Bowie and co almost certainly wanted the drums on Heroes to be reminiscent of the Motorik beat. Sure, it's slower tempo, but it's still Motorik, because it was entirely intended to sound like that.

>>61841719
Because they get their information from wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorik

Apparently people think that Mode Tucker was the first drummer to play 3 kicks and a snare with a hi hat hitting eighth notes in the history of pop music. It even says on there "of moderate pace" implying there's more to it than just the pattern. Therefore Heroes arguably does not have a motorik beat, because it is of a slower than moderate pace.

Not that it fucking matters either way. I admit the beat is very motorik like, but in no way does Heroes sound like a Krautrock song to me.

>>61841763
I guess Tucker wasn't so innovative after all.

>>61841836
What's funny is that she's not playing a motorik beat on that song. She's playing the bass drum and snare drum in unison on every eighth note.

Which really just emphasizes again that it's more about feel than the actual pattern, hence why she's proto motorik.

>>61841836
I've never heard her called innovative, she just wasn't very talented and it perfectly suited the music

>>61841832
Moe*

Perfect>>61841328

>>61841832
>I admit the beat is very motorik like, but in no way does Heroes sound like a Krautrock song to me.
Of course it's not a Krautrock song, but the influence is still obviously there, from Neu! especially.

>repetitive bassline and motorik drumbeat throughout
>de-emphasis of harmonic progression in favour of a more minimalist style of composition
>atmospheric, effects-laden guitar noise in lieu of an actual melody line for the majority of the piece
Quick, am I describing Hallogallo or "Heroes"?

>>61842232
Alright, fair enough. I concede Heroes is probably the more krautrock of the two records.

>>61842232
>Quick, am I describing Hallogallo or "Heroes"?

It's also worth noting that both songs at the halfway-ish point introduce a hit on every beat on a cymbal. 2:54 for "Heroes" and 7:02 for "Hallogallo".

>>de-emphasis of harmonic progression in favour of a more minimalist style of composition

I wouldn't agree with this on "Heroes"; not the track anyway. I'm pretty sure it changes between D major and C major throughout, which is at least a semi interesting harmonic progression compared to the drone of Hallogallo.

>>61840774
if we're setting up some kind of radiohead "trilogy" here, wouldn't kid a - amnesiac - hail to the thief make more sense? httt has a lot of leftovers from kid a on it.

sorting it as such also fits bowie's berlin trilogy more
Low/Kid A
"Heroes"/Amnesiac
Lodger/Hail to the Thief

>>61841328
3 hours late but I think In Rainbows should be Scary Monsters

Why does Kid A channel low so much? I dont understand it, but I feel it.