>83 years old Is is still possible to write good music

Ennio Morricone

Milton published Paradise Lost when he was almost 60.

>>61701394
>Verdi

Elliott Carter was still composing in his 100s

>>61701394
He'll be fine

hell be fine

hell be fine

Wasn't Picasso still making art at 90?

>>61701394
He'll be fine.

Actually when I heard that he was scoring TFA, I thought "John Williams? Really? I didn't even know he was still alive."

>>61701525
60 is nothing. Fuck, that's still five years from retirement.

>>61702030
Yeah but he was also blind.

The old guy still produced a fine, competent, and professional score. He hasn't lost his ability to compose BUT he also doesn't really add any new ideas and a lot of it feels like variations on the OT scores. I respect the guy however they may have done well finding a younger guy who could add a fresh perspective to things.

Hence the saying all artists have a finite set of ideas in them.

>>61702218
They're loyal to John and apparently want him to keep scoring for the franchise as long as he can. As far as anyone knows, he's in pretty good health but he is 83 and things could turn on a dime for him. If he does die or become unable to compose, I wonder what they're going to do?

>>61702218
I agree. The prequel scores were nice as well, but Williams as he got older definitely lost some of the dynamic, cutting edge quality he had in the 70s-80s. He was extremely innovative back then, but subsequent generations of composers have overtaken him. None of the prequel/Disney SW scores are as groundbreaking as the OT ones were.

>>61702477
He writes pastiches of Wagner, Puccini and Mahler, writing a pastiche of a pastiche artist isn't much of a challenge for any student musician.

>>61702632
All true. TFA's score is good, even great at some points but has nothing as iconic as The Imperial March, the Indiana Jones theme, or the Reeve Superman soundtrack.

Apparently the original plan was to record TFA's score in London, but Williams at his age just wasn't up to traveling out there so they did it in LA.

>>61702632
There's no shame in that. I mean, Spielberg isn't the cutting edge director he was in 1981 either.

>>61702916
Seems the decision to record in LA was do to the logistics of the scoring sessions taking place over several months.

>>61703043
Well...that goes without saying. Williams would probably have to make multiple 5400 mile plane fights, but a guy in his 80s doesn't want to do that so instead he gets to make a short drive to an LA studio where he can record with old friends he's known for years.

>>61703240
Agreed. I don't see either the great mystery or travesty about this. He's old and doesn't really have the energy for marathon cross-continental trips to record a film score.

>>61702218
>The old guy still produced a fine, competent, and professional score. He hasn't lost his ability to compose BUT he also doesn't really add any new ideas and a lot of it feels like variations on the OT scores. I respect the guy however they may have done well finding a younger guy who could add a fresh perspective to things

You could be right however it's also quite likely that Williams was intentionally asked to produce variations on the OT themes for the sake of nostalgiafaggotry or to cater to fan expectations.

Granted, 80 year old guys aren't known for being a fountain of groundbreaking creative ideas or straying outside of their comfort zone, but we also don't know if he was told by the Disney suits that it had to sound like the OT for branding reasons.

TFA score kinda sucked desu

>>61701568
>>61701569
>>61701636
>>61701879
le ebin maymay :0)

>>61703455
Good point. Nu Star Wars (that is to say all since the prequels) is there to sell merch. That's all.

>>61703471
It's not bad, but it won't blow your head off like ANH's score did back in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGUI87ojtw

>>61703455
>Granted, 80 year old guys aren't known for being a fountain of groundbreaking creative ideas or straying outside of their comfort zone

You're right actually; John Williams is a pretty oldskool guy. He composes scores with a #2 pencil on paper, works out the melody on a keyboard, and doesn't use any computer tools in his work.

>>61702636
The ANH and ESB scores were very obviously meant to imitate Wagner; ROTJ and the prequels not so much, but still succeed by sheer compositional dazzle.

It is quite likely that Disney insisted on something similar to the OT soundtrack for nostalgia. Williams could have maybe still produced something more unique and less recycled, although certainly a guy in his 80s wasn't going to top his 45 year old self. That goes without saying.

It always gets to be a problem when a franchise like Star Wars is dragged out long enough that kids who grew up with it are now old enough to produce/star in/direct the stuff. Witness case - JJ Abrams. They're fanboys who end up making the shit they always wanted to see as a kid. I guess with Star Trek, it wasn't so bad since Abrams wasn't a Trekkie so he could approach that franchise from a more objective POV.

>>61701394
Yeah.

>>61703240
"A living, breathing score takes talented musicians to bring it to life. After six previous film soundtracks being recorded in the UK with the London Symphony Orchestra, The Force Awakens marks the first Star Wars soundtrack to be recorded on American shores, utilizing musicians from AFM Local 47. “With this new film, the schedule has evolved to the point that I’ll need to be working with the orchestra continuously for several months, and that’s obviously easier for me to do here in Los Angeles, than it would be in London.”

>>61703955
>It always gets to be a problem when a franchise like Star Wars is dragged out long enough that kids who grew up with it are now old enough to produce/star in/direct the stuff

Or worse, it becomes a brand name designed to move toys.

>>61703955
Lucas was practically a fanboy of himself producing semi-coherent homages to his earlier trilogy.

>>61703999
Uh huh. Keep in mind that Revenge of the Sith (the last SW film) was 10-11 years ago so John Williams has probably aged quite a bit since then and while he could still make those long trips to England up to his early 70s, he can't do it anymore at 80+.

They had to shoot Christopher Lee's LOTR scenes in London because New Zealand is about as far away from the UK as you can physically get and the guy was too old for that shit.

Is it confirmed he wrote the score entirely himself? He didn't write the trailer music http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-trailer-music/

>>61703955
Superman Returns was also a horrible case of fanboy syndrome.

>>61703955
I'm no huge fan of Abrams's Trek films, but quality notwithstanding, they did make Trek viable again as a big screen franchise after TNG movies burned it to the ground and urinated on the rubble.

Anyone else notice that there are absolutely NO PICTURES of Williams conducting TFA score? Is someone else conducting the score this time?

>>61704364
Were TNG movies really that bad or did nerds just not like them because they weren't Shatner and friends?

>>61704407
IDK. I do know that he had to cancel his annual Boston Pops concert last summer because of a back issue.

Not that this is new or entirely age-related; all the way back in the 90s (when Williams was much younger), he missed out on conducting some of the Jurassic Park soundtrack due to a slipped disc.

He absolutely did conduct TFA score himself; there's no pics because they didn't allow cell phones in there and anyone who tried to sneak a phone into the place would have been caught.

>>61704541
Are you one of the musicians? Do tell.

>>61703955
>>61703839
Yeah at some point, you gotta have innovation or a franchise suffers. Appeal to nostalgiafags and you kill the franchise. Successful filmmakers know how to give the fans what they need instead of what they think they need.

Adam West didn't have a monopoly on Batman, William Shatner didn't have a monopoly on Star Trek, Jack Nicholson didn't have a monopoly on the Joker, Sean Connery didn't have a monopoly on James Bond, etc, etc.

>>61701394
its a pity he didn't die before Episode VII began production

File: CA6U15dWcAEWqV1.jpg (38KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

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>>61704580
No, but here's two images of him conducting at Disney Hall in March of '15.

>>61701808
Picasso was an art machine. He had an insane creative output.

>>61701394
>Is is still possible to write good music at this age?
Of course
>Does John Williams still write good music
Judging by the latest star wars film, not really.

>>61702636
>I've only seen his mainstream films.jpg

Man is capable of anything. Unless you've analyzed his use of leitmotifs in star wars you probably just dont know what you're talking about. Yes he has sensational orchestration and feeling for melody, just like Wagner and Mahler did, but he is able to do far more styles than just that. He writes very well in the serial / atonal fashion as well, but you dont cry about him being a schoenberg copycat.

Literally anyone writing in the late romantic style could be accused of "Wagner pastiche" etc. All music is stealing from those before you and making it your own. Williams did exactly that, and is a generation of great film composers, along with Jerry goldsmith, Morricone, and the earlier generation of Herrmann/Steiner/etc. Mahlerian grandeur has been part of film scores since the very start.

The reason he gets so much work is because he's damn good.

>>61704541
A shame he didn't have the LSO. It changed everything in the score. The horns just dont have the same timbre or punch or brightness

>>61704694
Getting back to my original point. I still think Disney should get a new young guy to compose SW scores who can come up with some original ideas instead of rehashing the OT scores as much as annoying 40 year old nostalgiafags will whine that only John can do it.

If dubs, he dies this year.

>>61704870
Yeah but we did point out that they probably told Williams to rehash everything for branding/nostalgiafaggotry.

>>61704968
While that's true, you can certainly also consider that Williams at his age probably wasn't going to argue with Disney and anyway, coming up with something really new and cutting edge is likely beyond him at this point.

Whereas a vigorous 40-something guy might challenge the Disney suits and say "Nah, fuck you. I have a better idea for this film score."

It's confirmed that William Ross conducted at least part of the score due to Williams's lingering back problems.

>>61704694
I wonder if at some point we'll see a new guy playing Indiana Jones? Harrison Ford seems to be going senile because he says he'll still do it if they make another IJ film. Geez, even Shatner had the grace to pass on the torch to that new kid in the Abrams Star Trek movies.

>>61705203
conducting is really just going through the motions and keeping everyone in time. As long as Williams is sitting in on the session, he can still have just as much control about the sound, without ever stepping onto the podium.

>>61704870
>>61704870
>I still think Disney should get a new young guy
Bear McCreary seems to be the hot new composer of the decade

Well Beethoven made music when he was deaf and Williams is in pretty good condition so I think he's fine.

File: Ennio_Morricone.jpg (2MB, 1371x2067px) Image search: [Google]

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yes

I'm surprised that Mark Hamill got second billing in TFA yet doesn't appear on the movie poster at all.

>>61705314
>and Williams is in pretty good condition so I think he's fine

Aside from his back, which evidently has been causing him problems for 20+ years, he seems to be fairly fit and healthy for his age. Still, in your 80s you can go from 60 to 0 pretty freaking fast.

>>61705063
I can understand that from a cynical business POV if Disney feels that A. Nostalgiafags would prefer JW to a new guy and B. He's old so will be more compliant and less likely to argue with them over the creative direction of the soundtrack than a guy in his prime would

>>61705433
The original cast are just there to appeal to nostalgiafags; the main young actors are the real center of the movie.

>>61705275
Ford hasn't actually tried to "act" in 10+ years. He got to the point where he cynically realized that the public would pay to see anything that had his name on it.

>>61705566
Disney has gotta have SOME kind of contingency plan in place because they have to know that they can't rely on an octogenarian composer forever.

>>61703999
Geez, several months is an eternity at 82 years old especially because you don't know if you'll still be here in several months.

>>61705870
Yeah I have to wonder if Abrams was not asking a little too much out of the old fart. Even with him not having to do this score in London, it's still a lot.

>>61705887
AFAIK, John has always taken at least five months to compose film scores going back to the 70s.

>>61705928
Yes, back in the 1970s when he was under the age of 50. The guy is several years past the average life expectancy of a white American male (76). He could die or become incapacitated remarkably fast at his current age.

Sounds like the production of TFA was pretty brutal on all involved; I know that Abrams injured his back assisting Harrison Ford when they were shooting one scene.

>>61704852
I don't disagree that Williams is a fine composer with a definite ear for melody, but he does blatantly steal from other composers in a way that can be kind of shameful at times.

>>61705887
Disagree. Abrams really asked very little out of John Williams. He didn't even have any specific ideas for the film score, he just told him "Do what you do best."

I actually really liked the ROTS score aside from cobbling a few bits from TPM score.

>>61701394
No

>>61701525
So what?

Michael Gira is over 61

Apart from the use of familiar themes, TFA didn't give me a lot of Star Wars vibes. Which is bad for a Star Wars trailer. Right from the opening keyboard plonk I was a bit, "huh?". To me, Zimmer/Remote Control aesthetics just doesn't feel right for Star Wars.

Nostalgiafags will be forever butthurt because their 45 year old asses just can't view the new SW movies with the same magic they did as children.

Like his work or not, Abrams is a showman and a salesman who makes people believe in him. And the fact is, "Felicity" was (on the WB scale) a hit, "Alias" did well, and "Lost" was a water-cooler smash (for a while, anyway). When Gail Berman, a television producer and executive who had known Abrams, became head of Paramount Pictures (briefly), she dipped into her TV talent pool and chose him for "Mission: Impossible III".

I thought the new "Star Trek" films Abrams did were terrible (I actually admired his direction, but the scripts were absurd -- and yes, I know he's not credited with the screenplays). But the first one was a big hit, and the second did just fine.

I think on purpose Episode 7 is meant to invoke a lot of nostalgia for the original trilogy. I have a feeling Episode 8 and 9 will veer into more original territory.

Lets see. Last time they went too far over the nostalgic bit and ruined INDY IV. I suppose its more nostalgic and reverential in the current marketing campaign.

>>61706737
Here's the issue at hand: Episode VII is written in a vacuum. They've even said that Episodes VIII and IX are unwritten at this time and are at some point in pre-production (somehow? vaguely?) - which means that without knowing the punchline, they've already started on a joke.

Admittedly, not having a second and third act in a large story arc doesn't mean outright failure - Star Trek II, III and IV were written one at a time - but when it comes to the type of storytelling Star Wars is embedded in, this is a sign of basically Disney not giving a shit or a fuck or a goddamn about the property. While movie studios being unscrupulous, no good, very bad things is a cliche, its jarring when you see it done to what is likely the largest perpetual pop culture property of the last three decades.

George Lucas, for his many faults, at least had not only the prequels planned out to a larger degree - but he also tested the waters with that Shadows of the Empire stuff years before he started production on any new films. Disney? Nope. Here's a date, do it by then - and without any planning ahead with the story arc.

I'll fully admit I could be VERY wrong about this - but as it is now, the current media culture we're in does not give a damn about originality; its just about immediate profit, which this film will no doubt be the paragon of like so many other warmed-over reboots (Star Trek, Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man) or remakes to the point of plagiarism (Skyfall, Inception) but... it doesn't matter what the architecture is if people just care about the wallpaper.

The old rumors go that Lucas had an entire story arc consisting of nine movies planned, but the inconsistencies say otherwise.

>>61706857
We know this isn't true because Lucas had no idea if ANH would be a success at all and the evidence indicates that he didn't think it would. Only after the movie went gangbusters did he plan out sequels. In his original script, Darth Vader wasn't Luke's father, Leia wasn't Luke's sister, and Vader was supposed to have killed Luke's father. That was it. Over the years, GL would talk of making nine or even 12 movies but they were just vague speculation.

During the scripting of ESB, in one version of the early drafts Luke sees the ghost of his father, who tells him about a sister, who is not Leia. Ultimately it was decided Father Skywalker being a separate character just created story problems, so Vader being the father was just more simpler and more dramatic. Similarly, during ESB Yoda says the line: "There is another". This was a setup for a Jedi character we hadn't met yet, possibly Luke's sister, who would be introduced in Episode VI, and would then be the main hero from Episode VII onwards, until the Emperor and co. would finally be defeated in Episode IX (or XII), but it was all very vague.

But then a lot of things happened. The ESB production, which Lucas financed with his own money, was very troubled and went overschedule and overbudget, causing a lot of stress for Lucas. His marriage ran into trouble, eventually ending in divorce in which he lost half his fortune. Lucas was now burned out and just wanted to be done with Star Wars, so he scrapped all those plans for future films and wanted to end the whole thing with Episode VI, so down went the Emperor and the "another" was changed to Leia to finish that plot, even though it made little sense when looking at the previous films.

So the original films were indeed written one at a time, and there was no fixed story for a big Saga.

The final version of SW ended up fairly close to Lucas's original draft script, however he originally had several variations of the story including some that were much more surreal and sci-fi. In the end, the version of SW we got was the only feasible one they could have done with their budget and 1970s technological constraints.

One thing that I found interesting in JW Rinzler's excellent "The Making of Star Wars" (which was based almost entirely on archival interviews from 1975-78) was that Lucas considered the idea of midi-chlorians (many prequel haters' most "Un-Star-Warsy" thing) even back then, as part of his backstory.

>>61707027
Unfortunately Rinzler mixed in bits from new (post-prequel trilogy) interviews with Lucas into that book, allowing him to sprinkle in those claims of having planned the whole saga beforehand, and those midichlorian claims indeed came from a post-prequel trilogy interview, not from anything said in the 70s. Being a Lucasfilm-sanctioned book, Rinzler just put all those bogus claims from Lucas into that book without being able to call it BS or even question all the inconsistencies.

>>61707054
The midichlorian bits were specifically from Lucas' 1977-78 "sequel plans"/guidance for books as sketched out which were included intact/unedited as an appendix, at least, in the Kindle version.

>>61707083
I'm not sure why I should care when George Lucas dreamed up midichlorians -- whenever it was, they are (to me) one of his worst inventions, literalizing something best left mystical.

I have tremendous respect and admiration for George Lucas, but like so many weavers of fantasy worlds before him, as time went on, his interest in telling compelling stories seemed to be overtaken by his interest in simply cataloging his imagined universe. Variations of the same affliction struck Tolkien and Roddenberry, and seems to be consuming Rowling as well -- the worlds seem to be the point, rather than the storytelling. I suppose that could be as valid as anything else to those who want to live in those worlds, but it doesn't much interest me.

The Rinzler 1977 midichlorians quote has always been my go-to evidence for the fact that Lucas has always been hacky, but Star Wars was saved by limited time and resources.

>>61701394
Yes, Mozart wrote his sixth requiem at the age of 85.

I've never understood the flack about midichlorians. It was already stated in the original trilogy that the Force was strong in the Skywalker family, so how else would this be explained except inherited by blood? And there are some OT characters stronger in the Force than others, this just simply gives it a name and why. But it doesn't take anything away from the Force being a mystical energy, it just explains how the characters commune with it and why some have a great propensity for being strong in the Force. And in another way, the concept of midichlorians ties into the overarching theme found "The Phantom Menace", that of symbiosis between two living things. This is presented in the Gungans and Naboo, Jedi Master and Padawan and Sith Master and his apprentice.

>>61707164
>I've never understood the flack about midichlorians

Some things are best left unexplained. This took Star Wars into Star Trek techy babble talk territory.

>>61707164
It removed some of the mystic. Now it's something that really anybody could have if they get a blood transfusion from a Jedi Knight or a Skywalker.

>>61707215
Yeah it sort of kills you to see something as mystical as The Force reduced to simple biology. For example, Bill Watterson purposely left the nature of Hobbes's existence a vague mystery and rightly so.

film composers of his status (including Howard Shore and Danny Elfman) usually dont write 90% of their scores, they usually hum a "musical idea," and then have their aides score it up

>>61707503
Sure. It was already covered that John Williams works out melodies on a keyboard and probably has assistants flesh them out.