>>61605335 >Don Quixote Yes. Loved it. Surprisingly hilarious. >Pet Sounds No. >Citizen Kane No, not interested. >Mario Bros. Yeah. And like Citizen Kane and Pet Sounds, it has no business being on a list with Don Quixote.
>>61605586 Citizen Kane does deserve to be in the list because it can be argued as the best piece of art in the medium. Maybe not as entertaining today as it once was, but it was incredibly important technically, and that's not up for debate. The fact that a 25 year old made it as his first film is incredible. I'd say that it deserves to be with Don Quixote, other films that could be on that list would be Vertigo and 2001. Maybe someone could argue the same about Pet Sounds, but IMO there are better albums (not to say Pet Sounds isn't incredible), and it's harder to call an album that came out in the 20th century the best piece of music ever, since music is the oldest art form. And I don't personally agree with a video game being on the list, although if you have to put one therem it should be Super Mario Bros. Basically, you should watch Citizen Kane and listen to Pet Sounds
>>61605335 >song has a generic super model singer with really mediocre background music >song´s 1000000x more popular and gets infinite views compared to actually talented music in youtube why this keeps happening? like pitbull gets 500 million views adele gets 900 million views but any dance music or non-mainstream can barely even get a million? the fuck is this?
>>61605925 Music is old af, if OP meant albums exclusively than sure, it can be on the list. >Why not video games? Do you think it's an inferior form of art? I guess I see them more as entertainment rather than art, not saying that's bad, it's just two different things. It's just the way I see it though
>>61605925 Videogames are lightyears away from being allowed to be considered art, especially when nowadays videogames seem to try their hardest not to be videogames. They either want to be art by being a book, or by being a movie.
For a videogame to be considered art, it needs to convey that through its medium. It needs to be art BECAUSE it's a videogame. And that just hasn't happened yet to a degree that actually matters.
Super Mario Bros. is more of a cultural phenomenon than a piece of videogame art.
So far, looking for art in videogames is like looking for art in masking tape. Sure, you can make a pretty mural out of it by ripping it up and sticking it to a wall in patterns, or write sonnets on it. That doesn't make it "masking tape art". You're just taking a different art form and projecting it onto the medium of masking tape.
As long as videogames are just movies or books with a different hat on, they should not and will never seriously be considered art, and no one who is considered an authority in the videogame culture would say "oh yeah, the gameplay in this game is so special, it should be in a videogame museum". No. They talk about the amazing story, or the great characters. All fine qualities that aren't out of place in a videogame. But that doesn't make it an "artful videogame". There are games that have exceptional, boundary transcending gameplay, but barely anyone in the medium cares.
>>61606183 The reason why video games will never be considered art is because it will always be tied to the aspect of childhood and immaturity. No one criticises an adult man who watches films, reads books, or listens to music. However, video games have this cultural stigma that won't go away anytime soon.
>>61606299 Yeah, that is a big part as well. The question is how that's gonna look in a few decades when the current videogame-crazy generation is older. Videogames have never had as much acceptance as they have today. I'd like to see how these people think about videogames when they are 60.
if everyone made a thread asking if other people have listened to their favorite album or read their favorite book this board would be even shittier than it already is what on earth made you think these four works belong in a same list apart from the fact that you like em? no one gives a fuck about your taste anon
>>61606183 Brothers - a tale of two sons transcends storytelling by fusing it with the gameplay mechanics. No other medium could tell the story of this game and let the "listener" experience the same thing.
>Don Quixote read part of it in spanish but for whatever reason didn't finish >pet sounds listened to it for the first time ~2months ago >Citizen Kane never seen it >super mario bros in high school I spent an autismal amount of time getting down a speed run for the game I think I finished it in under 8 minutes no glitches or stupid shit just hopping through the portals and skipping levels
>>61608720 Except I'm not. Satyricon is basically bisexual ancient roman porn and it's hilarious as fuck among other things. Freak Out is super entry level experimental rock. Eraserhead is just the best film, the best at treating it like classical art, where there are no limits. Spacewar! is the most inflential game of all time and invented half the mechanics that make video games what they are.
>>61606183 This is dumb thinking. The thing that adds video games to the fold is gameplay storytelling. Not narrative storytelling. Actual interactivity to make your own stories.
What video games are to entertainment is that they are theatrical plays. Or more of your the main character of a play that has to improvise on a play that is set to you. Your an actor in a play if that makes sense. And what an actor/player experiences in that makes them feel special or beyond reasoning.
Fumito Ueda introduced the concept of minimal game design and it changed the whole landscape for gaming for better or worse. He created games that did not need story and exposition to tell a story. Only environments and actions you do will spread your story around.
Any game that is inspired by Ueda's philosophies like ICO and Shadow of the Colossus can be considered games as games alone.
This whole stupid argument of whether video games are art is wrong. It is if video games can be high art and good is where it matters. Which is subjective in itself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmSBIyT0ih0
>>61605335 >Don Quixote I haven't and I know I'm probably a pleb for this >Pet Sounds One of my favorite albums of all time >Citizen Kane Seen it once or twice but it was years ago, I need to rewatch it now that I'm older (27), it's been at least 10 years since I saw it last. >Super Mario Bros Played it many times years ago, good game, I don't play many games these days (I just randomly lost interest, I think it was because I gamed heavily on drugs [MXE] and once I quit doing MXE daily on a heavy basis they just became really boring to me) but the Mario games are still fun to me on the odd occasion I decide to play one.
This is mine. >>61606649 >kubrick's best, impressive (visuals) for its time It still is impressive to this day like Blade Runner. CGI de-evolved worlds that looked so meticulously designed from the ground up. >>61605335 >Don Quixote Currently on hold. >Pet Sounds Smile Sessions is better, but it is still one of the best Baroque-Pop albums ever. Up there with Scott 4 and Hounds of Love. >Citizen Kane I actually own it, but I haven't seen it for 4 years. I will watch it again, because at that time I thought it was the second coming or some shit. I'm more refined with my film tastes ever since. Ingmar Bergman and Andrei Tarkovsky are my all time favorite Directors if I want to add anything to this. >Super Mario Brothers Played the All-Star SNES port. Not as good as SMB3 at all and not even close to the 3D ones. Galaxy 2 is still the best Mario game.
>>61606183 >Videogames are lightyears away from being allowed to be considered art, especially when nowadays videogames seem to try their hardest not to be videogames. They either want to be art by being a book, or by being a movie. My nigga.
And a lot of games, like No More Heroes 1, Metroid series, Ico and Shadow of the Colossus prove that a game can be art while still being 'fun' and video gamey.
Also reminder that most of the effort to make video games into movies has been from Western devs.
>>61611985 Like...once you realize that Western devs actually kinda suck at designing deep, interesting, and fun gameplay systems, then that's when you start to become patrician. It's not really every Western dev, but they do generally only really deliver mediocre gameplay at best most of the time, and are super derivative of each other. Seems like all the features in one Western AAA game will always be in another and several more.
What's more, seems like despite Western devs kinda sucking, Western game design is so much more popular than Japanese design at the moment. It's sickening.
I understand the appeal on some level, but why are so many people cool with every Western game trying its damned hardest to be a Hollywood movie?
>>61612210 Totally agreed, also something like The Stanley Parable, even if it has alot of story-like elements and the mechanics are simple it conveys the feeling and weight of choice, which is the base of what makes videogames art, very well.
>>61612288 Well Stanley Parable is one of the examples I would throw in making you feel self aware as an Actor/Player in a game. The Narrator is a mouth piece of the developer and it works in its favor in that way. Also you can see it as the Dev fucking around with your player choices.
>>61612357 >knowing that Japanese game design is generally better makes me a weeb Call me when any Western game has combat as good as Bayonetta, the Wonderful 101, or Dark Souls then. Call me when Western developers actually give their games deep combat mechanics then or when they design bosses worth a fucking shit.
>>61612482 At least Japanese devs know how to make good-looking women. They're also generally better at art styles and aesthetics in general.
In fact, Japanese devs are kinda better all across the board. I'd say Western devs were generally better at writing and worldbuilding but even then they have no creativity like Japs do. They don't know how to play with the medium and write games with actual themes and messages like the Japs do.
>>61612563 >No More Heroes 1 and 2 >Shadow of the Colossus >Metal Gear Solid 2 All of these games play with the player's expectations of the typical video game experience to pull the rug out from underneath them in the last acts of the game, if not at some point before then, subverting expectations in a way only a video game could.
I can't think of any Western games that actually do anything like that.
>>61612601 Okay maybe I'm wrong about Japs being generally better at art styles and aesthetics. But you do see the Japanese experiment more with more varied art styles than Western devs.
>>61612563 Not him, but I got a few. Dark Souls > Lords of the Fallen Dragons Dogma > Skyrim/Witcher 3 (Purely Gameplay) Devil May Cry 3 > DMC: Devil May Cry Legend of Zelda > Darksiders Super Mario Galaxy 2 > Jack & Daxter Precursors Stone The only real debate is indies and Rpgs. JRPGs and CRPGs are neck and neck and none of them are better then the other, because of the philosophies are so different from one another. >>61612628 You sound like your too old for this generation. Games are art, but not high art.
>>61612806 Problem with all those games you listed is that in some form. Those are more outdated then the actual critically acclaimed games of those time periods. Yes! It is indeed true that those pushed video games into more innovations, but generally the ones that picked up the rubble and improved upon them are generally better.
>>61612857 Improved upon them in what way? Secondhand genre fiction plots, bad vector graphics and hormonal teenage boy fanservice?
Almost every game listed in this thread so far lifted it's mechanics from somewhere else, and as a piece of art didn't do anything new with the medium. A good deal of the acclaimed video games of the past are all right, but many more suck horribly.
What game should I download and play tonight? I'd like to get back to Antichamber, but I don't have a fucking mouse right now. I'm down for any indie games on Steam or using an emulator for something older, whatever. Open to all styles of games.
>>61612949 LISA if you like turned-based rpgs Cairo if you want a more obscure Antichamber Titan Souls if you want to see one simple mechanic honed to perfection OFF if you want something free and weird Hylics if you want to play thes trangest looking game I've ever played with a space-y noise rock ost
>>61612991 Those are mechanically NOT THAT FUCKING SPECIAL AT ALL. Like seriously the game-play mechanics of those are pretty much nothing special at all, especially not compared to the more experimental games of western. The story telling of those games are pretty good and a bit special but they don't fit to what was being talked about at all.
>>61613045 >Like seriously the game-play mechanics of those are pretty much nothing special at all Seriously now?
SotC was pretty groundbreaking and much like Ico, ended up being pretty damn influential. Mechanically I guess it's not that special but structurally and conceptually, you bet it was.
Wonderful 101 is the freshest character action/cuhrayzee game since probably the original DMC1. Actual evolution in the genre for once.
Kid Icarus: Uprising is a shooter, but a very unique one, to the point where people weren't sure what genre to classify it under. As a shooter not unlike a FPS or a TPS with some arena FPS influences, it's fairly unique. There's not really a game that plays like it really.
Plus there are some others, like: >Pikmin >Smash Bros. >Katamary Damacy
>>61613154 None of these are truly THAT original or that genre-breaking. Smash Bros is just a fighter with a new mechanic, pikmin is a regular top down puzzle game with a cute mechanic. None of these are mechanically especially amazing at all, and you really, really, really have not proven your point.
>>61613154 I think your wrong. About one thing about SotC and ICO. I think you are referring to Fumito Ueda's design philosophy of Design by Subtraction. The thing is that SotC and ICOs gameplay are not the reason it became influential. It is that at that time games were starting to become less and less simple and more complex. And this resulted for Ueda to make a game that focused on just that. Making it simple to the point where the single gameplay mechanic has 100% focused.
I mean ICO has an escort mission throughout the whole game and it doesn't get difficult or annoying at all throughout the game. Where as Bioshock Infinite does the same, but takes Elizabeth out of the equation and just inserts her in there as an invincible ammo/health replenisher.
>>61613266 >so? The west has the puzzle genre dominated Is that even true? Both sides have lots of great puzzle games. Its one of the genres that doesn't slant to either side.
>Tribes as a balletic shooter Shooters generally err on the Western side but the Japs make plenty of good shooters when they want to. Just look at Splatoon, which by the way, is one of the more unique and fresh concepts to come out in a while.
>and God Games like Black and White Meh. More of a Western thing, sure. Both Western and Japanese devs do have genres they created and excel at though.
>>61613316 THANKS FOR KATAMARI DAMACY THE REST YOU SAID WAS BULLSHIT How is SSB not a fighting game? If anyone is debating that they'd have to be really fucking dumb. It's based on fighting, it's from the same kind of perspective as previous fighting games. You have movesets that work through combos and button combinations. The biggest thing it brought to the table was the % thing and thats clearly not enough to push it off a genre.
>>61613408 Boy the weebs sure got to you if you seriously think that every single game coming from a place is amazing and that everything from some other place is terrible. You're just being silly at this point.
>>61613481 >Boy the weebs sure got to you if you seriously think that every single game coming from a place is amazing and that everything from some other place is terrible. You're just being silly at this point. Real talk, I never even remotely implied as much. You're putting words into my mouth by this point.
>>61613416 No. There are standards for Fighting games in the classic sense.
For example, no items, only 1v1, no falling, no RnG (Luigi is full RnG),
>>61613455 Exactly a lot of game devs reference ICO as reasons of getting into the games industry. Like Miyazaki from Soulsborne fame and to a lesser extent the guy who made Fez (fuck his attitude though). Basically the whole Design by Subtraction philosophy in games pretty much ingrained Indie games for the future. Since most of them use this ideology as a basis to make a game.
Super Meat Boy, Dust Force, Stanley Parable, Undertale, Hotline Miami, Papers Please, and Rocket League to name a few. Focus on 1 gameplay mechanic throughout most the game and expands on it tremendously. Without ICO this will never happen or people would just cite less popular stuff like Another World instead.
>>61613588 To add to the Fighting game thing. Smash is a minimalist version of games like Powerstone or Street Fighter, because it doesn't have mix ups, cancels, parries, and such. They added Super Armor in Smash, but that's the only thing that carried over that is semi-fighting game mechanics related. >>61613682 I had that on there, but I wasn't sure it did focus on 1 mechanic or it is just a metroidvania. I thought of the same thing with La Mulana or Shovel Knight. And I just think of those as Castlevania/Metroid successors.
>>61613682 We were talking about mechanics, and you named almost no games with interesting MECHANICS. You were mostly talking about story elements and such. I heard pretty much one i can agree with is on level with many of the western and that was Katamari Damacy
>>61613727 >To add to the Fighting game thing. Smash is a minimalist version of games like Powerstone or Street Fighter, because it doesn't have mix ups, cancels, parries, and such. They added Super Armor in Smash, but that's the only thing that carried over that is semi-fighting game mechanics related. Smash can have mixups depending on the character.
Also that's Masahiro Sakurai's design philosophy in general when it comes to video games. ALL of his games strip down certain genres to their most basic of elements on a gameplay and control level. From there, he devises an entirely new way to play that sort of game. Just look at Kirby's Air Ride or Kid Icarus: Uprising.
>I had that on there, but I wasn't sure it did focus on 1 mechanic or it is just a metroidvania. I thought of the same thing with La Mulana or Shovel Knight. And I just think of those as Castlevania/Metroid successors. True. It was pretty influential when it comes to indie games though.
>>61613782 >We were talking about mechanics, and you named almost no games with interesting MECHANICS. Nigga have you even remotely played the games that I was talking about? I didn't even mention story, I was talking PURELY about mechanics. Did you even read my posts? Have you even heard about those games? Have you played them?
teenagers think Pet Sounds is some kind of experimental emotional masterpiece when really it's just The Beatles 2 Faggotronic Boogaloo
I'm 28 years old, I'm probably older than the majority of people on /mu/. I've studied music theory in college for five years. I play more than five instruments including guitar and violin. I'm part if a rock duo and I perform monthly at various places. We've been working on an album since 2014. I think I know what I'm talking about.
To all you Pet Sounds fags, how much music theory do you know? What instruments do you play? I'm guessing none.
>>61606351 >>61606299 No, the problem with videogames is that they can never compete with the other art forms. >this game has great story! Too bad literature exists >these cutscenes tho Too bad film exists >but the music! You guessed it, it's already been beaten. Only games that can be considered art are ones that tell a story uniquely in a way that is only possible through videogames, see Miyazaki and the souls series.
>>61616480 >I'm 28 years old, I'm probably older than the majority of people on /mu/. I've studied music theory in college for five years. I play more than five instruments including guitar and violin. I'm part if a rock duo and I perform monthly at various places. We've been working on an album since 2014. I think I know what I'm talking about. Is this some new pasta or what?
>>61605586 Maybe you should give them a chance? This literally proves the trending blind contrarianism on 4chan has no basis, anons have opinions on art before they've even experienced it. Stop shitposting about things you don't know about asswipe
>>61613154 People believe that vidya needs to move away from the traditional Boss by Boss progression, and games that do well today are ones that stray away from that traditional method of storytelling in games.
>SotC, proves that the Boss by Boss concept does not restrict the video game at all, and can be executed perfectly.
Dark Souls tried to do the same, however, it has gotten more about "muh difficult gameplay". I still adore Dark Souls, but it's because Dark Souls just went a slightly different direction, that it keeps from being in my top 3 list.
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