Obvious b8 OP, but still I much prefer BTBAM. Goes without saying that I got into them when I was 16, before anyone says it, but I still enjoy them now 4 years later just as much as I did before. Dream Theater are horribly dull for me.
This The band really sucks, they've made a vast amount of absolute pure shit songs ( and I tend to say that it has become even worse with the departure of Portnoy), but Images And Words is a great album even if you dislike the genre of prog metal
I used to be a HUGE fan and even saw them live, but they really are a shit band. A parody of the greatest prog bands, who only made a single good album and then a bunch of flawed ones. They are all fantastic musicians but can't write music for shit.
>>61555480 in terms of influence, yes. But Dream Theater got off a couple great albums and influence a couple great bands, and Meshuggah has some okay stuff.
Most good "prog" metal nowadays is actually hidden in black, death, and power metal bands that people don't usually label explicitly as prog. It makes sense, since originally metal was hugely influenced by prog rock (see: Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden)
>>61553658 i really love part the second. i dont really care about genres, but maudlin of the well is definitely more interesting and less cheese than Dream Theater, which is a band that everyone should've grown out of by freshman year high school. their lead songwriter (John Petrucci) even admitted that he doesn't actively listen to music aside from the radio in the car, which explains why the band have basically been repeating the same Rush copypasta garbage for over 20 years, and every now and then mixing in some of the latest pop metal trends from bands like Muse.
for the record i was a tremendous prog fag in high school so i know what it feels like to have to defend this shit band. you have to face reality. >>61553975 Unexpect are truly an embarrassing lol-wacky-random "art" band. technically amazing, but just purely bad music.
>>61555762 I've already gone through my post-high school "growing up" phase and I feel confident enough to freely pick the sounds I like again. Images and Words is full of legitimately brilliant music and it doesn't matter that their later stuff is boring. Even though I've gotten into way more music (including more respected prog and metal bands) since I first listened to it, I like I&W more as an adult than I did as a teenager.
and I don't think motW is significantly less cheesy than DT. A prog or metal fan who has a problem with "cheese" is just ignorant, since both genres are built on hyperbole and melodrama.
>>61556369 I'm into actual avant-garde and experimental music, so I'm not impressed by any of the mediocre bullshit Unexpect pulls. Meanwhile, their music doesn't provide ANY of the shit I actually look for in metal (e.g. riffs, immediacy) because they're more interested in piling up layers of abstract crap than writing rock music.
Meanwhile, DT at their best wrote some ass-tearing Fates Warning-style metal and embellished it with interesting harmony and cool virtuoso solos. It's still not "art music", but it's a hell of a lot smarter and more exciting than Unexpect.
>>61555480 Meshuggah is amazing, but they really need to go further experiment their sound. Even If I have some of their records and still think they are one-of-a-kind, lots of people are trying to get their sound and they need to change.
But still, I bought the "I" Ep remastered, and blown away every fuckin time. I also think their last album had some great songs. Still one of my favs.
>>61556582 Koloss is probably the only album I've listened to so far, that has made me headbang involuntarily/subconciously. Fekken great stuff.
Om the topic of DT, the last two albums may not have been as interesting as their earlier works, but they're still good albums. I feel as if DT is one of the few bands that use odd time signatures and meters because it fits and is appropriate, and isn't just for show, or to create and odd rhythm. It's great that people mention meshuggah, because they're sort of on the opposite end - weird shit squeezed into quarter note bars (rather than "proper" sounding riffs laid out in odd meters)
>>61556782 Dream theater sometimes pulls out a decent riff, but why on earth did you pick Pull me Under of all things? That riff is just some okay, syncopated chugging and not anything really special. The thing with Dream Theater is that they have a ton of chugging and filler chords and are often really simple and pretty bland for a prog band.
The main riff of Feasting Fools is way better and much more interesting. There's nothing wrong with genre shifts. Unexpect does them very well and incorporates them into the song. It's fantastic, unique prog metal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRApOOetSco
>>61557002 which is the main riff? There are like 10 retarded Gorguts riffs in this song and the girl just screamed and distorted the mic and I'm starting to get a headache.
like I said, all of the dumb artsy shit they throw into this song distracts and detracts from what could have been competent death metal. There's way to much stop-and-go. Making a bad metal song would be justified if the artsy shit was actually interesting, but it's not (because I've heard enough artsy shit to recognize that these people are just illiterate manchildren/womanchildren)
A riff doesn't have to be busy to be great, and I guess a lot of more naive fans of prog don't understand that. The riff at the timestamp I linked in Pull Me Under is top class, and most of the others in that song are too. Those aren't really good examples of DT's stereotypical chugging riffs, which I agree have become overused but were a cool idea to begin with. I have no idea what you mean by "filler chords"
>>61557295 >which is the main riff? Are you serious? Most of the riffs in that song are obviously based around the opening riffs. If you can't see something as simple as that, I just don't really know what to say.
>There are like 10 retarded Gorguts riffs Gorguts never sounded anything like that song. Have you ever listened to Gorguts?
There's like nothing artsy about that song at all. I'm sorry that I have to pull this card, but it's pretty obvious that you just don't know what you're talking about.
>I have no idea what you mean by "filler chords" Just strumming long power chords during verses instead of playing an interesting melodic line.
>>61557382 >There's like nothing artsy about that song at all. oh yeah, the lady opera singer, the dialogue between vocalists, the whispered chanting, and the weird burlesque middle section are all totally congruous with their orthodox death metal aesthetic. I guess there's technically nothing artsy about that if by artsy you mean artistic, since it's all middlebrow wank.
>Most of the riffs in that song are obviously based around the opening riffs. If you can't see something as simple as that, I just don't really know what to say. I like that you're trying to patronize me because you've spent more time closely listening to a shitty metal song that I painfully trudged through 1.5 times. Anyway they're not all related, and that has nothing to do with which one is the "main riff" you were talking about
>Just strumming long power chords during verses instead of playing an interesting melodic line. That's because the singer is singing. Yeah, they do that sometimes because a musical texture doesn't always have to be needlessly busy.
>>61557940 >oh yeah, the lady opera singer, the dialogue between vocalists, the whispered chanting, and the weird burlesque middle section are all totally congruous with their orthodox death metal aesthetic The female vocalist doesn't sound operatic at all either.
The "criticism" here makes basically zero sense. You insult it as "middlebrow wank" (whatever that's supposed to mean) and automatically discount any merit it has. Basically you're telling me that the variety in the vocal delivery and the contrast in the break section is bad because you personally perceive it as "artsy" for whatever dumb reason.
>I like that you're trying to patronize me because you've spent more time closely listening to a shitty metal song that I painfully trudged through 1.5 times. Anyway they're not all related, and that has nothing to do with which one is the "main riff" you were talking about You've made plenty of pretentious statements yourself, so it's only fair to patronize you. The opening riff is constantly referred to throughout the whole song and is developed very extensively. Listen again.
>That's because the singer is singing. Yeah, they do that sometimes because a musical texture doesn't always have to be needlessly busy. That's dumb. Wanting harmony and countermelody is not "needlessly busy." To be clear, I'm not saying never to have the singer be the focus, but DT relies on LaBrie way too much without good instrumental backing.
>>61555762 >maudlin of the well is definitely more interesting and less cheese than Dream Theater >Unexpect are truly an embarrassing lol-wacky-random "art" band.
...unexpect write much more coherent songs than MOTW and are probably less pretentious since they don't have the astral projection gimmick. You might be distracted by the number of instruments they use, but check this version of Chromatic Chimera https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-rfxZntPzY
>>61556415 what? they sounds a lot like king crimson, more so than most prog metal bands. it's like saying garden wall aren't a prog metal band because they take influence from VDGG instead of the usual Rush influence
>>61555598 what bands in the style do you like? i could rec some
>>61558482 i'll pass. i'm not going to get into AMG-esque arguments about how if you like different music from me you're objectively wrong, nor am i going to insert myself into conversations about genres i am ignorant about. i actually know a decent amount about prog metal and would be happy to talk about it and give recommendations
>>61558479 >Have you ever listened to any film scores for Tim Burton's music before or are you too busy memeing? how else would I draw the comparison the band even look like the stereotypical mallgoth tim burton fanbase >No not even remotely. yeah because this is so far away from Unexpect not like if you put a few canned Unexpect-isms in there it wouldn't sound exactly like them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqqiM_TiiIQ
>>61558609 >how else would I draw the comparison the band even look like the stereotypical mallgoth tim burton fanbase Judging the band purely based off what they look is stupid.
>yeah because this is so far away from Unexpect It is. It literally sounds nothing like Unexpect at all besides superficial things like distorted guitars or the use of female vocals. Please get a pair of ears.
>>61558420 >what? they sounds a lot like king crimson Not really dude, more like dissonant noise rock stuff plus some metal AND folk rock. It's a 10 times more direct, no-frills attitude which prog rock is devoid of.
>>61558862 Not all prog is like that. I could think of lots of prog folk, psych/prog, and krautrock bands who don't have the bombasticness of Yes or whatever. VBE are progressive in the sense that they write technically demanding, extensive songs with lots of melodic development and unusual harmonies and chord progressions - the progarchives definition of prog basically.
>>61558848 >i-it's "mallgoth" so it's bad and anyone who listens to it is uncool!!! Not like I was listening to a couple of songs from mr bungle's cali a day ago I'm so anti-mallgoth why did god put this anti-mallgoth curse on me also it really is mallgoth from the everyday non /mu/ definition and the mr. bungle definition as well
>stop using music as social capital coming from a trip... i... find... that...
>>61558572 >i'm not going to get into AMG-esque arguments about how if you like different music from me you're objectively wrong Excuse me, but I don't remember doing that ever... >nor am i going to insert myself into conversations about genres i am ignorant about This too. When have I ever done that?
>>61559531 Give Nirvana for Mice a closer listen. The climax at the end of the song is probably my favorite Henry Cow moment ever. I feel the same for Unrest, I only like the first song from it, but that doesn't mean it's a bad album.
>>61562429 >Metropolis pt.2 is better shut up That's the album were the shit really starts to appear. The Dance Of Eternity is an absolute monstrosity of a track. I give you that the album has some pretty songs besides that, but this one is the turning point for DT, after this they descend into the deep abyss
>>61565966 It's not prog at all; it's just a ballad. I don't like DT much, but Images and Words is honestly a pretty good album overall. Pull Me Under and Another Day are by far the worst songs on there, but everything else is great.
>>61566022 Hmm. I gave it many tries and I don't get it even discarding those you have Take Your Time, whose pseudo-funk RHCP style at the beginning gets such a resounding nope I kind out tune out for the rest of the track. Metropolis Pt. 1 just kind of sounds ugly most of the time. Learning to Live is adequate. Under a Glass Moon bores me. And Learning to Live pretty has everything I hate about Dream Theater in one song
*shrug* I tried removing all biases of their annoying fanbase and their pretentiousness but I just couldn't enjoy it.
i think Images & Words is one of the best albums ever, emotional, technical and energetic, songs like learning to live and metropolis are probably the best in the genre, but later they started to get worser (with the exception of metropolis pt2) and more technical with the last album being their peak of wankery and pretentiousness.
>>61566224 Eh, I don't really like the DT style of prog too much either, so I can see where you're coming from. I think Images and Words pulls it off though. Take Your Time doesn't really resemble RHCP at all though and writing off that song is silly because I think it's one of the best on the album.
>>61566288 Not sonically, no. But the the basic concept of pseudo-funk(That especially sounds ridiculous in a album that's full on prog metal) is the same. Admittedly it's only one small part but that's the only part that really sticks with me even listening to it multiple times
>>61566509 I don't believe it's inherently bad but the way DT does it is so ridiculously out of place with what was going on. It's a standard instrumental solo by DT but then it seemingly switches to another band. The expletives shouted out in this deep voice only add to this jarring change. By then the instrumentation and vocals go full Micheal Jackson and the track is infinitely ruined for me with unengaging solos and irritating vocals and synths as per the DT modus operandi.
>>61566693 I don't think there's any expletives. I dunno; I like Labrie's vocals in that one little section much more than the usual. He shows off a nice variety, the bass lines are really groovy and I like that part.
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