Name a better Prog Metal band then Dream Theater. Protip. Yo

>>61552349
Beyond Twilight > Dream Theater
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfHPTt_wdRw

It's also hard to name a worse prog band then DT.

I easily can. i don't even really like dream theater though.

Try:
Devin Townsend
Maudlin Of The Well

>>61553642
>maudlin of the Well
>good
fucking cheese-tier """"""""avant""""""" rock

>>61552349
pain of salvation and tool

Voivod
Sigh
Fate's Warning
Cynic
Alchemist

>>61553642
This

Obvious b8 OP, but still I much prefer BTBAM. Goes without saying that I got into them when I was 16, before anyone says it, but I still enjoy them now 4 years later just as much as I did before. Dream Theater are horribly dull for me.

Symphony X
Fates Warning
Queensryche
Crimson Glory
Conception
Watchtower
the list goes on...

Images and Words is god tier, though

>>61552349
one of my least favourite bands

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Literally fedora, the band.

>>61554058
>Images and Words is god tier, though

This
The band really sucks, they've made a vast amount of absolute pure shit songs ( and I tend to say that it has become even worse with the departure of Portnoy), but Images And Words is a great album even if you dislike the genre of prog metal

I used to be a HUGE fan and even saw them live, but they really are a shit band. A parody of the greatest prog bands, who only made a single good album and then a bunch of flawed ones. They are all fantastic musicians but can't write music for shit.

>>61554122
Why do you think that?

>>61552349
I really can't stand their singer
Better ones:
TesseracT
Ne Obliviscaris
The Contortionist
The Hirsch Effekt

Just to name some.

>>61552349
How about name a worse band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM71torFNBQ

>>61554722
>respond to a troll post
>make yourself look like even more of an underage pleb than the troll

>>61552349
Leprous

Between The Buried and Me
Devin Townsend
Protest The Hero
Animals as Leaders
Pain of Salvation
Mandroid Echostar

Haken
Native Construct
Leprous

>>61555245
Coma Ecliptic by BTBAM is easily one of the best prog albums of all time

>>61555370
Coma Ecliptic is literally they're worst release anon.

Did Dream Theater and Meshuggah ruin prog metal for ever?

>>61555480
Meshuggah is good though

>>61555500
They influenced all these shitty chugcore bands though

Prog metal is shit

Metropolis Part 2 is definitely one of the top 20 prog. metal albums ever written desu.

>>61552349
maudlin of the well

>>61555521
>Prog metal is shit

Respectfully disagree, have a nice day anon.

>>61555512
Periphery is more responsible than anything.

>>61552349
It doesn't matter if they're the best of shit. It's like being crowned King Retard and then strutting around because you're the best at being retarded.

>>61555480
in terms of influence, yes. But Dream Theater got off a couple great albums and influence a couple great bands, and Meshuggah has some okay stuff.

Most good "prog" metal nowadays is actually hidden in black, death, and power metal bands that people don't usually label explicitly as prog. It makes sense, since originally metal was hugely influenced by prog rock (see: Sabbath, Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden)

>>61555569
I've actually been developing a massive softspot for proggy metalcore lately. I have no idea why, it's just kinda happening.

>>61553658
i really love part the second. i dont really care about genres, but maudlin of the well is definitely more interesting and less cheese than Dream Theater, which is a band that everyone should've grown out of by freshman year high school. their lead songwriter (John Petrucci) even admitted that he doesn't actively listen to music aside from the radio in the car, which explains why the band have basically been repeating the same Rush copypasta garbage for over 20 years, and every now and then mixing in some of the latest pop metal trends from bands like Muse.

for the record i was a tremendous prog fag in high school so i know what it feels like to have to defend this shit band. you have to face reality.
>>61553975
Unexpect are truly an embarrassing lol-wacky-random "art" band. technically amazing, but just purely bad music.

outfedora'd ya all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QeIgsBQTHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YzldB6wFqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2mZVOd0jWY

>>61555762
I've already gone through my post-high school "growing up" phase and I feel confident enough to freely pick the sounds I like again. Images and Words is full of legitimately brilliant music and it doesn't matter that their later stuff is boring. Even though I've gotten into way more music (including more respected prog and metal bands) since I first listened to it, I like I&W more as an adult than I did as a teenager.

and I don't think motW is significantly less cheesy than DT. A prog or metal fan who has a problem with "cheese" is just ignorant, since both genres are built on hyperbole and melodrama.

Ved Buens Ende

>>61555762
>Unexpect are truly an embarrassing lol-wacky-random "art" band.
That's not true at all. Their songs are very structured and far, far from random.

>>61556135
t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m copypasta is also very structured and predetermined, but it's still obnoxious

>>61556335
>it's obnoxious because it hurts my feelings
Sure whatever. Unexpect are far more creative and interesting than Dream Theater ever was.

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>tfw Dream Theaters newest track was actually sick as fuck and they're return to form might be right around the corner.

I never thought I'd ever become legitimately excited for a DT album, but I am.

>>61556109
What? Hardly a prog act.

>>61552349
Protest the Hero is the better band.
>Better singer, more range and emotions
>Fluid yet complex part
>Not having a cheesy synth sounding behind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z29basl7Lcs

>>61556382
New track from the new album?

I'll admit that after A Dramatic Turn of Events I kind shut out DT, but do you have a link? I'm kinda interested.

>>61556369
I'm into actual avant-garde and experimental music, so I'm not impressed by any of the mediocre bullshit Unexpect pulls. Meanwhile, their music doesn't provide ANY of the shit I actually look for in metal (e.g. riffs, immediacy) because they're more interested in piling up layers of abstract crap than writing rock music.

Meanwhile, DT at their best wrote some ass-tearing Fates Warning-style metal and embellished it with interesting harmony and cool virtuoso solos. It's still not "art music", but it's a hell of a lot smarter and more exciting than Unexpect.

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>>61552349
What did he mean by this?

>>61556547
Have you actually listened to unexpect? They aren't very abstract like at all. They are extremely riff based. Far, far moreso than Dream Theater ever was..

>>61555480
Meshuggah is amazing, but they really need to go further experiment their sound. Even If I have some of their records and still think they are one-of-a-kind, lots of people are trying to get their sound and they need to change.

But still, I bought the "I" Ep remastered, and blown away every fuckin time.
I also think their last album had some great songs. Still one of my favs.

Slow Meshuggah is Best Meshuggah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9LpMZuBEMk

>>61556525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdPn1mCmqoE

Even the /metal/ general is kinda optimistic about it.

It isn't Images and Words or Metropolis Part 2- tier, but after the absolute abomination that was their self-titled this is very much acceptable.

In case you don't know, their self-titled legitimately sounded like A7X mixed with Skillet.

Dream Theater might just be one of the most inconsistent bands of all time.

At their best they've written masterpieces and at their worst they've written abominations.

>>61556571
they're not great riffs, and there are a dozen of them per song punctuated by dumb genre-jumping nonsense.

these are riffs:
https://youtu.be/OeU6Sw_1dBA?t=255
https://youtu.be/SGRgAULYgWE?t=76

and when they're not playing sick riffs they're still good at maintaining the type of rhythmic groove that makes rock enjoyable

>>61556699
amen

I like Sikth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTIkjwizm10

>>61556582
Koloss is probably the only album I've listened to so far, that has made me headbang involuntarily/subconciously. Fekken great stuff.

Om the topic of DT, the last two albums may not have been as interesting as their earlier works, but they're still good albums.
I feel as if DT is one of the few bands that use odd time signatures and meters because it fits and is appropriate, and isn't just for show, or to create and odd rhythm. It's great that people mention meshuggah, because they're sort of on the opposite end - weird shit squeezed into quarter note bars (rather than "proper" sounding riffs laid out in odd meters)

>>61556782
Dream theater sometimes pulls out a decent riff, but why on earth did you pick Pull me Under of all things? That riff is just some okay, syncopated chugging and not anything really special. The thing with Dream Theater is that they have a ton of chugging and filler chords and are often really simple and pretty bland for a prog band.

The main riff of Feasting Fools is way better and much more interesting. There's nothing wrong with genre shifts. Unexpect does them very well and incorporates them into the song. It's fantastic, unique prog metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRApOOetSco

>>61557002
which is the main riff? There are like 10 retarded Gorguts riffs in this song and the girl just screamed and distorted the mic and I'm starting to get a headache.

like I said, all of the dumb artsy shit they throw into this song distracts and detracts from what could have been competent death metal. There's way to much stop-and-go. Making a bad metal song would be justified if the artsy shit was actually interesting, but it's not (because I've heard enough artsy shit to recognize that these people are just illiterate manchildren/womanchildren)

A riff doesn't have to be busy to be great, and I guess a lot of more naive fans of prog don't understand that. The riff at the timestamp I linked in Pull Me Under is top class, and most of the others in that song are too. Those aren't really good examples of DT's stereotypical chugging riffs, which I agree have become overused but were a cool idea to begin with. I have no idea what you mean by "filler chords"

>>61557295
>which is the main riff?
Are you serious? Most of the riffs in that song are obviously based around the opening riffs. If you can't see something as simple as that, I just don't really know what to say.

>There are like 10 retarded Gorguts riffs
Gorguts never sounded anything like that song. Have you ever listened to Gorguts?

There's like nothing artsy about that song at all. I'm sorry that I have to pull this card, but it's pretty obvious that you just don't know what you're talking about.

>I have no idea what you mean by "filler chords"
Just strumming long power chords during verses instead of playing an interesting melodic line.

>>61557382
>There's like nothing artsy about that song at all.
oh yeah, the lady opera singer, the dialogue between vocalists, the whispered chanting, and the weird burlesque middle section are all totally congruous with their orthodox death metal aesthetic. I guess there's technically nothing artsy about that if by artsy you mean artistic, since it's all middlebrow wank.

>Most of the riffs in that song are obviously based around the opening riffs. If you can't see something as simple as that, I just don't really know what to say.
I like that you're trying to patronize me because you've spent more time closely listening to a shitty metal song that I painfully trudged through 1.5 times. Anyway they're not all related, and that has nothing to do with which one is the "main riff" you were talking about

>Just strumming long power chords during verses instead of playing an interesting melodic line.
That's because the singer is singing. Yeah, they do that sometimes because a musical texture doesn't always have to be needlessly busy.

>>61552349
I wasn't aware that prog metal was a competition. None of the good bands even resemble each other.

If you're making a direction comparison between Dream Theater and another band it's because that band is literally copypasta and therefore sucks.

>>61557940
>oh yeah, the lady opera singer, the dialogue between vocalists, the whispered chanting, and the weird burlesque middle section are all totally congruous with their orthodox death metal aesthetic
The female vocalist doesn't sound operatic at all either.

The "criticism" here makes basically zero sense. You insult it as "middlebrow wank" (whatever that's supposed to mean) and automatically discount any merit it has. Basically you're telling me that the variety in the vocal delivery and the contrast in the break section is bad because you personally perceive it as "artsy" for whatever dumb reason.

>I like that you're trying to patronize me because you've spent more time closely listening to a shitty metal song that I painfully trudged through 1.5 times. Anyway they're not all related, and that has nothing to do with which one is the "main riff" you were talking about
You've made plenty of pretentious statements yourself, so it's only fair to patronize you. The opening riff is constantly referred to throughout the whole song and is developed very extensively. Listen again.

>That's because the singer is singing. Yeah, they do that sometimes because a musical texture doesn't always have to be needlessly busy.
That's dumb. Wanting harmony and countermelody is not "needlessly busy." To be clear, I'm not saying never to have the singer be the focus, but DT relies on LaBrie way too much without good instrumental backing.

>>61555245
>>61555275
lol

>>61555512
>meshuggah is good
>all the bands that are influenced by meshuggah but have actual melody are bad
what the fuck is up with this pseudo-hipster mentality

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>>61552349

>>61558275
dude you like fucking unexpect (nightwish-lite) shut the fuck up

youre just as obnoxious as avant-math-g nowadays if you didnt realize

>>61555762
>maudlin of the well is definitely more interesting and less cheese than Dream Theater
>Unexpect are truly an embarrassing lol-wacky-random "art" band.

...unexpect write much more coherent songs than MOTW and are probably less pretentious since they don't have the astral projection gimmick. You might be distracted by the number of instruments they use, but check this version of Chromatic Chimera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-rfxZntPzY

it develops its themes very smoothly

>>61552349
Tool and/or meshuggah. Call me an idiot but there are hardly any better prog bands than those two. Dream theater is pretty lame desu

>>61558325
>unexpect is nightwish-lite
You've obviously never listened to either bands.

>>61558325
nightwish don't have riffs and their instrumentation is just bombastic hollywood crap so there's no point of comparison

>>61552349
Opeth is GOAT prog metal

>>61558378
lol

>>61556415
what? they sounds a lot like king crimson, more so than most prog metal bands. it's like saying garden wall aren't a prog metal band because they take influence from VDGG instead of the usual Rush influence

>>61555598
what bands in the style do you like? i could rec some

>>61558346
its pretty much the exact same thing but unexpect just listen to mr bungle and are proggered!!! up

both are ridiculously gimmicky tim burton-tier bullshit but you seem to enjoy your circus metal so

>>61558330
lol that literally just sounds like tim burton music

>>61558451
>its pretty much the exact same thing
No not even remotely.

>lol that literally just sounds like tim burton music
Have you ever listened to any film scores for Tim Burton's music before or are you too busy memeing?

>>61558420
Please stop your trip.

>>61558451
>lol that literally just sounds like tim burton music
and? if you don't like their aesthetic that's fine, but saying they're poor songwriters is just an ignorant statement.

>>61558479
>music
movies*

>>61558482
i'll pass. i'm not going to get into AMG-esque arguments about how if you like different music from me you're objectively wrong, nor am i going to insert myself into conversations about genres i am ignorant about. i actually know a decent amount about prog metal and would be happy to talk about it and give recommendations

>>61558479
>Have you ever listened to any film scores for Tim Burton's music before or are you too busy memeing?
how else would I draw the comparison the band even look like the stereotypical mallgoth tim burton fanbase
>No not even remotely.
yeah because this is so far away from Unexpect not like if you put a few canned Unexpect-isms in there it wouldn't sound exactly like them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqqiM_TiiIQ

>>61558609
>how else would I draw the comparison the band even look like the stereotypical mallgoth tim burton fanbase
Judging the band purely based off what they look is stupid.

>yeah because this is so far away from Unexpect
It is. It literally sounds nothing like Unexpect at all besides superficial things like distorted guitars or the use of female vocals. Please get a pair of ears.

>>61558609
yep, typical image-obsessed /mu/tant.
>i-it's "mallgoth" so it's bad and anyone who listens to it is uncool!!!

stop using music as social capital

>>61558420
>what? they sounds a lot like king crimson
Not really dude, more like dissonant noise rock stuff plus some metal AND folk rock. It's a 10 times more direct, no-frills attitude which prog rock is devoid of.

>>61558862
Not all prog is like that. I could think of lots of prog folk, psych/prog, and krautrock bands who don't have the bombasticness of Yes or whatever. VBE are progressive in the sense that they write technically demanding, extensive songs with lots of melodic development and unusual harmonies and chord progressions - the progarchives definition of prog basically.

>>61558848
>i-it's "mallgoth" so it's bad and anyone who listens to it is uncool!!!
Not like I was listening to a couple of songs from mr bungle's cali a day ago I'm so anti-mallgoth why did god put this anti-mallgoth curse on me
also it really is mallgoth from the everyday non /mu/ definition and the mr. bungle definition as well

>stop using music as social capital
coming from a trip... i... find... that...

>>61558992
There's no melodic development, like, at all, hah.

Is there any prog metal band that is influenced by Henry Cow? (the good Henry Cow albums: the red one)

>>61559021
>from the everyday non /mu/ definition
is "mallgoth" actually a thing outside /mu/ though?

and the trip is for making my shares more easy to catalog in the archive

>>61559122
sleepytime gorilla museum

>>61558572
>i'm not going to get into AMG-esque arguments about how if you like different music from me you're objectively wrong
Excuse me, but I don't remember doing that ever...
>nor am i going to insert myself into conversations about genres i am ignorant about
This too. When have I ever done that?

>>61559388
>i'm not going to get into AMG-esque arguments about how if you like different music from me you're objectively wrong
you do

>>61559388
>nor am i going to insert myself into conversations about genres i am ignorant about
you do this every thread

>>61559351
>is "mallgoth" actually a thing outside /mu/ though?
Yes. Both IRL and on the internet, but on both places the word has a different meaning.

>>61559122
All Henry Cow albums are good though.

>>61559435
Can you cite me or give an example of when I have ever done that?

>>61559450
theyre not legend and unrest make me want to wheeze

>>61559531
Give Nirvana for Mice a closer listen. The climax at the end of the song is probably my favorite Henry Cow moment ever.
I feel the same for Unrest, I only like the first song from it, but that doesn't mean it's a bad album.

>>61558848
>"stop using music as social capital"
>listens to the epitome of middlebrow faux-avant-garde bullshit
haha

>>61560375
Unexpect has never pretended to be anything more than what they are. Get over yourself and your meaningless buzzwords.

>>61560419
Oh, and some artists do?

>>61553959
Wow those bands are so obscure they must be good

>>61560438
Of course some do. For the infamous example, look at Jari from Wintersun who billed his shit as "Extreme majestic technical epic melodic metal."

>>61560419
that doesn't mean they aren't full of themselves, and their fans are equally pretentious cunts

>>61560494
[citation needed]

>>61560458
None of those are obscure, and I know that without even being a fan of progressive metal.

>>61560419
>[band] has never pretended to be anything more than what they are.
I think that goes for most bands, really.

>>61560521
>I think that goes for most bands, really.
Sure, I just hate irrational backlash based around nothing substantial and stupid perceptions.

>>61560506
If you want me to find you a critique of this band from a reputable source then I'm gonna have a hard time because only children and avant-teens find their music worth listening to

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i like Images and words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and Octavarium

>>61560611
>all fans of [band] are pretentious cunts because I say so
>stop liking what I don't like
Pathetic

Ne Obliviscaris
Pain Of Salvation
Thy Catafalque
Leprous
Negură Bunget

>>61552349
Opeth
>>61554158
Metropolis pt.2 is better shut up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgAc7ekYmVA
great song t.b.h.
For some reason I've always associated fans of DT with fat christian Filipinos, anyone else feel the same?

>>61562561
>with fat christian Filipinos, anyone else feel the same?
absolutely, somehow

>>61552349
name a worse genre than prog metal
>protip: you can't

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>>61562307
This guy knows what's up

Listening to new Thy Catafalque tught now, pretty good stuff

>>61552349
Agree to disagree

>>61562429
>Metropolis pt.2 is better shut up
That's the album were the shit really starts to appear. The Dance Of Eternity is an absolute monstrosity of a track. I give you that the album has some pretty songs besides that, but this one is the turning point for DT, after this they descend into the deep abyss

>>61560542
Octavarium had Panic Attack, and there was also The Count of Tuscanny; both are great tracks. Oh, and Six Degrees is a great album as a whole too.

rush
primus

>>61552349
Neckbeard: The Band cannot be the best anything.

>>61553642
>devin townsend
>AAARGGGHHHHH HOW LOUD CNA I SING???? AARGGHHHH

[spoiler]I went to Z^2 at Royal Albert. Great show. Nothing compared to DT, though.[/spoiler]

>>61555275
This

>>61558420
>what bands in the style do you like? i could rec some

Like I'm not talking straight up progressive metalcore, but traditional metalcore with some proggy bits/influences (August Burns Red, Northlane, The Devil Wears Prada's EPs

>>61554158
>Images and Words
>great album
>this fucking ungodly sophisti-pop/prog combination exists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYtiDCXLAcQ

>>61565966
It's not prog at all; it's just a ballad. I don't like DT much, but Images and Words is honestly a pretty good album overall. Pull Me Under and Another Day are by far the worst songs on there, but everything else is great.

>>61553642
maudlin of the Well is far beyond the genre of progressive metal, you cant label them in the same genre as bands like queensryche, between the buried, etc.

>>61566102
>maudlin of the Well is far beyond the genre of progressive metal
That's pretty pretentious m8. They're good, but not that good.

>>61553664
>tool
this

>>61566102
but their literally avant-prog metal

>>61566167
>their
mong detected

>>61566022
Hmm. I gave it many tries and I don't get it even discarding those you have Take Your Time, whose pseudo-funk RHCP style at the beginning gets such a resounding nope I kind out tune out for the rest of the track. Metropolis Pt. 1 just kind of sounds ugly most of the time. Learning to Live is adequate. Under a Glass Moon bores me. And Learning to Live pretty has everything I hate about Dream Theater in one song

*shrug* I tried removing all biases of their annoying fanbase and their pretentiousness but I just couldn't enjoy it.

i think Images & Words is one of the best albums ever, emotional, technical and energetic, songs like learning to live and metropolis are probably the best in the genre, but later they started to get worser (with the exception of metropolis pt2) and more technical with the last album being their peak of wankery and pretentiousness.

>>61566235
>worser

Don't worry, you'll hopefully grow out of Dream Theater when you turn 18

>>61566224
Eh, I don't really like the DT style of prog too much either, so I can see where you're coming from. I think Images and Words pulls it off though. Take Your Time doesn't really resemble RHCP at all though and writing off that song is silly because I think it's one of the best on the album.

anyone else mildly hyped for Native Construct, aka the second coming of Dream Theater

They even went to Berklee too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99dHD9oWfU

>>61566288
Not sonically, no. But the the basic concept of pseudo-funk(That especially sounds ridiculous in a album that's full on prog metal) is the same. Admittedly it's only one small part but that's the only part that really sticks with me even listening to it multiple times

After 15 years of listening to dream theater, I'm starting to think that Awake is better than Images and Words

Am I retarded?

>>61566388
worst band ever

>>61566401
I don't see what's wrong with incorporating funk influences on a prog album.

>>61566482
i&w is better than awake, but you are not retarded, awake is one of their best, with metropolis pt2, the rest are shit with the exception of some songs.

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>no mention of pic related

lmao kk

>>61566601
Six Degrees is as good as Metropolis Part 2 and better than Awake.

>>61566646
is it progressive metal?

>>61566509
I don't believe it's inherently bad but the way DT does it is so ridiculously out of place with what was going on. It's a standard instrumental solo by DT but then it seemingly switches to another band. The expletives shouted out in this deep voice only add to this jarring change. By then the instrumentation and vocals go full Micheal Jackson and the track is infinitely ruined for me with unengaging solos and irritating vocals and synths as per the DT modus operandi.

>>61566667
you are right, but i dont consider it one of their best because of the first part, it sucks except for the glass prision

>>61556625
>The selftitled
"Shit" doesn't even begin to capture it. It sounds ok live, tho. The new song sounds decent, though the lyrics are still really trite.

>>61566646
Not metal and inferior to The Fall of Troy (they're roughly in the same scene).

>>61566667

Six Degrees the song is fucking masterful, but the shit on disc 1, especially the abortion song that's a total, shameless, pointless ripoff of 46&2 brings the album down for me

>>61566693
I don't think there's any expletives. I dunno; I like Labrie's vocals in that one little section much more than the usual. He shows off a nice variety, the bass lines are really groovy and I like that part.

>>61566744
Thomas Erak is a goat

>>61566993
Yeah, I saw them live recently and they kicked ass. Doppelganger is one of my favorite albums of all time.

>>61566719
The first part is even better than the second one.

>>61566751
The first four songs are great, it's just that the abortion song has some filler, but that's it.
Also, just out of curiosity: are DT for or against abortion?

>>61567049
Manipulator for me. The composition is pure imagination

>>61567082

James probably is against because he's catholic as fuck

>>61567117
Manipulator is super good. A lot of songs go hard.