how long does it take to learn this fucking thing

15 minutes

>>61550481
Years. You may aswell learn an instrument.

>>61550481
Long enough to stop being a pretentious fuck and download FL

Don't bother with that pleb shit. Pro tools is infinitely better and if you can't drop 700 or whatever up front you can subscribe to it for 20 shekels a month

Unless you already bought the full version of gaybleton LMAO

>>61550534
>buying software
it's 2015 cmon

>>61550534
>protools
>good with VSTs

>>61550481
Don't be a pussy, stop being afraid to make stuff that sounds like shit, and work daily and you'll have it down in two years

>>61550481
not too long to get a good enough grip to start.
i went from fuck me to making what i wanted in a couple of days (two hours here, maybe three there). find a video - i might have flipped through the manual once or twice

BUT

i leanred protools in school, had a cheap program like cakewalk that i made some band demos in, had a cracked version of cubase ages ago . . . . so i know the basics of sound editing software and as a musician making music i know what i want and how to make it.
if you're starting from scratch . . . .dunno.

>>61550551
The fuck are you on about nigga

>>61550550
I'd pirate the heck out of pro tools but it requires iLok

Its worth 20 a month IMHO

>>61550551
>what is kontakt

>>61550592
whats an ilok?

any tutorial reccs

>>61550481
Nothing in it will make sense unless you've already been producing for years. Better off starting with FL to be honest.

>decided i was going to make music
>bought logic pro
>been 6 months, haven't used it once

>using a daw for anything other than recording and editing
>not learning a real instrument instead

>>61551162
i would but i only have time at night and i don't want to wake everyone up by practicing

>>61550481
fuck everyone in this thread.

Ableton is amazing. As with any instrument, just keep working at it. It took me about half a year to make anything that even sounded halfway decent and a year after that, I have finally gotten to the point where I can make stuff that I really think is pretty good and that has gotten some positive feedback from people other than my friends.

And it was all worth it. After having tried Reason 8 and FL Studio fairly extensively, and having done work in Logic (which, to be fair, is awesome for mastering) and Protools (which, to be fair, is awesome for recording) I can definitely say Ableton is the best DAW for just straight up off-the-dome creation. There is simply nothing else that lets you just slam out MIDI and track automation like Live's arrangement view. It is one big happy music sandbox for you to play around in.

>>61551255
get an electric instrument + small USB audio interface

>>61551574
This man speaks the truth, I got ableton about two years ago and dove in knowing nothing now when I'm making tunes it's honestly like an extension of myself
For production and recording logic and protools far outstrip it but for the musician looking to jam and get ideas down its perfect

>>61550556
He's lying. I've been doing this for 4 years.

>>61551574
> I have finally gotten to the point where I can make stuff that I really think is pretty good and that has gotten some positive feedback from people other than my friends

wanna guess how many more years it will take before people will pay for it?

welcome to producer limbo.

>>61550522
that feel when you don't have a PC ;^)

>>61551255
guitar + usb audio interface + headphones + cracked daw + cracked & free VSTs

>>61551669
oh bruv I'm in school for mixing and mastering
I'm not delusional, I know how stacked the odds are against me making it as an artist

>>61550481
depends on you
grimes did it in 2 years to make aoty

>>61551690
You can make a cheap DIY usb audio interface from an old headset. Works okay for only spending $2.50

The key is not to rely on the program. Producing song with live instruments is a lot easier and sounds a lot better tbqh, especially if you're not a great producer as it is

>>61551920
yeah but you will never, ever be able to do the same things with a live instrument that you can with synths

I am not against live instruments at all, mind you, the shit takes skill to play. I love listening to skilled instrumental artists. But "sounds a lot better" is bullshit.
they're different, neither method is inherently "better"
but synths are a hell of a lot more versatile.

All kinds of people will say something like "No! You have to use this!" when talking about DAWs. But really, it's not about the how. It's about the final product. The how is just a preference. Check out some tutorials and/or read the documentation. For flstudio seamlessr (on YouTube) makes a shit ton of useful and interesting tutorials. Talks more about the why rather than the how.

>>61551947
Lucky for me I've been playing keys for 15 years. Record synth part as midi, quantize that shit, and do any quick fixes. Maybe it's some ridiculously fast arpeggio? Just slow down the tempo and play it. Really saves so much time in place of double clicking midi notes and doing all that copying and pasting. Plus the velocity changes often give a nice variety. Really though, taking the time to thoroughly learn piano saves time recording in the long run and makes it all worth it.

>>61551574
this is me:>>61550561
so fuck you.

renoise is the patrician daw

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Its not so much the program that's difficult, (though it is), learning production is hard as fuck too. You will have many sticking points you won't be able to find a way out of.

The best advice would be to learn as much as you can about ableton but if you want to create music for others to hear, you really need a mentor /producer, or pay a mix / mastering engineer. If you don't get real life help you will forever be not quite good enough.

depends on what you already know. years if you know nothing, months to weeks if you already know stuff.

>>61550520
fuck off.

>>61550576
he's right though.

>>61552522
lol what are you talking about needing a mentor... its not 1985 there are no trade secrets lose that mindset everything you want to know is on the internet

>>61552522
>you really need a mentor
yeah son, youtube.

>>61552564
>>61552577
Have you guys put out any quality tracks? I rest my case.

>>61552590
>I rest my case.
fuck you faggot, at least allow a response.

>>61552577
>>61552564

I'd love to agree with you. On the other hand, take it from me, having someone (especially a friend, like I did, who will be patient with your blind fumbling) who you can talk to in person and who knows the software extensively is waay different than just hopping on Youtube.
Youtube videos don't tell you things like
"don't automate the track volume"

>>61552616
yeah a producer friend who is better than you helps, but it's not essential when starting out.

>>61552550
Holy shit, you mad buddy? I just suggested he learn an instrument so he has an idea how music works before he fritters away years on a program like ableton, then having to adapt to new versions and by the time he has learned how to produce something of worth on it that style of music he was producing is dead in the water.

>>61552692
how about you answer OP's original question without being a pretentious asshole.

>>61552692
all you need is to learn piano

>>61552729
Lmfao holy shit, how was telling him the fucking truth being pretentious? It takes years to learn how to use ableton properly, I suggested learning an instrument because it's a useful alternative that can help him understand how music actually works. Fuck off dickhead

>>61552692
>that style of music he was producing is dead in the water

oh you mean like rock has been for over a decade

>>61552754
it takes years to learn how to use any instrument properly, depending on how often you practice

but with Ableton, I feel like your creativity is much less limited by manual dexterity. Not everyone can be a shred nasty guitarist or a concert pianist, even with years of practice, but anyone with a real musical vision can be a good producer

>>61552755
When did he mention rock music? There are plenty of creative things you can do with guitar that isnt rock music though, you can get some pedals and fiddle around and create your own sound, most music that is produced has guitar tones and parts to it. Have fun doing what every other middle class white boy in america and europe is doing though buddy: sitting in a bedroom for hours trying to wrap their head around a program that is going to keep changing and/or go out of vogue before they can understand how it works properly and have to learn more shit. "Producers" these days are a fucking dime a dozen.

>>61552778
You can start creating fairly good music after a year and a bit of playing if you practise a couple of hours every day. You have clearly never put in any effort to play an instrument. Nobody shreds or writes concertos these days anyway

>>61550550

2016*

>>61550556
this is awesome.
"don't be afraid to make stuff that sounds like shit."
that is boss as fuck. I have seen so many people get discouraged because their first two or three (or 12) projects come out sounding like garbage.

That's like picking up a guitar for the first time and expecting to be Tom Morello after two days of practice.
Make a lot of shitty, noisy, crap music. "Being bad at something is the first step to being sorta good at something."

You rock, dude.

LEARN PIANO. don't waste your time with anything else MAYBE bass because samplepacks never have bass how I want them.

>>61552846
lol seeing as I played trombone for six years and auditioned guitar for Berklee (and, for that matter, all the other schools I applied to)

plus recently picked up piano

...maybe you're just full of shit?


>>61552829
he didn't
my point is shit goes out of vogue.
however, EDM right now is where rock was in the 70s. It's not going anywhere. And Ableton has maintained pretty similar controls between Live 8 and Live 9, they're almost interchangeable actually except 9 has some cool new tools. It's not as hard as you're making it out to be to keep up with shit.

>>61552856
But you only need a whammy to be Tom Morelllo.

Besides you're REALLY gonna sit there and tell me producers are a dime a dozen and fucking guitarists are not. Really. You are REALLY gonna say that with a straight face.

whoever said to learn piano/keyboards is on the right track at least though, it helps a fuck ton with developing your musical understanding and it's worth knowing even as a producer. I severely regret not learning that shit earlier

>>61552892
>auditioned

lot of bad assumptions in this thread. op just asked how long it takes to learn the program. doesn't take long from a technical standpoint if you spend a few hours on it everyday and have some good tuts available.

learning how to make music is obviously gonna take a lot longer cause it takes more than knowing how a daw works to make music.

plenty of my friends who make very... experimental music don't use daws and some only half ass it to suite their needs. i highly doubt the op is trying to create the next big hit. making music can be a great hobby if you're not a pretentious faggot like some of the people in this thread.

>>61550481
If you already have a good understanding about producing it should only take around 6 months to get good at using ableton. Whereas if you have no producing experience it will take MUCH longer.

to make music with it? about 6 months.

to LEARN it? much longer. been using for more than a decade and still learning new things from time to time.

>>61550556
wow holy shit actual good advice on /mu/

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It's pretty easy desu senpai.

Get a bunch of dumb loops from the internet and fuck around with different arrangements on the timeline. Cut and paste loops, put random effects on whatever and fuck around with the effect amount to see what it does, repeat repeat.

The only learning curve I had was figuring out where everything was and what the hotkeys were.

Read the fucking manual you double nigger.

>>61550522
>Ye ole FL meme.

From my own personal experience: I downloaded it in February of last year since my favorite producers all use Ableton. It is by far the hardest computer program that I've ever used, and I've spent many days where I've left an Ableton session with a headache. My only other music experience is playing guitar and bass at a basic level. Its definitely not easy.

>>61550592
I pirated it as soon as I got my Mac. I didn't need any extra programs. I also pirated the Mac version of Fl Studio, I haven't touched Pro tos since.

I also have ableton, but fuck that shit.

>>61550481
I got the basics down pretty quick, but the big thing is that ableton can be pretty counterintuitive. it may take some time to get used to some of the controls.
anyway, watching some tutorials is recommended for the basics, from there on I'd say just try stuff out. if you're not sure what a button does google it. try sampling some stuff and downloading vst's. it takes some time but it's pretty fun and you can get some great sounding stuff out of it.

>>61551574
whats the best way to get these sandbox sounds into a recording?

i have been using logic to track my guitars but ableton has dope ass synth patches and effects and stuff, and i love playing around with those, where logic doesn't have the same extent of synth stuff. should i just learn to track my guitars in ableton and record everything there?

>>61555263
Yes. All you need to do is:
>make a track
>configure your input source
>click IN on your track
>record

>>61555334
or should i just download some synth vst and continue recording and playing synths in logic

>>61555344
Didn't you say that you like ableton's synths?

>>61555363
yeah but i've never downloaded any external vsts. the stock ones in ableton are all i know.

>>61555378
Then download some?

I'm confused here - are you looking for a reason to not use ableton or something?

>>61555394
ableton just seems really confusing when i'm trying to record. logic is so much more straight forward.

but i like to fire ableton and mess around with synths and effects and stuff with my midi keyboard.

i just get lost when it comes to trying to record a whole song.

idk im new at this

>>61555418
>ableton just seems really confusing when i'm trying to record.
>>61555334

>>61552896
And a fuckton of pedals and effects.

My advice would be to get the flstudio trial, learn your way around a few vsts on there, 3 osc is a nice starting point, use the preset sounds from the packs to learn what does what (filters, automation, compression etc), maybe use Edison to learn a bit of sampling. Genuinely the fastest way to start banging out tunes

>>61551681
then Logic.

>>61550663
what is completely accessible via ableton as well