How much do you think your average P4k buzzband/artist makes in a year? you know people like St.vincent or Mac Demarco, i just want to know if indie music stardom is worth pursuing or not.
A few years ago Sara Quin during concert mentioned the tax bracket she was in, people inferred from that she probably makes about 130k per year after taxes. Though keep in mind this was a few years ago, the band gained some notoriety since then, also she splits the bands earning with her twin sister.
Tegan and Sara are about as big as indie-pop gets. So a popular solo act like Annie Clark might make 200k+ per year. Basically, they make what an ivy league graduate could be expected to make.
So yeah, they make bank.
>pursuing a music career for the money
You're gonna have a shit time if you think this is a good idea. It's immensely difficult to make it as a musician, even as a smaller non-mainstream act.
>why would he put that enormous effort in if it doesn't pay
Because making music is what he wants to do with his life, supposedly. If he's that concerned with a fat paycheck it's probably not for him. It's pretty common knowledge that being a musician is not safe at all from a fiscal perspective.
yeah, but he could take his music career in different directions
he could quit his job/school and rehearse and play as many shows as possible, or he could play it safe and do shit out of his bedroom to see if people like his stuff on bandcamp or whatever
One of my favorite bands, Lucero. They have put out a bunch of studio albums over the years and have a decent little group of loyal fans. Have been on big labels, been dropped, recorded their own stuff. Had songs in movies, TV shows, etc...
They tour like 9-10 months out of the year and their frontman Ben Nichols always says it's the only way to pay the bills. I'm sure all of the members are clearing 6 figures a year these days, but they work their asses off for it.
There's no direction that would guarantee job security and steady income, let alone a 100k+ yearly salary.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from being a musician, I'm just saying the odds of turning it into a profitable career are extremely tiny. I know people involved in the music industry. All of them are extremely talented and make great music, but can't pay the rent from music and have to have day jobs to pay the bills. Making it as a musician is more about luck and publicity/getting your name out there than talent and hard work, unfortunately.
Also in the last couple years, the Quinn twins have said multiple times that they treat their music "like a job" and that while not being their first intention, one of the main intentions for them continuing to make music is to make money, so their situation is probably less common, especially where most other indie bands are less willing or able to market themselves to they extent the Quinns do
Living in an area with tons of bars/restaurants and lots of tourists, there's a handful of dudes who do OK just playing a guitar and doing lots of covers. Takes them awhile to get in good at all the bars/restaurants and they gotta play 6-7 nights a week.
Most of the live performers do have day jobs though.
If gigs almost every night for at least $100/gig was guaranteed, I would take it over a real job.
Going back to the Tegan and Sara example, they said they were basically living on gas station/convenience store food for the first 5 years and had to budget strictly to avoid getting real jobs. Being a commercially successful musician it seems is more about making the right connections rather than outright talent.
True, not to mention the quinns twin gimmick appeal and being small qt andro dykes has lead to them getting extra attention than if they were just two regular sisters. Not saying they aren't talented, just it's the little things hat can draw initial interest. Plus they got already successful musicians to produce their records like Death Cab
Lmao fool. MOST dudes wouldn't eat pussy unless they had to kill time. If black dudes don't eat pussy it's probably because we don't have to kill time.
Also I love eatin the pussy.
Time to kill? Like you only eat the pussy if you want the experience to last longer than 5 minutes?
But i feel ya, fuck eatin the pussy unless you really tryin to show the girl you're willing to work. And that's a bad idea most of the time
i play music professionally and i also have a day job.. last year i played about 150 nights and i made just barely over $11,000.00
music pays shit..
*if* you played every night of the year (which is about as unlikely as it is impossible) and *if* you made $100.00 every night you played, you'd only make $36,500.00 a year which is pretty low, especially considering that anywhere you'd have to live to play that often would be a popular urban area where just rent would be pretty expensive
*shrug* i never got into this to get rich
I'd take $36.5k/year tax-free over my $55k/year job to play music every night, at least at this point in my life. Playing covers isn't going to take you anywhere though.
I would love to be in a band and just be able to pay the bills by playing music. Playing live is so much fun. Unfortunately, you have to go through a lot of bullshit and uncertainty to get to this point. It's nice getting a paycheck every Friday and not having to worry about rent.
>Playing live is so much fun
yea man.. it's what we live for.. it's all about that juice yo.. on my nights off, i try to go out and listen to friends and sit in if the opportunity comes up which it often does
More people should start a band just for the hope to play live one day... It's one of the best feelings ever. It helps to feed your ego haha.
I miss my band, one day I gotta find some time and get another one going. I hate public speaking and big crowds, but I never got nervous playing a gig. I play drums so I'm always in the back anyway. And there's something special about having the lights on you while everybody around is enjoying what you spent months and years creating.
mgmt is on columbia nigga. dont be mistaken those shits be makin the big bux. I had some credible ties to grizzly bear back when veckatimest came out and they made about 70k a piece that year.
I'm with this guy. but I only played about 70 days last year and got like 7,500. It's a jazz band and we often get paid a good bit from high scale places but no one gives a fuck and there's not enough of these places for any of us to do it for a living. One guy is an accountant, the other some regional manager of some shit.
it's really for the love of playing. if you get lucky and people like it enough, that's just a bonus. (a really nice bonus)
Lucky you then. I'll be on stage, not even for long, in less than 48 hours, and I'm totally shitting myself. I know what I have to play by heart, everyone else does too, but damn. I already feel my stomach killing me, my head hurting, being somewhere between vomiting, shitting and passing out while sweating intensely.
i guess everybody plays music for different reasons
i am also a jazz musician
i can't really put it into words - it's what i have to do; it's a part of me.. music is what defines me as a person. . the social aspect of it is also cool
in regard to nervousness: i've never felt nervous about playing in front of a crowd, but there have been times when i've played with certain people and i was really concerned about fucking up
We know how much St. Vincent makes per show. $20k-$30k. And we can probably find this out for other musicians as well. The problem is we don't know how much of that goes personally to them. So St. Vincent's overall money made touring in 2014 was upwards of $4 million but she doesn't get anywhere near that much in personal income. I'm sure she still makes a lot (someone in a thread about this quite a while ago said she may get $6k per show herself, though even if she made less than that that's still several hundred thousand dollars in personal profit, and that's just the touring money). If anyone has any idea about this I'd love to hear it though.
>it's what i have to do; it's a part of me
I definitely feel ya on that one. If I didn't do music I don't know what else I would do..
I wish I could take advantage of the social aspect a little more. I feel like I am not around enough musicians for me to take advantage of it and to grow as a person in this area
>I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from being a musician
Why not? There should be less musicians around. Seriously. The market is oversaturated with horse shit. It's like that Hakuin koan that predicts the end of the sake factory because they've grown so explosively.
Right now I'm fine. And I'll be totally fine until 10mn before I have to get on stage.
But if you really wish to know, mostly pasta. Over the last months I tried to introduce more fruits, fibers and vegetables into the mix, regularly eat some ofc, but it certainly lacks greenies.
i think there's a social aspect to playing jazz that is different from other forms of music.
since jazz musicians share a common repertoire, there is a greater opportunity to play with a wider variety of people with
sitting-in for a tune or two on someone else's gigis also a fairly common thing
so.. if you can play.. you get to know people..
Eat a couple Vicodin before you go on stage haha.
But seriously, there's no need to be nervous, especially if you really know your songs. Even if you are nervous and fuck up a couple little things, hit the wrong note a few times, it's not like anybody in the audience is going to notice.
Yeah, that's the problem.. a lot of people around me aren't on the same level. So I am doomed to playing whatever I can think of over a guitar players open major and minor chords. Even if they do play something like a Maj7 or 7 they don't know what it is. But I'm really happy to be a part of my band since we all get it. I dunno what I would do without them..
>tfw making £32k and struggling to pay rent and bills
My shits are fine though. These were just the symptoms I'll (probably) feel when I'll have to play live, and when I think about it.
This is fucking scary man. And the worst is that there is no logical reason for it to be scary. I know what I have to play, bandmates too, audience will be friends and friendly people. But on the moment, I'd rather be at my place a thouand times. Probably.
Why wouldn't you just make music and do shows n shit while putting it up there? Playing at bars is fun as fuck and aren't exactly hard gigs to get.
I wouldn't worry about making tons of dosh, if you're good that will come, getting your music out there should be your first priority.
Obviously not America because he doesn't realize pretty much every single musician ever was broke as fuck for years and years before making any real money off their music...
Anything under $100k in most places you would want to actually live in the states (big cities) is like just enough to pay rent, own a car, and have cable/internet. Or if you have kids, under $100k isn't a lot. There isn't much left over for saving or spending on luxuries.
But hey, my own place with cable and having a car isn't too bad. Just wish I had more money to waste on music equipment.
How does it feel knowing this guy makes more than your favorite musician, /mu/?
Professional food reviewers probably make more than most cooks or even some chefs. The only media where the people who participate/create consistently make more than analysts or reviewers is sports.
he reviews music, pretty much most popular albums that come out and even requests. he is posted a lot around here, kinda a meme.
some points/reviews he has are valid and alright, but i always feel like music reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.
i had no idea he even really made money off this kinda thing.. or at least a lot.
Ted Gioia wrote a pretty good article on how especially now, music critics don't really write about the music - they're more like lifestyle reviews.
they're just not educated about music - it's all just a bunch of bullshit opinions
Miami. Rent anywhere where your neighbors are white, close to the beach, and have a pool is not cheap. Used to live in Chicago and it's the same.
$100k is a decent income and you can have a good living. I'm saying much under $100k and there isn't a lot left after you pay the bills. I make like $60k a year and have no kids and there still isn't shit left over after I pay rent/car insurance and the rest of my bills.
The average income in the US is like $40k and I have no idea how people live like that. I guess that's why so many people have so much credit card debt.
You need to learn about something called calculated risk and creative capital.
You need to spend money to make money and be unafraid to fail. Start with a job that can make you money, creative capital. If you really love music, youll always create and maybe you will find your time. But if you don't, it doesn't matter because you love the work.
Push for indie stardom, with a nice small steady job.
The only way you can really truthfully review music and art is by comparing/contrasting with other works. But to give it a #/10 rating and how well you "like" or "enjoy" it is just ridiculous. I don't know why people even give these critics the time of day.
why would i want white neighbors? so they could murder me and cut me up in my sleep? you fucking cuck.
>not wanting based black/cuban neighbors.
Ok, I guess you could say "This record has intricate guitar work" but kinda besides the point.
It is pointless to say "I give this record a 2/10. I didn't enjoy it, so neither should you."
music is a higher power lol
i have a pretty low pressure day gig - i sit in an office, read stuff, write stuff, maybe talk to a few people on the phone. i guess even that does take a bit of energy - more mental energy than physical and it can be quite draining
but.. i've been playing music for so long, it's a huge part of my life.. i don't really even think about it.. i played from 9:30 - 1:00 last night.. got home a little before 2:00, got to sleep around 3:00 and woke up at around 5:30, got to the office by 7:00 .. honestly, i'm kinda beat today. luckily i have nothing going on tonight, but i've got to play 5 nights next week... i'll be kinda tired by the end of the week, but i'll have some cash in my pocket and hopefully, some decent music will come out of it too
>It is pointless to say "I give this record a 2/10. I didn't enjoy it, so neither should you."
i agree with this, but if you play yourself or if you have a comprehensive knowledge of music theory i think you are qualified to review music in a more informed manner.
you can speak with authority on the subject and if you're an acceptable writer, you can give people a decent impression of what to expect
i do think your previous comment is valid too, though i don't feel it's the 'only' way
If you like to live next to a house with 12 people living in it and little bastard kids with no parental guidance running around at all hours, be my guest. Oh yeah, and the house on the other side of you is vacant except for the occaisonal fiend goin in there to get high.
People who work hard enough to pay their bills tend to care a little bit more. Which is why the house they live in costs $300k instead of $40k. And their neighbors work hard and keep their shit in order too.
And for the sake of not being completely racist, I'm not trying to live in a trailer next to meth heads either
Yeah descibing certain aspects of it and trying to tell people "what to expect" is fine. But I still think there is a fundamental flaw with giving it a numerical rating.
Artists' sounds change over time and some of their fans like it, some don't. So even telling them "what to expect" can't always prepare somebody for it.
People shouldn't let a critic influence whether or not they buy a record. They should listen to a song or two first and then decide for themselves if they are going to spend the money.
Music as a full-time career where you do not have the living standards of a tramp is basically a complete pipe dream now that the legions of freeloading shit heads on the internet decided that they would steal all of the music they wanted to hear, rather than buy it.
Many of the bands you now have around are trust fund babies. They live well below their means but string out the money that their super rich parents got from working in the financial services industry.
If Grizzly Bear can barely make ends meet, then everybody underneath them are either holding down jobs to support their naive dream of being a superstar special snowflake, or they are on their parents dollar.
Anybody aspiring to do anything musical for any other reason than enjoying it and getting laid more often is totally fucking deluded and high on the smell of their own shit.
I wish I was a trust fund baby so I could become a professional musician haha.
I posted earlier tho mentioning the band Lucero. Great band, has a decent following, and has a bunch of studio albums. But their frontman Ben Nichols is always talking about their life on the road because they play like 200 shows a year to "pay the bills". They aren't filling up Madison Square Garden or anything, but they definitely wouldn't have to tour as much if more people paid for their albums.
However, I love the fact that they play shows 200 nights a year because I get to see them a lot. And I respect Ben Nichols because he has accepted the fact that they have to tour to make money, and has never really talked shit about the internet hurting musicians.
Plus if it weren't for the internet, tons of artists would have never gotten their names out there in the first place and wouldn't have fans to buy tickets when they tour...
The whole "No money in selling records" just has to be accepted by musicians in this day and age. It kinda sucks, but that's the way it is and people need to stop complaining about it.
Be happy you have fans and make any money off music. Go tour and sell tickets. Get a good manager who gets your music in movies and commercials. Do a Subway commercial and wear Beats headphones.