>>51613383 It's made with electronic equipment, but it's not categorized as electronic music :D It has a whole different feel than the big genre we know as "electronic music" and it's not part of it. It's a different question that what kind of instruments is Hip Hop usually made with. Ask any Hip Hop producer or listener or go to a ONLY-electronic music festival and ask where Hip Hop is played, you get the same answer.
>>51613508 >It's made with electronic equipment, but it's not categorized as electronic music Yes it is
> It has a whole different feel than the big genre we know as "electronic music" No it doesn't
>and it's not part of it. Yes it is
> It's a different question that what kind of instruments is Hip Hop usually made with. Electronic music is so named for the instruments
>Ask any Hip Hop producer or listener or go to a ONLY-electronic music festival and ask where Hip Hop is played, you get the same answer. Its all electronic music, there is no difference, same has vocals, some doesn't be it hip hop or trance etc
>>51613543 >Electronic music is so named for the instruments It's partly named for what it's made with, but also named after what the sound feels like, which is "electronic" and partly because unknown/not specified reasons. It's how we come up with any kind of proper nouns.
Electronic and acoustic in those senses are not genres.
>Its all electronic music, there is no difference, same has vocals, some doesn't be it hip hop or trance etc What do you mean there is no difference? Can you see a difference between Rock and Blues?
>Hip hop should actually be under breaks And Trance could be under House, but sometimes sub genres evolve into a recognized genres in themselves.
>>51613665 >>51613710 >>51613756 Electronic music is music that employs electronic musical instruments and electronic music technology in its production, an electronic musician being a musician who composes and/or performs such music.
>>51613756 >No, its solely named for the instruments Well we just have to agree to disagree on that one :D
>You can't pick and choose, if hip hop isn't a sub of electronic, then none of them are. I see what you mean. But in my eyes there is a difference between, which roots a specific genre originated from, and how we categorize them. Also the way we view things changes all the time. (Example when I people speak about House music now days, that doesn't include Trance under it and the other way around, but that was different in the 80s.) It's the view that we have about the subject at that specific time. What is a sub genre? As I see it, it means any form of music that can be categorized under the main genre, but is not recognized as a genre in itself.
If we talk about origins. Disco came from funk, pop, psychedelic soul and salsa music, which are not made with electronic instruments. House came from Disco, but has evolves into it's own genre. Trance contains elements of House, Techno, Acid house, Chill-out, Pop, Classical, Film score and even Hardcore techno (if there is any believing in Wikipedia) and is now a genre of it's own. Hip Hop formed in 1970s and originates from Funk, Disco, Dub, Blues, Reggea, Dancehall and many others. We still don't categorize Hip Hop under Soul or Salsa music do we?
If we go back to sub genres, why isn't Tropical House a genre of it's own when it has parts of jazz, blues and tribal music blended to it? It's because it still clearly feels House and hasn't evolved enough to be separated completely, but maybe in future it just might.
>>51614351 There are many genre's of Electronic music just like there are many genre's or Rock. It's not meaningless, but it's not an instrument category, at least not as a norm. You can categorize any way you want.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music >Electronic music is music that employs electronic musical instruments and electronic music technology in its production, an electronic musician being a musician who composes and/or performs such music.
https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Electronic/ >Electronic music is music which uses non-traditional electronic instrumentation and sound manipulation technology as the primary musical backbone of a composition.
http://www.last.fm/tag/electronic >Electronic music refers to music that emphasizes the use of electronic musical instruments or electronic music technology as a central aspect of the sound of the music.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Electronic%20Music >Electronic music is a term for music created using electronic devices.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/electronic-music >a form of music consisting of sounds produced by oscillating electric currents either controlled from an instrument panel or keyboard or prerecorded on magnetic tape
http://www.merriam-webster.com/concise/electronic%20music >Any music involving electronic processing (e.g., recording and editing on tape) and whose reproduction involves the use of loudspeakers.
>>51614519 By limiting yourself I ment: > You can categorize any way you want (not true by the way) Yes, you can categorize any way you want. No one is stopping you :)! You can in fact categorize music by BPM, the key of the song/track, by what kind of instrument it's played with, by genres, by mood by year by artist or by any way you find possible.
>>51614528 Opinions are opinions and facts are facts.
>>51614761 No one's escaping anything :D at least not right now. But opinions CAN'T be proven otherwise. If they can be THEY AREN'T an opinion. I like turtles, prove me wrong ;)! I personally don't you "where ever, when ever" cards like religion.
Facts that one presents thought can obviously be proven wrong in the engaging discussion.
>>51614812 To add: by evading discussion via not saying anything but the most obvious (this is subjective, that is your opinion), you are only proving your anti-intellectual nature: that you have nothing to say and as such are an needless burden on the whole community. :)
>>51614824 I didn't mean it like that, even if you interpret it that way :D. I just wanted to determine the difference between opinion and fact. You aren't saying I'm a burden to the community just to call names are you :D? Because that's a special broomstick tactic too.
>>51614812 >But opinions CAN'T be proven otherwise That's right, because the word you should be using is Argument. An argument is an opinion made with facts. The conclusion you draw with those facts will be considered true until proven otherwise.
>>51614882 >>51614908 You are once again missing the point here. There is a difference between making a claim, and stating a basic opinion. Making a claim and stating an opinion both requires knowledge of context for discussion to be formed, as only the most stupid and anti-intellectual would evade it it with a snary remark by the likes of "nuh-huh, subjective :)".
You like turtles, good for you. What do you like about them? How can your likening of turtles be correct or wrong?
Likewise, but not quite, rock jazz classical and electronic music sub-genres are less meaningful than the main genres themselves. Why do I think so? Will you bother questioning context, or are you going to equate my claim to liking/disliking turtles and evade it on the basis that "that is your opinion :)"?
>>51614960 >>51614908 >>51614882 >>51614865 >An opinion may be supported by facts, in which case it becomes an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Just leaving this here.
>>51615135 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument >In logic and philosophy, an argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons for accepting a particular conclusion as evident. >by giving reasons That's it.
>>51614990 Such a remark could be made because of many different reasons, and I made it because I interpreted your words wrong by thinking you meant opinions as in just that, when you actually meant agrument (like this guy understood right here >>51614992 ), just like you interpreted me wrong when thinking I countered with just a nuh-nuh.
I assume you understood I said liking turtles just as a point, and if you didn't: no I won't evade your claim by that, so tell me why do you think they are less meaningful? Which is different, than meaningless, what you said before.
>>51615196 >Such a remark could be made because of many different reasons, and I made it because I interpreted your words wrong by thinking you meant opinions as in just that, when you actually meant agrument (like this guy understood right here >>51614992 ), just like you interpreted me wrong when thinking I countered with just a nuh-nuh. Quite much.
>so tell me why do you think they are less meaningful? Which is different, than meaningless, what you said before. Most genres and subgenres tend to be derivative of each other, some more or less than others, but still sharing a certain influence high enough to be called (a style of) music. On a universal scale, music subgenres are less meaningful than the main genres themselves, on a multiversal scale, they are meaningless. Go even higher and you reach a point where music itself becomes meaningless to art as a whole.
>>51615322 Yea most sub genres tend to be derivative of each other, but I don't get the rest. Sub genres are less meaningful or completely meaningless because they are just the same thing? Is that it? And why does music become a meaningless as an art form?
>>51615570 The style, the intention, the basics remain all the same. Obviously upon closer inspection a high being will start noticing the tiny differences contained within, but from a casual high being perspective humanity and it's arts are just atoms.
>>51615811 And what I am saying is that on a universal and a multiversal scale, music subgenres and music genres are meaningless to almost useless, and as we go further human art and humanity itself becomes just as small and hardly relevant.
Obviously I'm not a high being so I don't seriously believe what I am saying right now, I'm only pointing out obvious facts as they stand.
>>51615908 It doesn't matter how much you compare it to a bigger being, sub-genres exist and are still relevant if we are talking about music. What are you trying to achieve with this anyways? I don't get you.
>>51615925 They don't, but WE do, especially if you are on a MUSIC forum.
>>51615960 They exist, obviously, because they are on the same scale as we are, and it is us who make them be. For higher beings they (and we) will hardly matter or be relevant though, and that is exactly what I have been saying this entire time, albeit vaguely, for which I apologize.
>What are you trying to achieve with this anyways? I don't get you. idk I'm bored
>>51616016 As I see it, Genres and Sub-Genres should always be about the evolution of music instead of sharing similar characteristics. For example, Metal right now is so diverse that there's no way to define it as a whole, so we have to use sub-genres to group each one of those tiny little evolution steps. The same goes for Rock, Jazz, and Classical.
>But is metal a subgenre of rock, or is it a sub, subgenre of blues? Both >Is drum & bass a subgenre of breaks or a sub, subgenre of electronic? Both >Is funk a subgenre of r&b or a sub, subgenre of race music? Race music is't very convincing, but agree with the first part.
Again, music always evolves from a previously existing genre. Everything that comes up from that genre is considered a sub-genre of the original. As time goes on, a genre can be so diverse that there is no way of defining the genre and it's subgenres as a whole, but we still use it because it shares the same evolutionary path.
>>51616024 Yeah, that's okay, but I fail to see why that should matter. With that logic we could say that everything is irrelevant and you would be right, but the thing is, this is about things being relatively relevant about what we are talking about.
>>51616253 When I say Electronic, I usually refer to all the music that evolved from House/Techno. Common sense should be enough to see if someone is talking about actual electronic music or just the Techno/House sub-genre.
>>51616291 >When I say Electronic, I usually refer to all the music that evolved from House/Techno but thats wrong, electronic music refers to all and any music made with electronic instruments >>51614612
>>51616291 The music that came from house/techno is electronic dance music (or dance music) and electronica. Much like how most modern rock like shoegaze isn't about rock and rolling anymore, lots of modern dance music styles aren't about dancing anymore either.
Just don't call that music EDM, because EDM is exclusively use for mainstream cookie-cutter genres like big room house and electro house now.
>>51616474 >OP posts a pic about Techno/House/Breaks and it's subgenres >"I'm pretty sure he's talking about Stockhausen" Use. Common. Sense. It's obvious about what kind of electronic music he's talking about.
>>51616580 >No, common sense does not give me telepathic skills, saying the correct words tells me what you are talking about. So, if someone makes a post about how electronic music is the best genre while attaching a pic of Techno/House subgenres, you really need telepathy to know that he's talking about Techno/House subgenres instead of electronic music as a whole? No offense, but that's literal autism.
>>51616872 Because everybody understands that when we talk about Electronic music. Even then, most of the time they will specify if they are talking about Art, or Techno, or whatever, by using pics, mentioning artist names, or stuff like that.
>>51617041 >That was my point, all those in the image are subgenres of electronic music I agree with that. The thing is that there's no need to talk about Stockhausen and Co. if the OP provided a pic about Techno/house and their subgenres. >you kept banging on about what you talk to your friends about. And I keep saying you to use common sense. I mean, you are on a popular music forum full of teenagers. What's more likely they are talking about when they say "electronic"?
>>51617108 >The thing is that there's no need to talk about Stockhausen and Co. if the OP provided a pic about Techno/house and their subgenres. The OP image includes industrial and 'avant-garde', as does every link earlier for what is electronic music.
>>51617108 >What's more likely they are talking about when they say "electronic"? see >>51616684 and don't forget about the noise or ambient fans. Don't assume all on /mu/ like dance/hip hop music.
>>51617278 >So? Still electronic music. Yes, and that's why I'm telling you to use common sense. They won't refer to it as electronic music, they will call it Noise or Ambient instead, even if it is. When people talk about Electronic music, they mean everything that evolved from House/Techno most of the time. If they don't mean that, they will be more specific. >At the bottom Still not seeing it.
>>51617533 see https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=705&q=electronic+music#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=PI8zpniWQq80EM%253A%3B1Ry1EUXxAK8kUM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252F7%252F76%252FJosef_Tal_at_the_Electronic_Music_Studio.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FElectronic_music%3B2048%3B1536
Electronic Music (as meant by the majority of /mu/ and people in general): Music that evolved from House and Techno. Actual Electronic Music: See >>51614612
Since Electronic Music is very vague and has as much value as Vocal or Acoustic Music, it's preferred that you use the first definition. If you want to talk about Electronic Music that doesn't fit that definition, please state so in your post to avoid conflicts.
> literally has never heard of jazz fusion > literally has no idea what an electric guitar is > literally has no idea what's happened to folk in the past 40 years > has no idea that groundbreaking classical music has used tapes and electric drones for over 60 years
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