Synth General: Behringer edition Apparently Behringer is in

>>51508303
>new behringer synth is a digital 303 clone

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I support /synth/.

>>51508702
I believe they intend to make an analog poly. Would make sense too, considering they're really good at copying Roland products.

>>51508303
>Hopefully they will be built by the Midas division to avoid build quality issues.
Still, would you take it over a used Juno?

who /generative/ masterrace here?

>>51508303
Source on the synthesiser by behinger?

>>51509492
It's in german, it will take a minute.
>>51509462
If the price is right. Junos are really inflated right now. Plus if they start making new voice ICs, what's not to love?

>>51509492
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2014/11/13/poll-if-behringer-makes-a-synth-what-should-they-make/
>>51509462
I'd rather have a P8 and a chorus tbh. The junos are kinda overrated, I hope it's more like an AX 60.

>>51509483
Sorry, I like making music more than my computer does. I also dislike coding, a lot.

>>51509574
>new voice ICs
New Juno voices or a completely new chip? They already make perfect 106 clones.

>>51509581
>I'd rather have a P8 and a chorus
We know this already.

>>51509612
Either, the Juno clones aren't ICs, they're tiny PCBs that fit in IC sockets.

Dave cant be the only motherfucker making them.

>>51509622
I don't think they can really compete though unless it's like 6 voices at $1500 msrp.

>>51509591
>implying you can make objectively good music without computer assistance

>>51509709
>objectively
you should stick to some anti-theory circlejerk or something, this is a synth thread

>>51509695
I'm pretty sure they're shooting for lower than $1500

>>51509709
It's called skill. It's like saying you can't do good arpeggios without an arpgeggiatior.

>>51508303

Don't worry, Behringer will make that wavetable/vector synth you've all wanted for years.

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>>51509777
wrong krauts

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>>51509733
<<<<<<
>>51509776
nah, it's called look-what-I-made syndrome

>>51509845

>tfw no wall of modular synth to play with

>>51509845
I've always wanted to try out a doepfer trautonium setup to see what all the fuss was about with that thing.

>>51509751
Idk how they could deliver an analog poly with decent build quality under that, unless it's a 4 voice. It would be cool if they made a hybrid with digital waves and analog filters/envelopes though.

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>>51509867
>>51509900
want a modular setup so much just to get this thing for it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV9-XA5MPwY
what are some other neat /sequencer/s?

>>51509900
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ02S8kfLfU

>>51509960
p.s skip to 2:25

>>51509960

>pitch sliders
>not glorious pots

preorder cancelled

>>51509949
Uli built his company on discovering that expensive gear is just marked up cheap components, and he said that the synth industry is the same way.

Definitely wouldn't mind digital oscs and envelopes as long as the envelopes can loop, and oscs can either sample or FM.

>>51509974
you can do stuff with sliders tho like piss around with french curves

>>51509960
Not a sequencer but damn this guys filter demo is rad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhNljvO0GCc

>>51509969
I've listened to quite a few Sala performances, but I mean the real chance to play one, or at least the Doepfer take on the Trautonium

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazona.de%2Ftop-news-interview-behringer-entwickelt-synthesizer%2F&edit-text=

Found the german article

>because the damn smell after "Now it wants the old fox still know ..."
kek

>>51509998

>Uli built his company on discovering that expensive gear is just marked up cheap components

I hope you aren't implying anything behringer other than the rack processors is any good

>>51510021
yeah i know what you mean i used to wonder what it would sound like with some invasive sequencing
not that he isn't really talented but it looks like such a rigmarole

>>51510064
Nope, just saying that the point is to make something cheap. I really don't think they're even going to try to make it priced at DSI levels, given their history.

>>51509483
me, although I don't like the term "generative" so much

>>51509650
The Dave Smith ones aren't new designs (unless he's made something new for the Prophet 12 that I don't know about). He bought the rights to remake an old Curtis chip. It's expensive to design new analog ICs, and not worth it unless you're going to make a lot of them.

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What synth is Mr. Glass using in this picture?

>>51510167
bass station 2

>>51510167
Prophet 5

>>51510064
Behringer's engineering is actually excellent. I think they do the most R&D of any company.

>>51510163
That's exactly what I meant, Dave shouldn't have the only supply of newly made synth ICs.

I'm not sure which IC's are being made by DSI's supplier, but there's more than just one.

>>51509998
>
Uli built his company on discovering that expensive gear is just marked up cheap components, and he said that the synth industry is the same way.
It's mainly a problem of economies of scale. You can't make something interesting and affordable unless you invest a lot into it. For synths, that's not generally worth it unless they're mainstream home keyboards. The last time a company tried something really ambitious was the Alesis Andromeda, and it lost them a huge amount of money.

>>51510252
The andromeda was a great synth that came out at the wrong time

>>51510252
I don't think they're going for overly ambitious super polysynths. DSI has made plenty of rehashes of the same synth chips, and they're still doing well. They even have more quality control issues than Alesis did, between poorly made UIs and encoders failing.

>>51510222
It's problematic, though. Even if you have the masks, etc. you can't necessarily find a foundry that can remake something after the equipment has been sold off. I think the Curtis IC that Dave Smith had reproduced was one of the last designs, and he stepped in something like 10 years after it had been made. I don't think you could do the same thing for an SSM2040, for example. It's too old. I think for the most part you'd have to do a fully original design, which is too expensive unless you're selling tons of them.

Anyway Behringer owns Coolaudio and they already make the v2164, so chances are anything they make will be based heavily on that.

>>51510304
I think it wasn't clear at the time that the market for expensive synths was totally and permanently dead. Other companies were still in the process of finding that out the hard way.

>>51510365
>v2164
I wanted VCAs, not a body thong!

>>51510439
oh dear

Actually now that I look at the products list, they also have an LM13700 clone that's a lot cheaper. And the reason they make cheap ICs that can be easily used in synths is that they already sell tons of them in mixers and compressors and stuff.

>>51510503
If they do go the Juno style poly route, they have a few BBD chips to pick from for the chorus.

>>51510405
>>51510304
Can someone explain the synth market over time to me?
The way I see it is:
>84-89
Pre internet, professionals getting rid of old analog gear to make way for new digital stuff. Old analog is dirt cheap
>90-99
Old roland analog stuff is popular with electronic music. Analog bumps up in price, along with expensive digital workstations.
>00-04
Dip in the price of analog gear. Digital workstations and hardware start to phase out in favor of computers.
>04-Now
Analog gear prices slowly rise to present inflated prices. Vintage digital is cheap as hell. Computers are still mostly favored over hardware.

>>51510588
>muh imperfections
bleme the hipsters

>>51510643
That's specifically what I blame Juno prices on.

>>51510588
Yamaha's historical overview gives some interesting insights.The thing is, conventional "synth fanboy" narratives don't really have a lot of explanatory power. There are many different facets to the market, and people who collect synths and make electronic music is only one of them.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/synth_40th/history/

I think the important thing is that expensive synths don't sell very well at all. It's not worth it for major manufacturers to try to design one. But cheap toys sell moderately well.

>>51510661
I dunno why hipsters would want a Juno specifically. To me they most strongly suggest 90s music.

>>51510747
When I think Juno I think acid house and Oneohtrix Point Never. I don't think I could ever own a 60 since I feel kinda bad using it because OPN killed it.

>>51510747
I play keys in a band with a giant hipster, he never stops talking about how much we need a Juno. It's not much different in Minneapolis, which is the hipster capital in my region.

>>51510795
>>51510643
>>51510661
I think it might also be they are still significantly cheaper than a Prophet 5 or a Jupiter.

>>51510785
It was a total cliche for years already before he did his thing. I mean almost the entire Warp Artifical Intelligence series is covered with it.

And Eurythmics before that.

>>51510838
They make like two good sounds.

>>51510838
So does this mean that the Hipsters will eat up the Behringer mystery synth?

>>51510966
>They make like two good sounds.
I know they're overrated, but c'mon, have you even played a Juno?

I don't expect much, but we'll have to see.

I want more synth general

>>51511023
>I want more synth general
So do I, they're tending to go a lot better than they used to.

>>51511004
Yes, I had a Juno 60 at my house for months.

>tfw I could have bought it for $200 but wasn't sure that it could be repaired
>it only needed to be reassembled

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>>51509709

>>51510966

>Surfing on Sine Waves - Polygon Window
no
>Bytes - Black Dog Productions
no
>Electro-Soma - B12
no
>Dimension Intrusion - F.U.S.E.
no
>Ginger - Speedy J
maybe, on one track
>Incunabula - Autechre
yes

>>51511100
They're limited, but 2 sounds is clearly a stretch.

>>51510966
>It was a total cliche for years already before he did his thing
The warp ai stuff is still in my backlog. OPNs connection to the synth is really intimate though, like he definitely jerked off on it at least once.
>They make like two good sounds.
If you ever seen the Brian Eno movie it's like his guitar philosophy.
>>51510981
Probably not, since it's not vintage.

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Thoughts on this?

>>51511146
>Probably not, since it's not vintage.
kek

>>51511161
I like my keys and beats, but come on korg, no sample input? Christ.

>>51510795
People who think gear is the ultimate answer never make good music

>>51511221
>you're not allowed to customize your aesthetic
unless you make all ur tunes 100% in the box on a daw that you programmed yourself then shut the fuck up

>>51511190
Are you limited to the preset samples? if so thats total garbage

>>51511161
was interested until
>iOS required to input samples
For real though. How is developing an app cheaper than adding an audio jack

>>51511267
because you only have to develop it once

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>no money for hardware

>>51511221
He writes good music, but he's fresh out of high school, so he's still in that kind of mentality. He still has an ear for the sound he wants though, and that sound involves polysynths.

>>51511257
You're clearly missing the point.

>>51511288
>no hard for moneyware

>>51511257
Did you reply to the wrong post? If not then explain yourself

>>51511289
think about it- your point wasn't very clear to begin with

>>51511146
>OPNs connection to the synth is really intimate though, like he definitely jerked off on it at least once.
I always thought his music was super boring though.

>>51510588
this is why i payed $100 for a mk1 DX7, $200 for a W30 sampler workstation, and $400 for a juno 106 with bad voices, plus another $200 to repair them

ugh.

>>51511323
You didn't even notice I'm not the person you replied to. I was even replying to the same post you did.

Just shut up before you make yourself look more retarded.

>>51511333
I found his Rifts material to be pretty engaging for ambient he has a lot of shit tough.

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>>51511317
lrn2read

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>>51511323

arguably the most infuriating is the absurd price jump of the MPC60, due to all the 90s revivalists in nyc. the Roland W30 is arguably a superior piece of machinery, with an actual keyboard, similar specs, cleaner sound and 1/4th the price

>tfw i own a W30 and wish it was an MPC

>>51511429
learn to comprehend what you read

>>51511442
I like the pads more though

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I played around with one of these in a store recently. Good features and interface but that price.. Roland needs to re-work their selling strategies

>>51511442
>keyboard
>superior to anything
heheh

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>>51511288
you're never gonna give me your dad's numba are you

>>51511442
Use changing trends to your advantage. Every other sampler is bottoming out.

But on the other hand, all the stuff I drooled over in high school is now worth next to nothing and I can't bring myself to spend $120 on it. It's really just obsolete. I could buy it but I wouldn't use it if I did.

>>51511384
What kind of ruined it for me is when someone remarked that he thought the stuff I recorded when I was 18-19 (which I think is a little embarrassing now) was more interesting than OPN.

>>51511534
If it was some acoustic kit, a 707,a 727 and a 909 I think the price would be justifiable.

analog synths run on electricity, electricity by nature is unpredictable, things like analog filters introduce texture to the sound that digital does not produce.
digital sounds by default are perfect. when a computer produces a square wave, it creates a perfect square, and when a computer filters that square wave it precisely cuts out the frequencies that it is told to cut out.

here lies the interesting part. analog by default is scientifically more pleasing to the ear than digital. humans have never been used to perfect sounds. there is nothing in nature that creates a perfect sound. guitars, pianos, cymbals and so on all produce sounds which have at least slight imperfections in pitch and timbre.

you can keep telling yourself your vst sounds just as good but just know you are wrong.

>>51511558
post material pls

>>51511598
Daily reminder that if you record to CD or MP3 this advantage is no longer relevant.

>>51511534
See, this is the problem. It's ultimately kind of the consumer's fault. We're spoiled that everything else (which is produced in far greater quantities) is so cheap. That's why most manufacturers won't take a chance of anything.

>>51511619
I don't really want to.

>>51511627
The method of recording doesn't change things like pitch and timbre.

>>51511598
Was it copypasta last time too, or did someone just recognize it as fantastic b9?

>>51511627
That's not really true though.

>>51511516
i like pads for freestyling but in actual recording i always use triggers if i need some soul. other wise step sequencing is cool too for simple beats
>>51511536
lol im an organist im sorry ill always prefer black and white
>>51511558
i love obsolete tech, i always lived for the concept of a closed set of parameters, and forcing them to their limits, because that is the threshold of creativity
but all in all youre right cd quality hardware samplers are near worthless now, but they lack the bite of 12 bit so i dont really have a need for them except for long playing samples (which is why i have an Akai s20)

>>51511639
>It's ultimately kind of the consumer's fault
Not really. If they put out a full analog 808 reissue, but smaller I guarantee it would sell like hot cakes.

>>51511663
pls bby cakes

>>51511639
By everything else do you mean other music related tech or food, gas, etc?

>>51511679
>recording
analog source -> digital medium
>listening
digital medium -> digital sound
>>51511686
yes it is. in the present day this "analog advantage" is obsolete given that the ubiquitous method of consuming music includes storing it on digital media. unless you're sending your analog singal path to tape and cutting that straight to wax, it is no longer possible to distinguish whether a patch was made on an analog synth or on a vst

>>51511706

there's no way they would do that. i imagine some of the circuit elements are too costly to remake. the market big manufacturer seem to be going for is not professional musicians, otherwise we'd be seeing more features on hardware. they are selling to the casuals. at least some of the hardware pieces have some utility.

>>51511693
>i love obsolete tech, i always lived for the concept of a closed set of parameters, and forcing them to their limits, because that is the threshold of creativity

Yeah I know, but I kinda did that already years ago. I could fill up racks with stuff but I don't use what I have. Anymore I'm really picky about that sort of thing and not satisfied with any of it.

>but they lack the bite of 12 bit
No one wants 12 bit samplers either. S900, TX16w, EPS, DSS-1, S50, FZ-1 (okay that's 16 bit), etc. are gritty as hell and aren't worth shit.

>>51511782
It would depend on the VA reproduction quality of the vst. Whether it's an mp3 or vinyl makes no difference.

>>51511846
Acidlab did a clone called the Miami that sold for $1102. I think roland could definitely make one for less than that. If there was no money in the nostalgia market then why even make the Aria line and why does stuff like the xoxbox or tt 303 still sell.

>>51511893

>No one wants 12 bit samplers either. S900, TX16w, EPS, DSS-1, S50, FZ-1 (okay that's 16 bit), etc. are gritty as hell and aren't worth shit.

i know, i love it. now is the time to buy. it's hilarious that people pile on bitcrusher plug-in when there are some samplers going dirt cheap on ebay

>>51511706
They obviously couldn't do it cheaply enough.

>>51511764
I mean computers, phones, game consoles, etc. Intuitively there's no reason a synth should cost more than a PS4 or desktop PC. But you're making 5000 of something, not 50000000.

>>51511846
I don't think the 808 uses any custom parts. It's just that there are a lot of parts.

>>51511947

>I don't think the 808 uses any custom parts. It's just that there are a lot of parts.

if it was that easy someone would be able to make an 808 clap that sounds authentic. i've heard great hats, snares, and kicks, but the claps aren't accurate

>>51511917
>Whether it's an mp3 or vinyl makes no difference.
makes a world of difference

analog gets bounced to bits on digital medium
vst already operate within the digital medium
vsts can faithfully reproduce analog sounds within the digital medium

simpple

>>51511782
>unless you're sending your analog singal path to tape and cutting that straight to wax, it is no longer possible to distinguish whether a patch was made on an analog synth or on a vst

Sorry, this is bullshit. First, AD and DA conversion have been transparent for decades, and even a cheap Behringer interface would be good enough that you couldn't tell it was there in a double blind test.

Second, the proposition that any signal that can be recorded can be synthesized (Max Mathews) is extremely naive, because it doesn't mean we have the capability to synthesize it. There are plenty of things that very simple analog circuits can do that are very, very difficult to do digitally.

Picture this: a hardware sampler with USB and midi in/out with a bare-bones interface and internal memory. It costs $150. Could it be done? I think so

>>51511934
niggas still gonna whine though because it's not $300

>>51511935
>now is the time to buy.
I still can't bring myself to do it.

>it's hilarious that people pile on bitcrusher plug-in
that doesn't work anyway

>>51512077
>niggas still gonna whine though because it's not $300
True that.

>>51512052

doesn't akai already have one?

>>51512077

>I still can't bring myself to do it.

no love for floppy disks?

>>51512036

i totally agree with this, yet someone should mention how much of a difference cutting to tape makes.

>>51512012
Actually the clap does have a BA662 that I hadn't noticed before...

But this idea of confirming authenticity by comparing audio is partly misguided, as these things had really loose component tolerances to begin with.

I seem to see a lot of people around here complaining about not having a wall of modules to play with, but why don't people start buying modular stuff rather than always going with regular synths? I mean sure it's expensive but if you just shelled out $1000 or so you could get the basic VCO, VCF, etc. and then just expand from there? Wouldn't that be mostly the same price as buying another synth every few years? I'm thinking of doing this so is there any reason for me not to that i haven't thought of?

>>51512013
It might make a difference in audio quality but it won't effect the character of the sound.

>analog gets bounced to bits on digital medium
Do you even FLAC?
But seriously, you don't seem to know what you're talking about

>>51512013
>simpple
but completely misguided

>>51512143

as a guy that has some modular hardware, i would imagine people are discouraged because of the cost factor in 5U/MU modules and the learning curve in eurorack.

>>51512126
>doesn't akai already have one?
Akai stuff is garbage now.

>>51512143
What is the advantage of modular systems?

Guys I like electronic music. But know absolutely nothing about synths or electronic instruments in general. Can you recommend some books so I can not be an idiot.

>>51512126
If they do I want it

>>51512227
You can add/subtract anything about the synth whenever you want. I like the idea that if there's a feature i want in my synth, i can put it in.

>>51512227
literally everything over traditional synthesizer except.
>Price
>Cost

>>51512227
flexible routing and you can choose the combinations of what you want

>>51512282
>traditional synthesizer
modulars predate pre routed synths

>>51512282
fuck I meant
>Price
>Size
>Skill cap
If you have enough cash you can have a 16 note polyphonic TB 303 clone.

>>51512231
Ask questions here and on other forums, read wiki articles and find what artists you listen to do.

If you really want to understand synthesis, start with these vids: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=atvtBE6t48M

>>51512278
Okay. What does each module contain? A vco, filter, lfo etc?

>>51511893
the s900 and s950 recently went wayyyy up because muh 90s but the rest of them are still cheap, although theyre basically all a nightmare to use with the exception of the rolands
and sadly thats how i feel i have old romplers like an S4 and its great and all if im just using one piano sound i can easily just sample it and call it a day

>>51512414
Each one could have one or several of those components. A VCF plus a VCA is a low pass gate, some ADSRs have VCAs to make things simple. VCAs are also much more important than just an output module. One can never have too many VCAs

>>51512414
This guy explains it well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9tMFyKxbrI&list=PLa9Em_H8Xs_al-r_90xYiuiz-3N8HZyf_&index=1

>>51512414
>>51512227
>>51512282
>>51512278

the drawback of the modular other than # of voices is that you get seduced by the machine and stop making music or leaving the house

>>51512282
I don't think the interface is that practical either.

>>51511934
I have the Miami, it's sick as tits.

>>51511741
I can post it if you really want it, I guess.

>>51512621
I'm still here and I do

>>51512479
>>51512521
>>51512529
Thanks doods

>>51511221
I don't think gear is the answer, but his gear is certainly a treat to play with. I just want my equipment to do what I expect it to do.

>>51508303
Is that really a mockup? It's making me cringe.

>>51512640
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xm4ysi7LTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFFb41VPbuw
that's about the best I could manage on shitty hardware circa 2003

>>51512822
No, it's from 4 years ago when Behringer started the idea, then some rando made that

>>51512866
It's a little repetitive. I really wouldn't say it's cringe worth bad or even that bad in general. At the worst it's generic ice level video game music. I don't see how it's even comparable to OPN though.

>>51510747
>>51510747
are you fucking retarded, think of the term hipster then think of when that scene peeked....fuck you
>>51510747

>>51511598
computers run on electricity

>>51512721

wat, gear is always the answer. buy tons of gear to sate your tech hunger.

then sell it to me when you tire of it

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>>51509960

The ADDAC206 Switching Sequencer is pretty dope. It has directionality, skip function, hold, LFO control of direction, clock division, etc.

>>51513373
Computers run calculations to create synth sounds. This copy pasta is only partially right.

>>51512143
polyphony

>>51510175
underrated post

>>51511119
>>51510966

i thought Ae used the 106? its all over amber, like every track

>>51513749
Incunabula literally runs through the entire scope of what the Juno is capable of.

>>51513876
yes but the 106 or the 60? all the sounds they use sound like 106 to my ears

>>51513927
The ae gear lists I've seen agree with your ears.

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Behringbump

>>51514926
I kinda hope they actually do make something; they're fully capable of doing a good job.

>>51509709
So everything before the mid-late 70s is objectively not good?

>>51514991
Same here. I've been hoping for somebody else to get into the polysynth game that isn't just another VA or exorbitantly priced monster

>>51510167
I've seen that man in the flesh.

>>51515100
computer music has been around since the late 50s though

>>51511598
Not really - digital filters are modelled on analogue ones and have the same principles like pole, order, etc. A first order digital filter will have a slope like an analogue one.

And digital will capture all the imperfections of real sounds - it just won't add any of its own. Except during the ADC stage. Plus analogue modeling is getting better so if you really need those extra imperfections you can add them back on.

There's nothing that says digital can't sound like analogue - if you recorded your vinyl to wav, you would still be able to tell it was a vinyl source - and not just from the crackles. Digital will reproduce what you give it.

>>51515309
Okay so that made the statement I was trying to refute even stupider.

>>51515370
>responding to bait
>with that

How do you guys rate the Korg MS2000? I love the sounds (especially with the DWGS osc) but I find the 4 note polyphony to be a bit of a pain. Is that acceptable to you?

>>51515438
It's meh

>>51515409
It's true though.

>>51515497
Possible != probable
Probable != actual

>>51515496
Because it's just basically a subtractive synth?

>>51515559
No, I just wasn't fond of the sound and the 4 voices.

>>51515528
What?

>>51515575
The 4 voices is lame I suppose. I've never like that. What's better?

>>51515587
Just because it's possible to model something, doesn't mean it's likely to be accurately modeled, let alone actually is accurately modeled.

>>51515604
Blofeld is about the same price. Has some pretty good filters too.

>>51515607
I'm sure it's getting better all the time. There's already some pretty nice things out there and even if they only model it 95% accurately then you could argue that the remaining 95% was "sonic character" too, the very concept at the heart of this debate.

>>51515693
But at the end of the day, you're still some anon in a synth thread talking about how much better digital synthesis is. At best, you come off like an ass.

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Not really synth related but I figured this was the most relevant place to ask.
Is this a good electric piano for a beginner? It got good reviews, but I still don't know exactly where to start.

>>51515693
>remaining 95%
5%

Real talk though, It doesn't matter what synth or gear you use as long as you enjoy using it.

>>51515758
Pretty solid budget model. I would recommend it.

>>51515370
>A first order digital filter will have a slope like an analogue one.
Except with a distorted response at high frequencies, no nonlinearities and different response to time varying filter frequency.

>Digital will reproduce what you give it.
reproduction isn't the same as synthesis

does anyone know have any good recommendations for vintage drum machines? I really like the sound of linn drums but they are grossly overpriced. the drum sound i'm going for is the drum sound on the cure's album "seventeen seconds" and john frusciante's "to record only water for ten days"

i have a lowrey organ that has a magic genie drum machine in it i really like the sound of, but it's not programmable in any way for someone like me with no knowledge of electronics.

any ideas? i really want something very simple and cheap.

>>51515756
I was just trying to offer a counter to that view. Saying analogue is better is misleading and the reasons stated in that post were feeble ones.

>>51515777
some people want to make decent music though

>>51515808
Yamaha RX11? Roland TR-626?

The Sequential Circuits Drum Traks is a good alternative to the Linn Drum but it's not super cheap either.

>>51515819
That post was pasta from another thread.

My point is that you shouldn't concern yourself with how far digital modeling has come because it's still not the same thing. And trying to convince people otherwise just makes you look like an idiot.

>>51515866
thanks man, i'll look into these

>>51515758
if ur just a beginner, you shouldnt be too worried what it sounds like, be more concerned on how to use it and once you wanna step up then throw your cash at the good stuff

>>51515884
Maybe Korg DDD-1 also, or Yamaha RX5 or RX7. These aren't fantastic but they're cheap and moderately flexible.

>>51515912
That's really what i'm going for honestly. Something simple and lo-fi (i.e. shitty sounding)

i really want something kinda flat sounding if that's what you mean by "not great"

>>51515825
Nah man. R+7 is proof you don't need good gear to make an amazing album.

>>51515798
>Except with a distorted response at high frequencies, no nonlinearities and different response to time varying filter frequency.

Does a digital filter inherently have to have a distorted response at high frequencies? Is this some kind of law? Surely it depends on the design.

If you really need nonlinearities to feel clever, then what's a transfer function?

As for the latter point, I presume you're talking about discrete vs continuous? Exactly how much of an appreciable difference does this make?

I was making a point about how digital filters aren't necessarily brick wall filters anyway...

>>51515954
The early digital ones tend to use really short samples, and they're really compressed and punchy. The Linn LM-1 and Oberheim DMX are sort of the gold standard here, but the TR-626, RX11, etc. aren't really that far off regarding those qualities.

But some of them offer different features, editable sounds, etc. which you might consider advantageous.

>>51515877
>My point is that you shouldn't concern yourself with how far digital modeling has come because it's still not the same thing.
nuanced debate is best, but /mu/ sucks at it most of the time

>>51515997
It's still no good if the gear isn't capable of doing what you want it to do. Thus it does matter what you use. You need something sufficient to realize your creative vision.

>>51516038
>Is this some kind of law?
Kind of. There are various trade offs, but no flavor of bilinear transform never exactly matches the s-domain transfer function. You can't map the interval of zero to infinity to zero to Fs/2 without distorting something.

>I was making a point about how digital filters aren't necessarily brick wall filters anyway...
Well you did a terrible job of expressing that.

>>51516176
>Well you did a terrible job of expressing that.
No I didn't, I said that it can have a slope like that of an analogue.

>>51516047
i think so far the DDD-1 comes closest to the sound i want. The Drum Traks is pretty close too.

>>51516228
Nowhere was it implied that digital meant brickwall.

>>51512154
flac is digital, numbnuts

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Sup bitches. Had to replace the power cable on my mini, so I decided to throw an IEC socket in-line in case an over-enthusiastic guitarist trips over it.

>>51516267
>and when a computer filters that square wave it precisely cuts out the frequencies that it is told to cut out.

>>51511598
>and when a computer filters that square wave it precisely cuts out the frequencies that it is told to cut out.

Umm yeah it was.

>>51516176
>but no flavor of bilinear transform never exactly matches the s-domain transfer function. You can't map the interval of zero to infinity to zero to Fs/2 without distorting something.
What does this sound like?

>>51516299
Can you nerds do this over email or something? I'm really sick of watching people throw a fit over some bait.

You'd be proving a better point by showin you can have a thread without it devolving into yet another analog vs digital debate

>>51516255
Funny, the DDD-1 is kinda the weirdest sounding one. Sequential made the TOM too, which was really flexible and gritty as hell, but I think they're pretty rare.

>>51516349
Nothing in particular; digital FIR filter frequencies aren't accurate at very high frequencies, that's all. Set the cutoff to 21 kHz and it's probably not actually going to be -3dB at 21 kHz.

>>51516419
I mean IIR, not FIR

>>51516419
What about 8khz?

>>51516361
i think i really just need to play one in person. A lot of these have a ton of voices on it like cowbells i would never use. The drum traks was so close because there's a handful of buttons on it.

this is literallly the exact drum sound im after:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqQoYJXo1Hk

>>51516443
probably fine if the sample rate isn't really low

>>51516442
I remember this terminology in uni. How can anything have an infinite response? Like when they say infinite gain - then why can't I power my car stereo off a watch battery?

>>51516456
That's not far from the Yamaha ones, maybe.

The Emu Drumulator might be cheap now too...

>>51516470
>How can anything have an infinite response?
It's just that the Laplace transform mathematically extends to infinity because it's continuous while the z-transform doesn't because it's discretized.

>Like when they say infinite gain - then why can't I power my car stereo off a watch battery?
These sorts of things are just conveniences to make things mathematically easier.

>>51516584
that looks like what im looking for.

I just discovered the EKO ComputerRhythm searching. Holy shit i wish i had one of those

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>>51516933
>EKO ComputerRhythm
they sound like shit though

It's hard to evaluate the sound of drum machines from demos, because you're hearing how someone else wants to use it. I can name records that feature various different drum machines, but they're processed with EQ and effects and stuff and won't necessarily sound the same right out of the box.

Big Black used the Drumulator, New Order briefly used the RX11, Cocteau Twins used the Drumulator and RX5...

>>51517036
That EKO is literally like the exact sound i want. It's very close. I found the Roland CR-78 too, i like the sound of that a lot as well.

That RX11 made me think of the drum sounds on a casio keyboard or something

>>51517229
>That EKO is literally like the exact sound i want. It's very close. I found the Roland CR-78 too, i like the sound of that a lot as well.
Well those aren't anything like The Cure or Linn Drum... The CR-78 is great but also expensive, and anything that sounds like it isn't programmable. I like the Roland TR-77 a lot, and the Korg Minipops 7, but they're preset only. They were used by Ultravox and Suicide, respectively.

>That RX11 made me think of the drum sounds on a casio keyboard or something
It depends a lot on how it's processed. It's actually perfect for synthpop or shoegaze.