I'm so confused /mu/. Isn't post-irony unironic? Why is it associated with so much stuff that's ironic in one way or another? Is it just that the word "ironic" has lost its connotations through over-usage?
maybe for about another year. post-irony is just the new wave of memes, right after rage comics, most post-ironics come from 9gog and funnyjunk. anyway, it won't bigger than it already is, so it will only decline from now on, tho some aspects may actual transit to actual music
The internet phase now isn't "post-irony" where everyone takes irony seriously, it's "meta-irony" where everyone ironically does something ironic. Think about how often everyone references an out of fashion meme and slaps on a "xD" or something else retarded. Clearly they're not that retarded, and they're not even making fun of people that retarded. THEY'RE MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE MAKING FUN OF THOSE PEOPLE (caps for emphasis, not rage).
>>51134690 then what's the point of calling it "post irony" People have liked media with ironic elements for ages. you can like something ironically or sincerely, why confuse that by giving a special term to ironic things you like sincerely?
>>51134704 >Think about how often everyone references an out of fashion meme and slaps on a "xD" or something else retarded. Clearly they're not that retarded, and they're not even making fun of people that retarded.
but that is just normal irony
it become post-irony when people start using 'xD' legitimately, and not just to mock people
>>51134736 The point is that they're trying to "ironically" referencing something that used to be "ironic". The irony has shifted one level back. Meta doesn't imply a new phase like "post" does, the point is the context--the subject of irony has moved to irony itself (hence "meta").
Whereas in postmodern irony something is meant to be cynically mocked and not taken seriously, and in new sincerity something is meant to be taken seriously or "unironically"; post-irony combines these two elements by either (i) having something absurd taken seriously or (ii) be unclear as to whether something is meant to be ironic
this is important: be unclear as to whether something is meant to be ironic
>>51134749 I think a lot of the time online people forget that their peers are constantly changing and generally staying the same age. so while one may think people are getting to be dumb and super meta-meta-etc-ironic, it may just be a growing age gap
>>51134693 Meme Music, believe it or not, is actually a very big deal now. It owns a serious influence over popular media as a whole.
Meme Rap, Vaporwave, Sam Hyde, Eric Andre, Parker Ito, Fashion Trends, alt-comics, Wes Anderson, the Social Media-- There's a real common thread between all of these things, they seem to fit with one another perfectly. It's easy to write them off as just 'oh that's internet hipster meme shit', and that may very well be true-- but that doesn't negate its extraordinary power.
Art trends are going somewhere, I don't know where and what it means. But Meme art is definitely a force to be reckoned with.
I think we're starting to see a re-acceptance of cliche and genuine feeling. A lot of this post-ironic music, to me, seems to be incredibly biting yet full of genuine affection for what its judging. The Far Side Virtual is a prime example.
>>51134740 damn, some serious shit philosophy ITT FTFY
>>51134787 I dunno man, I feel like that video's just embracing that aesthetic (whatever you want to call it) without actually making anyone scratch their heads wondering how ironic it is. This makes me wonder- if post irony is actually thought of as a movement, how could it be post ironic? Everyone would know what the movement means. there'd be no question of its intent
>>51134772 That's a fair criticism of the argument, and I don't feel like it's at all disprovable. My impression, however, is that a lot of the really annoying reddit-tier memes are age gap based whereas a lot of the /mu/-niche memes are a bit more meta. That could very well be my bias, but my reasoning for this is there is a lot of rehashing that lacks sincerity which fits the meta profile.
>>51134803 >without actually making anyone scratch their heads wondering how ironic it is that's the point it is an unapologetic love song with a shallow, simple aesthetic post-irony doesn't mean something needs to be complex and layered
>>51134858 Juxtaposition of Kanye's fighter-love song with a visual array of the grand canyon, horses, motorcycle. It would be just ironic if it were self-aware of how bad it was, but there's no serious evidence of any sarcasm or contempt.
One could even argue that Bound 2 itself is a bit of a post-ironic, maybe even new sincere anthem, as it-- with its 80sesque chorus, mixed with hardcore rap and death imagery, commands of fucking and stereotypical high-class bling culture, is still meant to express true, emotion. It's supposed to be cliche because Kayne loves cliche.
What really drives this home is the fact that it's being sung over an old classic, unironic, soul-pop song sung by little children.
Basically, It's cheesy content employed in a genuine, appreciative manner.
>>51134943 I think it's organic. Some people are totally defined by their career, and others aren't at all. It's a reflection of your values and priorities/inclinations or whatever, so I guess since you're a sum of your values in a way, they can serve as a proxy for who you are as a person.
You think you know thre game. You dont even know what it was made ofr. the construct in whciny ou are sued ot was only a concept mad ebyt eh febele minded over thinker sof a cioety in whicn we learnt was not the direction in whcih wanted ot head but were doomeed to go in anyway. the presure of s soce3iuty were too much to comrpehehdn because the midlesnss intake of a mdeia machine caused us to loose our sense of free thinking. we mbecame sheep who folowoe dth shsepppahred,. cogs in a mchien that wa sonly a matter of time befpor ew elost our midns completeyuly, becomign much and pulllar or constantfitlt ejshuejneemne in ateks of the grabnians setpsssslse of time tht e time we had on our hands was too muych but enevr enough for the decusions which wee crucual
>>51135102 I dont wanna go full on feminist but fathers like Ian and Kurt were damn selfish. My friend lost her dad at an early age. Like there are phil 101 classes for fuck sake that try to say a woman isnt gonna kill herself after the death of her husband because she has kids and loves them but damn fathers u selfish
>>51135099 I thought overuse made them more ironic? Because if you're aware of a repetition, and actively pursue to overuse--say, a joke, aren't you deliberately working against the purpose of a joke, thus being ironic?
To me, post-irony is highly connected to the demise of the "guilty pleasure" as a useful concept. It's no longer cool to say that you feel guilty for liking something, because why the fuck should you feel guilty, you're an autonomous individual with desires and interests so back the fuck off world and just let me listen to Michelle Branch in peace
However, there is still a performative aspect to the act of proclaiming your love for Michelle Branch, because as a hip and relevant 21st Century (Digital Boy), you're likely well-aware of the fact that she isn't exactly a critical darling. This is where post-irony comes in - you're not supposed to just say you like Michelle Branch, you're supposed to couch it in an "ironic" joke WHICH STILL MAKES IT CLEAR TO THE READER THAT YOU ACTUALLY LIKE MICHELLE BRANCH.
That is post-irony: being allowed to like things that are deemed "uncool" while still acknowledging their subordinate position in the cultural hierarchy.
>>51135126 Not bad, but I'm not 100% on board with your reasoning for the demise of the "guilty pleasure". It seems to me like, as far as music is concerned, guilty pleasures died as concept as part of a backlash against the whole "wrong generation" or even anti-pretentiousness phase we're in.
Autonomy from a strong independent music listener who don't need no judging is a great theoretical reason but I don't think people are there (nor will they ever be).
Ian, I'm not so sure. With Kurt it was more about the drugs and him thinking his child would be better off without him, even though that's obviously not true. He could've quit (Yeah I know it isn't easy. No seriously, I know)
With Ian, he was just a fucking mess, to where his child might actually have been better off without him. Everything was sort of stacked against him, I honestly don't blame him
Post-irony is rejecting the idea of irony because you reject really feeling one way or the other. We are transient, and thus there is no true feeling or true expectation. There is only the present and the now. There are no preconceived idea or notions in post-irony. You aren't making fun of anything. You just are.
>>51135176 If I ever become a dad I would know instantly that if I died my daughters would become daddy issues sluzzas who could fall in love with older men and fuck everything that moves just to feel daddys love
>>51135218 >>51135218 But there is no goal. Sometimes it's for a purpose, sometimes it's not, sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's not. The mood and atmosphere changes, sometimes sincere, sometimes ironic, because they are both the same. Sometimes some times?
>>51135235 But I don't get it. It's not about an attack or being funny. I am making fun of you by not making fun of you, and not making fun of you by making fun of you. It's not about the intention, but the action. And that action is fueled by an intentionless intention.
>>51135247 Okay, so explain to me how Yung Lean, the epitome of "meme rap", would fall under post-irony and not New Sincerity.
In the above music video (probably), he types 2002 into Google on an iPhone. I'm assuming he does this because he has a genuine affinity for, or at least a genuine interest in, the year 2002. Why else would he do it? To poke fun at the prevalence of nostalgia in today's media, maybe, but considering his age he likely has nostalgic memories of that year as well. Is this not New Sincerity, then, to announce to the world that yeah nostalgia is fucking lame, but I'm going to do it anyway? Then again I really dislike Yung Lean so I might be completely misinterpreting this whole thing but whatever
My point is that there's a ton of overlap between the two concepts and there's no finite boundary where one stops and the other begins. In other words, no one "gets" it.
>>51135076 Well Swans are pretty post-ironic, imo. I only enjoy To Be Kind because the droning literally makes me angry. It's the musical equivalent of going on the internet and arguing with trolls for fun.
>>51134605 I went to a Danny Brown show a week ago and the guy who opened for him was doing this vaporwave sadboys meme shit with kaleidoscoped footage of N64 games and anime on a screen in the background. Apparently 17 year olds are way into that shit now.
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