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>I am white
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music

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>I am white
>And I've got everything I need
>No one clutches their purses when they're in a room alone with me
>And I can drive through any neighborhood I please
>At any hour, and the police don't do a thing
>I'm a guy getting paid more than a girl with a degree
>And I can walk down the streets after dark
>No one wants to rape me
>And I can get a girl pregnant
>And just as easily flee
>Just like my straight white male dad did to me

My respect for this band just went through the roof.
>>
They're kinda underrated on /mu/. I dig them. Seeing them in a couple weeks.
>>
Yeah it's a great parody.
>>
>>47215490
>parody
Parody of what? The lyics are satirical/sarcastic, yes, but it's not really a parody, per se
>>
>>47215530
Parody of tumblr sjw.
>>
>>47215461

>underrated

you havent been here long m8?
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>>47215563
boy you dumb as hell
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>>47215652
Don't tell me you actually took this seriously?

It's so over the top it reads like a fucking tumblr blog. It's making fun of the "check your privilege" types.
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>>47215678
Then how come everything he says in the song is completely true, huh?
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>>47215652
nah, the song is clearly satirical of the SJW type, it contrasts common superstitions of bringing bad luck with being a straight white male in america, making a point that the so called privilege that Sean has is little more than just that, a cultural superstition
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>>47215678
It's as serious as any other AJJ song, which is to say it's not very, but still definitely has earnesty in it
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>>47215704
Actually the white man is the most oppressed in the western world. You sound like a feminazi shill.
>>
>>47215678
Pfffff, no way

It's making a statement, more or less. It's them more or less checking their own privilege, so to speak. I doubt they're even aware of tumblr sjws.
>>
>>47215314
>no one wants to rape me
That's retarded. I'm so sexy everyone wants a piece of my sweet white ass.
>>
>>47215717
>it contrasts common superstitions of bringing bad luck with being a straight white male in america, making a point that the so called privilege that Sean has is little more than just that, a cultural superstition
THIS
>>
ITT: nearly comedic misconceptions about how social dynamics work
>>
>>47215717
>>47215729
>AJJ fans can be this ignorant
oh my god fuck off
>>
>>47215740
#true most people like whites only
>>
>>47215767
Privilege doesn't actually exist, you do know that don't you?
That's the whole point of the song
>>
>>47215717
The funny thing is that you couldn't be more wrong. I know this might seem like a parody to a /pol/tard, but it's actually completely sincere.
>>
>I'm a guy getting paid more than a girl with a degree

Do people actually believe this
>>
>>47215788
>Privilege doesn't actually exis
Said the white, heterosexual man.
>>
>>47215729
Yeah, it sure is tough never being sexually objectified, automatically taken seriously by literally everyone and having the majority of top corporate positions
>>
>>47215788
Lol I'm no sjw but come on, white privilege is a thing
>>
I refuse to believe there are people who can miss the point of this song so fucking much and twist it to their beliefs
>>
>>47215767
>ignorance
instead of
>having different views

this is why I don't like tumblr. They preach equality and everyone's pretty up until you think different.
>>
>>47215827
>being such a bigot that my race and sexuality means my opinion is less worthwhile
>>
how can people talk about how great it is to be white and in the same breath say white privilege is an sjw fallacy
>>
>>47215788
>>47215717
>>47215678
Is this a clever troll or do you people actually believe this? I know the lyrics don't fit with your MRA worldview but the song is clearly about privilege.
>>
>>47215788
I think we're listening to a different song broe
>>
>AJJ
Shit taste and shit political opinions.
>>
>>47215853
>this is why I don't like tumblr. They preach equality and everyone's pretty up until you think different.
hahaha, what?

>>47215855
>wahh stop being so intolerant of my intolerance!
>>
>>47215832
Are you living in India or Iraq?
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>>47215314
>>47215461
>>47215530
>>47215652
>>47215704
>>47215767
>>47215790
>>47215840
>>47215855

fuck off fuck off just fuck off with your shit fucking band and your shit fucking opinions. this website isn't for you, go somewhere else. please???
>>
you don't know your own power
you don't know what you're worth
you don't recognize your valor
and until you do nothing you do will matter
>>
I can accept the fact that there are some people who are blind to social prejudices and I can accept that there are some people who don't understand that the song is about white privilege actually existing. But I refuse to believe that anybody could be stupid enough to claim to be an AJJ fan and think they're in any way joking. The song is hyperbolic and humorous, sure, but it's also sincere.
>>
>>47215461
I'm also seeing them in Chicago in July. I'm so hyped.
>>
>>47215839
>Says not a sjw
>White privilege is a thing

I'm not a racist but black people are more likely to mug you.
>>
>>47215855
Your opinion is less worthwhile on these issues because you don't experience them the same way as those who experience racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
Or to put it in a different way: you'd listen to someone who's worked at say McDonald's opinion on being a McDonald's employee more than somebody who's eaten at McDonald's before
>>
>>47215873
Yes, it's about a version of privilege that exists in the public consciousness
But the crucial part of the song is this

>I've got a pile of broken mirrors and I'm walking under ladders
>and I'll spill a ton of salt because to me that doesn't matter.
>'Cus my skin and my gender and my orientation
>are the best things to have when you live in this nation.

He's talking about superstitions of bringing bad luck, superstitions that people once commonly believed
And then directly contrasting them with the more modern superstitions, superstitions of privilege
i.e. privilege is modern society's version of ancient and outdated superstitions

THAT is the point of the song
>>
What song is this anyway?
>>
>>47215946
Funny cause middle eastern countries have had female leaders and America hasn't
>>
>>47215946
Are you living in the suburbs under your mom and dad's roof or in a gated community in your mom and dad's mansion?
>>
>>47215950
>every tumblr-core teenage girl I've ever talked to has resorted to this when confronted with different ideas.


I don't even preach men's shit. but this is always hilarious.
>>
>>47215970
>I'm not a racist but...
This is a great way to announce to the world that you're a racist.
>>
>>47215978
Andrew Jackson Jihad - American Tune

it is an amazingly satirical view on privilege in modern society
>>
>>47215921
>haha, what
not
>I'm rustled by what you said, but I can't think of any way to combat it.
>>
To all the retards who think that this song is a "SJW" parody:

>Especially the song American Tune from the record "Knife Man". Can you tell us more about that song?

>Sean: That's probably the most truthful I've ever been in a song.

>I've noticed recently that in live shows, Sean has replaced a lot of lyrics that could be construed as misogynistic (changing it to "deep down in your balls" in "We Didn't Come Here To Rock" comes to mind), and has outright stopped playing songs like Lady Killer. Has this been a conscious decision, in line with songs like American Tune? If so, that's punk rock as hell.

>Preston: yes, exactly, that is a conscious decision.
>>
There's nothing appealing about AJJ's "social justice music" when it's all just cliche social justice phrases put in song form. I'm all for fighting for equality and listening to music that expresses a desire for equality, but AJJ doesn't bring anything orignial to the table. Someone already pointed this out, but it's like what any entry-level tumblr social justice blogger would post.
>>
>>47216009
>not getting the joke.
>>
>>47215970
christ kill yourself
>>
>>47215799
I want to stab myself when i hear people, especially australians, tell me that women get paid less than men.
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>>47215461
>underrated
>on /mu/

laff out loud
>>
>>47215985
Funny how the female Pakistan president was assassinated by the talibans.

Funny how women from India (Asia not middle eastern you ignorant twat) that gets convicted FOR GETTING RAPED.

Funny how women in middle eastern countries do not get the same rights as you sjws.

Comparing 'leaders' to common people who do not have basic rights is absurd. What's next, Africans have better freedom than us because the government is not spying on us?
>>
>>47215975
see
>>47216058
And get fucked
>>
>>47215975
I'm pretty sire that the verse is implying that being white let's you get away with anything. Nothing to do with privilege being a superstition
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>>47215839
white privilege is a thing, in white countries where the predominant population for hundreds of years has been white people.
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>>47215989
I live in Thailand asshole. Want to get out of the tourist attraction and go to the slums? I bet your white ass you get mugged.
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>>47215314
I was walking down the street at a faster pace than the girl in front of me the other day while wearing a hoodie because it was raining. I coughed and kept walking and the girl looked back and started running away like I was going to rape her. I am a skinny white kid. I am not saying her concerns aren't justifiable in today's world, it just felt weird.
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>>47216112
#yesallwomen
>>
its a fucking parody because barely anything they are saying is even true, at least not black and white 100% THATS TRUE.

its taking a SJW's view in white privilege to the extreme, which makes it humorous

ITS A PARODY.
>>
>>47216009
This comment is a great way to announce to the world that you were dropped as a baby.
>>
>>47216131
fucking thankyou, at least someone else gets it
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>>47216103
So...you're in Thailand...commenting on what it's like to be a straight white male in America like you're an expert on the matter?
>>
I'm glad there are at least some people on /mu/ who aren't totally politically ignorant fedoras
>>
>>47216097
Well yeah. Do people actually argue that white privilege exists outside of places with a white-majority population?
>>
>>47216070
What's wrong baby? Can't handle an opinion?

>hurr durr i can't come up with an educated opinion therefore pls an hero
>>
>>47216078
It's true though.
>>47216086
Women clearly have it bad in the middle east. I was merely pointing out an instance where even the middle east has been more progressive than the states. Just because things are worse in Pakistan or India does not invalidate lesser inequalities in the western world. That's a fallacy.
>>
>>47216131
>>47216150
Why are you morons ignoring this:
>>47216058
>>
>>47216165
Doubt it. But socially ingrained class systems still exist. Which is basically what people mean when they refer to class systems
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>>47216165
This.

Such a fucking stupid idea that white privilege is a global phenomenon. You go to a country and generally speaking, the predominant race tarts lived there for hundreds of years will have more privilege, just like you go to someones house and you can't do whatever you want because they have privilege in their own home.
>>
>>47216097
...Yes?
You subtly saying no shit its a thing doesn't really devalue people saying its a thing...
>>
>>47216211
Par, you know, that how colonisation thing
>>
>>47216211
>Such a fucking stupid idea that white privilege is a global phenomenon.

Its not
Anyone who treats it as such is a retarded tumblr stereotype who took one sociology class and felt entitled to use terms they don't fully understand
>>
>>47216197
if its not a parody then it's just stupid and lyrically uninteresting
>>
Can you be racist against white people?
>>
>>47216211
>just like you go to someones house and you can't do whatever you want because they have privilege in their own home

Or like when someone kidnaps you from a home across the street, forces you to live with them and makes you do their chores for a few hundred years :^)
>>
>>47215314
>through the roof
>not out the window
>not realizing this song is poking fun at SJWs due to the fact that Sean's life was in fact NOT made any easier by his "privilege" [see: rest of the album]
>>
>>47216257
Try going to any African or Asian country
>>
>>47216211
Does anyone say that? Possibly in terms of America's cultural media dominance?

But its still definately a thing in America
>>
>>47216257
no, but you can be prejudiced.
>>
>>47216257
You can be prejudiced against white people, or any real group of people for whatever reason, but racism is generally seen as a social, political, economic, etc systematic thing, which, in the U.S. on the whole, doesn't affect white people
>>
>>47216257
Of course you can, but it sort of derails topics when you're talking about racism in the united states.
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>>47216153
What was the comment again that I was replying?

>Are you living in the suburbs under your mom and dad's roof or in a gated community in your mom and dad's mansion?

Thailand is now under coup-rule. I'm just lucky that the place I live is consider 'safer'. That I don't get attacked by my own people.

Also my original comment is for someone who claims about being sexually objectified (which everyone regardless of who you are will experience in some point), automatically taken seriously (which I find it absurd) and having the majority of top corporate positions (proves that the person who said this does not know simple economics) is a white male. Unless you're living in India or some parts of the middle-east, I find it funny how people can take that seriously.

My comments on being a straight white male is for the sjw who comment on me before. Not sure its you or not.
>>
>>47216302
Or rather, doesn't lead to dehumanization or oppression of white folks like it does people of other races, I should say.
>>
>>47216275
Can /pol/tards read? I've pointed this out to three people now.
>>47216058
>>
>>47216165
On a global scale, white privilege becomes mostly western privilege: where if you're white/from the west you are in an inherently better situation than non-western people.
>>
I dunno, I'm gay and and foreign and I personally don't like this 'check your privilege' shit at all. It makes minorities seem like complaining little bitches, and it frames it in an accusatory manner. Its the same thing as calling somebody a pleb and recommending them a good album but they dont want to listen to it because you've framed it in a hostile way, even if you had the best of intentions. Also there is a shit tonne of female privilege that is never addressed and the denial of misandry in these circles is disgusting. Not like there is any gay privilege, but I don't act like a fucking faggot so my sexuality never effects my standing in public because I still act like a goddamn man.

>>47216112
I had a similar experience, except I'm a tall wog and you wouldnt know I were gay unless I told you so it was probably worse. As she was running I yelled out with a thick homo lisp "relaxth darling, I don't thwing that way!"

Little bitch still ran tho. Who has more SJW points btw? Gay yet masculine men of colour or straight white women?
>>
>>47216275
and especially in reference to the line
>Just like my straight white male dad did to me
a theme which Sean commonly writes about in his music (see the song Who Are You?)
>>
>>47216090
Nah, its more like
>it doesn't matter if I bring all this bad luck upon myself, because these are all just superstitions that don't actually mean or affect anything, nor will my so-called "privilege" do anything to counteract this bad luck

He's basically saying that his privilege is an imaginary solution to the imaginary problem of bad luck.
>>
>>47216343
A few fucking posts above you:
>>47216327
>>
>>47216275
>in a band making millions and living comfortably

Yup that white privilege didn't work out at all
>>
>>47215314
kazoo ruins this track
>>
I don't know if OP is just incredibly new, or he really meant to bait the /pol/ cross-board.
Either way, shit thread. Don't know why I'm surprised, this is what happens basically any time someone brings up AJJ now.
>>
You know, Sean's dad walking out on him explains why he acts and thinks like such a pussy beta

http://therationalmale.com/2012/11/21/promise-keepers/

This article makes the point better than I ever could.
>>
>>47216339
I sort of feel like the whole gay/foreign thing is made up to try to make your argument seem more valid.

Even if it's not, it doesn't really mean anything because you're full of shit.
>>
>>47216366
>in a band making millions and living comfortably

kek
>>
>>47216337
Will that western privilege help you from getting mugged in some African ghetto?
>>
You guys are ducking retarded if you don't realise this is White Guilt: The Song.

You're lying to yourself trying to pretend its satire (you also don't know what the word means) or a parody. The point is they feel privileged and guilty.
>>
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>>47216186
>I was merely pointing out an instance where even the middle east has been more progressive than the states.
>Pointing out a single female president in Pakistan as the achievement.

Not having women going up for presidential candidates and you blame a certain class/race/sexuality? Wow you're really as ignorant as I thought.

Instead of pointing fingers, either women stop getting that women studies degree and get something useful. I will definitely support that but I won't support whining.
>>
>>47216366
how can you claim that his white, male privilege allowed him to make millions and live comfortably? i feel like that would have to be justified by some sort of statistical analysis that i'm sure you haven't done, especially considering the fact that his music rejects the idea that he should be better off than nonwhite males
>>
>>47216366
>making millions and living comfortably
>ajj
hahahahahaha
>>
>>47216402
>MRA PUA blog

Not even once.
>>
>>47216419
Go back to /pol/
>>
>>47216247
What, like social justice, a term that you guys are fucking terrified of?

I love how you all fear it. Like- oh my god, how fucking terrible it would be to have a just social stance. How awful it would be to fight for people to treat each other equally, now that our legal rights are even. No, no, we're not those silly tumblr kids, we're big grown-up edgy men with our right-wing opinions who think everything's so hard for us!

Yeah, we're the mature ones!
>>
>>47216402
Well this looks fairly---
>feminized social conditioning red pill
Nevermind.
>>
>>47216457
*reblogs*
>>
>>47216197
Do you even New Criticism?
>>
>>47216418
Go to a ghetto anywhere in the world and you'll get mugged; they're fucking poor and they need money idiot. They wouldn't mug me because I'm white, but because I have money.
But yes, as a person from the West, mugging me comes with significantly worse consequences than mugging a non-western person. Nobody cares when some poor guy from the ghetto gets mugged, but when some American on vacation in India gets mugged it's all over the news.
>>
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>>47216427
le epic feminazi meme image!!!
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>>47216276
This.
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>>47216257
>Can you be racist against white people?

You don't travel much do you?
>>
>>47216457
Great post.
>>47216457
Predictable response.

Sadly, you won't get an actual response from the /pol/tards here because they can't handle logic.

Now someone can totally win the argument by quoting me and tipping a fedora.
>>
>>47216524
did you mean to link >>47216470
?
>>
>>47215971
and yet somehow people who aren't white males seem to know everything about white males
>>
>>47216547
Yeah. Sorry.
>>
>>47216155
but there sure are a lot of beta cuckolds apparently
>>
>>47216560
Odd, I thought we were discussing a track in which AJJ discuss their awareness of their privilege. On a male/white-centric board.
>>
yeah straight white males suck but straight white self-loathing males are gr8 :^)
>>
I'm Jewish, do I experience white privilege?
>>
>>47216498
This is not >>>/b/, post an educated opinion or don't make yourself look like a retard.
>>
>>47216584
That's probably the one fetish I'll *never* manage to completely understand
>>
>>47216584
>beta
DONE YOUR REPS TO BUILD YOUR 'TOIDS TODAY BRUH
YEAH I JUST GOT BACK FROM THE GYM MAKIN MYSELF A PROTEIN SHAKE HAHA SO I'M READY TO FIGHT A FUCKIN LION AND EAT IT YEAH
ALPHA AS FUCK DUDE YEAH HAHA
>>
>>47216584
and /mu/ proves to the world that patriarchy and privelege don't exist by reenforcing said principles
>>
>>47216410
Hah, I can see why. I'm not a very typical homosexual. I dunno, I realised I was gay at a young age, but I've never seen it as anything that affected me in a way other than what I was sexually attracted to. Like, its not a huge aspect of my identity. I also have a fetish for tickle torture, I dont feel a need to parade THAT around and gain acceptance about that. I feel the same way about liking dudes, I feel like a lot of gay guys are really feminine in their tought process and are desperate for social validation, they dont understand stoicism at all. Like, when I said I was foreign I meant I'm Greek. So naturally I really look up to the Spartans, because they are some of the biggest baddasses in history, totally fucking masculine and also a big bunch of homos, yeah they liked to be well groomed but NOBODY would argue that they were nancy boys. Anyway, yeah, I guess thats where I'm coming from, its like this quote I once read:

"When men see an ideal male, they aspire to be that man, like James Bond. When a woman sees an ideal woman, she makes a tumblr about how that ideal is not real, or not what men want, or a crazy obsessed person who hates themselves. Men climb the mountain to reach the top, women complain there is a mountain top, and declare wherever they are to be the new mountain top."

I mean this in the sense of the feminized gay guys obsess over privilege of expression so they can have a shitty excuse to act like passive women. That said, I don't get a long with a LOT of other gay guys. They have these feminine mannerisms that creep me out, they act more like weird crosses between the sexes. I'm only really interested in really masculine guys, but they tend not to be interested in me since they want twinks or what-have-you. I dunno, maybe I'm just weird too. Also, this attitude of "declaring a new mountaintop" is where you get modern feminism and women bitching about EVERYTHING you can think about. Men who adopt this are traitors.
>>
>>47216611
Sorry, I thought we were posting meme images and attacking strawmen.

I guess when I do the same I get redirected to /b/. Silly me.
>>
>>47215314
The fact people respond to this without putting s in the email.
>>
>>47216427
>tranny
>woman
>>
>>47215971
This is an argument that I can never agree with. You don't have to be less privileged to have an opinion that matters because these are issues that can be intellectualized. Of course, being less privileged allows one to understand these issues from a different point of view, but as someone who is straight, white, and a male and supports equality, I take offense at the idea that my opinion is less valuable because "I'm incapable of understanding what it's like to work at McDonald's and to form an opinion based on it."
What you should have said is that his opinion is based on a skewed perception of reality, and is therefore a bad opinion as it isn't founded on objectivity.
>>
>>47216668
Did you even read my original post? Or it was a knee-jerk reaction because I post that picture.
>>
>>47216679
No one has mentioned transgendered people in this thread. What are you getting at?
>>
>>47216453

I don't post on pol.

I don't see how you can read those lyrics and think the context is anything other than them acknowledging their privilege.
>>
>>47216679
The woman in that picture is a tranny? I did not realised that. I just google imaged it.
>>
>>47216613
/fit/ is the most beta of all the boards
>>
>>47216498
You see, this picture is perfect... but here's why. The guy attacking masculism is a fat undesirable looking goofball. Look how HARD he's trying to identify with the feminine, trying to supplicate and think like a female as if it will get him laid. Christ, he's fucking pathetic.
>>
>>47216131
It's not a parody. They make it as blunt as possible, but it's not a parody.

AJJ is sarcastic, but they aren't THAT sarcastic. Hell, they won't even play Lady Killer anymore because they think it's sexist.
>>
>>47216700
I did, you included a picture titled "you" with a feminist stereotype and some really dumb memetext. Then you tell "women" to "stop getting that women studies degree" and imply that women's studies is useless. You equate any cause that women have to "whining" and announce that you won't support whatever arguments you arbitrarily decide aren't valid because some women in the world are treated even worse. Why exactly should I bother giving you a thoughtful response?
>>
>>47216704
the woman in the linked image >>47216427
is transgender, but everyone that makes le epik meem images from it thinks it's just an ordinary feminist
>>
>>47216459
>>47216437
See, I don't understand why you don't actually read it and give your real thoughts? Do you exist in an echo chamber where you just want the same thoughts recited back to you ad nauseum? You're being close-minded and you may be able to learn something of value.
>>
>>47216131

It isn't. You want it to be because you like the band but disagree with the message of the song. But the message is simple; he feels it's unfair how much better off he is than non straight white males.

You shouldn't be offended by that, for the record. If you've ever had female friends or friends from another ethnicity they'll have stories you can't imagine.
>>
>>47216715
The alpha/beta dichotemic concept is based around primitive ideas that are usually common in people overdosed with testosterone. The whole thing's based on an idea that we live in a primitive non-society where the rules that dominate some animals (strength, social systems humans don't have) run our lives, because some women find it appealing.
>>
>>47216727
did you read the sign he's holding?
>>
>>47216685
There's a difference between intellectualization and lived experience though; the whole "you can't learn to plow by reading books" thing. Anybody can have an opinion on anything they like, and their identity or lot in life doesn't inherently disqualify their opinion, but I'm going to put less weight on an opinion removed from one's day-to-day existence than one that's informed from that lived experience.
>>
>>47216776
Because I've already read several MRA/PUA literature and blogs and I don't really feel like subjecting myself to another shitty one just because you introduced it.
>>
>>47216783
Yeah, my gf tells me all the time how back in high school guys would just grab girls boobs and butts. Then again, they never actually tried to get them to stop, or went to the administration...
>>
>>47216776
these are the same people that loved an incredibly blunt song reinforcing their own principles

there's no point in trying to provide an alternative view point, especially if it's from a fedora blog
>>
>>47216797
He's just using the same roundabout logic that the people trolling this thread are using to claim that AJJ parodied the social justice movement.
>>
>>47216769
Why would this person being transgendered make them any different from an "ordinary feminist"?
>>
>>47216707
That's what I'm saying. He's making fun of masculism and he looks like a total loser. He's a sucker for the identification myth

Far too many young men maintain the notion that for them to receive the female intimacy they desire they should necessarily become more like the target of their affection in their own personality. In essence, to mold their own identify to better match the girl they think will best satisfy this need. So we see examples of men compromising their self-interests to better accomodate the interests of the woman they desire to facilitate this need for intimacy (i.e. sex). We all know the old adage women are all too aware of, “Guys will do anything to get laid” and this is certainly not limited to altering their individual identities and even conditions to better facilitate this. It’s all too common an example to see men select a college based on the available women at that college rather than academic merit to fit their own ambitions or even choose a college to better maintain a pre-existing relationship that a woman has chosen and the young man follows. In order to justify these choices he will alter his identity and personality by creating rationales and new mental schema to validate this ‘decision’ for himself. It becomes an ego protection for a decision he, on some level, knows was made for him.
>>
>>47216830
TRM is fucking abysmal, you don't need to bother.

>>47216776
If I had an inclination that what was posted there was intelligent commentary and not defensive crap, I would.

Would you read some random 11 y/o's rant on why it was unfair his mother took away his ps3 for skipping school? Same concept.
>>
>tfw there are people on /mu/ right now who probably follow blogs like this one unironically

http://checkingoftheprivilege.tumblr.com/
>>
>>47216825
>Implying I can't witness inequality from a white male's POV and still recognize it as an injustice
I understand the whole "we have to stick together mentality," but it's logic like yours that prevents movements from becoming inclusive.
>>
>>47216832
>Then again, they never actually tried to get them to stop, or went to the administration...
What point are you trying to make anon?
>>
>>47216855
Because they weren't raised as a woman and didn't experience the same issues as other feminists did before they transitioned. TERFs exist because trans women need their own movements for their problems, and not to commandeer feminism.
>>
>>47216855
because transgendered women generally don't fight for womens' rights as much as LGBT rights

so they're putting words in his mouth that that kind of person wouldn't likely say
>>
>>47216884
>tfw there are people on /mu/ right now who follow blogs like avoiceformen unironically
>>
>>47216923
>his
you were doing so well...
>>
>>47216841
>Look how HARD he's trying to identify with the feminine

He's not trying to identify with the feminine at all.
>>
>>47216763
>Then you tell "women" to "stop getting that women studies degree"
Tell me what uses does a women studies degree have?

>You equate any cause that women have to "whining"
I said that I will support women(or any race/gender/sexuality) if that were to actually DO SOMETHING USEFUL but I won't if they were to whine and complain about how unjust and mistreated they are. I will make fun of that or give my point of view. In fact I had made fun of MRA before (if you did stereotype me before) Fucking read my post.

>announce that you won't support whatever arguments you arbitrarily decide aren't valid because some women in the world are treated even worse
Tell me how is there any difference between a Women or a Men living in the United States of America?
>>
>>47216897
I never said anything of the sort, see
>doesn't inherently disqualify their opinion
>>
>>47216874
>>47216830
But you're wrong. It is neither a men's rights blog nor is it pua. Yes its a part of the "manosphere" but more than anything else its about ideas and men treating themselves with respect and recognize the feminine paradigm in play that rules over many average men who don't even realise it. Its a blog about looking past political correctness and the emotions of women as WELL as your own and having a real good look at what's actually going on. Frankly, a lot of the concepts he writes about are great and to compare it to those MRA blogs of bitter guys just whining as well as the PUA blogs of simplistic pick up monkeys isn't right. Therationalmale is more than that, its much more informative and deals with concepts of male self actualization.
>>
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>>47216884
>>47216931
>there are people on /mu/ who follow blogs
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>>47216937
Would you rather I had said "it"? A transgendered woman isn't a woman, he's a man with mutilated genitals.
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>>47216861
See, the problem with you is that you're a misogynist retard and you can't imagine a man wanting to be nice to a woman for any other reason other than getting sex, because in your worldview that is what women are good for. You literally can't wrap your head around the idea that someone might actually believe in a social cause and care about their fellow human being. Not everyone is an autistic, manipulative shithead like you.
>>
>>47216967
>there are people on /mu/ who follow dogs
>>
>>47216884
>>47216931
>there are people on /mu/ who visit tumblr at all
>>
>>47216970
>trangender woman
>not a woman
pick one
>>
>>47216988
yeah when I take them out on walks :^)
>>
>>47216991
I pick
>mental disorder
>>
>>47216966
>recognize the feminine paradigm in play that rules over many average men
>not MR blog
Gonna call you on your shit right there.

>>47216991
REKT
>>
>>47216899
It means that men are not like wild animals like SJWs think they are and women over-exaggerate how they're being objectified.
>>
>>47217006
So is autism :^)
>>
>>47217003
>>47217020
(^:
>>
>>47216899
These girls enabled and essentially encouraged this type of behavior by refusing to stop it. That the idea that men are misogynistic by nature and not by learning is hilarious. That the idea that any sort of 'privilege' exists for any reason other than that unprivileged groups allow it to exist is hilarious. Privilege is not inherent to sex, race, orientation, or anything else. Privilege is granted to the privileged by the 'oppressed.'
>black people put at disadvantage as result of slavery
>"Hey, rather than integrate them in to the rest of white society, lets further marginalize them by indefinitely reminding them that slavery happened, and that everyone should feel bad! That way, we can create all sorts of "reparation" programs, to make sure that blacks will never become self-sufficient, and will always stay 2nd class citizens!"
>>
>>47216923
It's irrelevant what transgendered people "generally" fight for. Anyone can be a feminist. Even straight, white men. The idea that feminists have to look a certain way is a stereotype.
>>47216937
Sorry, how can you get on his cause for transphobic language and in a previous post show support for TERF?
>>
>>47217020
>what is gender dysphoria
>>
>>47216954
You did say
>I'm going to put less weight on an opinion removed from one's day-to-day existence than one that's informed from that lived experience.
The real problem is that you don't believe an objective view of society can be established unless you're unprivileged, which is stupid.
>>
>>47217020
Autists receive treatment in order to reduce the effect it has on their lives. If only trannies had had help as a child to prevent them from mutilating themselves.
>>
Successful people in the real world don't care about tumblr memes, it's probably semi-earnest
>>
>>47216970
Also, gonna go ahead and address:
>there are no gender neutral pronouns
I dunno if English is your first language, so I'll cut you some slack. "They" can be used in singular as well as plural; as in "so they're butting words in their mouth that that kind of person wouldn't likely say".

>>47217015
SJWs tend to decry the claims of "but we're just animals", actually.
>women over-exaggerate
No, they're just taught to under-react.

>>47217043
You can support trans people without putting them in feminism. Trans Exclusionary doesn't mean Anti-Trans. It means to exclude Trans women from feminism.
>>
>>47216966
It links to The Red Pill on reddit. I don't care to read a blog that affiliates with a misogynist subreddit.
>>47217014
Also that.
>>
>>47216986
Haha, you couldn't have me more wrong. I'm >>47216648... i.e. a homosexual. I have no interest in women. I have a few female friends, but the good ones are few and far between. Keeping in mind I have no sexual interest at ALL in them, my mind isn't clouded by that shit... I'm seeing it clearer than anybody else. Really, think about it. The guy in this picture has committed mental gymnastics beyond belief to justify his view in which he literally denies his own sex's need for rights and puts the pussy on a pedestal. And you say he's fighting for a real good cause? Hah, surely you jest! He is shameful and disgusting. Beta straight guys are the fucking worst, because they never actually realize that they're such chumps, they always find ways to rationalize their supplication to women.
>>
>>47217038
I dunno, the jews did pretty well by constantly reminding the rest of the world of the Holocaust.
>>
>>47217080
>>>/pol/
>>
>>47216058
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING

FUCK THE IGNORANT DINGBATS SHITTIN UP THIS THREAD

TAKE YOUR NAZI HARDCORE AND BULLSHIT MENTALITIES ELSEWHERE
>>
>>47217055

Except isn't an opinion based on lived experience inherently more objective than one based on removed observation? Privilege wasn't even mentioned.
>>
>>47217055
You're operating under the idea that "more or less weight" somehow means "believe or disbelieve". It isn't a yes/no answer because it's not a yes/no question.
>>
>>47217043
I'm saying the point of the image is lost if the person that's in the image doesn't fit the stereotype the author is trying to make in the first place.
>>
>>47217071
>No, they're just taught to under-react.
You don't go out with much women do you?
>>
>>47217074
>I'm gay so I can't be misogynist
Error one. Misogyny is based (mostly, in our western modern culture) on gender politics. Gay guys can be misogynist. Misogyny comes from implicit power structures in how we think of men and women, not just from wanting women for sex.

What "rights" is it he's denying, by the way? What legal thing can men not access that women can, that they need?

>>47217099
Oddly enough, I do, and when they get flirted with by someone unattractive, they shrug it off usually. If a guy gets flirted with by someone unattractive, you will never hear the end of the "fuckin munter whale" that "lunged" at him.
>>
>>47215975
holy FUCK are you an idiot

It's about how being a straight white dude lets you get away with whatever you want
>>
>>47217080
Interestingly enough, they also are the reason for the NAACP. Funny how you can get different outcomes with similar programs, depending on your intent. Also, the US bends to the will of the Jews similarly to how it does so for blacks. The difference, is that Jews have their own nation, and blacks do not. Both Jews and blacks depend on the US for their survival, but the Jews are allowed to appear successful, due to the fact that they have their own land.
>>
Can we please get rid of all political discussion on this board?
>>
>>47217089
>you have to hold the same viewpoint as the music you listen to

the song isn't very good if it's not satire, it's too blunt
>>
>>47216991
The word 'Woman' in transgender woman is just a name-sake for that transgender to be identified. That person is in fact a Man. He just does not like to be labelled that way and so he called himself a woman.

If he feels that way it is fine. But don't get butthurt when I identified him as a male instead of a female just because I can't see it even though you are as hell look and is biologically a male.
>>
>>47216948
>I will support women(or any race/gender/sexuality) if that were to actually DO SOMETHING USEFUL
The problem is that you consider talking about these issues useless. If you spent a minute reading this thread, you'd see that there's clearly a problem with people accepting that things as simple as privilege exist. How is discussing things useless when the majority of people deny these problems?

>Tell me how is there any difference between a Women or a Men living in the United States of America?
Sure: women are underrepresented in government, men in power decide they can choose what women do with their bodies (abortion), rape culture, wage gap to name a few
>>
>>47215314
>I'm a guy getting paid more than a girl with a degree
You're a musician. You're not the norm.
>And I can walk down the streets after dark
Have fun getting mugged and assaulted.
>And I can get a girl pregnant
>And just as easily flee
Only if she's such a slut that she can't even remember which guy is the father; even then there's abortion if she can't support it.
>>
>>47217096
Not believe/disbelieve, rather matter/don't matter.
>>47217091
On an issue as well documented as this, the difference is negligible. Not to mention that white males are actually a part of "the experience" and witness first hand their privilege over others.
Anyone, regardless of race/gender, who cares the slightest bit about equality can reach the same conclusion feminists have reached without having experienced the butt-end of "the patriarchy" or whatever term you'd like to use to describe the white, male privileged class. It's all right there, in front of us.
>>
>>47217038
Victim blaming 101.
>>
>>47217157
The most left wing part of 4chan? You're pretty much asking for them to chill out with the shootings in the Gaza Strip.
>>
>>47217158

It's already been spelled out by the artist though, the song is sincere. Being wishful about the intent of the song doesn't change the original intent.
>>
>>47217096
Or, to put it differently, it's not a matter of instantly either trusting or not trusting, it's a matter of reliability of sources. A total objective view of all society, whatever that would look like, would be very difficult to form and uphold because of the size and scope of society as a whole. People who experience one or another form of discrimination on a regular basis are generally going to be more knowledgeable and have more specific expertise on their area of discrimination, because they're going to be dealing with it regularly. This isn't in all cases true, obviously, however with a lot of these types of issues, there are a lot of people out there who are going to have something to say on an issue, and it at the very least serves to use as a base metric for finding "all right, this is more likely to lead to good information". Does that make sense?
>>
>>47217071
Most TREF I have seen have been quite anti-trans, and writers like Steinem have despicable views on transpeople. I strongly disagree. I think TREF are doing a great disservice to their cause.
>>
>>47217140
How about NOT getting fucked up the ass in divorce court? The normalization of female against male violence? The less gravity that abuse and/or rape of men has compared to that of women?

Dude, come on.
>>
>>47217140
>Oddly enough, I do, and when they get flirted with by someone unattractive, they shrug it off usually.
I guess the women is have met are more matured.

>If a guy gets flirted with by someone unattractive, you will never hear the end of the "fuckin munter whale" that "lunged" at him.
I'm sorry but I don't get what you're trying to say.
>>
>>47217167
I love when people on 4chan try to prove that gender inequality isn't a thing and swifty contradict themselves but parroting extremely misogynistic rhetoric.
>>
>>47217193

>most left wing part of 4chan
Any prove of this? Seems to be the most pretentious board of 4chan.

>hurr durr pleb taste
>hurr durr no one knows that is good or bad
>hurr durr get out for liking music i don't like
>>
>>47217038
I struggle to see how the oppressed get to allow anything, being, you know, oppressed. Privilege is the spoil of oppressing someone. Men oppress women so we get male privilege.

The label of privilege is now being applied mostly by the oppressed- because they're the ones who suffer for it.

>>47217225
Those are bigots. Simple. Being a TERF doesn't make you anti-trans, but being anti-trans can make one a TERF.

>>47217237
Oh yeah let's just have a look at them statistics for how many men get raped in comparison to women... How many domestic abuse cases are male on female... And as for the divorce court, cry me a fucking river. When my friends stop ALL being afraid to walk home without a man, THEN you can whinge about a slight prevalence for men getting less in divorce cases.

Besides, you get a shitty divorce case? Get a high-paying male job and earn it off.
>>
>>47217191
Victim complex 101
>This bad thing happened once, so to ever hold me responsible for anything after that is victim blaming!
Sorry, skip. Doesn't work like that. To say that blacks are disadvantaged in the US because of slavery, which ended a century and a half ago, or because of segregation, which ended decades ago, is asinine. Would you also have me believe that the Irish are still 2nd class citizens because they were forced into slavery too?
>>
>>47217182

>Not to mention that white males are actually a part of "the experience" and witness first hand their privilege over others.

But experiencing privilege from the privileged view is not the same as experiencing it from the view of the unprivileged. Life is perception, and an experience from one angle cannot effectively cover all the other perceptions of the matter.
>>
>>47217216

what? get off your fucking high horse, socrates. it's easy as fuck for literally anyone to take an "objective" view of society within the scope of a commonly held worldview. you can do it yourself right this fucking moment. what does jethro bumfucker think about niggers fucking his daughter? that one should be pretty easy.

this one might be harder: sycophantic pseudo-buttfuckillectual holds his own completely subjective viewpoints as newton's own scientific proof and takes it upon himself to preach down on the unwashed masses from his twenty foot dildo throne.

fill in the blanks
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>>47217074
Okay. Being gay does not exclude you from being a misogynist nor does it disprove anything that I said.

>pussy on a pedestal, beta, chumps, etc.
If I didn't know any better, I'd swear that you're actually just a retarded PUA. But I guess that by being gay you can claim that you "see it clearer than anybody else". :^)
>>
>>47217214
>It's already been spelled out by the artist though

New Criticism.

>>47217158 can interpret it without the need for the artist's intention.

AJJ song is already out to the public and we are free to interpret and put our meaning to it freely. That makes the song even more beautiful (or ugly).
>>
>>47217238
I'm trying to say that women normalise advances while guys next to never ignore someone showing them sexual interest. Especially if they're an MRA-type, where they'll be all up in her shit after it (and god help her if she's not as interested as she initially thought).

>>47217263
Eh, just an observation I've heard a lotta folks make. I don't know most boards, so I can't really give commentary.

>>47217306
You're welcome to your interpretation. Just make it clear that it's not the intended message of the writer.
>>
>>47217296
>Life is perception, and an experience from one angle cannot effectively cover all the other perceptions of the matter.
Exactly! I love that you said that, because it serves as a perfect response to >>47217216

I'm not dismissing the value of women who experience first-hand discrimination, whereas you are dismissing the second-hand documentation of discrimination that I use as a basis for my view of society. The reality is that both views are important to understanding society objectively.
>>
Wew lad this thread is something special
>>
>>47217306

So is this a direct concession that those who see it as parody of white privilege do so because it suites them more?
>>
>>47217300
Look I'm not the one saying that we can just critically think our way to a full understanding of society and power dynamics here
>>
>>47217156
>>47217156
>bends to the will of...blacks
I'm not sure that's the case.


>Jews have their own nation, and blacks do not.
What is most of Africa?

>Jews are allowed to appear successful
Blacks are encouraged to appear successful, though not by their own culture if the success is in certain fields.

Jews (helped?) create a system in which they benefit, while blacks inhabit a system that claims to be for their benefit. There's a pretty big difference there.
>>
>>47217356
I have infinite regret for coming to this fowl place.

I'm gonna go make a grilled cheese.
>>
i may be drunk but in the morning i will still be drunk

just felt like throwing my two cents in

it felt righ
>>
>>47217263
>left wing
>not elitist
>>
>>47217379
>fowl place
Chicken board is best board.
>>
>>47217288
>men oppress women
I'm sorry, but women choosing to go to nursing school instead of medical school is hardly oppression. Also, whites did not oppress blacks. Wealthy men oppressed poor men. There were plenty of white and black slaves, as there were white and black (albeit much fewer) slavers. This 'privilege' has zero to do with being white or male or straight or cis or anything else, and everything to do with who, historically, was in power. You think white privilege still holds up in the Congo? How bout east Asia? How bout the Middle East?
>>
>>47217237
Family courts are definitely biased, and feminism would address that by addressing the patriarchy that would say, for instance, that women are better care givers and thus need to be given custody.

>The normalization of female against male violence? The less gravity that abuse and/or rape of men has compared to that of women?
The same rubbish I see brought up all the time. MRAs don't care about actually helping men, they just want to stop women from having shelters and the like built.
>>
>>47217300

A lot of unnecessary anger going on here, considering how non-provocative the post you responded to was.
>>
>>47217401

opeople holding pretensions provokes me whick provokes me

its a negative feedback loo[p
>>
>>47217416

This is unreadable.
>>
>>47217295
Well I didn't say anything about blacks or irish, but thanks for attacking those arguments anyways.

The victim blaming comment was directed at your disgusting comments about women "enabling and encouraging" sexual abuse because they didn't report it. It's actually a self defeating thing to say, because those women didn't put a stop to it for the exact same thing that you're doing right now.
>>
>>47217353
In the end, I'm just saying that you should consider the source of information you get is all, and one should acknowledge that power dynamics in society shape and inform peoples' perspectives on societal issues.
>>
I disagree with their political opinion, but fuck do I feel with them.
Depression and anxiety can be pretty funny if sung about right.
They know how to do that.
>>
>>47217396
>here were plenty of white and black slaves, as there were white and black (albeit much fewer) slavers.
A very deliberate distortion of reality. Please go back to /pol/
>>
>>47217431

i categorically refuse to restate
>>
>>47217376
>Africa
Holy shit I'm an idiot. I guess I meant that a state was not created as reparation for past wrongdoings. We didn't create a nation to ship the US's black population off to.

Jews created the system that claims to benefit blacks. Whether or not there's some global conspiracy, the fact that Jews are as overrepresented demographically in American politics as they are, just means that they really do have as much power as people say they do.
>>
>>47217306
Sorry anon, your favourite band are evil tumblr SJW feminazis. Deal with it.
>>
>>47217164
>women are underrepresented in government
Are they really underrepresented? Or they don't want to actually be a candidate and rather do something they enjoy. Freedom of choice.

>men in power decide they can choose what women do with their bodies (abortion)
'People' in power you sexist pig. The problem with abortion is the fetus don't have a choice whether they want to live or not. Unless its medical or life-threatening, simply aborting fetuses is simply lack of responsibility. Your body? How body the fetus body? (By the way I have mix-feeling for abortions.)

> rape culture
Both men and women are objectified in the both in the media and real life, but the million dollar question is does it matter? Continuing with this, how come men being objectified as objects or something sexual no one bats their eyes? (Unless if you're MRA), but if a women gets objectified it is a problem.

>wage gap
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

Learn some fucking economics. As an employer, I want to maximise profit. Who should I hire? A male or female (both have the same experience and skills), if the male 10$/hr or female 6$/hr? If that's the case we would see more female working right?
>>
>>47217459

or maybe the correlation between jews and position in society has as much to do with subcultural (in relation to the macro-oriented AMERICAN DREAM in caps) predelineation as does the predicament of our basketball american compadres

seems a lot simpler than to me than a massive, literally perfectly kept conspiracy
>>
>>47217437
So basically you agree with me
>>
>>47217288
A large study, compiled by Martin S. Fiebert, shows that women are as likely to be abusive to men, but that men are less likely to be hurt. However, he noted, men are seriously injured in 38 percent of the cases in which "extreme aggression" is used. Fiebert additionally noted that his work was not meant to minimize the serious effects of men who abuse women.[30][31][nb 1] Women are far more likely to use weapons, such as throwing a plate or firing a gun.[32]
>>
>>47217455
>Distortion of reality
lel are you trying to tell me that the Irish slave trade wasn't real? Not to mention the thousands of years of white slavery across Europe and Asia.

>>47217483
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jews are out to control the world, or that there's some global conspiracy, just that Jews have a disproportionate amount of power when compared to other demographics.
>>
I think the real issue that needs to be discussed is why equality, something universally regarded as just, takes so much effort to maintain.
Is evil just ingrained in us? Did society corrupt our good nature?
>>
>>47217502

so personal agency has to come into the equation eventually even though you have to consider that while jews didnt come to america with the degree of adversity that blacks did they still weren't greeted with open arms

i think the real conspiracy is in the power-gathering of educated black magnates in the church and the state who propagate and continue to bait the worsening of race relations in favor of the unconditional uprising of the black race
>>
>>47217493
Sort of; my original point basically boils down to "you should take into account the sociopolitical and economic etc factors which inform people's opinions when discussing topics of societal injustice because those are relevant factors" so if you're in agreement with that then yeah I reckon we're about on the level
>>
>>47216186
>It's true though.

That's not the point. Blind freddy can see that the types of industries women work in, in conjunction with the small issue of women settling down to raise children, will cause an inbalance in the median wage of both sexes.

And if you dare argue that such differences are apparent in jobs where both sexes occupy the same position, let me ask you why business owners don't go out of their way to hire women en masse to exploit a competitve advantage?
>>
>>47217339

>Just make it clear that it's not the intended message of the writer.
True enough but they're flaws in the artist's intention.
1. May be exaggerated (or in any art-form) to make the listeners feel or think.
2. Everyone have their own prejudice even the artist themselves. This does not make them any more right than the listener's interpreting them.
3. The song (or any art) that is realised to the public belongs to the public. The work cannot just be solely judge on the meaning given by the artist, it can be in fact be judge by any of us.

Other than that I guess what you had said is fair enough.

By the way all three comments you replied to were made by me.
>>
>>47217471
>Or they don't want to actually be a candidate
Why this is the case should be explored. They are definitely underrepresented and that likely leads many women to not think getting into politics is realistic or something they should do.

>The problem with abortion is the fetus doesn't have a choice whether they want to live or not
This choice doesn't matter, then. The fetus is unable to comprehend the choice, in many cases to feel pain, and the idea that abortions are carried out for a simple lack of responsibility is a much bigger issue than you make it out to be. Why should you bring a kid into the world if you can't offer it a decent standard of living? In a world that is over-populated as it is?

>Both men and women are objectified in the media and in real life
Of course but not in anywhere near the same way. "HURR DURR MEN FACE DISCRIMINATION TOO SO WE'RE EQUAL."
The point is, women are objectified far more often in far worse ways than men.

>Does it matter?
Yes, it certainly does. How you are born or how you are dressed should have no-where near the influence it still does.

>Wage gap article
That article doesn't explain why women are still doing the majority of the housework, caring for children the most, not going for better-paying jobs, and working less hours. Sure, they may only work 77% of the time men do, and work is less-risky jobs, but this in itself is a problem. Men should be performing more of the house-hold duties including taking care of children and women should not feel afraid to partake in risky jobs or jobs which have traditionally been held by men.

>If the male is 10$/hr or female 6$/hr, I'd hire the female
You have a very weak grasp of the problem. Both people are paid the same, it's just that the male is much more likely to be hired regardless of qualification.
>>
>>47217360
Yup, its up to them. I for one don't take this as a parody. But if people interpret that way, its fine for them.
>>
>293 posts later


lel come on.
>>
>>47217471
>they don't want to actually be a candidate and rather do something they enjoy. Freedom of choice.
Who are "they"? These are pretty sweeping statements. Not all women want to be politicians, but many do. The fact that Sarah Palin was the closest thing the US had to a female president is an atrocity.

> The problem with abortion is the fetus don't have a choice whether they want to live or not. Unless its medical or life-threatening, simply aborting fetuses is simply lack of responsibility. Your body? How body the fetus body?
And what about if a woman is raped? Should she be forced to keep the rapists baby and raise it? When do we consider a fetus a human being separate from the parent? And what about the politicians who want to limit contraception for women?

>Both men and women are objectified in the both in the media and real life, but the million dollar question is does it matter? Continuing with this, how come men being objectified as objects or something sexual no one bats their eyes? (Unless if you're MRA), but if a women gets objectified it is a problem.
Men are not nearly objectified to the scale that women are, and women are unique in that they can be exclusively objectified. Of course it matters, but rape culture is really about more than simply objectification. If you want to see a good example of what I mean by rape culture, you can look in this own thread at the guy who said women "enable and encourage" their assaulters by not reporting their assault.
>>
>>47217604
/mu/ is not a particularly bright board.
>>
>>47217515
You're misunderstanding the positions of each side of the conflict. Virtually nobody is arguing against equality. Even nationalists want their society to be equal.

Most of the issue is defining equality. For some, equality is equality of opportunity AND outcome. For others, it's just equality of opportunity.
>>
>>47217502
What does white slavery have to do with slavery in America, which was almost exclusively white men enslaving blacks? How does the Irish slave trade relate to America? You're talking shit.
>>
>>47217468
Hahaha wow so funneh much humor.

I'm only trying to fair. I find it funny how when other people have their views not similar to those people supporting AJJ's intention are taken as being bigots.
>>
>>47217515
There's some good thought put out that points towards capitalism being a main factor, and I'd rather not rehash those sentiments but if you're interested I could point you in the direction of some decent reads on the subject
>>
>>47217396
>women choosing to go to nursing school
Oh yeah, we never tell girls to be nurses not engineers. And I'm sure employers sooo rarely have preconceptions of men being better at some things than women. Also >>47217455

>>47217471
Yeah, I'm sure it's just coincidence that almost all the people in government just happen to be male, and have since the inception of your country. Women have just never wanted to do it...

The fetus' body? What about the fucking woman's life? What if she doesn't want the intense stigma of being a single mother, or wants a career (n.b. things the father doesn't have to worry about)?

>both women and men are objectified in the media and real life
HA! Oh yeah, all those ads with the men in underwear and water for unrelated products. Those men doing sexy voiceovers. Those men getting whistled and catcalled at in the streets 10 times more than women. OH WAIT

And as an employer, you take the men, because no women are applying, because they've all gone to nursing school, or full time mothering, or teaching, or other "womens' jobs". You pay the same rate to both because otherwise you get called sexist. But meanwhile women are doing the jobs they were told to do as kids. The low-paying ones.

>>47217500
So what you're saying is... ultimately we're the same except the hormonal differences we've known about for decades?!? SHOCK HORROR

Look at the actual fucking statistics on who does the abusing though. Women have so many shelters because they need them to get away from the abusive men. Something a much more marginal number of men do.
www.womensaid.org.uk/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=1602

>>47217582
It's still important not to represent your meaning as the artist, as it misconstrues the personality of them and the message of their body of work. An album can make a lot more sense with the artists' definition.

Also, I laughed, genuinely thought you were 3 entirely different people.
>>
Can someone give me the gist of what the fuck is going on in this thread?
>>
>>47217515

People who are weak need a dehumanized 'other' to identify as the antagonist to give their own lives a greater purpose. Acknowledging the possibility that the world is a complex interconnected web of conflicting interests is too terrifying to contemplate, for doing so concedes that those whose interest conflicts with their own are also people who see their own interests and needs as valid or even just.
>>
>>47217637
Fedoras versus SJWs: Smackdown (feat. Andrew Jackson Jihad)
>>
>>47217471
I don't really have time to read that huffington post article, but I wouldn't trust anything Sommers says. She's an MRA. She tried to debunk a rape survey by claiming that drug/alcohol rape isn't "real rape".
>>
>>47217556

this is pretty much hitting it right on the head in my opinion. do your best to throw out notions of masculinity and femininity for a second and envision the perfect worker: one who shows up on time and never gets sick, has to take time off, et ceteris paribus. i get that some people argue that having kids is a biological imperative and i'm in no position to argue that, but at what point do you separate instinct from progress. didn't we get to where we are by transcending our native urge to eat, fuck, kill, and sleep indiscriminately?

the worst disservice modern media/feminism/whatthefuckever does for america is propagating the notion that the idea of a perfect worker is a masculine one. it's an idea bred from a sense of (justifiable) indignation but still incoherent from a logical standpoint.

if you want to get paid on the same scale maybe you shouldn't make the decision to have a fucking kid.
>>
>>47217396
>Women choosing to go the nursing school instead of medical school is hardly oppression

It's systemic oppression in which both men and women are conditioned. It has a worse impact of women, however, as nursing is a lesser-paying job so they are more economically-disadvantaged.

Look up "glass-ceiling." It's pretty applicable to your argument.
>>
>>47217500
There are plenty of studies that show that men and women hit each other at about the same rate. The vast majority of these are Conflict Tactics Scale studies, which are flawed for several reasons. Firstly, they don't differentiate between types of assault. For instance, pushing someone is the same as shoving someone down a flight of stairs. Secondly, they make no distinction between acts of aggression and acts of self defense. Third of all, they don't take into account systematic or patterned abuse, i.e. abuse used to control. They don't take into account abuse that happens after a relationship or a divorce, where the majority of violence happens. I don't know about this study you've cited, and I'm not interested because you MRA's have another one in the waiting, but I want to point out that these studies have flaws.

What is true is that women do hit men and probably more often than people think. What is also true is that men are overwhelmingly more responsible for sexual violence and if you look at FBI crime statistics, women are much more likely to be injured by domestic violence.
>>
>>47217594
>They are definitely underrepresented and that likely leads many women to not think getting into politics is realistic or something they should do.
Victim blaming 101

>Why should you bring a kid into the world if you can't offer it a decent standard of living?
You shouldn't even be having sex if you don't even know safe sex/protection.

>women are objectified far more often in far worse ways than men
Some examples to this? I personally feel those who are offended by the media have their lifes to easy for them and is finding something to point fingers and make themselves feel better.

>How you are born or how you are dressed should have no-where near the influence it still does
Unless you're living in a conservative backwash country, not in USA it won't.

>women should not feel afraid to partake in risky jobs or jobs which have traditionally been held by men.
Again victim blaming 101, prove that you actually willing to risk it. Not blame society or media how women not being portrayed in a certain point of view leads to discrimination. You can think of that why can't you act it out? Talk only...

>male is much more likely to be hired regardless of qualification
Again victim blaming 101, also prove of this? I don't seem to see this from where I live. Seems more of a cultural superstition to me.
>>
>>47217555
I think yes, initially those factors are better determinants of one's views than anything else. Of course, you have to concede that being a male doesn't mean I am inherently biased against feminism.
The only real opinions that are dismissable are the uninformed ones - male and female alike. Dismissing an informed opinion based on that person's gender is retarded though, because object truth outweighs whatever sort of initial bias that person may have.

And that's why my opinion matters, you jerk
>>
>>47217636
>on who does the abusing though
The source you provided doesn't refute my point. It happens to both genders. Women still suffer more from it, yes, but it happens to both genders. Since it relies on reports to police, the percentages may be skewed one way or the other.

>Women have so many shelters because they need them to get away from the abusive men.
I don't really see how that's relevant. There are no battered men's shelters, though I believe there are a few hotlines and some other kinds of shelters will help them.
>>
>>47217628
Irishmen were slaves in America, and Irishmen live in America today. Why are people of Irish heritage not at the same level as people of African heritage? I just think you're stupid for thinking that all whites are advantaged, and all minorities are disadvantaged. Is the success of Asians, Indians, and Jews the result of some privilege that they have over everyone else in the US? Or am I just missing something?

>>47217673
>>47217636
My girlfriend is going to med school. One of her roommates is going to PA school, one is trying to go to med school, the other is going to nursing school, and 2 of her other friends are going to nursing school. All 6 of them started out pre-med, and only two of them are sticking with it. Not because they've been oppressed into wanting to do nursing, but because all 4 of them decided that classes like organic chemistry, cell bio, microbio, genetics, etc. are too hard, and that because they can barely handle undergrad, med school would be too much. I'll never understand why sjw types cling to conceptions of gender roles from the mid 1980s, but it's silly to assume that the "glass ceiling" is the result of oppression, and not personal choice.

Mostly unrelated, but it's a fact that Asians typically get lower rates on bank loans and such. Is that racist?
>>
>>47217716
I also want to point out that these arguments always come up when we talk about women's issues and the real question should be so fucking what? MRAs love to bring up these statistics to "debunk" feminists and that's really their only cause. These same people who claim to be looking out for the rights of the poor oppressed men do absolutely nothing for their cause.

Case in point: an MRA group filed a lawsuit to try to overturn the Minnesota Battered Woman's Act because it was sexist. The lawsuit specified that it did not want any resources to be shifted to men. These people literally are only interested in denying resources to women and don't give a shit about the poor male victims they say are so prevalent.
>>
>>47217637
OP dropped some very lightweight bait in the pool, and /mu/ bit really really hard.
>>
>>47217802
MRA is simply a reactionary group to 3rd wave feminism, that has probably been around as an idea for a decade tops. Feminism has exist for generations. It won't be until they start receiving positive publicity that they'll actually gain the power to start making changes.
>>
>>47217756
>Victim blaming 101
Do you know what victim blaming is?

>You shouldn't even be having sex if you don't even know safe sex/protection.
And yet many of those same politicians want to stop women from getting coverage from contraception. What is it? Do we want women to practice safe sex or abort babies? Or maybe their role is simply to make babies.

>Unless you're living in a conservative backwash country, not in USA it won't.
As a Canadian I can say your country is pretty fucking conservative. Same sex marriage is only legal in 17 states... in the year 2014.

More accusations of victim blaming that make no sense.
>>
>>47217756
>Victim blaming 101
What?

>You shouldn't be having sex if you don't know safe/sex protection
What if it fails? What about rape? Etc
Takes two to tango, why is the onus on women?

>Some examples of this
I dunno, fucking rape, man? The fact that women most often tell guys that are hitting on them in a relationship and can't simply tell them to leave them alone or that they're not interested?

>Unless you're living in a conservative backwash country
It's not as simple as it does or doesn't happen. Gender-discrimination happens to varying degrees nearly everywhere.

>Victim blaming 101
Look up "glass ceiling." Many studies have been done on this. To suggest that you can represent discrimination of individuals without referring to society is fucking retarded.

>Proof
http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/reich/reports/ceiling2.pdf
Just to start...
There's a lot of evidence out there.
>>
Can you please just go to >>>/pol/
>>
>>47217783
see >>47217716

And that was my point. Battered Womens' Shelters and charities are usually set up by victims. So where are the men starting charities? Sure, there've been a couple of efforts starting lately, but nothing near the degree of womens' efforts.

>>47217801
Have you heard of the anecdotal fallacy? Your personal friends' situations don't overturn statistics.
>>
>>47217609
>Who are "they"? These are pretty sweeping statements.
'They' is women.

>Not all women want to be politicians, but many do
Great, so are they actually doing something about it?

>And what about if a woman is raped? Should she be forced to keep the rapists baby and raise it?
Didn't I said that abortion is okay if its medical or life-threatening?

>When do we consider a fetus a human being separate from the parent?
Aren't you an individual separated from your parent's rights? You do have rights and freedom do you? Or your parents get to decide what to do with you, even killing you if you misbehaved.

>And what about the politicians who want to limit contraception for women?
Valid point.

>Men are not nearly objectified to the scale that women are
That's subjective.

>women are unique in that they can be exclusively objectified.
I find that sexist, what makes women more unique as men? Exclusively objectified? Yet female models get paid more than male models. No one forces the female to go and do such things for a paycheck. Those women, independently know their traits do these modelling (or whatnot) and get paid for it. Is that objectification? Jesus Christ didn't feminism though women to be independent and freedom to do whatever the hell they want.

>you can look in this own thread at the guy who said women "enable and encourage" their assaulters by not reporting their assault
Sounds like India to me. Valid point.
>>
>>47217842
This is true. The entire Mens Right Movement is a backlash to feminism. Hell, their founding father is an ex-feminist and he's gone on to write some truly awful things.
>>
>>47217871
>>Men are not nearly objectified to the scale that women are
>That's subjective.
I don't think you know what subjective means. Obviously the intended meaning was "most men do not face the same objectification as most women do" or "the female gender is objectified". This is not something that changes from person to person.
>>
>>47217852
>Same sex marriage is only legal in 17 states
Because it creates a dangerous free for all in terms of what the government can and cannot do. Once you destroy marriage, people will be marrying dogs and cars, simply to avoid paying taxes
>>
>>47217716
https://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
I pulled the quote from Wikipedia, and this is the source.

>>47217802
I wasn't trying to "debunk" feminism. The guy literally asked:
Oh yeah let's just have a look at them statistics for how many men get raped in comparison to women... How many domestic abuse cases are male on female...

All groups should be included in these kinds of issues. Male victims of sexual assault, domestic abuse, etc. are marginalized by the excessive attention women get.
>>
>>47217801
>In one specific anecdotal circumstance, girls supposedly had complete agency in deciding whether to do med or nursing
OMG wow, that must prove it wrong. Of course, not in all situations is the glass-ceiling applicable and there are many cases in which women do nursing all of their own-volition. But, even then, they have still been conditioned throughout their lives that men are the 'breadwinners' and that female-employment post-marriage is largely auxiliary.

>Asians typically get lower rates on bank loans. Is that racist?
Yeah, kind of, but it's not a really bad example of racism. It is somewhat problematic that they charge some groups based on their ethnicity more interest. This should most definitely not occur and rates should be set on their credit rating which should not be impacted by race. I can kinda see why it happens, however.
>>
>>47217886

This is a good parody post.
>>
>>47217866
>usually set up by victims

Can I be allowed to take a page out of the feminist's book and say that the lack of battered men's shelters are due to stigma? Men don't want to be seen as unmanly and getting beaten up by a girl, so they suffer in silence.
>>
>>47217852
>Do you know what victim blaming is
Thank you, I had no idea why he kept repeating the phrase.
>>
>>47217886
kek
>>
>>47217906
I never understood why the slippery slope wasn't valid in the gay marriage debate. Homosexuality was (and still is to some extent) seen as sexual deviance. So is bestiality. Why is it unreasonable to assume that beast marriage advocates won't pop up in a few decades? Or child love advocates? There's already a man-boy love association or something isn't there?
>>
>>47217636
>Yeah, I'm sure it's just coincidence that almost all the people in government just happen to be male, and have since the inception of your country. Women have just never wanted to do it
Then explain to me why not many women wants to be candidates in politics? Playing the victim card? I don't want to work but I want to achieve in life.

>The fetus' body? What about the fucking woman's life? What if she doesn't want the intense stigma of being a single mother, or wants a career
Then don't fuck without protection... you made the mistake, you bear the responsibility.

>things the father doesn't have to worry about
Like childcare? That's being responsible.

>HA! Oh yeah, all those ads with the men in underwear and water for unrelated products. Those men doing sexy voiceovers. Those men getting whistled and catcalled at in the streets 10 times more than women. OH WAIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjPlJJWg7M
Hmmm 50 cent hot ass, nobody cares. Reverse that role, people like you fling to the internet.

>You pay the same rate to both because otherwise you get called sexist.
Strawmen 101
Do you really think they care what they are being called? I for one don't care if someone calls me a retard if the retarded job I do has more pay than a normal job.

>But meanwhile women are doing the jobs they were told to do as kids. The low-paying ones.
Fucking sexist. Are you saying women don't have freewill to decide what they want? Strawmen/strawwomen.Seriously fuck off.
>>
>>47217913

that's not a "kek" at all

where do you draw the line? it's a very fucking real consideration and laughing down your nose and kekking at it doesn't change the fact that there's more to the world than your little self-reinforcing circlejerk of ivory tower entitlement.

what's next on the slippery slope agenda? equal rights for pedophiles? how about after that - murderers?

after all, we are all just products of our environment following blithely along our trodden paths of predetermination.
>>
>>47217871
>'They' is women
Well, yeah, that was obvious. I was trying to push you towards making a statement that didn't make such a sexist generalization. "They," believe it or not, are all individual human beings with different aspirations.

>Great, so are they actually doing something about it?
The first step, of course, is to talk about it, something that you very quickly dismissed. Remember how useless womens studies was? I guess feminism is much the same? Why can't all those women just magically get into power?
Also, remember that America is a democratic society and women need to be voted to get into power.. and not represented by Sarah Palin and Michelle fucking Bachmann.

>Aren't you an individual separated from your parent's rights? You do have rights and freedom do you? Or your parents get to decide what to do with you, even killing you if you misbehaved.
Completely avoided the question I asked. When is a fetus human? When is it a separate entity from the parent? I'm not even going to address this ridiculous analogy about killing a child that misbehaves.
>>
>>47217665
Don't judge a person based on their political belief. Judge the article of what she had said.
>>
>>47217923
Because that's an entirely different debate altogether. The reasons bestiality is illegal are not the same reasons homosexuality once was.
>>
>>47217951

you mean the reasons pro-rights activists choose to direct the conversation to aren't the same reasons homosexuality "once was"
>>
>>47217871
>I find that sexist, what makes women more unique as men? Exclusively objectified?
Women who are good looking are often times immediately dismissed because there is an assumption that good looking women can't be intelligent. Furthermore, many men will completely ignore what that woman has to say because they're only response is how much they'd like to fuck them. Likewise, women who aren't attractive can be completely dismissed because they're ugly. This is something unique to women. Women are paid more for modelling because there is more of a demand for female models, which really only re enforces my original point. Yet, those models are paid terribly low compared to the companies who are profiting off of their image. Yes, women are allowed to model if they'd like, and many feminists would agree that it is a liberating thing. That doesn't change the systematic sexism in our culture.
>>
>>47217923

Slippery slope is a categorical logical fallacy. Also what is ability to consent? Not even absurdest mainstream conservatives trot this argument out anymore.
>>
>>47217923
>Bestiality
Because an animal cannot consent, or we cannot be sure they are consenting.

>Child love advocates
Not children but I think there will be a move away from demonising paedophilia (as long as it has not been acted on) as it is not chosen. Also, the entire "you are 17, you can consent now" is pretty stupid. I mean, sure, there should be safeguards to prevent kids being taken advantage of but a uniform age is pretty retarded. Also the creation of the 'child' as distinct from the 'adult' is kinda problematic.

But the next frontier, in all seriousness, will be polygamy. If it involves a group of consenting adults, why shouldn't it be allowed?

That said, the slippery slope argument still isn't valid as there is always going to be huge resistance to any change from the norm. People who supported interracial marriage did not necessarily support gay marriage, people who support gay marriage will not necessarily support polygamy, etc. Also, the time taken for these deviances to be accepted and legalised is so great that the slope is really not all that slipper.y
>>
>>47217951
I don't think they're very different at all.
>>
>>47217923
bc there are different factors in play when considering each of those subjects, there is no logical reason as to why accepting one means we have to accept all the others, or why they are even associated with each other apart from "sexual deviancy" which is a pretty dubious concept.
>>
fuck this thread
>>
>>47217923
Slippery slope implies that we'll lose a sense of reason if we agree one thing is not as bad as we thought. It's anti-falsifiability; it's working along the line of "if we let the gays get married why can't we let the bestials get married?!?" - it doesn't work because it's not working on the concept of working out where we're wrong in ethics and fixing it, it's making enemies of those who don't agree.

>>47217935
first point: as said before, gender roles from a young age, and because a lot of voters think women would make bad rulers (the fallacy of women being more hormonal than men often crops up).

>don't fuck without protection
rape, faulty condoms, alcohol.

>childcare
Not the same as bearing the child and being given "motherly duties."

>one example that is funny for its contrary nature overturns the norm
Do you go outside and see women and men irl

Who was I strawmanning? And sexism claims can sink a small business or ruin a career.

Are you saying we're immune to doing what we're taught? Do you know how many kids get told to play with other toys and wear other costumes and clothes because of their sex?
>>
this thread sucks
>>
>>47217976
this
this is the thread where /mu/s racist and sexist neckbeards crawl out of the woodwork
>>
fuck all you guys
>>
>>47217995
and also the authoritative egalitarians and sexist free-bleeders
>>
uhg
>>
>>47217888
Yes, I've seen that site a million times. My point still stands. The vast majority of those studies are CTS studies. The people who created CTS have spoken out against the misuse of their studies.
>>
>>47217939

Stringing separate issues under one dubious umbrella is intellectually dishonest.
>>
>>47217939
Dogs and cars cannot consent. Or, even if they could, there is no reasonable way we could know that they were consenting.

Also, the slope isn't slippery. It's very, very, very gradual as we can see from how long it's taken us from accepting interracial marriage to accepting gay marriage.

>Following blithely along our trodden paths of predetermination
kek
Agency + structure. Sure, structure does have a huge influence but to suggest that paedophiles or murderers have no choice in their actions is stoopid.

>Ivory tower entitlement
Sorry, what?
It's funny that entitlement is most often used by white, straight, dudes. And it's hilariously ironic ala "pot calling the kettle black.'
>>
>>47218016
What is CTS?
>>
>>47217852
>Do you know what victim blaming is?
Maybe I choose the wrong words but back to my original argument, people are blaming anything you named it, because they're not enough women going for candidate. Then I asked the question why are those women who wants to be in politics actually BE in politics?

>And yet many of those same politicians want to stop women from getting coverage from contraception
I had already address this in another comment I replied. Valid point.

>As a Canadian I can say your country is pretty fucking conservative
Where do I live? Do you know? Immediately assuming I'm American is a fucking dumb statement.
>>
>>47217866
You mean statistics which show that of the 27 cent wage gap between men and women, 20-22 cents are explained by things such as field of work, level of education, time with the company, etc? The same statistics that the AAUW acknowledged as being true in their Graduating to a Pay Gap report? And you mean the statistics that show that the rest of that gap is explained away by some people as a result of bargaining ability when it comes to arguing your salary?

>>47217900
Anecdote or not, you can't claim something as universally true if a counter example can be provided by some random 20 year old. You can't say that the reason all women are worse off than all men is a result of privilege and oppression, when there are people whose situation is explained by their choice. Just like my story is an anecdote, "statistics" claiming that we indoctrinate the youth into conforming to gender roles are nothing more than a collection of similar anecdotes where the story goes "when I was in 2nd grade, people told me I should take home-ec and art instead of play sports." Funny thing is that statistics are actually showing that young boys are doing increasingly worse than young girls in school. Also, I suggest you look up some recent graduate and undergraduate graduation statistics. Just because there are currently more men in STEM/medicine/law, doesn't mean that will be the same in 10-20 years, especially at the current rate.
>>
>>47217978
>working out where we're wrong in ethics and fixing it

this would be pretty funny if it were an ironic comment, but unfortunately you don't seem to realize that this is precisely the point of the slippery slope argument which you just gloss over.

if you have any ideas on where we're "wrong" in ethics, please feel free to fucking enlighten me and a whole bunch of people since the dawn of the written word way smarter than you, i or any of the retards whose views you're parroting.
>>
>>47218009
whether SJWs are in the right or not, there is no question of AJJs leftist credentials
>>
>>47217969
One debate is whether or not it's ok for two consenting adults of the same sex to be together.
The other debate is whether or not animals are capable of consent in these matters at all.
>>
>>47217944
I will take anything she says with a grain of salt because she's anti-feminist, misogynist and she intentionally skewers things to be pro MRA. So no, I'm not wasting my time reading her article.
>>
>>47218024
I explained it in the post you quoted.
>>
ITT: SRS shows up, gets blown the fuck up, and cries.
predicting a "shut down /mu/" thread in a few hours
>>
>>47218060
>MRA's winning the argument
kek
>>
>>47218060
How to lose an argument: declare you've won.
>>
>>47218056
The source I posted doesn't just quantify abuse like it is claimed CTS does. He repeatedly says that women are more likely to be harmed, and also that women are more likely to use weapons.
>>
>>47218060
>>47218069

This thread has been more grey in its outcome than a one side take all scenario. Of course this fails to appeal to your simplistic desire for score keeping.
>>
>>47218086
If anything, we can say that close-mindedness won the day. Neither side accepted anything in any of their opponents' arguments.
>>
>>47218032
>You can't claim something as universally true if a counter example exists
I wasn't suggesting something universally true. It's more a guideline than an actual rule.

>Statistics are nothing more than a bunch of anecdotes
Well, generally, they are much more thorough and look into the root causes. Also, the thing about having lots of anecdotes instead of just one, is you're going to end up with something that is much more representative of society.

>Young boys are doing increasingly worse than young girls in school
Yeah, mostly. More girls are now enrolled in Uni in most nations. Dudes still tend to do better at Maths and Science and girls tend to do better at English and Humanities which is an issue in itself.
>>
>>47217941
>Well, yeah, that was obvious. I was trying to push you towards making a statement that didn't make such a sexist generalization.
Seriously? A sexist generalization because I used the word 'they'? Whats next I'm sexist because I identify you as male but you want to be identify as female? Sorry, no need to be butthurt.

>When is a fetus human?
When conception first happened.

>When is it a separate entity from the parent?
They had always been. Just because they can't 'voice' they rights doesn't mean it doesn't get a fair chance not to.

>>Or your parents get to decide what to do with you, even killing you if you misbehaved.
>I'm not even going to address this ridiculous analogy about killing a child that misbehaves.
I was exaggerating my point to prove how silly your point is. Of course the parents to not get to kill their child.
>>
i really hate you all

>hur dur you sjw
fuck you
>kek
fuck you
>*sarcastic statement*
fuck you

im out, this is bullshit
>>
>>47218028
And I answered you before, you ignored my post. Women need to be elected. Women need to be represented better than Palin or Bachmann. Americans need to be more open to female politicians, both female and male citizens. Feminism does address these issues.

>Where do I live? Do you know? Immediately assuming I'm American is a fucking dumb statement.
Don't take it so personally, bud. I wrongly assumed you were American, but I called the country conservative, not you.
>>
>>47218028
>Immediately assuming I'm American is a fucking dumb statement
Not really. It's an assumption, and perhaps they should not have taken that liberty, but most 4channers are from the US.
>>
>>47218086
>>47218060
>every argument by MRAs was refuted
>no conclusive evidence or argument from MRAs
I mean, sure, it was grey in outcome simply due to the antipodal nature of the argument but I think one side was a lot more convincing than another (that said, I'm obviously biased but still).
>>
solution: kill everyone
>>
>>47218095

I don't know. On at least two occasions there was an agreement that one's perception is definitely shaped by position of perspective, which is a definitely a victory of its own. There's also the potential personal victory you may have had from witnessing/participating in the discussion. Even if neither side could make a consensus, if you found you have learned or gained something, then whose to say that isn't a victory for yourself? No one can take that away.

People can learn a lot from even the most mundane of interactions, its really up to the individuals willingness. Everything can seem pointless with the wrong mindset.
>>
>>47217459
> I guess I meant that a state was not created as reparation for past wrongdoings.

Holy shit dude, stop talking out of your ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia
>>
>>47217962
>Women who are good looking are often times immediately dismissed because there is an assumption that good looking women can't be intelligent.
Where do you live? Does your world only consist of tumblr?

>Furthermore, many men will completely ignore what that woman has to say because they're only response is how much they'd like to fuck them.
If you mean men, you mean those douchebags? Just because they are douches in this world doesn't mean it represent all men.

>Likewise, women who aren't attractive can be completely dismissed because they're ugly.
Another pathetic statement. Where are you from seriously? Did you just pull that out randomly?

>Yet, those models are paid terribly low compared to the companies who are profiting off of their image.
And which company does not do that? Apple profiting from minimum-wage workers in China is an example. Oh by the way the money these models make are a lot.

>many feminists would agree that it is a liberating thing
Yet some feminist says its objectifying women.
>>
>>47218112
>When conception first happened
During fertilization? That's a pretty liberal definition of fetus.
>>
>>47218102
>
>
fair enough

>
Why is this an issue though? I know this is going to sound horrible, but is it entirely impossible that some people are just better suited for some things than others? I know we'd all like to think that everyone is perfectly equal, but the reality is that they aren't. I mean, given that girls are starting to receive more and better special help in these areas, while boys just kinda have to deal with it, and they're still not surpassing their male classmates, why is it so offensive to say that maybe boys are just better at math and science?

>>47218163
Huh. Learn something new every day.
>>
>>47218163
>Liberia
I'm not the guy you were responding but repatriation to Liberia is little recompense for what happened to them as a people.
>>
>>47218160

i can say that this thread has helped me further develop my own ideas on the issue and that's all you can ask from anyone in a discussion between strangers on an anonymous internet forum.

i was arguing for personal gratification (like pretty much everyone else, if they have the balls to admit it) and if anyone else wasn't they're deluded or retarded

i can say now that i have a much healthier derision for the logic behind affirmative action in all its forms and outcomes in the USA now. thanks guys
>>
>>47218185
>Where do you live? Does your world only consist of tumblr?
Try to avoid using buzzwords like tumblr.

>Just because they are douches in this world doesn't mean it represent all men.
I didn't say all men, I said many men. Don't distort what I said.

>Where are you from seriously?
Canada, not that it matters.

>And which company does not do that? Apple profiting from minimum-wage workers in China is an example. Oh by the way the money these models make are a lot.
Yes, and Apple profiting from foxconn is an obvious bad thing. I'm not sure how this analogy works in your favour. Also, models do not make good money. Maybe Kate Moss does, but the majority of them are not well paid.

>Yet some feminist says its objectifying women.
Yes. You're describing second wave feminism.
>>
>>47218219
That's the spirit! :^)
>>
>>47218204

> I know we'd all like to think that everyone is perfectly equal, but the reality is that they aren't

when society realizes that serial killers, sociopaths, pedophiles, and pretty much every other unsavory is equally helpless at the hands of their environment as all the media-championed, TV friendly demographics, society is in for a big fucking rollercoaster.

better hope that people who have a fucking clue about how to shape the future of the human race can keep the cogs of industry oiled enough to arrive at a post-scarcity and/or technological singular endpoint whereupon all this bullshit (hopefully) becomes irrelevant to the public strata.

until then, eat shit retards
>>
>>47218243
I support you, man. That other guy is a fucking moron
>>
>>47217978
>>don't fuck without protection
>rape, faulty condoms, alcohol.
How many times had I address about abortion being okay if the women is being raped? As for faulty condoms, you do know that even safe sex have risks. Alcohol? How about being a responsible drinker for a change.

>Not the same as bearing the child and being given "motherly duties."
And yet feminist fight so hard at court for child custodies. When given the responsibility, oh too much burden.

>Are you saying we're immune to doing what we're taught? Do you know how many kids get told to play with other toys and wear other costumes and clothes because of their sex?
And does that shape how the children would be when they grow up?
>>
>>47218290
:^) thanks friend

thread is going to die any minute now
>>
>>47218204
>Why is this an issue though? Some people are just better suited for some things than others?

I don't want to sound hostile because I agree with the spirit of your response.
It is a problem because there is yet to be any evidence put forward which suggests that these differences are physiological. As such, it is more likely than dudes are not innately better at Maths and Science but are better at it because they are more interested in it. This is the problem. Girls and boys should feel equally interested in Maths as they are in English but, currently, there is a perception that Maths is inherently masculine whilst English is feminine.

I agree that we need to embrace our differences but this should be limited to physiological differences, not differences created due to environment.

And it's an issue because the kind of jobs girls go on to occupy pay less than the jobs men occupy. Of course, this is to do with supply and demand and the argument can be made that engineering is more important than, for example, writing. But another argument can also be made that we don't appreciate what women do. We don't appreciate their lines of work, which is why men avoid them, and why they are ultimately paid less. And as men still control more money and occupy the majority of CEO and Governmental positions, women are ultimately dependent on men.
>>
>>47218317
Thankfully
>>
worst thread 2014
>>
>>47218277
>Retards
Funny, calling others retards when you can't grasp anything other than an absolute 'it is either a or b' argument. Both structure and agency are involved. No-one in this thread is suggesting that just structure or agency is to blame for serial killers, sociopaths, etc.
>>
>>47218315
>How many times had I address about abortion being okay if the women is being raped? As for faulty condoms, you do know that even safe sex have risks. Alcohol? How about being a responsible drinker for a change.
What about date rape? Rape that can't be proven because of insufficient evidence?

>And yet feminist fight so hard at court for child custodies
[citation needed]

>And does that shape how the children would be when they grow up?
Yes.

(not the guy you replied too)
>>
>>47218290
>>47218243
i also support you
i liked it when /mu/ was a-political and all the shitposters MRAs kept to /pol/

that said, these shitposters seem to be much more prolific than they used to
>>
>>47218335
i dunno man, the australian 'aboriginals are scum' shitposter thread and any of the K-POP/UKIP threads were pretty bad
>>
5
>>
>>47218340

somewhere between typing that out and preparing for the possibility of any responses i lost my train of thought but i guarantee you it was 100% justified and that you are actually the retard while i am not
>>
>>47218401
well, i'll have to take your word on it
>>
2
>>
>>47218209
I'd disagree with your point but regardless of our opinions on the matter the fact is that there is an African state that was specifically created for victims of slavery. Just because its a shithole plagued with poverty and civil wars doesn't mean it should be disregarded.
>>
>>47218116
>And I answered you before, you ignored my post.
Sorry but what post? Maybe I missed it or something.

>Women need to be elected.
See >>47217941
>>>Also, remember that America is a democratic society and women need to be voted to get into power

>Women need to be represented better than Palin or Bachmann. Americans need to be more open to female politicians, both female and male citizens.
Being more open to female politicians is one thing, but have they achieve that status or not is another.

>Feminism does address these issues.
Maybe the good one.
>>
>>47218409

as you should, you lack the mental capacity for any other outcome
>>
>>47218321
Ahhh ok, I understand. Though I think I disagree with you toward the end a bit. I don't think men avoid these fields because they're not appreciated, and THEREFORE the don't pay well, I think the reason these jobs aren't appreciated is because they don't pay well. People don't appreciate the artist and writer, because these aren't careers that society has a huge demand for, and therefore isn't willing to pay for. And while I do agree that the interest in these fields comes from environmental, rather than physiological differences, I don't necessarily think that these differences are mutually exclusive. For example, take a generic low income family. Mom, dad, brother, sister. assuming the kids are young (2-7ish years old), one parent will likely have to stay home and watch/raise the kids. If they could afford childcare like a nanny or daycare, it wouldn't matter which parent, if not both, worked. But because they can't afford this luxury, one of them has to stay with the kids. We can take this a step further and assume that they weren't well off when they had the kids either. If this is the case, it's more likely than not that the mother would stay home. Not because society tells her to, but because without any outside help or coaching, she is better equipped to raise and take care of the kids, even if the only difference between her and the father is the fact that she can breastfeed.
>>
>>47218363
Thanks, I like taking them to task on /mu/ cause they don't have legions of hivemind /pol/tards to reaffirm their stupid beliefs.
>>
>>47218416
No, and I wasn't the dude you were originally responding to as I was aware of Liberia.

It shouldn't be disregarded but repatriation still doesn't really make-up for slavery, the funding of African Wars, semi-ethnic cleansing etc.
It's also a very 'band-aid' fix. "Here, you're all black, go live in the same nation together." It's like regarding Englishmen and Italians to be the same despite the huge diversity.
>>
>>47218430
>See >>47217941
I don't understand. You're showing me another post that I made. Is this supposed to refute the point that I've been trying to make?

>Being more open to female politicians is one thing, but have they achieve that status or not is another.
Sorry, this sentence doesn't make sense.

>Maybe the good one.
Again, I don't understand this sentence.
>>
>>47218243
>Try to avoid using buzzwords like tumblr.
Sorry knee-jerk reaction.

>I didn't say all men, I said many men. Don't distort what I said.
Didn't read your post carefully. Sorry about that. But still its generalising men, even using many. Because define 'many', how many is 'many'

>>>Likewise, women who aren't attractive can be completely dismissed because they're ugly.
>>Where are you from seriously?
>Canada, not that it matters.
You have not address my statement. Where do you see that ugly women are being dismissed.

>Also, models do not make good money.
They definitely make more than us. Again how much does it consist of more or fair in terms of model's pay.
>>
>>47218437
>Women are better at raising children even if the only difference is that she can breastfeed
Yeah, I agree.
And if you were to take into account the physiological, there is an emotional bond (prompted by hormones) between the mother and child that is not as strong between the father and child.

>I think the reason these jobs aren't appreciated is because they don't pay well
Bit of a chicken-or-the-egg problem, I guess.
I still think it is a problem that women are not pursuing the same high-paying careers men are, whatever the cause may be. Also, jobs which are uniquely feminine and in high-demand, including raising children, teaching, domestic housework are still incredibly low paid (or not paid at all). This, of course, relates to the high-supply of workers due to the relative ease of these jobs.
>>
>>47218437
(cont.)
The other thing is education. Chances are, since they're a low-income family, we can assume that they're not college educated. When it comes to the low-education job market, most of the well paying jobs are in trades; things that require hard or physical labor, for long periods of time. I don't really know shit about biology or psychology, but I would assume that these kinds of jobs would be more physically suited for men, not women. And I feel like this is where a lot of the employment gap in more 'manly' fields came from. Men used to be the ones working as field hands, or in the mines, or in the lumber yard, or as mechanics, or in factories, or whatever else, and since these kinda jobs often involve long hours with difficult shitty work, the people doing this work get paid well. Sorta like a high risk high reward kinda deal. Meanwhile the women had to stay home and raise the kids, because who else would? And then I don't think we've yet grown out of this as a society. It's getting better, which is why we're seeing improvements in graduation rates and employment and whatnot, but at the same time, there still exists a rift, because of the way the home was structured before women really started entering the workforce. Anyway, I haven't really been paying attention to what I've been saying, cause it's 6 am and I'm probably gonna go to sleep, but there's my 2 cents.
>>
>>47218569
>Men better suited to trade jobs
I disagree but due to the fact that women are more suited to being the caregivers, it remains that men will be the ones out there performing hard labour.
>>
>>47218341

>What about date rape? Rape that can't be proven because of insufficient evidence?
Just like some women who fabricate stories about being raped by their boyfriend and sort of a revenge plot?
If the women is genuinely date raped, I feel for her but rape that can't be proven because of insufficient evidence? Is this really a thing?

>[citation needed]
An example is Gloria Allred. Activist of women's right and child custody.

>Yes.
I grew up with athletic parents, both working in business firms and enjoy traveling. I only workout because of health, don't play sport, video-games on my free time, studying engineering and dislike traveling.
How is that 'Yes'? Also regarding about shaping children, see David Reimer case. He was brought up as female (penis disfiguration at freak surgery accident), reconstructed a vagina, given female hormone pills and yet he still identify as male at puberty.
>>
>>47218507
>Where do you see that ugly women are being dismissed.
/mu/. see any grimes thread which turns into she's hot/ugly with no actual discussion of her music
>They definitely make more than us. Again how much does it consist of more or fair in terms of model's pay.
Who are us? Men?

The median hourly wage for models was $9.02 in May 2012. The average wage in the US is $10.29. What do you think job security for models is like? What happens when models age? Why do so many models suffer from health problems because the profession requires employees to be underweight? This is not some great profession.
>>
>>47218614
Forgive me for ignoring parts of your post, this thread is going to die very soon.

>Just like some women who fabricate stories about being raped by their boyfriend and sort of a revenge plot?
Statistically very seldom happens. You can look at FBI statistics for false rape crimes if you'd like. It's nowhere close the MRA claims, or what you've read on /pol/

>If the women is genuinely date raped, I feel for her but rape that can't be proven because of insufficient evidence? Is this really a thing?
Yes, of course it really happens. Not all rape is an open and close, violent rape by a stranger in a parking lot with video surveillance footage. In fact, that's statistically very rare.
>>
>>47218475
>I don't understand. You're showing me another post that I made. Is this supposed to refute the point that I've been trying to make?
Oh you made that post? I thought what you said
>>Also, remember that America is a democratic society and women need to be voted to get into power
was a valid point in my argument.

>Sorry, this sentence doesn't make sense.
Women politicians don't immediately get a free card for their gender. They need to actually prove something that makes us vote for them and not just I'm a women vote for me.

>>>Feminism does address these issues.
>>>Maybe the good one.
>Again, I don't understand this sentence.
There are too many third wave feminist taking trivial things too seriously. Adria Richards, Anita Sarkeesian, Rebecca Watson just to name of few and they are the good kind of feminist that address real issues.
That was what I'm trying to say.
>>
>>47218614
>Just like some women who fabricate stories about being raped by their boyfriend and sort of a revenge plot?
This very, very rarely happens.
There is a far greater problem in that only a small minority of rapes are reported and a smaller minority of rapists are punished.
>>
>>47218676
>Women politicians don't automatically get a free car; America is a democracy and women need to be voted for

Sure, but to suggest that men are more suited to office than women is stupid and yet, there are far more men in public office than women.

To the contrary of women getting a free card, they have to work much harder to be taken seriously. Even when the reach high-office, more personal issues such as clothing, their family, and marriage status is reporting far more than it is for male politicians.

Women face an uphill battle running for public office. There is a real dissonance between popular conceptions of how women should behave and who should hold authority.
>>
>>47218676
>Anita Sarkeesian
There's nothing wrong with her. She's talking about videogames, which is a male dominated market. It's alienating to women. Pointing out the sexist nature of games is fair. You sound like maybe you've spent too much time on /v/. The only reason she got so much attention was because of 4chan and reddit collectively losing their shit and harassing the fuck out of her.

>Rebecca Watson
An innocent comment made on a youtube video blown way out of proportion with thousands of rape and death threats? People tend to focus on the original comment, which was completely harmless and miss out on the extremely misogynist backlash she got for it. She has a completely valid cause because the skeptic community enabled it. I'm still annoyed that Dawkins decided to join the party and reinforce all the MRA atheists.

It's a shame that you chose two people who were actually huge targets of abuse on the internet.
>>
>>47218618
>/mu/. see any grimes thread which turns into she's hot/ugly with no actual discussion of her music
I generally avoid these kind of threads. But still this entire thread, a simple discussion of AJJ's song turn into political and social debate. We are no different.

>Who are us? Men?
Us is me and you. Whatever your gender is. Sheesshh do you really need to bring our gender into the discussion all the time?

>The median hourly wage for models was $9.02 in May 2012. The average wage in the US is $10.29.
Noted.

>What happens when models age?
This applies to any job that of aesthetics. There is no demand for aging models (I feel uneasy typing that) as who would generally enjoy models that are 'old', when newer models are there to be employed.

>Why do so many models suffer from health problems because the profession requires employees to be underweight?
Quit if you can't take it. Seriously.

>This is not some great profession.
I did not say it was a great profession. But they're people who enjoyed it. Regardless whether it is a tough job or not.
>>
>>47218736
>free car
whoops, free card*
>>
>>47218743
>I generally avoid these kind of threads. But still this entire thread, a simple discussion of AJJ's song turn into political and social debate. We are no different.
I tried to use /mu/ because it's more easily demonstratable. You're sort of asking me to give evidence for something that's more abstract and difficult to supply on command to a dying thread. I can't really do much else at this point.

>Us is me and you. Whatever your gender is. Sheesshh do you really need to bring our gender into the discussion all the time?
Well, I don't know what you make and you don't know what I make. Seems like a weird statement to make, personally. I wasn't making it about gender, I was asking you to clarify.

>Quit if you can't take it. Seriously.
This is very dangerous advice to give. Would you tell a worker who works in a factory that violates safety laws to "quit if you can't take it"? Think about it for a minute. The problem with modeling is that this is a much harder thing to enforce.
>>
>>47218736
>there are far more men in public office than women.
Like I had say in a previous post. Is the choice of the women to be in office or not. No one can stop them, forcing them to office is no different than men in the past (like long ago) considered women as 'properties'. Or middle-east forcing women to wear burka.

>To the contrary of women getting a free card, they have to work much harder to be taken seriously.
That's great, it may be tough but its a start.

>Even when the reach high-office, more personal issues such as clothing, their family, and marriage status is reporting far more than it is for male politicians.
As if male politicians do not need the same standard as female politicians.
>>
>>47218810
>That's great, it may be tough but its a start.
Not the person you replied to, but I think you might have misunderstood the comment you quoted. He's stating that women have to work harder than men to reach the same level of credibility. That's hardly a good thing, let alone great.
>>
>>47218810
>As if males do not need the same standard
There is honestly another standard applied to women in office than men. Especially in regards to reporting.

>It's the choice of the women to be in office or not. No one can stop them. Can't force them to office.
Of course not, it's not their choice, it's the electorate's choice and as long as people think of power as a masculine trait, women will continue to be underrepresented in politics.
>>
>>47218743
>Quit if you can't take it
Not as simple as that in a capitalist society. Despite what Tony Abbott may say, losing your job is most definitely not 'liberating.'
>>
>>47218741
>male dominated market
You already answered your own question, supply and demand. Are you saying women can't enjoy playing 'male games'?

>It's alienating to women
You mean alienating to people like Anita?

>Pointing out the sexist nature of games is fair.
I'm going to answer that in an example:
If I were to write a book, sexist as hell and sell it to the market, do I still have the right to write it? Or is my book being dictate by SJWs?

>You sound like maybe you've spent too much time on /v/
I thought /v/ loved her.

>The only reason she got so much attention was because of 4chan and reddit collectively losing their shit and harassing the fuck out of her.
Ya and she purposely posted her videos on 4chan to gain the attention and later tell the world how she's being harassed. She's knows about this place, its all marketing.

>Rebecca Watson
How can asking someone for coffee be misogynistic? Maybe the guy was beta but give him a break.

>I'm still annoyed that Dawkins decided to join the party and reinforce all the MRA atheists.
Not true, Dawkins is not part of any group. Its just the MRA like Dawkins a lot.

>It's a shame that you chose two people who were actually huge targets of abuse on the internet.
What have they done that is actually beneficial? Not that I'm going to stop what they're doing, just pointing it out.
>>
>>47218854
>What have they done that is actually beneficial?
This is the crux of the argument. You don't see what women contribute as beneficial. As long as you believe that Gender Studies and sociology are meaningless fields of study, you're going to remain unconvinced.
>>
>>47218781
>I tried to use /mu/ because it's more easily demonstratable. You're sort of asking me to give evidence for something that's more abstract and difficult to supply on command to a dying thread. I can't really do much else at this point
Fair enough.

>Would you tell a worker who works in a factory that violates safety laws to "quit if you can't take it"?
Safety laws, I take it very seriously. You can lose a finger or an eye. I will definitely release that worker.

>The problem with modeling is that this is a much harder thing to enforce.
No its not, there is demand for it. They are exchanging their services to meet that demand.
>>
>>47218828
>That's hardly a good thing, let alone great.
I understand your point but whining does not get them anywhere.
>>
>>47218854
Let's not be silly. You and I both know that the gaming community is extremely hostile to women. Anytime a woman joins an online community she can either expect people to suck up to her because she's a "girl gamer" or to be called a whore that needs to "get back into the kitchen".

>You already answered your own question, supply and demand.
Yes, and game developers are missing out on half of the population.

>Are you saying women can't enjoy playing 'male games'?
No.

>If I were to write a book, sexist as hell and sell it to the market, do I still have the right to write it?
Yes, of course you can, but people have the right to criticize what you write. Anita is not demanding that game developers change their games, she is critiquing gaming culture. There is a huge difference. Don't turn this into a freedom of speech thing when it's not even valid.

>I thought /v/ loved her.
No, you don't think that because you also said this:

>Ya and she purposely posted her videos on 4chan to gain the attention and later tell the world how she's being harassed. She's knows about this place, its all marketing.
Which you have no proof for, and it's something that you got from /v/. Don't act like your opinions of Anita didn't come from 4chan.
>>
>>47218854
>How can asking someone for coffee be misogynistic? Maybe the guy was beta but give him a break.
She never said asking for coffee was misogynistic. She made a video suggesting that men shouldn't approach her in an elevator at 4am in a foreign country to proposition her for sex. Coffee is an euphemism for sex, and this was at a conference where she just gave a speech about being objectified. She didn't say men can never approach women and ask them if they'd like to go for coffee, but that's a nice distortion. The reaction to her casual comment, which lasted all of 30 seconds in a vlog was completely unwarranted.

>Not true, Dawkins is not part of any group. Its just the MRA like Dawkins a lot.
Dawkins is part of the skeptic community, which many MRA are part of as well. Didn't say he was an MRA, though he certainly is anti-feminist.

>What have they done that is actually beneficial? Not that I'm going to stop what they're doing, just pointing it out.
Well, it doesn't matter really because you've already decided that they don't do anything "beneficial." I suppose everyone needs to be building abuse shelters or fighting crime to be a true feminist.
>>
>>47218844
>it's the electorate's choice and as long as people think of power as a masculine trait, women will continue to be underrepresented in politics.
Did the women in office change the way how we think? If male politicians can do that, I'm pretty sure female politicians can do the same.
>>
>>47218881
>No its not, there is demand for it. They are exchanging their services to meet that demand.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I said it's harder to enforce health regulations in fashion. Obviously it's a problem if most models are anorexic... unless you're seriously suggesting that it's okay to exploit anorexia if there is a demand for it.
>>
>>47218874
>As long as you believe that Gender Studies and sociology are meaningless fields of study, you're going to remain unconvinced.
I don't believe. I want proof. Elaborate.
>>
>>47218892
So, how else can women make men and other women aware of societal injustices if everything they say is going to be dismissed as "whining?"

What was the point of MLK whining during the civil rights movement? Was it all for naught?
>>
>>47218937
Proof of what? That those feilds are meaningful? How can anyone prove something that you've already, and quite arbitrarily, dismissed? What "proof" would even change your mind about gender studies?
>>
>>47218977
Well, the entire problem is that women aren't as powerful as men are, generally speaking. This is brought about by conceptions of power being antipodal to conceptions of the ideal woman. And so, those that try to call out this distinction are disregarded.

What feminism has done, and what those women have done is hugely important, you just disregard them because they present a challenge to your regime of truth.
>>
>>47219005
What are you talking about? I am a feminist and have been debating the MRAs through this entire thread.
>>
>>47218895
>Let's not be silly. You and I both know that the gaming community is extremely hostile to women. Anytime a woman joins an online community she can either expect people to suck up to her because she's a "girl gamer" or to be called a whore that needs to "get back into the kitchen".
Sorry but I don't see it. I really don't see it at all. I have played with female gamers online and seen them getting mistreated. Seriously.

>game developers are missing out on half of the population
How are they missing out on half of the populations?

>people have the right to criticize what you write
True, I always believed in criticism but that does not meat the critic is immune to it.

> Anita is not demanding that game developers change their games, she is critiquing gaming culture.
Watch her videos carefully, listen to the words she used. Its very forceful and demanding.

>Don't turn this into a freedom of speech thing when it's not even valid
I don't get what you mean in this, isn't art suppose to be free?

>No, you don't think that because you also said this
No seriously, I don't go to /v/.

>Which you have no proof for, and it's something that you got from /v/. Don't act like your opinions of Anita didn't come from 4chan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyF3xWz8vA

She knew about 4chan and use it to gain popularity.
>>
>>47218920
>She made a video suggesting that men shouldn't approach her in an elevator at 4am in a foreign country to proposition her for sex. Coffee is an euphemism for sex
That can be put into context doesn't it?

>Dawkins is part of the skeptic community, which many MRA are part of as well. Didn't say he was an MRA, though he certainly is anti-feminist.
Dawkins was with Atheism+ several times, how can he be anti-feminist?

>Well, it doesn't matter really because you've already decided that they don't do anything "beneficial." I suppose everyone needs to be building abuse shelters or fighting crime to be a true feminist.
If that's the case, they're not feminist. I would consider them, in my view, comedians. Making entertainment videos for us to judge whether its funny, silly or to be taken 'seriously'.
>>
>>47218933
Fair enough, I see your point.
>>
>>47218957
Difference between Martin Luther King is Martin Luther King actually did something to archived more rights to blacks.

These pseudo-intellectual women don't do anything about it but bitch. Not volunteering in office, not donation charity to the local government that they support. Nope lets just complain, maybe if they write a song like AJJ they views can be reached further.

Btw I like AJJ
>>
>>47219031
>Sorry but I don't see it. I really don't see it at all. I have played with female gamers online and seen them getting mistreated. Seriously.
That's an odd thing to say. Your second statement completely contradicts the first. I suspect it's a typo. Just because you have played with female gamers and have not seen them suffer abuse does not mean it doesn't happen. I do find it odd that Microsoft felt the need to start handing out bans for misogyny though, since this is apparently not a problem. I don't think you seriously believe that women aren't harassed online. Maybe it doesn't fit your argument, but really, do you believe this is true?

>How are they missing out on half of the populations?
More than half of the population are women. Game developers could reach a wider audience if they made the community more female friendly.

>True, I always believed in criticism but that does not meat the critic is immune to it.
Nobody is saying that the critic is immune to criticism. In fact, it's pretty clear that Anita has gotten a lot of criticism. Also, we need to differentiate between actual criticism and harassment, cause most of it is actually the later.

>Watch her videos carefully, listen to the words she used. Its very forceful and demanding.
Cry me a river. It sounds forceful? Come on, even you have to see how rubbish this is.
>>
>>47219031
>Sorry but I don't see it
It's much harder to see discrimination if you're from the dominant group that is largely not discriminated against.

But seriously, how the fuck can you not see the discrimination faced by women in the gaming community?
>>
>>47219125
>Feminists do nothing but complain
Not true
Also MLK didn't volunteer in office, etc so...
>>
>>47219018
>debating the MRAs
Who were the MRAs? Just because people have different views as you and you call them MRAs?
>>
>>47219031
>I don't get what you mean in this, isn't art suppose to be free?
Yes. Art is free. So is criticism of art. You're acting like she is trying to censor video games which is simply not the case. In fact, I'd like you to show me one video where she states that videogames should be censored.

>No seriously, I don't go to /v/.
This Anita crap is only parroted on /v/ and /pol/.

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyF3xWz8vA
Not interested in watching a youtube video made by /v/. Every single bit of information I've read on /v/ about her is distorted to hell or contains flat out lies. You have to understand that her critics are extremely misogynistic and hold a very personal vendetta against her.
>>
>>47219127
>More than half of the population are women. Game developers could reach a wider audience if they made the community more female friendly.
Business perspective, wouldn't they already done this if it were true? It can gain more revenues.

>Also, we need to differentiate between actual criticism and harassment
Agreed, but I was talking about her point of view, not her being harassed. She keeps on playing the victim card to gain popularity, this is marketing.

>Cry me a river. It sounds forceful? Come on, even you have to see how rubbish this is.
What's so rubbish about my statement, watch her videos and listen for yourself.
>>
>>47219069
>That can be put into context doesn't it?
I don't understand this sentence.

>Dawkins was with Atheism+ several times, how can he be anti-feminist?
I don't know to what capacity Dawkins was involved with Atheism+. You can look on youtube for his comments on feminism if you'd like.

>If that's the case, they're not feminist. I would consider them, in my view, comedians. Making entertainment videos for us to judge whether its funny, silly or to be taken 'seriously'.
What?
>>47219125
How do you know that they don't volunteer or donate money to causes? That's pretty presumptuous. Would you say that black people who protested during the civil rights movement but weren't involved to the scale that MLK was were also just "whining"?
>>
>>47219128
>It's much harder to see discrimination if you're from the dominant group that is largely not discriminated against.
You mean like China = Dog? Peenoise makes some noise? Malay Babi?, Indon are the maids of the world? Russian cyka? Yup I see it now. Discrimination of countries. Female gamers? Nope.

>But seriously, how the fuck can you not see the discrimination faced by women in the gaming community?
I really don't, personal experience with other female gamers.
>>
>>47219137
The million dollar question, how long does it take for women to achieve what MLK has achieve? Btw are women really 'opressed'? I'm sure they are at a certain degree but to the extend feminist claims? I'm not too sure about it.
>>
>>47219194
>Business perspective, wouldn't they already done this if it were true? It can gain more revenues.
Not necessarily. Most development teams are dominated by men, they're writing for men from the perspective of men. Many game developers might not even realize this.

It might make sense from a business perspective, on the other hand, if the reaction to Anita's work says anything, many gamers might be hostile to a more "feminine" game.

Anyways, I'm not even saying that developers should be making "women" games. I do think they should write better female characters. Even the games that are supposed to have "strong" female characters (Tomb Raider, Heavy Rain) are actually quite terrible.

>She keeps on playing the victim card to gain popularity, this is marketing.
How so? She asked for a modest amount of money to fund her project, /v/ and reddit harassed the shit out of her and then the media picked it up. Then people decided to counter the trolls and she got a shit load of money. Don't you understand that she wouldn't have gotten this much money or publicity if you didn't go apeshit? Now, please show me one of her videos about video games where she "plays the victim card." Or are you just parroting more shit you heard on /pol/ and /v/
>>
>>47219236
It would seem that your first question answers your second.
>>
>>47219218
Well, it's lovely that you think your anecdotal evidence proves that women aren't harassed, but I have some of my own.

My ex girlfriend, who I lived with and played online with in FPS on steam recieved harassment every time she decided to use her mic.

It was whore, bitch, shut up slut, make me a sandwich, they have computers in the kitchen? etc. It wasn't uncommon for admins to immediately set a mute because women have annoying voices, apparently (and of course they're all attention whores).

On the flip side, she had plenty of guys who were eager to be her friend and show her how to play, because of course, as a woman she needed help from a more competent man.

It got to a point where she changed her name to something gender neutral and stopped using the mic. I think your claim that harassment doesn't happen is bullshit.
>>
>>47219258
>Most development teams are dominated by men, they're writing for men from the perspective of men.
And yet games such as Tomb Raider, Assasins Creed and Uncharted were written by women.

>if the reaction to Anita's work says anything, many gamers might be hostile to a more "feminine" game.
As if Anita's point is legitimate. Its her opinion, doesn't make it true.

>I do think they should write better female characters.
Not having better female characters? Like in any medium they are strong and weak characters. This is a matter of perspective.

>Don't you understand that she wouldn't have gotten this much money or publicity if you didn't go apeshit?
I don't care about her to be honest, I ignored her all the way. The discussion was brought up because of fake feminist or something.

>Now, please show me one of her videos about video games where she "plays the victim card."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyF3xWz8vA

and the TEDx one.
>>
>>47219321
>It was whore, bitch, shut up slut, make me a sandwich, they have computers in the kitchen? etc. It wasn't uncommon for admins to immediately set a mute because women have annoying voices, apparently (and of course they're all attention whores).
Didn't we all learn to ignore them? Instead of complaining try kicking their asses and then make fun of them. Make them feel embarrassed.

>On the flip side, she had plenty of guys who were eager to be her friend and show her how to play, because of course, as a woman she needed help from a more competent man.
Like in TF2 and Dota2 where female gamers are given free cosmetic items? Even the expensive one? Thanks for reminding me that, I'm going to make a fake female account and gain some cosmetics. I'm a trader that sells item for real money.

>It got to a point where she changed her name to something gender neutral and stopped using the mic. I think your claim that harassment doesn't happen is bullshit.
Your ex sure is weak. I'm Thai, when Dota 2 players makes fun of me in game for 'ladyboys' and 'dickgirls', I tell my team relax don't say anything first, win the game and trash talk all the way. They have nothing to say later. Maybe you could learn something from my experience.
>>
>>47219377
>And yet games such as Tomb Raider, Assasins Creed and Uncharted were written by women.
I never claimed that there were no women in the gaming industry, just that it was mostly men. Now, how many games have been written by men? Nearly all of them/

>As if Anita's point is legitimate. Its her opinion, doesn't make it true.
What does this have to do with my statement though? I was talking about the reaction to her kickstarter, not any of her opinions.

>Not having better female characters? Like in any medium they are strong and weak characters. This is a matter of perspective.
Yes, and many women feel like they are not represented well, hence feeling the need to, say, make videos about it. That is their perspective.

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyF3xWz8vA
I already told you that I have no interest in watching a video made by /v/.

>TEDx one.
If I am not mistaken, wasn't this about online harassment? Then why would she not be a relevant speaker at such an event? How is this "playing the victim card?"

Anyways, I was asking you to show me one of her videos about women in video games where she "plays the victim card." I'm not interested in her talking about online harassment at events about internet misogyny.
>>
>>47219195
>How do you know that they don't volunteer or donate money to causes? That's pretty presumptuous. Would you say that black people who protested during the civil rights movement but weren't involved to the scale that MLK was were also just "whining"?

There is a difference with protesting against actual problems versus protesting against something that you can fixed it but decide to complain and let Men fixed it.
>>
>>47219419
>Didn't we all learn to ignore them? Instead of complaining try kicking their asses and then make fun of them. Make them feel embarrassed.
So, now you're admitting that harassment happens but we ought to just ignore it? Shall we move the goal posts more?

>Like in TF2 and Dota2 where female gamers are given free cosmetic items? Even the expensive one? Thanks for reminding me that, I'm going to make a fake female account and gain some cosmetics. I'm a trader that sells item for real money.
I have no clue what this has to do with that quote, but, um, okay?

>Your ex sure is weak. I'm Thai, when Dota 2 players makes fun of me in game for 'ladyboys' and 'dickgirls', I tell my team relax don't say anything first, win the game and trash talk all the way. They have nothing to say later. Maybe you could learn something from my experience.
I'll make sure to tell her that.

What you don't understand is that many women are excluded entirely from online communities because they are women. Yes, trash talking happens online. Are you banned or muted because you're thai? Did people kick you out of a clan because of it? Did you join a clan and have to worry about your clan members professing their love for you or trying to convince you to go on skype with them?
>>
>>47219505
Oh, so I like that we're now decided to define what problems are "actual" and what problems are nonexistent. Just curious, how did black people "fix" segregation laws and the like without help from the white men who were in power? I guess they never whined about it and just became politicians and changed laws.

How can women "fix" problems without the help of men? Would you not agree that both genders have to work towards equality? If men give up power, are they the ones that "fixed it" by default?
>>
>>47219491
>how many games have been written by men? Nearly all of them
Why don't you work for a game company? Forcing women to work in an industry because it doesn't fit a certain demographic demand? Sounds sexist.

>I was talking about the reaction to her kickstarter,
It took her more than a year to make her first video which is like 20 mins long. Seriously? I see freelancers doing better videos than her.

>Yes, and many women feel like they are not represented well, hence feeling the need to, say, make videos about it. That is their perspective.
Ask them to write their own story, I'm a bit fed-up with all this 'not enough representation'. Sounds like pure whining to me.

>I already told you that I have no interest in watching a video made by /v/.
Then you're bias, you only want to see what you would like to see.

>If I am not mistaken, wasn't this about online harassment? Then why would she not be a relevant speaker at such an event? How is this "playing the victim card?"
Watch the video.

>I was asking you to show me one of her videos about women in video games where she "plays the victim card.
Its in her lecture videos. Here's one where she is not a gamer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afgtd8ZsXzI
>>
>>47219568
>Why don't you work for a game company?
Hmm, I don't know. Why do people have political opinions if they're not going to be politicians?

>It took her more than a year to make her first video which is like 20 mins long.
Did you all have a crystal ball? Strange how you knew she wouldn't make an episode for a year the second she made her kickstarter. But you didn't, actually, so you had no reason to harass her when you did.

Also, even if you somehow could see into the future, how are rape threats justified?

>Ask them to write their own story, I'm a bit fed-up with all this 'not enough representation'. Sounds like pure whining to me.
Okay, I'll ask the feminazis and you get the developers on board to hire them.

>Then you're bias, you only want to see what you would like to see.
No, I don't accept a video made by /v/ because they've shown time and time again that they're not reliable. Would you read a study that /pol/ gave you proving that blacks are intellectually inferior? No, you don't give that shit the time of day.

>Watch the video
I did and I don't really feel compelled to watch it again.

>Its in her lecture videos. Here's one where she is not a gamer.
This has nothing to do with what I asked you for and it's not relevant to anything at all.
>>
>>47219527
>So, now you're admitting that harassment happens but we ought to just ignore it? Shall we move the goal posts more?
Oops let me rephrase my question, harassment for women, nope. For other things, yes. And seriously grow a pair and ignore them, if you get butthurt over online comments made my 12 years old you really are pathetic.

>What you don't understand is that many women are excluded entirely from online communities because they are women.
I'm really sorry but I have not seen this. Okay fine, maybe you and your ex have experienced it.

> Are you banned or muted because you're thai?
Nope, trash talk is best talk. But not on your own team, I hate it. We need to motivate each other to win.

>Did people kick you out of a clan because of it?
Nope, no one kicks me out of my clan. Our clan is based on performance. You do bad, you're out. Regardless of gender or race.

>Did you join a clan and have to worry about your clan members professing their love for you or trying to convince you to go on skype with them?
Ignore them seriously... blocked whatever, Jesus how hard is it?

Anyone I had fun replying to so many people. So many interesting view, its funny how an AJJ thread turn into a debate. I have to cook dinner now. Bye.
>>
>>47219654
Just ignore sexual harassment, women, especially if it excludes you from things that men are able to do. Beautiful advice.
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