The morality of Ultimate Newtype vs Ultimate Coordinator

One can travel through time, the other can bend the fabric of the universe to his advantage. I'd say the latter wins.

They are both faggots.

>>13829915
>What do you guys think about Banagher as a protagonist compared to Kira?

Banagher follows his dick plain and simple. Kira at least has a more noble rationale for doing the things he does.

I honestly think they're two stripes of how not to write a Gundam protagonist.
Kira's bad because there's no thought into taking his character into any direction at a certain point and writer fiat is used to explain away his faults or mistakes.

BUT, at least I can feel some sort of conviction with this character. Banana has no personality at all, and is basically a gigantic plot device. When a dry sponge is being used as a mouthpiece for moving beyond humanity, through time and other banal horseshit, I don't feel moved, I feel I'm watching a pretentious piece of crap.

Kira ain't that great of a character, but you know what, at least something could be done with the guy in the hands of a good writer. I can't say the same about Banana

>>13829915
Muh Ideonites.
I can't wait for Banagher and Minerva otherworldly adventure using Full Awakened Idecorn as he fight off against Buff Clan in the next Unicorn Novel.

>>13829933
I can attest that Kira can be fixed because it's ultimately the execution of his character that's the problem. There were tons of better directions they could've taken him, given the dilemma he has after SEED. But obviously Morosawa wanted him to unrealistically move on, like a robot away from the struggles that would've benefitted the narrative of Destiny. Kira's reluctance to grasp his role, because of what he lost would've made more sense than what we eventually had

>>13829915
>Ultimate Newtype
I fail to see what Banana Drinks has to do with this discussion, then.
Judau was the Newtype2, and his solution was
"What if we take the people who don't want to war....and put them someplace else?"
He fucked off to Proxima Centauri and left the earth sphere to its own devices knowing full well it would murder itself indefinitely.

>>13829915
What about Namagher piloting ability?
I haven't watched Unicorn but I heard that NTD systems allows Banagher's brain to consumes Unicorn piloting ability against newtypes too.

>>13829915
He's a fucking nothing protagonist. It would have been much better if the Unicorn was a Brave machine that talk and have a personality , rather than having this dummy faggot .

>>13829948
>They're retconning Late UC, didn't you know

But seriously, there may be some secret war between Sunrise executives whether to drop late UC or retain it.

>>13829948
>Posting noncanon story

>>13829957
even if you discount Victory Side Story, Banana is nowhere near the "Ultimate Newtype". The bullshit he pulled was because of the Unicorn, he never shows any appreciable power level outside of it.
Judau would have been a reality-warper in that thing.

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>>13829954
>to drop late UC or retain it.

I want a F91 show remake so bad, or at last the others two movies.

>>13829952
>if the Unicorn was a Brave machine
I never knew I wanted this.

>>13829915
Banana is basically Kira: UC Edition. Same shit different clothes. In fact Banana manages to have even less personality than Kira which is honestly quite extraordinary.
Their problems have slightly different symptoms but a lot of overlap. Kira being what he is could have made for an interesting conflict but was thrown out for him being Jesus. Banana being what he is has no conflict at all since becoming a Newtype is kind of the big overall goal and pinnacle of UC. So really, Banana becoming the Perfect Newtype and saving everything (when Tomino had explicitly avoided that through his whole saga) is pretty much a giant middle finger to all other UC protagonists, basically saying 'lol fuck u banana is da best newtype xD not even amuro could stop char but banana could!!'
So really where Kira is a horrible character through two series, Banana is a horrible character in a shorter series but manages to shit on what is usually considered the best in Gundam.

>>13829954
>>13829990
I'm convinced that Sunrise is waiting for the Old Man to kick the bucket before they retcon Late UC and make UC TV series about Zeon forever.

>>13829915
I think both are mediocre protags but at least Banagher is better written.

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>>13830019
>before they retcon Late UC and make UC TV series about Zeon forever.


Stop... stop.

>>13829915
>Banana
>Pilot a finished ultimate Newtype Killer Machine with Psychoframe embedded in its Chassis
>Travel trough time

>Jewdough
>Pilot a upgraded Zeta Gundam with Bio-Sensor
>Summon dead people from the past
>Re-energize his zero powered gundam
>MAKE HAMAN CRY

>Kamille
>Pilot a prototype transformable Gundam with Bio-Sensor
>Powered up his lightsaber to unimagine length
>Create a motherfucking I-field
>Summon dead people to powered up his Gundam and crash upon his enemy

>Amuro Ray
>Pilot an Unfinished prototype with Psychoframe built in his cockpit
>PUSH GODDAMN ASTEROID AND SAVE MANKIND
>Went Beyond the Time

>Usso Ewin
>Pilot a mass produced Gundam with NO PSYCHOFRAME BIO-COMPUTER SENSORY SHIT
>SNIPE PILOT FROM AFAR WITH HIS FUCKING WARNING SHOT
>CAN HEAR THE SPIRITS OF THE DEAD
>ASKING USSO TO AVENGE THEM
>AND HE FUCKING DID
>SAVE HUMANITY FROM BEING MINDRAPED BY A JOVIAN FEMINIST
>IT WAS UNANIMOUS THAT THIS LITTLE SHIT IS WALKING TALKING WAR CRIME THAT KILL MORE PEOPLE AND RUB MORE FUCKING TITS LEFT AND RIGHT HOLY FUCKING CHRIST.
I don't even know Banana is in the same category under "Ultimate Newtype"

>>13830019
Wouldn't they rather wait for both him and Hasegawa to die, then proceed to adapt and change the Crossbone manga series in general (original to Ghost) to their liking?

>>13830019
>is pretty much a giant middle finger to all other UC protagonists,

It's the same with the Unicorn.

>Ehi, look! my Gundam is the strongest one of UC.

>>13830084
The entirety of Unicorn could be said to be a giant middle finger to all of Tomino UC Gundam.

Wait, when did Unicorn travel through time?

I actually really enjoyed Unicorn and found it an emotional love letter to all who grew up on UC Gundam. I dunno why /m/ hates so much

>>13829919
>>13830039
>>13830134
I thought we made this clear. It was a vision, they didn't actually travel through time.

>>13830019
>before they retcon Late UC and make UC TV series about Zeon forever.

The sad thing is that I can imagine them actually doing this. Either that, or remaking 0079 only Zeon wins this time.

>>13830370
It is not exactly hate, it's more like a nuisance because the full story is a damn fanfic that wants to reopen issues that were long gone and impose itself with force in the timeline (like all fanfic have the habit of wanting to do). In some cases, this is also irritant because this supposed respect for the UC, is actually limited only to a part of this, and some of these changes come from an external author and not by original one. Above all, the fact of wanting to be like an "the end" for the UC was terribly irritating.

Then there are question of merely narrative with characters acting illogically and a whole series of fanservice of which one could easily do without. The Unicorn as a machine is all about what a Gundam should not be (It's destroys the tension given that the pilot is irrelevant).

>>13830428
And yes, of course, there are other cases of Super Ai in UC, but the Tnicorn combines that with shit magic and is a bit too much.

>>13830039
>Went Beyond the Time
I belong to you~
Sayonara ienakute

>>13830370
I'd say it's because it's trying to take UC and turn it into SEED.

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>>13830370
>I actually really enjoyed Unicorn and found it an emotional love letter to all who grew up on UC Gundam.

Eh, you're not the only one

You, me and many Japanese dudes and dads over 30

>I was surprised that my husband, who never seemed to have an interest in anime, was watching Gundam.

>Recently, he has started incorporating Gundam when playing with our son and every now and then our son enters something called 'Destroy Mode(?)'

>>13830542
>every now and then our son enters something called 'Destroy Mode'
That's adorable.

>>13829919
What happens if Banagher sends Kira to the end of time?

>>13829915
Newtypes are quasi-supernatural and represent the inherent hope that humanity will evolve culturally as well as technologically. Coordinators are just rich assholes who are smarter than everyone else.

I like Unicorn in part because it highlights the tragedy of Newtypes in Gundam shows in more explicit terms than Tomino Gundam bothered doing, but Banagher is the weakest part of it by far.

>>13830411
And wasn't that Neo Zeong's doing, not Unicorn?

>>13829915
theyre both shit
kira just attracts more autism

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>>13830542

>>13830542
I just realised Unicorn actually showcased Fed's Earth side military, we got Navy MS carrier & sub, Air Force MS & their transport & jets.

>>13830663
Exactly

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>>13830561
Maybe older demographic is the reason why Unicorn is making mad dosh

Older dudes with money and job. Buying BD or PG kits ain't a big deal

>>13830682
Shame we'll never get them in late UC, new Asshimar that incorporates Gun-EZ & BESPA flight tech, marine Gun-EZ etc.

>>13830370
What >>13830428 said. There's some good stuff in there, but it comes on pretty damn strong in some aspects. Lotta meaningless rhetoric and a deus ex machina in the Unicorn itself.

>>13830411
>I thought we made this clear. It was a vision, they didn't actually travel through time.


Says who you ? It's your interpretation, on the other hand the events depicted cleary indicate that that time travel was real. They traveled both in the past and in the future. In the future where there is nothing, the end of the universe. That's no vision mate. That's real. Can Newtypes share a vision ? We've never seen it. They can connect at one instant in time (like when one dies or something lilke that) but take one for a tour into eternity no. Newtypes can do crazy shit but not this. This time travel was the effect of both Newtypes and their Gundam filled with psycommus. We have already seen that psychic energy is real in CCA, this time warp/travel was just a tad over the top.

>>13832755
>my interpretation is fact, yours isn't.

>ultimate newtype

Banagher didn't seem like all that powerful of a newtype. Seemed like everything was Unicorn doing it.

>>13832755
When newtypes dodge shots sometimes they say "I can see it!" or something. Also Angel Halo could manipulate people's minds. There's more proof for a vision just by that than trying to convince me that physically moving something is just a step below travelling through time. I shouldn't have to remind you that time is a measurement, it is not something that "exists". Time is a concept. We measure it by how many times a particle moves in 1/365/24/3600 rotations of Earth around the sun. It is not something you can physically interact with.

Pretty sure Shakti's mum, space jesus, is more ultimate newtype than Banagher.
Also, reminder that Judau could create giant projections of himself without a biosensor/psychoframe and that Haman summoned a newtype energy dragon thing.

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Who gives a shit about either. Innovators are the real deal.

I didn't mind Banhamma. I liked his "just cause we can understand doesn't mean we will agree and stop fighting" piece in like the 5th or 6th episode.

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>>13833047
+1

>>13830703
I'm not even a huge Unicorn fan and I want a giant-ass green FA Unicorn. I don't even know why, I just do.

>>13832755
>Can Newtypes share a vision ? We've never seen it.
We see it nonstop towards the end of Zeta Gundam, and during Lalahs death (which lasted fucking forever) in 0079

>>13832755
Go read Fukui interview about it. It is a vision.

Newtypes are ultimately ineffectual, naive idealists whose visions of peace never come to light, because humans are scum and will never stop killing each other. The moral of UC is to move out to Jupiter and become a brain doctor because the entire Earth Sphere is fucked forever.

>>13830039

You forgot that Usso used the spirits of the dead to literally blind a woman

Kamille used them to make a huge beam saber, which is less offensive

>>13833137
>You forgot that Usso used the spirits of the dead to literally blind a woman
I thought she was blinded by the light. V2 Gundam doesn't have any ESP machinery.

>>13832776
>>my interpretation is fact, yours isn't.

Then please elaborate by giving references. Translated references from the author himself, or those that have worked in the production of Unicorn. If you can't then your facts are in fact baseless.

>>13833137
>>13833157
Yeah, I'm pretty sure her eye went fucked when she decided to fire those powerful beam laser in dark,tight place.

>>13833126
>A vision

So Banana weak NT?

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I like whatever Bellri "warning shot my sister" Zenam is.

>>13833203
Do you mean Bellri "I Wanna Fuck My Sister"Zenam?

>>13833189
He starts out pretty weak, but then look at the circumstances he was put into.
>School kid with no combat experience
>Never piloted a mobile suit before (as far as we know)
>Gets thrown into a solar system which is suddenly at war
>By the way here's a gundam with some really advanced mental feedback systems
>Now learn to use it

Banana was dealt a shitty hand to start with but he learned fast while getting his own priorities figured out. Most introverted kid ever has to be the hero? Not an easy task. He did as well as anyone could be expected to under the circumstances.

>>13833226
Banana could have been the best if he pilot a normal experimental MS instead of God-Killing Newtype Destroyer Universe Bender Machine. The same goes with Kira Yamato in GSD. Take example, Kamille get to pilot MkII where the only improvement were made was the Movable Frame and still he wreck some shit. The Newtype shenanigans happens when he pilot Zeta and it only occur 2 times, during Yazan fight and the Wave Rider Crash.

That what make a good pilot. Put Banana in the same shoe as Usso, he will die in matter of seconds.

>Usso is a 13 year old kid live in era of war.
>Pilot simulated MS because no parents in his life.
>Have to fight in a terrible war with a normal MS, no special snowflake gundam, but a tissue grunt gundam.
>Saw everyone he cared died and the girl he has a crush turn evil and responsible for the killings
>Get an upgraded version of his MS. again no special snowflake mental control, only Minovsky Exhaust that emits WING THAT KILL.
>Save mankind

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>>13833157

She actually goes blind before she fires the Gottrlatan's beam cannon. If you watch the final battle again you can see the exact moment her eyes go blank (which is right after BELIEVE IN THE V2), and she doesn't fire the laser until after that.

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>>13833294
It's probably her newtype bullshit that allowed her to see dead people

Considering she didn't actually kill anyone Usso called on except, like, Odelo

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>>13833294
>>13833306
>filename

>>13832755
>Can Newtypes share a vision ? We've never seen it.
You mean like Banana and Marida do?

Fucking retard.