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I want to make the case for Grendizer.
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I want to make the case for Grendizer.

It's a Toei anime, but I still think it's worth a look. It's an upgrade from Mazinger Z, just on the visuals alone. The colours are better, the animation is better, the writing is maybe a little corny and over dramatic at times, but it still gives you a nice feeling. The main character Duke Fleed isn't too bad of a protagonist either.

I see Grendizer as a decent entry level anime to 70s robots. It's definitely watchable.
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>>13827040
Zambot and Daitarn are better and shorter anyway
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>>13827040
Yeah, although the current subs can get funky at times (but still better than HK). Weren't those done by someone with ESL?
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>>13827063
>Zambot
In what way was it better other than offering a twist on the genre?

Zambot 3 is great for its darker take on the genre, not so much of anything else. The music is frankly bizzare, the characters aren't really likable, the story is just weird, the main villains don't aspire much, and the animation is worse than its predecessors.

And I'm saying this as a fan of Zambot 3.

Grendizer on the other hand is a show that's less experimental and just good with the content. It's a proper entry level anime for those interested in what pre-Gundam bots can offer.

You could have made your case better with Daitarn, but not Zambot.
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>>13827120
> It's a proper entry level anime for those interested in what pre-Gundam bots can offer

You mean nobody? No reason to bother with /m/ anime material that old and worthless.
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>>13827125
Oh it's you.
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>>13827125
>No reason to bother with /m/ anime material that old and worthless.
Gundam 079 is pretty old and worthless. It was pretty bad even for its time. Gundam's success came through by bloating it up with sequels, ovas etc. On its own it really isn't worth much.
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>>13827130

What?
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>>13827040
>entry level anime to 70s robots
You're suggesting it should be watched before Mazinger Z? I can't say I care much for that that idea.

If I were to recommend just one fully subbed show to demonstrate what 70's robo was about I'd go with Combattler V.
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>>13828457

Voltes V and Daimos are much better than Combattler V.
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>>13828457
To be fair, the Grendizer show itself doesn't have much to do with Mazinger beyond Koji and guest appearances.

>>13828484
Too bad Daimos is currently stuck with a VHS-tier release, but at least it has an amusing dub.
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>>13828484
>Daimos
>much better than Combattler V.
I agree wholeheartedly. I love what I have seen of Daimos.
TOO BAD ABOUT THOSE NO SUBS, HUH?
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>>13828527
Hey, they might be from one of those crazy countries that got Daimos dubs.
>>
YUKE
YUKE
DUKU FUREED
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>>13827040
>It's a Toei anime, but

And with the "but", you've lost me.
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>>13829343
I really can't tell if that's meant to be positive or negative towards Toei.
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>>13828457
>You're suggesting it should be watched before Mazinger Z
Grendizer is an anime on its own. Why do you think mudslimes and frogs care about it so much?

>I'd go with Combattler V.
You can do any of the robot romance trilogy too if you want.

>>13829343
>>13829414
Modern Toei has a bad rep, but old Toei Douga was cool.
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>>13827040
>It's an upgrade from Mazinger Z, just on the visuals alone

you can thank Shingo Araki for this
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>>13830331
Not really.

I wasn't talking about the character designs that Shingo Araki did for less than half of the episodes. (For your information, I like Komatsubara's designs too, who did the Devilman OVA designs)

I was talking about the skilful advancements in animation. Animators were much better prepared to animate giant robots than ever before.
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>>13827125
I'm a Gundam fan, but you're a compete moron. Lots of people aren't idiots who limit themselves to only real or only super, and plenty of people are inteested in pre-Gundam 0079 /m/ anime.
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>>13827120
Zambot gave more than one twist on the genre. Aside from the ending, I really liked how the villain realized that MotW was a dumb idea and it was easier to just make human bombs. Butcher in general was a really great villain. He was hilarious even without crabsticks. And while the characters certainly weren't likable to start with, but they realized their mistakes and grew as people, also a rarity in mecha for the time. The ending wouldn't have worked otherwise.

The animation was REALLY bad though, I'll grant that.
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>>13829764
To a point, yes.
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=1009
Shame that they did one of the worst 009 adaptations, though.
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>>13830837
>Zambot gave more than one twist on the genre
It was barely a "genre" at the time. Shows were trying out different things. It's not like Mazinger Z was the established way of doing giant robots. In fact, Mazinger Z was experimental and successful at it, which is why it shook the ratings.

Shows that came after, tried to tweak the formulae too. I guess if you care so much about the twists, then you're missing the bigger picture.

>I really liked how the villain realized that MotW was a dumb idea
When was that?

MotW isn't really a bad idea for anime. It's not a separate entity from episodic anime. That's kind of the whole point, because there were no way to get the previous episodes back then.

>grew as people, also a rarity in mecha for the time.
Not really. The MC was pretty much the same till the end. Things just got intense, and he couldn't be a jerk anymore.

Zambot 3 is good, but it's not the ideal entry to pre-79 gundam anime.
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>>13830837
>hey realized their mistakes and grew as people, also a rarity in mecha for the time
Just wondering, have you actually watched any other 70S robot shows other than Zambot and not by Tomino?

People grew in Grendizer as well. Or did you just forget Hikaru's complete transformation mid way through the show? Or how Maria started out as a fiery girl before settling down as a member of the Grendizer team?
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These threads are pointless. There is no convincing young and/or close minded viewers that series this dated are worth watching. Unless you strap them to a chair and force them to Clockwork Orange style, it's just never going to happen. It's ingrained in their mind that this is old/dumb/boring and that's that.

A discussion thread about an older series is fine but trying to convince people to watch this stuff just results in underage cringe posts.
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>>13830939
>trying to convince people
I never tried to convince anyone who aren't interested. I literally just said it's worth a look for those who want to watch 70s mecha, but not Mazinger Z.

I didn't say you have to be interested in it. I know we got a lot of newfags who don't care one bit about these series, but for the years I've been here, /m/ has always kept an interest.

Grendizer is a pillar of giant robot anime. It gave us some of the most badass vegans ever, way better than what AGE gave us.

Some people here I know want to give them a try, and I say go ahead, but I'm pointing out that there are better options than the original Mazinger.
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>>13830975
>I want to make the case

Maybe English isn't your first language but this is probably close to how "convince" is defined by some dictionaries.

Anyone that cares about the series has already seen it.

Also Mazinger > Grendizer
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>>13830982
I'll clarify it for you then. I wasn't specific enough.
I don't mean to convince anyone of 70s anime. I want to make a case for Grendizer, over Mazinger, because everytime 70s anime is mentioned, people just irk because they think of Mazinger Z.

>Mazinger > Grendizer
For Toei, not really. There are good cases to make as to why Grendizer is the better show, just by the writing quality alone. The episodes are frankly better than Mazinger's. The characters are not as dumb outside of comic reliefs. The space angle is also more interesting, since it actually makes the fight a lot more fun to watch.
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>>13830982
Have you seen Grendizer? The entirety of it?
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>>13830982
>Maybe English isn't your first language but this is probably close to how "convince" is defined by some dictionaries.Anyone that cares about the series has already seen it.Also Mazinger > Grendizer

Mazinger > Grendizer ? In what world lol lol lol lol. If you had said Great Mazinger I would have let your comment pass, but Mazinger versus Grendizer is no contest at all. Grendizer wins it all, on the animation front, on the epic story, on the characters etc... Grendizer was sci-fi meets super robot done right. Mazinger is 99% filler, 1% interesting and 0% character development beyond Koji being obnoxious with Sayaka.
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This thread is full of Wasims and frenchies
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>>13830994
Yes. It's good. I like it quite a bit actually. However I do think Mazinger is better, just my take though.

I found the characters in Mazinger more compelling. The chemistry between Kouji, Sayaka, and Boss is great stuff, there's nothing in Grendizer that compares. Duke is cool, but his sidekicks are pretty much entirely forgettable and less compelling versions of Mazinger characters. Kouji also isn't as good as before and feels kind of forced, I don't think he needed to be there but they probably just wanted to make it seem like it had Mazinger continuity to attract those existing fans. The Mazinger villains are also very memorable and have unique personalities, none of them in Grendizer really stick out and it's mostly just random generic generals or whatever like you'd see in Yamato or Gundam.

The story for Grendizer is common fare for these kind of shows, nothing new really whereas Mazinger is completely unique material from top to bottom. Not that Mazinger has some award winning story material, but it's definitely one of the most unique anime series of all time. Nowadays it would seem trite and commonplace, but considering when it came out, it was a huge pioneer for anime. Of course toku and Ishinomori stuff were likely an inspiration, but Nagai and Toei really gave the series its own identity.

Mazinger is bursting with personality, creative ideas, whacky shit, cool monster designs, and lively characters. Grendizer feels like and is a derivative, much like almost all the other 70s mecha shows that Mazinger is the template for. It's no doubt one if not the best one of said derivatives, but it certainly doesn't trump the original in any way really other than production values and imo the music too because Kikuchi is god.
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>>13831047
I disagree on Mazinger Z being better. I think Grendizer has memorable characters as well.
>none of them in Grendizer really stick out and it's mostly just random generic generals
Minister Zuril was the most badass vegan. That's an undeniable fact.
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>>13831047
>>13831067
At any rate, both are probably better than Ga-Keen (which isn't Go Nagai, but still made to try and top Grendizer, while somehow being goofier). On that note, it'd be nice if several 70s shows can get full subs within the next few years, so that there can be a clearer picture over what can be watched/enjoyed or not.
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>>13831098
I think I'll have to reserve judgement on that since Luurah and Saizen aren't finished with Ga-Keen yet.
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>>13831140
Well, that's fair.

>>13831067
Adding to that, Blacky had a pretty based death.
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>>13831098
>On that note, it'd be nice if several 70s shows can get full subs within the next few years, so that there can be a clearer picture over what can be watched/enjoyed or not.

What all does? Daitarn, Zambot, 0079, Mazinger Z, Voltes V, and in a few months Gaiking will be at that point.

I know there's more if you count crabsticks - Getter, Getter G, Combattler V, probably a few others - but I forget which ones run on crabsticks, which ones have normal subs, and which have neither (like Groizer X, Mechander Robo, and Danguard A)
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>>13831168
Well, Danguard Ace has a couple of movies done, plus Winckler's silly dub compilations (if those even count). Combattler's are pretty much dubtitles, while Groizer and Mechander don't have much to go on from at all. Tekkaman has crabsticks for the full show, iirc (not to mention that Gordian, Time Bokan and Yatterman don't have much).

Also, let's not forget that Luurah is getting closer and closer to finishing Daltanias and Dai Apolon.
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>>13831168
Casshan and Tekkaman too if that counts.

Also how about you not be a lazy piece of shit and figure it out yourself like everyone else.
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Of all the oldshit, I'm most interested in Danguard Ace
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>>13830905
>It was barely a "genre" at the time. Shows were trying out different things. It's not like Mazinger Z was the established way of doing giant robots. In fact, Mazinger Z was experimental

Mazinger Z pretty much became the established way of doing things after it came out. Very few shows strayed from its formula until 0079.

>When was that?
Around episode 15. And I never said that it was a bad idea, just that it wasn't the ideal way to take over the world.

>Not really
Explicitly false, practically the entire world went from claiming that Kappei's family was responsible for the Gaizok attacks to regarding them as heroes. You can see this best in Kouzuki, the character that more or less represented a common person. Kappei himself underwent several changes as well, such as how he thought he was a hotshot who could do everything by himself in the early episodes. The show was quick to tell him otherwise. But he was still angrily lashing out at the people blaming him, making him look worse, but once his dad came along to put him in his place and he fully grasped the severity of everything, he toned that shit down. And of course, watching friend after friend die in front of him really turned him into a responsible pilot rather than the glory hound he started off as.

>it's not the ideal entry to pre-79 gundam anime.
Never said it was, wasn't aware that was what this thread was about.

>>13830933
I admit to not having watched Grendizer (though I did read the manga).The 70s shows I've watched are Combattler V, Voltes V, Zambot 3 and about half of Daitarn 3. There's hardly anything else with complete subs that isn't a Mazinger show or 0079, and I'm not really interested in either.
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>>13831196
And he continues process in Daikengo too. And Ginguiser, of course.
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>>13831223
Grendizer has dubtitles like Combattler and Voltes so if you could tolerate those you should be fine
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>>13831223
>There's hardly anything else with complete subs that isn't a Mazinger show or 0079, and I'm not really interested in either

A man with good tastes. Now that's not something you usually see in these threads.
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>>13831196
When he does, I hope he goes back and finishes up Raideen and Great Mazinger. I've been wanting to watch them, but I'm not about to start a show with incomplete subs
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>>13831241
Both pale in comparison to the good 70s mecha shows. Raideen in particular is pretty bad. Hence why no one subs this stuff.
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>>13831223
As far as I can see, comparing Grendizer and Zambot is more about each focusing on a different aspect. Whereas Grendizer goes to pains to humanize the enemy as Duke deals with his situation on Earth, Zambot examines the cause and effect of a similar war as you might expect it to occur in real life. The former is romanticized and the latter is harsh and cruel.

>>13831246
Starseeker has the unfortunate position of subbing that one. I pity her, since I think she'd rather want to do something else.

>>13831224
Yup. Though I'm not sure exactly how much TMU Fansubs focus more on Daikengo over their increasingly irrelevant Cat's Eye project.
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>>13831223
So you're saying Zambot 3 is better, but you haven't watched Grendizer for comparison.

Don't you just love it when threads about a specific show gets derailed by tomino shills?
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>>13831614
It's probably less shilling for Tomino and more being a weakass bitch that can't handle that many episodes.
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>>13831680
True that.
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>>13831274
I doubt /m/subs will bother to continue with Raideen. They finished the Tomino episodes which is probably why the series was picked up in the first place.
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>>13831680
I'd say it's both. Tominofags practically run this board, we ought to name it Sunrise and Friends or something of the like.
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>>13832234
Star did say that she generally takes a month-long break after finishing something. But then again, she is going to move on to the Ginga S movie. What will she do after that? All I see thus far is:
- Layzner BDs
- the rest of Dragonar (cue groan from her)
- Dorvack (even then, she's only doing some minor work while MartyMcFlies handles the bulk of it)
Besides, she didn't even get to Sharkin's final duel, but we'll see what happens.
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>>13832296
Discussion of Sunrise anime here is pretty much inevitable because they made a fuckton of mecha anime.

Same with Tomino, but for some reason people take an interest in the man himself.
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>>13831146
Bruv, you just spoilered the death of a 70's children's show villain. Think about the pointlessness of that.
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>>13832714
Not everyone has seen Grendizer. You wouldn't believe at just how many people die in it.

If it was 079, there would be no point because everyone knows that Ryu Jose dies after jumping off the white base.
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>>13832469
Toei made a fuckton of mecha too. You just wouldn't know because they infiltrated western cartoons as well.
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>>13833195
Point is, bad guys die. That's the default expectation in these shows, it's not really a spoiler.
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>>13833207
>Point is, bad guys die.
>Blacki
>Bad guy
He was just following orders. He died an hero.
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>>13833197
I know that Toei made a fuckton of mecha too, which is why discussion of them is ALSO inevitable. It's just cool to hate on them now that they can't stop outsourcing their flagship shows to the Philippines.
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>>13833314
That's not what I meant by fuckton of mecha. Toei's library of giant robot anime is actually not that much. The 70s didn't have as many shows as the 80s.

There are plenty of 80s western cartoons out there that were animated by Toei. Many of those shows were often scifi stuff.
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>>13833382
I'm aware they worked on Transformers but I'm not sure what other western shows they worked on that were /m/.
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>>13833400
Can Thundercats be considered /m/?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankin/Bass_Productions
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>>13827040

Yeah OP, in fact Grendizer was a gateway super robot anime for me (it was on TV where i live along with Robotech and Geewun).
It's really okay. I guess Mazinger fans are butthurt at how Kouji is portrayed in Grendizer though.
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>>13833413
Well, the ThunderTank has it's own theme song. If that isn't /m/ as fuck then I don't know what is.

>>13833428
I can see why they'd be a little hurt in the butt since he's basically filling the support role that Sayaka had in Mazinger Z.
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>>13833488
>he's basically filling the support role that Sayaka had in Mazinger Z.
Good thats basically where he belongs.
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>>13834119
Careful now, you might upset the Mazingerfags who are upset Mazinger isn't the focal point of all mecha and isn't the strongest just because it was the first SR
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>>13834119
In the context of Grendizer, yeah that's exactly where he should be.

>>13834126
How powerful Mazinger Z is isn't really important since it isn't even in Grendizer anyway.
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>>13831614
The only Tomino shows I've even watched are Zambot, Voltes and L-Gaim.

I just like Zambot and haven't heard anything about Grendizer that made it seem exceptional, even in this thread. Plus its design is shit
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>>13835065
>Voltes
That one's Nagahama though, not Tomino.
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>>13835077
Tomino worked on a fair number of episodes to my understanding. I also forgot that I watched King Gainer, probably because it was a forgettable show
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>>13835065
Eh, it grows on you after a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10rm1IpbDDY
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>>13835104
>Tomino worked on a fair number of episodes to my understanding

Nagahama directed it though, so it's more his show. That's why it's one of the Robot Romance Series, with Combattler, Daimos, and Daltanius (But not Raideen since he only directed part of that - Tomino did the other part).
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>>13835065
Take your shills elsewhere.

This ain't a clawshrimpy thread where you get to judge shows without having to watch them.
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>>13836569
But Clawshrimpy threads are about disliking everything that isn't GaoGaiGar and getting triggered by masculine characters.
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I'm a few episodes in now. It's been pretty decent although not really mindblowing thus far. It DOES look nice though.

Also, TFO is super-lame but I like the blue suit Kouji is wearing.
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>>13837335
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>>13840580
These subs make it all the more worthwhile.
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I actually do wanna watch Grenadier but that design is just awful

Also, something feels weird about Kouji being so weak and shitty, but that's probably since I've only watched Mazinkaiser so far.
Is he at least a good fuckboi in it?
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>>13840742
Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes Grendizer's design.

I don't really mind Kouji being weaker since it's more or less because he's in a worse machine. Yes.
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>>13840742
Watch Gattaiger first. It's the pilot for Grendizer.

>Also, something feels weird about Kouji being so weak and shitty
You shouldn't worry about Kouji being shitty. He's a great ally and bro to Duke Fleed.
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>>13840832
Hey, if it makes you feel any better I think Giga is fucking radical.

>spoiler
Nice
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>>13840843
>Gattaiger

Whoa shit, now THAT is a design that I'd like to see more toys of.

>You shouldn't worry about Kouji being shitty. He's a great ally and bro to Duke Fleed.
Quite the relief, I thought he was going to be like Sayaka but not as cute
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>>13840847
His relationship with Duke Fleed starts out pretty shaky but that changes quickly enough.
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>>13840742
Don't worry about it, he gets rewarded later on in the show
>Grenadier
I'm not sure how you somehow confused Grendizer's series title with that of a blonde gunslinger with huge tits.
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>>13840843
The weirdest part about Kouji in Grendizer is how he somehow built a fucking UFO all by himself.
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>>13841481
Well he does come from a long family of talented engineers. Now I don't have a mechanical background, but I'm willing to bet the difference in the design principles behind motorcycles and UFOs is quite negligible.
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>>13841704
if a robot is controlled basically like a motorcycle then obviously saucers should work mostly the same too
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I still want a grendizer Giga anime, after this trailer.

https://youtu.be/HS7YfzGq3n4

I don't even know if the manga is any good, but the trailer is awesome.
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>>13836569
>judge a show without having to watch it
Literally all of 4chan does this
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>>13841851
Then you're lowering yourself to the level of autists like clawshrimpy.
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>>13842457
I do that merely by browsing /m/, let alone posting here. And so do you, especially since you keep replying.
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>>13828484
>Voltes better than Combattler
I like both, but no.
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>>13842502
HOW

Aside fromt he robot design itslef, Combattler looks so much better than conehead it isn't funny. But HOW is Voltes not the better show when compared to Combattler? The show that kills off the only good villain halfway through and ends on a literal deus ex machina?
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>>13827040
What about the manga? Better or worse?
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>>13846623
The first half barely had much to it. Also CV had better villains.
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