>Minovsky particles = no missiles I can understand radar

I've only casually watched some linked episodes, but Minovsky particles do mess with LoS. A couple of the mechs will throw out little inflatable balloons to trick enemy pilots into shooting one and revealing themselves.

>>13800611
That doesn't rule out bombardment which just requires a general area.

IIRC, Minovsky Particle density can distort the visible light spectrum when viewed from far away, making even LoS-based attacks unreliable from far away. Artillery sounds good, but you're again limited to LoS, because the particles make it impossible to radio in enemy coordinates.

>>13800576
>Napoleonic Gundam
I never realized how much I wanted this.

MC can be Wellington, Totally-Not Char can be Napoleon

>>13800626
It cannot only be distorted to an infinite degree. So that means you can work within a margin of error. These sorts of problems have always existed for artillery.

>>13800611
Here's how vision works in UC Gundam. The cameras take in all the information they can, then the machines computer puts it all together into what it thinks something looks like. It's an highly detailed interpretation of the battlefield. That's why dummies are a thing, to the computers they are the real thing. Same with the F91's after images.

>>13800625
>>13800576
Space doesn't seem like it would be very kind for bombardment tactics given how few fixed positions there are, and most positions being relative. There are artillery use MS, most for Earth combat but they are used in space. From what I gather they're used for containment and preemptive strikes, ships also lay down volleys into enemy formations which scatters them allowing ally MS easier situations of targeting lone units. Ideally in space Mobile Suits are aircraft, they prioritize enemy craft or enemy carriers. Carriers never see an enemy craft (ideally), cruisers and battleships are more or less support for MS or the last line of defense between enemy units and the carrier.

>>13800576
>Space is especially accommodating for line of sight
As Reco taught us, things in space are further than what they look like, and we don't have eagle vision.

>>13800677
>Space doesn't seem like it would be very kind for bombardment tactics given how few fixed positions there are
Not really. You're matching trajectories based on relative speed. For something that can't maneuver like a small craft, such as a colony or production facility, you're really just a sitting duck in orbit. It can be difficult to measure depending on the circumstances, but it's ultimately very predictable. Especially with computer simulation.

>>13800691
Get a telescope.

>>13800696
Again they're being more or less a fixed position which is ideal for bombardment, besides normally those (colonies and production facilities) are things you don't want to damage and require infiltration.

>>13800576
>>13800633
Just watch LOGH or something.

>>13800721
>Again they're being more or less a fixed position which is ideal for bombardment
wut
>things you don't want to damage and require infiltration.
Any sort of weapons facility is going to be the first target. And traditionally in warfare, military infrastructure will often be placed within civilian areas. Just look at the previous world wars where cities were the source of massive bombardment. Besides, there are more possible targets beyond that. It could be things like tactical positions where the enemy has set up operations, are gathering intelligence or preparing to mount an attack.

>>13800730
Speaking of which, what's the watching order? Just jump into the main series, or watch one the prequel movies/OVAs?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't airburst shells be fairly useful in space? Just set the correct range, and you get a nice 360-ish explosion. Seems like it would be great for area denial, or clearing out asteroids.

>>13800775
No, you're completely right. In fact, it probably the most common type of solid round. If they could create some sort of dispersing beam round, that would also be deadly.

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>>13800755

>>13800788
>If they could create some sort of dispersing beam round
That shit would be obscenely useful. One good shot could take out a whole squadron of Doms, or rip through an asteroid line like a hot-knife through butter. And on land, it would be the ultimate bunker buster, or it could eliminate armoured columns like nothing.

>>13800736
If something is on a predictable, fixed path it is essentially a fixed position. You still don't want to bombard a colony, the things are prone to catastrophic failure. You infiltrate them to minimize collateral damage, and bombarding enemy positions won't work because it either won't be a position but rather a ship, or if it is a position it will be one protected where they can fire out and minimize incoming fire. In either situation MS are preferable to artillery like attacks.

It takes a lot more to make this sort of Napoleonic type of warfare work in space than WW2 carrier warfare.

>>13800814
>You still don't want to bombard a colony
Using the proper restraint in arms, yes you very well will in some situations.
>a ship
Will also have to rely on line of sight. This was a common scenario in actual warfare for artillery.
>or if it is a position it will be one protected
So? Everything is protected in war. That's the point. They spend most of their time attacking protected things.
>In either situation MS are preferable to artillery like attacks.
Not necessarily. And besides, you're only talking about large scale artillery which was not the focal point of my position in the first place. I described mobile suits acting as mobile infantry in a Napoleonic fashion which is all about field artillery. As in, you're going to bring a cannon to a sword fight.
>It takes a lot more to make this sort of Napoleonic type of warfare work in space than WW2 carrier warfare.
Not only was artillery one of the core components of carrier warfare, Mobile Suits are not airplanes and space is not a sea.

>>13800870
>Using the proper restraint in arms
Except at no point in Gundam has it been shown to work like that, infiltrating has been shown as the method that works.
>So? Everything is protected in war. That's the point.
>Not necessarily.
The point is that it would be essentially suicide, or downright stupid since as far as we know ship beam cannons have the same range. So while bombarding the asteroids or debris from outside, the attackers will be taking fire coming from inside. With Mobile Suits they fly more easily around or between obstacles, because of their smaller size, ability to quickly change direction and stop make them difficult to hit with most ship CIWS.
>Mobile Suits are not airplanes and space is not a sea.
Mobile Suits are not mobile infantry, space is not a field. Mobile Suits and Gundam ships are closer to carrier warfare, and sea is a closer approximation of space than ground.

>>13800788
>misiles with nuclear warheads powering omnidirectional lasers.
So, Weber?

>>13800576

Isn't Wing one of the few Gundam AUs that has no minovsky equivalent to prevent use of missiles, radar and so on? I can't recall mention of anything like it at least. And Noin definitely uses a plane to blow up several mechs at once using a laser from fairly high altitude (out of weapon range at least) when rescuing Heero too.

>>13800951
>Except at no point in Gundam has it been shown to work like that
Why would it need to? We're not talking about what's been portrayed in Gundam. To minimize damage, use less damaging tactics. It's always been like that in warfare.
>The point is that it would be essentially suicide
No, not really.
>the attackers will be taking fire coming from inside.
Why would you fire on your troops?
>With Mobile Suits yada yada
That's nice and all, but mobile suits aren't artillery and are not used for the same results.
>Mobile Suits and Gundam ships are closer to carrier warfare
Gundam doesn't really represent any sort of real warfare and artillery is a huge component of carrier warfare. The sea is nothing like space. I really don't get why you're so up in arms against it, but your points never make sense and pretty silly.

>>13800989
>To minimize damage, use less damaging tactics.
So they use Mobile Suits, and not stationary bombardment.
>No, not really.
>Why would you fire on your troops?
Yes really, and they wouldn't be firing on their own troops. In this hypothetical situation the target is a fleet using a debris or asteroid field as cover, the attacking fleet will be taking fire from the targeted fleet while the target fleet is still protected while the attacking fleet is in the open.
>but mobile suits aren't artillery and are not used for the same results.
What is a fucking Guntank, Guncannon, GM Cannon, anything with CANNON in the name if not an artillery unit?
>Gundam doesn't really represent any sort of real warfare
>The sea is nothing like space
Except for you know they use ships, maritime tactics, naval ranks, they use ports, designated areas of space around the Earth are called "Seas" some locations are called Islands. Space combat in Universal Century Gundam are clearly a parallel to carrier warfare, artillery is not part of carrier warfare because carriers don't have fucking deck guns.
>I really don't get why you're so up in arms against it, but your points never make sense and pretty silly.
I don't get why you want Napoleonic Gundam, and the whole idea is silly.

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>>13800798
The novels are being officially translated into english and are becoming available for preorder on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1421584948?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01

>>13801073
>So they use Mobile Suits, and not stationary bombardment.
You're equating two different things.
>the attacking fleet will be taking fire from the targeted fleet while the target fleet is still protected while the attacking fleet is in the open
Why would they fire from a position that lacks defense? You're still not making sense. Your scenarios are neither all inclusive nor even sensical.
>What is a
A type of artillery, but not all types and certainly not long range or even heavy bombardment.
>Except for you know they use
Space is nothing like the sea. And again, artillery is a huge part of carrier warfare. You seem to be under the impression that air carriers travel alone or that temp/semi-permanent defensive positions are not used. You're dead wrong as usual.
>I don't get why you want Napoleonic Gundam, and the whole idea is silly.
I don't get why you're so angry. Your points have no real basis, you're literally just running on hatred at the expense of logic.

>>13800755

Just watch the show. It's what 99% of viewers did and they were fine.

>>13801073
>artillery
>not a CENTRAL component of carrier warfare
what the FUCK do you think we have so many DDGs and SSGNs for?

Minovsky particles always seemed like a cop-out anyway. Like Tomino couldn't think of another way to avoid the OWY just being an ICBM war.

>>13800576
Minovsky can mess with your line of sight IIRC, it's why all ships and mobile suits are just CG references based on basic visual information and supposedly a compiled database.

In G-Reco, the G-Selfs Assault Pack has a photon eye scope and a couple suits have photon missiles which hit their target through minovsky dense areas.

>>13801217
Anon, these are giant bipedal robots for military use we're talking about. Please, try to be more reasonable.

>>13801212
Former is crucial for fleet defense, latter is crucial for fleet offense.

>>13801301
And takes over the role of the CL, CA and BB. Which is artillery.

>>13801337
Actually I think direct attack is the job of CG and LCS.

And Zumwalts.

>>13801300
>Anon, these are giant bipedal robots for military use we're talking about. Please, try to be more reasonable.

You can't make a thread about realistic warfare and then just handwave the elephant in the room

>>13800977

Or massive fleets save libra and narge. Most MS actions were assisted by asteroid bases

File: Minovsky Jamming.jpg (23KB, 848x480px) Image search: [Google]

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Obligatory Pic
This is what you see in MS IGLOO under Minovsky jamming.

Also :
- it jam IR
- it jam the visible spectrum (brightly colored MS was because of it)
- it jam radar into uselessness
- and it fuck with the inside of unprotected electronic

Just for information : Right Now, the electronic circuit within computer are becoming so small that (real) particles from space make laptop crash more often when you travel by plane.

All the above explaining why you have shitty missile guidance, whereas Mobile Suit have much more protected electronic for their own (large lens) sensor.

>>13800576
Minovsky lensing, son. The actual location of a target is different from what you see. This is why the GM lines the shot up, then after missing, guides the two distant relative shots in order to line them up posthumerously. It also depends on triangulated perspectives of the target, via ground-wire to estimate its position with any accuracy.

>>13801485
>>13804089
>they didn't read the thread

>>13801300
>Anon, these are giant bipedal robots for military use we're talking about.

This.
Even the much vaunted real robot director Ryosuke Takahashi had to resort to just sort of hand-waving his use of giant robots in military settings rather than try and come up with a good reason for them.

Like it or not, you kind of need to take a little bullshit if you're gonna roll with this.

>>13801185
WHAT?
When the fuck did this happen.
Actually this will be super popular even to non anime fans, its pure sci-fi. I wonder how different it is.

>>13804720
>we want the Baen books space opera audience

>>13804727
As long as they don't put anime on the front cover it could sell like crazy, I feel that description is kinda bad though for its really in depth theme. Its basically sci-fi A song of ice and fire, it could take off if they promote it correctly.

>>13804763
It's literally old Napoleonic warfare repackaged into a space opera narrative.

I expect it to be more tolerable than the average Baen catalog entry (Honor Harrington is kinda too stupid for my tastes), but it's not going to be the next big thing, let alone something considered high brow.

>>13801185
How many pages was each volume? I might buy it if its 10 freaking bucks. Im sure its a lot different for its anime adaptation but that was even perfect. Only thing missing will be the gore in your face and VA.

Ah never mind its 400 pages, pretty good. most Steven king novels are about that long and they are worth it.