Isn't it strange that when a protagonist jumps in to the middle of a group of named villains and takes them all on at once while making physics their bitch and all the named villains acting like they're half asleep to achieve it the majority cry foul and act like it's a heinous crime on the part of the writers, yet if a villain does it to a group of heroes the majority fellate the villain and act like he's the coolest guy ever?
Heat sword wasn't heated. I don't really follow heat swords in general. Sometimes they're solid and they glow, sometimes they're treated as clear like a beam sword, and the gouf custom's is just completely inert. It's like he just forgot to turn it on.
Those Dom sword things are just as bad. What the fuck even are they?
Norris Packard (08th MS) and Ramba Raul (0079) were not newtypes, but this isn't about the pilots.
The Gouf Custom represents the pinnacle of Zeon tech during the one year war. Its significantly faster than a Zaku II, and Id be willing to bet that its faster than Char's Zaku. The Gouf custom meets heavy, close quarters, and melee combat needs without having to carry extravagant amounts of equipment.
I would reason that with a Gouf custom Char would have stomped Amuro into the dirt.
>>13790450 >This is the moment you realize Ral was fully capable of wiping the floor with everyone in the World Tournament
Look at that shit, his bullets didn't even land on half the explosions made. And it wasn't like his bullets made explosions that chained explosions outwards no, people just magically started blowing up in parallel.
>>13790858 i haven't either but if i had to guess it may be from the shin matsunaga manga series since it's the only one i've read that has various zeon aces together in multiple scenes and hardly any of it has been translated
>>13790883 the official name of the manga is "Mobile Suit Gundam The Plot to Assassinate Gihren". it's a little long and has a small amount of mobile suit combat for the first part of it but is an interesting and cool story none the less. then in the latter part of it, has some of the best mobile suit battles i've ever seen in a manga
also i have lately been seriously considering getting another HG gouf custom to paint in Lance Gerfield's custom colors.
>>13790172 >Find a flaw Everything it does the Dom can do better if its loadout is changed out for it.
Dom has heavier armor, is faster in a ground fight, is more agile (albeit not as maneuverable due to its bulk), and has heavier armor to boot. Just give it the Gouf Custom's heat sword and gatling shield and tell Zeonic to suck Zimmad dick because they built a blue higher-spec Zaku.
>>13791115 It makes sense for CQB to have it so short. I dont like it becuz like the sheild gat it is spray and pray, but that little box magazine wouldn't hold more than 5000 rounds. if its anything like an A-10 warthog, it would blow thru 1500 of those in 10-15 sec burst.
>>13790172 The Gouf Custom was less a refinement and more a salvage attempt of a mobile suit whose development was abruptly ended. As such, Gouf Custom is all in all very flawed, and inferior to a number of other Zeon and Federation suits.
First, it was ground-combat only. Second, it was steel-alloy armored. Third, its gatling shield occupied the entirety of the suit's left arm, and because of it, restricted the use of the digits as well as the 3-barrel machinegun beneath. It was unstowable, unlike most later gatling types. Fourth, its heat sword was, while generally applicable, inferior in reach and power to beam swords. Fifth, despite possessing two melee weapons, the Gouf Custom was unable of employing both at the same time. Sixth, the heat sword's stowage was located in the shield, which rendered the sword vulnerable when blocking fire, and furthermore, without any safe stowage if the shield itself was not included, or broken. Seventh, the suit was very heavy when fully loaded - over 77 tons, less than a ton short of the massive Rick Dom. Eight, it was not significantly faster than the original Gouf. Most of all, as a dead-end research path, it could not compete with the speed of the Dom or its descendants. Ninth, it had a weeny reactor output, at 1034 KW. This is the exact same as the original Gouf's, as such leading one to believe that the suit had only minor advances in mobility and physical power over the original. This reactor output is a pale shadow of the 1380 KW of the basic Gundam series, or even the 1200+ of Doms.
I could keep going, but I still have to say that I liked the mobile suit.
>>13791107 It would never outperform it in very dense terrain like mountains or Jungles though. The Gouf was never going to be a full replacement for the Zaku II even if the production hadn't been canceled.
But yes if you had to make one of the two youd make the Dom. But if you just had to make one zeek massed produced suit youd make the Gelgoog, was better than the Gundam.
>>13791630 >the Gelgoog, was better than the Gundam. The RX-78-2 was still better than the Gelgoog in several combat respects. However the Gelgoog had far more utility as it was an MP mobile suit built to accept loadouts for varying missions and not a prototype testbed. Later Gundams like the Alex within the same continuity (and the ridiculous side Gundams that also appear during the OYW that make the RX-78-2/3 look like a GM, like the Mudrock) also go back to being overpowered compared to the Gelgoog as if it were a Zaku.
>>13790172 >Find a flaw It's a blue Zaku. There, I said it. I really don't understand at all how the Gouf is any better than a Zaku other than its weaponry selection. Even gundam games don't make it any much better a Zaku other than its weapon selection.
>>13791660 Zaku are space MS, the Zaku being used on earth were just space Zaku with some of the thrusters removed. The Gouf was developed as solely a ground MS and was never meant to fully phase out the Zaku even before the significantly superior Dom came along
>>13791660 Ask Amuro "it's got more power than a Zaku" Ray. It's just straight up stronger/faster/better.
Although the problem is that when the Gouf's performance was described in MSG a Zaku was just a Zaku but later material decided that Char's Zaku needed to have higher specs and added shit like the G-type which make it hard to maintain an obvious performance gap. But while the Gundam could just fucking molest a Zaku in hand to hand combat the Gouf could keep up.
> the villain usually doesn't get praised in-show for beating up sedate grunts
The 08th MS team might as well be grunts here, and spend the first two or three minutes of the fight talking about what an amazing pilot Norris is. Even Norris himself has a couple of lines about how they're scrubs and he'll show them a real pilot. Which runs at odds with how stupid they have to act to facilitate him coming off that good. When he first appears on the rooftop he literally stands stock still for 20 seconds as he counts up the suits and where the guntanks are during which no-one fires at him despite the fact he's in a highly visible position from which multiple people should have sights on him. Sure, there's probably some degree of time fuckery there for the sake of drama, but he's definitely standing still in a vulnerable position for at least a short while. When they do fire, he casually walks a few paces backwards as Karen lets off just one shot at him despite the fact he's a sitting duck up there and while the may not be able to get the greatest accuracy at that range (which is being extremely generous given it's only a few blocks at most), they should still be able to hit him, especially if more than one person tried with more than one shot.
The show makes no bones about the fact it wants you to view Norris as super awesome pilot and it definitely works to a point, but the protagonists need to act with all the speed of a sloth to make it work. They stand around commenting or discussing what he's doing constantly and most of the time either don't shoot or the plot just fucks with them - like all of Shiro's shots managing to hit everything around the Gouf, but never the Gouf itself when he uses his chest vulcans with his machinegun. He hits several streets around him but doesn't land one shot on the Gouf out of hundreds.
It's a good fight, but it's highly dependent on making the protagonists shit to work.
Ditch the dialogue fellating Norris and let the viewer decide for themselves whether he's a good pilot or not. Cutting that extraneous dialogue will have the bonus of speeding up a lot of the reactions and cuts, making the fight more dynamic in the process. Have Karen force him to retreat with more alacrity from the top of the pyramid building. Have the Guntank make some effort at retreat while he's descending and put up a little bit of fight. Have Karen do more than just stand there in shock while Norris totals the second Guntank. In fact, she should force him to work to get that second one, expending or sacrificing one of his weapons or something to manage it. Have Shiro manage to take out his shield/gatling when he fires off the machine gun and vulcans together. Norris abandons them not long after anyways, so there's no reason not to. Have Shiro not act like a complete moron when fighting him, not closing his eyes and blind firing or acting like the Gouf lifting pavement is some herculean act for example. Karen and Sanders should force Norris to retreat while Norris rearms too, instead of just standing there while he holds Shiro and making no effort to flank him.
Just those small touches alone would improve it a lot. You could give him one or two team-mates to even the odds and allow the 08th MS team more room to act without destroying him so that everyone gets a better chance to partake in the battle, or just re-work things entirely to do so as well, but sticking close to what's there you can still improve it in several small ways.
I don't agree. The main reason he gets anywhere during the fight is because he's willing to act boldly. He jumps in front of the gatling guns fire to shield the second guntank, he uses the backpack system to stick to the building and slow his descent so as to get some shots off and he disarms himself so as to be able to hit the Gouf in a melee. None of those were dependent on better stats of any kind. If anything, when watching that fight I'd say that the Gouf is the better machine - or at least has a better weapons load out. It appears to be able to move faster than the 08th MS team can or even expect another machine to be able to a couple of times too, like when Karen is trying to defend the second Guntank and it disappears from her line of sight and re-appears on top of the Guntank far from where she expected it. Yea, Norris used the smoke as cover, but she was still shocked at where he'd gotten himself and how fast regardless.
The official stats can say that the Gouf Custom is far out-performed by the Ground Gundams and Ez8 all it wants, but it certainly doesn't appear that way on screen.
>>13794058 The Dom is the Worf MS of Zeon quite simply because it looks the beefiest and most powerful (thus when you want to show off that someone is losing or getting its ass kicked, you let a Dom rather than a Zaku explode).
>>13796420 It's an oddly recurring typo for a lot of English material of the Gouf Custom to say it was armored in Luna Titanium (Gundarium). Somewhere along the translation line someone fucked up immensely (setting-wise), but it was copypasted endlessly from there.
>>13796833 Seriously! the dude took out three guntanks, put some damage on Sanders and majorly damaged Shiro.
Considering it was a 1 vs 6 fight and he was up against a beam rifle, 180mm cannon, beam sabres, and artillery guided by the command truck. He made a fucking good effort of covering the escape of the Kergeren and slowing the advance on the Zeon base.
>>13798560 There's a disconnect between the specifications of a unit given, and how it actually performs when animated. The Dom did get more kills than the Gouf in MSG, Rick Doms just got wasted. Overall MS-09 derivatives got more kills the MS-07 units, also they got an awesome Beam Bazooka.
>>13798618 Same could be said of the Gouf Custom's gatling, it's not seen outside of the SEA Zeon base units. Doms did also use the standard ballistic weapons because they didn't have retarded finger guns. The best attributes of the Dom were the speed, the heavy armor, and a way to blind enemy censors for a moment.
>>13791283 No it wasn't, it was made for ground based combat. The fact that it has better melee weapons than the Zaku is just a natural progression of technology. The Gelgoog has an even better melee weapon yet you never see anyone call that thing a melee suit.
>>13791290 Your first, fifth, sixth, and ninth points are all wrong, and the rest are just pointless nit picking. You forget that there was a flight type gouf custom as well. Never mind the fact it is moronic to try and act like a mobile suit made for a specific purpose can only serve that purpose. Aquatic suits can only operate in water, but that doesn't make them bad.
Next, the Gouf Custom only has one melee weapon. It is the normal gouf type that has two melee weapons. The Custom replaced the heat rod whip with a magnetic grappler that is used not as a weapon but as a utility item. I don't even see how that would be a knock to the Gouf anyways, since nearly all Gundam carry two or more beam sabers. What's wrong with having a back up weapon again? Please elaborate.
I have no clue how you could think the sword could be damage from enemy fire, especially when it is underneath a shied. A weapon that is design to be banged against the armor of another suit is clearly strong enough to withstand enemy fire. This is like thinking an arrow will destroy someones sword.
Reactor output is an absolutely meaningless stat. 0080, 0083, 08th, ZZ, Unicorn have all shown legacy OYW mechs capable of taking out top of the line suits which much higher reactor outputs. All the reactor output means is the suit is more expensive to produce and nothing more.
>>13796833 >The official stats can say that the Gouf Custom is far out-performed by the Ground Gundams and Ez8 all it wants, but it certainly doesn't appear that way on screen.
Have you never seen Top Gear? A good driver/pilot is needed to push a machine to its maximum. It has been demonstrated countless times that a lesser machine with a better driver beats out a better machine with a lesser driver. That doesn't mean the lesser machine is somehow magically better than the stats say.
>>13798515 Ebay >>13798634 >>13798667 That was only the original gouf. the B3 Custom and others did not have it. >>13798734 >Clearly there is some if Ramba Ral wanted Doms instead of Goufs, if given Doms he can destroy the White Base >>> > Anonymous 01/26/16(Tue)05:30:49 No.13798793▶ >>>13791283 >No it wasn't, it was made for ground based combat. The fact that it has better melee weapons than the Zaku is just a natural progression of technology. The Gelgoog has an even better melee weapon yet you never see anyone call that thing a melee suit. >>>13791290 Im pretty sure that Ramba Ral had a gouf because the Dom didn't meet his needs in some way. >>13798793 Gouf flight seems like a sad attempt at trying to beat out the Dom's popularity. I think anon means the heat whip/grapple as the second melee
I'm about to do some really weird math. >>13795643 >>13795656 >>13795663 The gouf B3 has a power/weight ratio of .0081, as it weighs 77.6 tons /1034kw The ground gundam comes in at .0112 Ez8, .0117 Rick Dom, almost a ton heavier than the gouf, .0092 gouf flight type .0088
Now lets do thrust/weight ratio, calculated at 0 degrees off center with normal earth gravity. gouf custom ratio: 0.542, max accelleration: -10mph ground gundam 0.711, max accelleration: -6mph ez8 0.738, max accelleration: -5.5mph rick dom 0.673 max accelleration: -7mph gouf flight type 1.396, max accelleration: 8.6mph
I have hereby proven that all gundam stats are superiorly flawed.
Source Power/weight http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepower/horsepower_equation_power_to_weight_ratio.php#ajscroll Thrust/weight http://sinsgaming.altervista.org/thrust-to-weight-ratio-calculator.html Kilograms to Kilonewtons http://www.convertunits.com/from/kilonewtons/to/kilograms-force M/s's to mph https://www.google.es/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=meters%20per%20second%20to%20mph&es_th=1
>>13799229 a reminder that the thrust calculation is for a vertical launch. therefore, the only one of these that could get off the ground is the Gouf flight type, so any amount of jumping or boosted jumping in the anime is absolutely ludicrous
>>13799229 >Im pretty sure that Ramba Ral had a gouf because the Dom didn't meet his needs in some way. You're wrong then and need to rewatch MSG, he requests Doms and is visibly troubled when he doesn't get them. Why he doesn't get them is M'Quve playing politics, if he gets them according to Gihren's Greed he often destroys or captures White Base and the Gundam.
Jeremy Clarkson is an extremely experienced driver. He's been driving professionally for roughly 40 years. He can perform many tricks, like drifting, flicks, heel and toe shifting and so on. He is, compared to the average person a fast, efficient driver. He is not a properly fast driver though and very likely never will be, because experience and skill do not automatically make you a great driver who can push a car to it's limits. His lap times around the Top Gear test track have been beaten by numerous celebrities, often times folks with far less experience and apparent skill. A proper racing professional blows him out of the water with no real effort, even folks with much less experience and that has been proven numerous times on Top Gear too.
Richard Hammond and James May are even better examples of the same thing. And that despite May taking personal lessons in speed and technique from a world-renowned racing driver like Jackie Stewart. They don't have the drive to go all out regardless of danger, they don't have the sense of timing to know just when to shift up/down or to apply brakes/acceleration for maximum benefit that even years of experience can't teach, they don't have the reaction speeds to apply that knowledge and they don't have the innate talent to really feel and drive a car to it's limits.
You are assuming that just because Norris Packard has relatively greater experience piloting (perhaps a year to their 6 months given the timeline) and knows a few tricks that he has all the hallmarks that denote true talent on the part of a pilot and there's really no reason to do so. Especially when you consider that the entire team he was fighting had to be gimped in order for him to pull off what he did in the first place. Outside of the rope swing trick to slow his fall there's really nothing impressive in what he does to say that he's keeping up despite the suit instead of because of it.
Especially when you consider that Shiro shows just as much improvised skill with less experience and keeps up with Norris once they start to fight each other, so if Packard can be said to be keeping up despite his suit because of those things, then so can Shiro. And they can't both be piloting machines inferior to each other and keeping up because of skill.
All he did to take the Gundam pilot hostage was hold it, during which time his two team-mates literally just stand there when he's in a big open space and they could easily circle him to ensure he can't use Shiro as cover against both of them. Which is the kind of thing I mean by him being rather unimpressive in how he gets all the guntanks and it mostly being down to the 08th MS team being forced to act like idiots to enable it. His grabbing the sword was good intuition though and I should have mentioned it. It doesn't do anything to prove he's actually pushing his suit though - only that the pilot is capable of thinking quickly on his feet. Which Shiro also proved several times in that same fight by ripping his own arm off to give himself a new weapon, using the backpack to slow his descent and so on.
>>13800421 name a point in any other series when another pilot did the same thing. I cant think of any. >only that the pilot is capable of thinking quickly on his feet how do you think you live in combat fucktard
We're not discussing whether he's a good pilot though - only whether he's a pilot who is carrying his machine or not. And him being able to hook his sword from a few hundred feet away (which is probably an exaggeration of the actually distance involved) doesn't prove he is carrying his machine, any more than Shiro using his arm as a club would prove he was carrying his machine through. Only that they're good pilots with a good sense of battle intuition.
And no, I can't name a time in another series where another pilot did that exact same thing, I can sure name plenty of times that pilots have shown extraordinary accuracy over distance though, which is all that's an example of at the end of the day. Loran was able to force a SUMO pilot in to an armlock and use it's gun while it was still in the SUMO's hand to hit a specific point of a moving target at a greater distance within the span of a few seconds because he had no gun of his own and needed to hit something. A feat for which he can't have relied on software to do the aiming for him.
>>13790172 Much like German heavy tanks, it's too expensive and hard to maintain to be practical. If the Feddies can have 5 RGM-79Gs (a damn good mobile suit) for every Gouf (an exceptional mobile suit) things ain't gonna work out.
>>13800492 >I can sure name plenty of times that pilots have shown extraordinary accuracy over distance though Where a machine, with gyros and stabilizers, allowed a person to push a button and cause something to happen. >forgot about Loran, thats semi-impressive
I think it's the most impressive bit of accuracy in Gundam personally, because it's impossible to attribute it to the unit he's using on any level since the Turn-A's palm isn't connected to the gun he's shooting and so it's software isn't connected to the gun at all. And yet he still hits a moving target a good distance away with precision and has only a few seconds to consider how to do it and act upon it. Any other shot is going to be something you can put on the machine in some fashion, whether it be helping aim the shot, keep the gun steady or give it the necessary distance. Amuro rigging up the Nu's beam rifle to hit Char is about the only other one I think is even remotely comparable.
>>13798560 >explain how getting trounced justifies it being oh-so superior to the Gouf. Because aside from it jobbing onscreen, it's literally a superior MS to the Gouf.
The Gouf line got cancelled for the Dom in-setting for a reason. It just couldn't plain compete with the Dom's maneuverability and overland speed, as well as it having heavier armor against solid projectile weaponry and as well a generally larger weaponry selection.
>gouf must be higher performance because a better pilot can do more shit in it than a scrub in a better suit Daily reminder that Gelgoog pilots were fucking n00bs and that doesn't make the GM higher performance
>>13790373 If memory serves he resolved to give his life to ensure the fleeing zeek ship's escape. And then later took it a step further and didn't kill Shiro because it'd hurt Aina-sama's precious feelings. It also might have been that Norris was concerned about ammo and chose to merely deflect the 08th until the Guntanks were destroyed and then engage the team.
> didn't kill Shiro because it'd hurt Aina-sama's precious feelings
I don't get that from it at all. If he sacrifices himself for anything it's to ensure he gets the third Guntank, which for some reason is right in his line of sight despite being his obvious target for the entire battle. I wouldn't even be sure of that though, the way it's set up seems to suggest he just flat out lost and grabbed a pyrrhic victory despite it, not that he deliberately let himself get killed for Aina or the guntank.
>>13798793 You seem to be focusing on outright ignoring or refusing to believe the issues regarding the Gouf Custom arrayed before you. Bad form, worse arguments. Worst being outright dismissing reactor output.
Let me present one more reason why the Gouf Custom was flawed: its reactor was too weak to support beam weaponry. And beam weaponry are inherently superior to ballistic weaponry. If you even as much as try to avoid it, I hope Amuro sees you talking shit, and the last thing you ever hear is "BYEEEOOOMM".
>>13799229 As pointed out above, Ramba Ral was sent Doms by Kycilia, but the delivery was blocked by the in-between, M'Quve, who felt the death of Ral to be a merit to his end. He felt Ral might have witnessed his embezzlement and misuse of military resources for his personal pursuits.
Another thing that suddenly came to mind was the gatling shield's caliber. While Gundam is notoriously idiotic in its presentation of different calibers, it is particularily eye-stinging that this massive, obviously primary weapon the B3 has been granted is actually 75 caliber. To further elaborate, 105mm is currently the smallest caliber of tank gun to reliably penetrate MBT armour on all sides. Weapons employing caliber below that are almost invariably for side armour only, or applicable for firing top-attack ATGMs. The Gouf's gatling being an autocannon, and every mobile suit's armour being inherently superior to that of tanks, of today or of the universal century, leads me to believe that it is justified to say that the weapon itself was underpowered for its weight and in comparison to others.
To provide an in-universe example of a more "reasonable" gatling, I present to you the MS-06JK Zaku Half Cannon, firing 120mm rounds that are both logistically easier due to existing stores, as well as offering - in real world terms - better penetration.
I always wonder whether Zaku and GM machinegun rounds are all just saboted low-power rounds. They all seem very tame.
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