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How do we fix Gundam?
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha

Thread replies: 127
Thread images: 12
How do we fix Gundam?
>>
Put it on indefinite hiatus, the whole franchise including the merch, and shift focus on other, new shows.
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>>13785541
Stop making AU. Stop making OYW shit with super secret prototype Gundams. Start making more late UC era like F91.
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>>13785673
>Start making more late UC era like F91.

>start making more things that barely sell, do not draw fans in and are unpopular

Good idea.

There's a reason Late UC got left behind.
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>>13785769
To be fair 0079 got cancelled on its original run. Also F91 came out during a huge financial crisis so Sunrise didn't pour as many resources into as it needed to be more successful. That plus F91 was released around the same time as 0083. 0083 got an OVA but F91 was just a 2 hour movie. Then Victory had its problems with Tomino's depression, because of what happened with Bandai and Sunrise. They haven't really tried as hard to do a later UC series. Hell, there was that poll last year where fans said they wanted Crossbone animated over other mangas.
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>>13785816
This, late UC would work, only reason it hasn't is bandai kept sabotaging it in some way, or in the case of victory tomino him self trying to fuck it up. (Albeit because of bandai)
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>>13785547
>shift focus on other, new shows
>Implying anything we've gotten in the past five years has been any better

I don't disagree with you anon, but Valvrave and A/Z sucked too.
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>>13785541
>fixing gundam
>post a picture of the biggest problem of the franchise

You're off to a fine start.
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>>13785541
We kill you
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>>13785839

>Hell, there was that poll last year where fans said they wanted Crossbone animated over other mangas.

Yeah, how many?

A handful of outspoken voices who are inexplicably attracted to an incredibly dated manga do not equal the majority, and Late UC works underperformed for reasons other than 'Tomino was maybe depressed' and '1991 was the beginning of the end for the Japanese asset price bubble.'

Flinging UC decades into the future and divorcing the audience from everything it knew probably contributed immensely.
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>>13785861
>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-02-12/fans-pick-mobile-suit-crossbone-gundam-as-no.1-completed-manga-they-want-animated/.84335
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>>13785894
>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-02-12/fans-pick-mobile-suit-crossbone-gundam-as-no.1-completed-manga-they-want-animated/.84335

>One website

>As far as I can tell, no voting figures given

Hoo boy.
>>
>>13785900
>Doesn't know how to use google or click on links within the article posted.
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>>13785861
Why are you responding to me I'm not even the guy you green texted.
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>>13785769
It barely sells because they only tried to make non manga related things about it like twice and gave up entirely.
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>>13786002

Yeah, it's not like the actual manga of late UC's much better, is it? The only thing people seem to remember is the original Crossbone. Ghost seems naff, no-one remembers the weird V Gundam side story and F90 was shit.
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>>13785541
- remake Gundam 0079 in newer artwork type instead of QUALITY type.
- making Gundam Sousei into anime.

there you go, problem solved.
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>>13785541
>How do we fix Gundam?

Make everything in the franchise more like the one group of series not on that list: Build Fighters.
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>>13786255
>making Gundam Sousei into anime
Even better, make a live action by the guys who did Aoi Honoo
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>>13786290
that would be glorious!

i wonder what Tomino's thought when Gundam Sousei gets green light animated.
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>>13786255
>>13786290
>>13786304
>Gundam Sousei gets adapted into an anime

>/m/ complains that Gundam still sucks anyway

Myeah. That doesn't fix anything.
>>
Stop pandering to fujoshits.

Also slow the fuck down. A new Gundam something every six months is going to cause another early 90s situation where people get sick of it.
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>>13786355

/m/ complains about everything though. 4chan boards should never be taken as the majority opinion on anything and their insistence that they're the only ones who are "right" and everyone else has shit taste should fall on deaf ears.
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>>13785541
Recognize that the crowning achievements of the Gundam franchise are 0079, 0080 and Turn-A and build upon their strengths.
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Drop anything involving Newtypes.
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>>13785547
>including the merch

And like that, the Bandai execs will place the blade in your hand and demand hara kiri to atone for what would be a disastrous business decision.
>>
Just remaster 0079.
>>
>The Origin

A char origin story sounded great but too bad its boring as fuck
>>
Set in present day, 6 space pods suddenly land on earth, each containing a GUNDAM. Inside each pod was a single word, written in every language known to man (and even some unrecognizable): SURVIVE.

The GUNDAM are huge and ridiculously overpowered by modern standards, and are literal country-destroying superweapons - to the point where if any superpower had control of just two GUNDAM instead of one, they could easily take over the world. The 6 landed in the following areas: USA, Japan, Russia, Germany, India and Brazil. Indian engineers are the first to properly interface with a GUNDAM, and within weeks they eradicate Pakistan and take over the Middle East. The other countries frantically catch up and defend their borthers. Each country quickly becomes a regional superpower, with all neighboring countries subsumed under their control after the first few careless demonstrations of the power of GUNDAM.
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>>13787147
The story proper starts twenty years later. The world is teetering on a delicate peace. Although the Mutually Assured Destruction guaranteed by the existence of GUNDAM prevents open war, tensions are higher than ever with GUNDAM reminding everyone how close annihilation is. GUNDAM are close to being revered as the a patron saints and Holy Guardians of each region. [Generic Not-Japanese Name Here] has trained all his life for the extremely selective GUNDAM Pilot Programme, after his parents were killed in atrocities in the early months of the appearance of GUNDAM. After years of singular focus of qualifying, he is finally annointed as one of the selected few to pilot GUNDAM and serve and protect his motherland.

But questions still abound about the GUNDAM. Signs point to GUNDAM being sent from humans in the future rather than from space, but for what purpose? Initially, humanity believed that they were meant as weapons to defend against alien invasion, but after twenty years of no show and geopolitical tensions, it becomes increasingly plausible that SURVIVE referred to surviving the coming war against the other powers. There are further signs that there were supposed to be 8 GUNDAM in total, but only 6 have been found.

But none of this matters right now. By the end of the first episode, reports have confirmed that Russian spies have successfully infiltrated and taken control of India's GUNDAM.
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>>13785541
By getting better taste.
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>>13787002
Actually if they pulled a star wars and made nothing new for 7-10 years, they could come back and due to nostalgiafags and people who want in because they see those nostalgiafags hyping it, they would probably make a killing
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>>13787154
sooo heavy object?
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>>13787175
When has Star Wars ever not made anything new?
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>>13787182
Hadn't heard about that. Any good?
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>>13785547
Wouldn't that collapse both Bandai and Sunrise in a single action?

Rather than cutting off two business' metaphorical legs, that's like cutting out their liver. It's not obviously necessary but they won't last without it.
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>>13787200
I put it on haiatus since episode 1 didn't really catch my attention

>>13787189
I meant the movies
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>>13787064
>A char origin story sounded great
No it didn't, we already knew why Casval becomes Char, we didn't need to see it.
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>>13785541
>0079
>bad fights
More like it had the only good fights in the entire fucking series
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>>13787645
You're exagerating
every Tomino Gundam has good fights because his storyboards are great
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>>13787651
>Zeta
>ZZ
>CCA
>Turn A
>good fights
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>>13785673
The answer is simple: adapt Gaia Gear as a TV series.

It has everything for fans of early UC and late UC:
>Char clone of Char
>latter day Zeon
>Missed part of the UC timeline that gives closure to the post Victory time period
>>
>>13787189

The movies were done for years, and then the latest episode 7 came out.

Not only did the nostalgia fags flock to it but a bunch of people that had never seen them decided to take a chance to see what this Star Wars thing everyone was always talking about was.
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>>13787673
Only problem is the IP ownership might be in sketchy territory.
>in before Tomino becomes one with the Ide before that can happen
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>>13787679
Apparently it was published by Kadokawa. Considering all the flops they back you'd think they'd be happy to help sponsor Gaia Gear if the Gundam name was slapped on it
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>>13787656
That's right.
>>
SEED third season.
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>>13787764
I would honestly love this to see how bad it would be and the level of butthurt on /m/ and /a/ would probably create an online equivalent of the 3rd impact
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>>13786383
Oh I know. I just wish /m/ would be the board to pull it's head out of it's own ass once in a while.
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>>13785541
You can't. At best, what you can do is move the stories to a different direction (i.e. space exploration like in the end of the 00 movie and Stargazer). But by doing that, it would no longer be "Gundam". Then again, I'm kind of glad it didn't shift its focus, otherwise it would have become another travesty like modern Macross.
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>>13787698
>if the Gundam name was slapped on it

and there's the rub.
Given Tomino didn't want it to be part of Gundam so it could stand on its own, that could create some bad press right there.
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Frozen Teardrop animated
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>>13788114
>You can't. At best, what you can do is move the stories to a different direction (i.e. space exploration like in the end of the 00 movie and Stargazer). But by doing that, it would no longer be "Gundam".

And what's wrong with that? The best Gundam series (i.e. Build Fighters, G, and 0080) are the ones that deviate the most from the original series.
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>>13788158
>The best Gundam series
>G
Well, I guess it's not surprising coming from a build babby, like you.
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>>13788114
>Then again, I'm kind of glad it didn't shift its focus, otherwise it would have become another travesty like modern Macross.

But Macross has never shifted its focus.
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>>13788170
But he's right, 08th baby.

>inb4 No reason to pretend.
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>>13788193
I haven't watched 08th, actually.

0080 is A-ok.
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>>13785541
>0079 has bad fights

It literally has the best battle choreography in the entire series.
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A late UC show about the Saturn colonies, Jewdough, Roux, whom ever it was in that Qubeley, and their trip outside the solar system with millions of other newtypes.
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>>13788178
>But Macross has never shifted its focus.

Delta is arguable, but you'd be blind to think 7 has anything to do with SDF other than singing.
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A show about full-on interstellar warfare.
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>>13785541
Oh hey, I wrote that.
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>>13788322
>forced drama

What does it feel like to be a dumbass?
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Actual good writing.

99% of mecha show plots are shit because these Directors are fucking dumb as fuck. Their influences are anime and manga and their target audience are retarded otaku who crave fanservice and pandering.

Tomino and Takahashi are basically the only guys who actually try to make something not retarded out of mecha, but the industry just doesn't work like that. You either pander to retards or you get the fuck out.
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>>13788356
>are basically the only guys
So, I take it you don't watch much mecha?
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>>13788318
"Turn X Gundam", the story of how humans left the Earth Sphere but continued warring
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>>13788344
The entire list is sarcastic and intentionally hyperbolic, I actually like most Gundam shows even acknowledging that they do have problems. All shows have problems. Nothing is perfect.
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>>13785547
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eSE33DDSLs
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>>13788369

I do, and I also read actual books and watch actual cinema.

The only reason someone would not consider most /m/ shows to be shittily written is if they haven't actually been exposed to good writing.

I think it's safe to say that nothing in tbe Mecha genre has come close to touching NGE (the original, not the trash that is Rebuild) in terms of complexity ever since it was released.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think shit writing breaks a series, otherwise I wouldn't be here watching shit like VVV and MuvLuv, but I do think we need some directors who solo influences aren't exclusively anime and manga, because the genre is stale as fuck and just keeps reusing the same concepts and characters over and over again.
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>>13787764
SEED third season handled by people other than Fukuda and his wife.

Third Build Fighters by Fukuda and Morosawa.

Crossbone OVA.
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>>13787764
I hate SEED with a passion, but i'd actually love this for the same reason >>13787985 would. It'd be fucking hilarious.
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>>13788480

Front Mission DL and DS writer? Oh wait he is working on Thunderbolt.
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>>13788480
>>
Let me rewrite Zeta, then adapt it into an adult-oriented TV show that does not pander to children . Have it be more gritty, long, and grandiose. Let's have LSD like Newtype hallucinations, explore Quattro and Kamille's bond, flesh out Four and Kamille's relationship, redeem Jerid's character, talk about masculinity, and give Amuro more to do. Let's have Scirocco be more of a misunderstood messiah than a generic antagonist. Let's throw in a very powerful, Newtype supremacist as an antagonist that is very fixated with Kamille's abilities. Let's explore Char's history with Haman and the trauma that caused him to walk away from Neo-Zeon. Let's spend more time watching Kamille grow from a character fueled by revenge to a character fueled by his love for humanity. That's how I'd fix it.
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>>13788772

Eh. DL/DS was pretty edgy, I wouldn't call it good writing, but it was entertaining, and unique.

>>13788776

I knew I'd get this exact reply, but you know it's true. Modern anime in general is written by anime fans who apparently don't consume anything other than anime, and that shows itself in the poor quality of the writing, and even the "deep" series end up looking like the author went and read up some wikipedia summary on entry level philosophy just to try and make his work seem smarter than it really is.
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>>13788867
>and even the "deep" series end up looking like the author went and read up some wikipedia summary on entry level philosophy just to try and make his work seem smarter than it really is.

>praises NGE
>says this
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>>13788480
>I do, and I also read actual books and watch actual cinema.
That makes two of us.

Now, riddle me this then, if you're so well read, how can you find NGE complex? It's very straightforward, even if its presentation is obfuscatory.

RahXephon (while I don't think it's better) is, I would argue more complex, and the presentation is even more apparently confusing than NGE.

Argento Soma I would say has some very good commentary on humanity.

Despite, Bluetoko, ARISE is one of the better /m/ series of late, and it's certainly not retarded.
I'd venture to say it even offers a better defense for pacifism than G-Reco did, which was very heavy handed, frankly.
Interestingly, enough ARISE is a series that reuses concepts from its progenitor.

>The only reason someone would not consider most /m/ shows
Now friend, nowhere in my post did I suggest that "most /m/" is well written, nor do I think it is.

>I do think we need some directors who solo influences aren't exclusively anime and manga
I don't really disagree all that much, but with most anime, significantly more power is given to the screenwriter.
Bear with me for a moment; Shall we say (ideally, and frequently enough) a book's hierarchy would be: writer>publisher>editor, and a film's would be: director>producer>cinematographer>screenwriter. In contrast to that, with anime It seems that in cases where the director is not writing, then the pecking order (actually) flows something like: producer>screenwriter>director>animation director. What I'm getting at is that it has less to do with the caliber of talent, but more with the fact that a director often has less influence over a script in anime, and consequently, less of an opportunity to impart their creative vision over a corporate one.

As to recycling, I don't think it's inherently a bad thing either. However, there's a lot that is dull, and I can't deny that.
>>
We do nothing, we have no way to influence it.

So all we can do is sit and watch.
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>>13788877

That's because NGE isn't entry-level philosophy, it is a deeply personal look into the authors own battle with depression in an industry in which fan pandering and strict guidelines were supposed to be traditionally followed, and for that alone I respect it immensely.

>>13788910

>how can you find NGE complex?

It's an mecha series that isn't at all about anything that you're seeing on screen. It seems confusing because nothing really matters superficially, nothing you're seeing aside form the character interaction really matters. People try to pick the story apart and make sense out of it all, missing the entire point of the series.

I found RahXephon to be all the confusing elements of Eva with zero of its actual meaning.

Haven't finished Argent Soma yet. It was interesting, and wasn't outright bad, but again, it suffered from the same "anime written by anime fans" problem.

Also I understand what you're saying, but that's just justifying WHY most mecha anime is badly written. It doesn't change the fact.

>As to recycling, I don't think it's inherently a bad thing either.

I agree, nothing is entirely new. But recycling needs to be actually good to be, well, good. If you're just copying without improving anything you're just distilling the art form into its dullest, most archetypal boring state.
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>>13787064
You already got an origin story in 079. All Origin is doing is padding it out with unnecessary crap.
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>>13788941
Is Argento Soma watchable? The look of the protagonist has always put me off.
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>>13788945
I dunno, is 0079, or SDF watchable?

Of course, it is.
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>>13788480

>I think it's safe to say that nothing in tbe Mecha genre has come close to touching NGE (the original, not the trash that is Rebuild) in terms of complexity ever since it was released.

Gasaraki's rice shortage has more complexity than NGE.
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>>13788953
He did say Takahashi was one of two competent directors.
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>>13788953

I was excluding all of Takahashi's work from that generalization, should have made that clear.
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>>13788480
>What is G-reco?
>>
>>13788966
What is shitposting and not following the chain?
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>>13788959

I was responding to the statement that nothing has been as complex as NGE since it came out. Both Tomino and Takahashi have released superior shows to it since then.Infinite Ryvius is another I can think of on the spot who was written by neither and is better than NGE in that regard.

I agree with the general jist of the statement though. Mecha anime could use more visionary ( or at least competent) writers.

I also do really like NGE, I'm not trying to hate on it here.
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>>13788945

Yeah, completely watchable, thought I haven't finished it yet.

Again, I'm not saying Mecha shows are unwatchable for being badly written, I'm just criticizing the writing.

I think good writing would definitely "save" Gundam, if we're talking about quality.

If we're talking commercially, then they should probably keep doing what they're doing, because that's what Mecha Otaku in japan eat up.
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>>13785541

Sadly too late. Gundam has written itself into a corner in that there is no actual progression or chronology that really matters. There is nowhere for Gundam to 'go', because what defines Gundam is that it stays as close to home as possible. There is no interesting new conflict to focus on instead, because the whole point of Gundam is that every show is the One Year War with different glasses on.

Most franchises extend their lifespan by going to now places, fighting new enemies, and trying something new. But the hardcore otaku that buy models HATE IT when Gundam tries something new, and after 35 years any attempt to actually fix Gundam is going to be seen as an attack on Gundam itself.

The only thing that has any hope of saving Gundam is to ironically go back to the beginning and don't be such a fuckup this time. Reboot the Gundam franchise with a new anime that covers Amuro and the Gundam and the One Year War. Give everyone the modern retelling with better animation of that story that they really want, and get it out of your systems.

Then? Make a sequel to that show that advances the timeline. Something that MASSIVELY derails the established UC cycle, such as Mars being heavily colonized and the conflict being between warring factions of different waves of colonists fighting for ambiguosly defined ownership of martian territory as the new frontier. Or something like that. There are no masked characters, even!

And then you never AU, you never go back to "old UC". You just keep it to one timeline and advance everything by decades and never Zeon ever again, or do anything that too closely mirrors the Earth vs Colonies dynamic.

Thats the only way to break the cycle of stagnation that makes Gundam such tripe.
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>>13789078
And then you get overhyped tripe like Star Wars: the Force Awakens.
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>>13785769
>start making more things that barely sell, do not draw fans in and are unpopular
Actually Late UC merch sold pretty well as it came out, in recent years. The MG F91 and V Gundam sold particularly well. It might be a good time to revisit it.

The issue isn't "Make what sells" the issue is "make something that's good enough to sell." If OYW were the only things that sold, they wouldn't bother with AUs. The only reason they make AUs in the first place is because it makes it easier on the writing staff, since they don't have to keep up with any lore and instead can just make whatever they want, not to mention rehash old ideas consequence-free.
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>>13787154
>>13787147
>modern day
literal garbage
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>>13789078
>Most franchises extend their lifespan by going to now places, fighting new enemies, and trying something new. But the hardcore otaku that buy models HATE IT when Gundam tries something new
Sunrise tries new shit just about every other AU and otakus eat that shit up, don't lie to me faggot.

Just because they have a masked man and some happens in space doesn't mean it's "LOL SAME SHIT."

Your idea is retarded as all fuck. They can go anywhere they fucking want with Late UC, they just never fucking bother because AUs are easier to write.
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>>13785541
By writing an actual decent war drama
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>>13788158
0080 is literally just a Tomino series story arc without the main characters.

>the Gundam comes to a place
>a thing happens
>an innocent local gets involved
>it ends terribly for them

>>13788480
It's funny because all of Muv-Luv Alternative's chapters are named after old science fiction books that influenced it and you're just making shit up.

>>13789529
The reason they make AUs is because it's really fucking hard to pull in new fans with a show that is a sequel to 250 existing episodes of anime. It's sure as fuck not easier.
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>>13791570

And yet ML is probably more memorable in writing than most of what Gundam has ever offered.

There's a thing to 'save' Gundam, get some decent fucking writers on it.
>>
Maybe Banrise would actually bother changing the Gundam recipe if people could stop vehemently fellating the original series for one second.
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>>13789545

You're right, they can go anywhere they want.

Which is why they are going back to the One Year War again, BUT THIS TIME THERE IS JAZZ MUSIC.
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>>13791570
>shit someone showed I was wrong, better throw as many middle school kid insults in one post as I can to try to avoid it
I am 100% sure you have never read Muv-Luv anyways, let alone in a language where the writing isn't Ixwrecked into the ground.
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>>13785541
>>13785541
nigga why are you so mad?
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>>13786966
underrated post
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>>13787147
>>13787154
This is horseshit kill yourself
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Just undo newtypes and anything after 0079 with the exception of the origin manga.
>>
Cancel Gundam as a series and replace it with my favorite semi-obscure 70s or 80s mecha anime, duh.
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>>13785541
Do a prequel to Turn-A. We find out that every Gundam story happens at the same time across different Solar Systems. The inhabitants of the "Gundam Galaxy" end up fighting in some huge war with Turn-A (full god mode) and several fan favorites fighting each other on space and in other planets.
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>>13792191

Haha, no. MuvLuv is fucking trash.
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>>13785541
We can't.
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>>13785547
Keep the merch and put a full stop on animu production for 1 year.
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>>13788227

08th is great when it isn't focusing on the star-crossed lovers bullshit. It makes the last third or so of the series pretty hard to watch.

Fantastic scenes like Ez8 vs. Gouf Custom -almost- make up for it.
>>
>>13786355
Wait, are we trying to fix Gundam for our tastes or for the franchise's sake as a business?
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>>13785847
>the biggest problem of the franchise
The fans?
>>
>>13788843
I do hope that's sarcastic.
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>>13795904

The former, of course. If it's not what I like or if it's popular, it's shit, after all.
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>>13796011
Pfft.

If what I like isn't popular, then it's everyone else who's shit.
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>>13796048

Now you understand the mentality of your average 4chan user!
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>>13785547

Wasn't there a gundam crash in the 90s?
Also calling gundam zeta shit is like calling ideon shit. depressed tomino was a genus at writing characters interaction in a serious stressful war. zeta was the best gundam by far, it felt like a real war and serious. zeta is still considered the star wars of japan, even though its nothing alike. Thats how popular it was. even its ost is godly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr_SQtRmw7Q

Everything after zeta was a joke, gundam could not and will never feel like zeta.
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>>13796315
>zeta is still considered the star wars of japan

And yet barring a lone direct sequel, a handful of forgettable and dead manga and LN ventures, and a trilogy of compilation films of questionable quality, Zeta has scarcely been revisited outright.

Meanwhile the OYW gets trodden into the dirt.
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>>13796422
What its the most popular gundam series besides 0079 with the most popular characters. Its the only series that feels like 0079. zz ruined gundam, so did wing. V gundam is the only thing close but its not popular.
>>
>>13796422
Also yes I guess I agree it should be re visted A LOT more, we never find out what happened to kamile ,I really hope ZZ becomes not canon one day or maybe it is? Yes the movies suck but thats because the series was long and every moment counted story wise unlike 0079. besides kamile's fake sister.
>>
>>13787147
>>13787154
I have read this before.
It is still garbage.
>>
>>13796431

>What its the most popular gundam series besides 0079

Yeah, it had good ratings. It doesn't change the fact that barely anything's been done with it since it aired. You don't have things focusing on Gryps, or a glut of sidestories about Titan remnants and splinter groups making a resurgence with the exception of Sentinel. All UC ever gets is more OYW variations, because that's what's popular, and that's what was popular.

>every moment counted story wise unlike 0079

Also complete and utter poppycock. There were so many fights of the week that could be removed with no consequence, and I think the movies did a lot of that.
>>
>>13796487
I think zeta has never been revisted because its like going back to movies 4-6 of star wars. people are too afraid to change one of the best gundam series. Tomino is also a hack like lucas. fans would also rage if anyone fucked it up.
>>
Doozy Bots
>>
>>13792150

Ironic you would pick thunderbolt, have you read it or are you just a memester who has seen one 15 minute episode?
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>>13796315
Zeta is extremely unrealistic, in fact it's significantly less realistic than 0079
Thread replies: 127
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