Was Zechs actually a better character than Char?

Yes.

No.

>>13738753
He had the better seiyuu at least.

>>13738814
Now many seiyuu can beat Koyasu though

fucking no
all three different chars are much better than this autistic retard

speaking of that, Treize did nothing wrong

>>13738753
Yes, Since he succeeded in all his goals where Char failed. Killed the general who killed his dad and destroyed his kingdom instead of getting him through his relatives. Had his sister become true heir to the family legacy. Got his fight to finish with Heero on his terms without selling out like Graham did. Brought peace and equality with his and Trieze's Zero Requiem before there was even a Code Geass. Saw the Mariemaia army coming and help put them down. And has a hot, badass girlfriend who is alive and not a newtype ghost in a love triangle with his archival.

Zechs/Millardo/Wind did in 50 episodes what took Casval 20 years.

Zechs is the most efficient Char

>>13738753
He goes through the same setup but his character lacks any sort of underlying depth or reason, hell the only reason he decides to go full Char is because a computer tells him to.

>>13738902
>he succeeded
>Brought peace and equality with his and Trieze's Zero Requiem before there was even a Code Geass.
Oh look! Its this retard again.

>>13738902
>Yes, Since he succeeded in all his goals where Char failed

Bella is a better character than Tony Soprano, confirmed.

>>13739043
Those aren't even the same type of character, retard. You're comparing apples to oranges.

>>13739030
>lacks any sort of underlying depth or reason
> Is full of self-loathing and sees himself as weak and unworthy of his family name.
>Dissatisfaction with the direction OZ is going in once they take over the world.
>Admires the Gundam pilots for fighting on when the odds are against them and wants to be like them.
>Becomes like them by going rouge only to not make much of a difference against Romefeller's mobile doll horde and sees his Sister surrender over their kingdom again and not only that but her joining them as their figurehead.

Zechs had better reasons for his counterattack then Char did.

>>13739117
Nothing you posted actually countered his point nor proved that he had any underlying depth and no he didn't have a reason for his actions.

>>13739117
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about
>Admires the Gundam pilots for fighting on when the odds are against them and wants to be like them.
>Becomes like them by going rouge only to not make much of a difference against Romefeller's mobile doll horde and sees his Sister surrender over their kingdom again and not only that but her joining them as their figurehead.

Like what?

No, Char is definitely better.

>>13738753
Fuck no. He's one of the worst Char clones on the franchise.

>>13738902
And way to miss the fucking point of Char's character. I guess by your stupid ass logic Kira is a better Amuro because he succeeded.

>>13739230
>on
*in

>>13739230
Zechs is easily the best Char clone in the franchise.

Zechs' story is basically Char's story except on high speed fast forward.

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>>13739241
>Instead of being a memorable character in his own right he's a literal copy with none of the good aspects
>Best anything

>>13739257
>Zechs doesn't betray his allies
>Zechs mourns his allies
>Zechs is honorable in combat
>Zechs gets his revenge early on
>Zechs tries to help his sister become the person he feels she is capable of becoming

People who say Zechs and Char are the same person haven't watched Gundam Wing

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>>13738902


But the entire point of Char is that he's a petty asshole who's kind of a failure in the long-run.

>>13739241
this desu

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>Wanting unoriginal masketta men

>>13739274
Indeed, he's a petty, short-sighted, sociopathic failure of a man who spent his whole life running from his shortcomings. And that's what makes him interesting.

>>13739272
This is why I like him

>>13739299

I wouldn't go so far as to call him an actual sociopath, but he's definitely got a pronounced empathy deficit and a damaged moral compass.

I thought Zechs was better than most Char clones, but he's not as good of a character as the original.

>>13738753
Fun fact: Zechs was just a Char clone until they took Katsuyuki off of Gundam Wing and tossed it to Sunrise's in-house team of amateur writers, who then couldn't decide what to do with him.

Maybe up until the very last segment, and then daring to show his face again in EW.

>Char clone with pretty much the same intent and methods as Char
>Except he's not actually a spacenoid.
See, if kinda falls apart there.

>>13739108
His point is that a character's worth is not decided by their success or a list of feats.

>>13739319
>I wouldn't go so far as to call him an actual sociopath

Even if you discount Origin, where Yas takes great pains to show that Char is a sociopath who, when he drops his facade and allows his actual nature to come though, terrifies everyone around him, the mainline entries in the series show it too.

You have 0079, where he arranges the murder of his best friend without so much as an ounce of remorse; you have Zeta, where Reccoa takes a bullet for him and he doesn't even bother to visit her in the hospital; and you have CCA, where Char is willing to sacrifice the lives of all of his soldiers and make the Earth uninhabitable because he is having a mid-life crisis and wants to have a final showdown with Amuro.

It's not to say that he is entirely heartless though--he genuinely cared about Lalah and very obviously lost his temper completely when he saw what Haman was doing to Mineva in Zeta. He's a sociopathic asshole with some good points, rather than just a plain sociopathic asshole.

>>13738753
Yes.

Char was just a walking pile of misery who got bitter and jaded over time and ultimately failed in life. Zechs never lost sight of his goals and ended up completing them all.

>>13739339
>Citation Needed

>>13739246
>>13739354
That's the problem with Zechs really. At first he just paralled Char. He had a lot of similarities to him, both superficial and otherwise. But he wasn't literally char 1/1.
Then at the end, they suddenly decided he should be Char 1/1, dropping Libra on his home, despite it hijacking his character and denying closure to his previous internal struggles.

>>13739366
>He's a sociopathic asshole with some good points, rather than just a plain sociopathic asshole.

Sounds about right.

>>13739373
Seriously though, back to
>>13739364
Why does completing his goals make him a superior character? Or rather, why does Char's downwards spiral of desperation make him an inferior one?

>>13739272
>Zechs doesn't betray his allies
He betrayed OZ
>Zechs mourns his allies
So did Char
>Zechs gets his revenge early on
So did Char
>Zechs tries to help his sister become the person he feels she is capable of becoming
This is fanfiction

>>13739411
>Why does completing his goals make him a superior character?
Because he's a stupid Wingfag who doesn't have any argument.

>>13739328
>I thought Zechs was better than most Char clones
Found the retard

>>13739415
>He betrayed OZ

OZ betrayed him first

>So did Char

Lalah was his love interest. Zechs cared about all his soldiers

>So did Char

Char spends the whole show trying to get revenge

>This is fanfiction

This is what literally happens during the Sanc Kingdom arc

>>13739431
>Char spends the whole show trying to get revenge
This is a bit silly.
People are obviously comparing Char's involvement throughout the fiction he appears in, to Zech's involvement in his respective series.
Char assures the death of the Zabis in MGS alone. Proportionally, early on in his story.

>>13739431
>OZ betrayed him first
Cool bullshit bro
>Lalah was his love interest.
Wasn't even talkin about Lalah.Go actually watch 0079 sometime.
>Char spends the whole show trying to get revenge
He spends Zeta and CCA getting revenge?
>This is what literally happens during the Sanc Kingdom arc
So your fanfiction. Got it.

Zechs is the ONLY AU Char clone as far as I'm concerned. Most other masked men outside of UC had very few similarities to Char. Bushido, Rau, Neo and Zeheart have only surface level similarities to Char. And if you want to count Harry and Schwarz, they have even less in common with him.

That said, I think he relies on Char's story a bit too much to really stand on his own two legs.

>>13739041
>>13739043
>>13739195
>>13739206
>>13739230
>>13739257
>>13739415
>>13739421
>>13739426
>>13739468
Same anti-Wing fag

>>13739468
>Cool bullshit bro
OZ attacked him retard and then tried to kill him
>Wasn't even talkin about Lalah.Go actually watch 0079 sometime.
Already watched it. Stop being crypt and say what you have to say
>He spends Zeta and CCA getting revenge?
So you're comparing 2 shows and a movie to 1 show? I'm talking MSG. Which is why I said SHOW as in singular. Comparing what 1 guy did over 2 series and a movie to 1 series is retarded
>So your fanfiction. Got it.
Zechs totally wasn't stopping OZ from attacking Sanc and Zechs totally wasn't pushing for Relena to lead Sanc

>>13739469
Eh, I'll give you the others except for Rau. Rau is basically the manipulatuve, sociopathic asshole part of Char taken up to 11.

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Zechs has Tallgeese. Tallgeese > Zakus, Z'Goks, Gelgoogs, Zeong, Hyaku Shiki, and Sazabi.

>>13739523
I thought rau was a psychopath, not a sociopath

>>13738753
Char
> codename red comet
Zechs
> codename wind
Do I need say anymore?

>>13739117
This nigga gets it.

>>13738753
Yes and no. If you compare Zechs to Char then Zechs is superior. However, if you compare Zechs to Char + Casaval (origin) + Vagina then Zechs loses. It's not really fair though to compare a character who is only in a single series to a character that is in multiple series and a movie to boot.

>>13739571
Good point! Char did better with what where basically mainline suits painted red, Zechs got some stupid op special snowflake suit.

>>13739900
>Char did better
Char is a shitty pilot and lost nearly every battle he was in.

>>13739043
>Tony Soprano
But Tony didn't fail!

>>13739697
>Ignoring Zechs was actually 'lightning Count'

>>13739900
>outdated Tallgeese which is still admittingly badass is basically just 2FAST2FURIOUS and hits really hard
>and it kills weaker men who can't master it
>and a Leo
Nigga you dumb

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>>13739497
>Anti-Wing fag

How long have you been here? /m/ hates Wing.

>>13739903
This. Char never won a fight without having a significant leg up on his opposition, either due to his opponent(s) being extremely inexperienced or due to Char having a massively superior mobile suit.

People who claim he's a good pilot are missing the point of his character just as hard as the people who were saying "Zechs is a better character because he was more successful."

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>>13738753

No, but Treize is infinitely better than both.

Treize was mother fucking splendid.

>>13739899
>If you compare Zechs to Char then Zechs is superior.
Found the retard

>>13739949
I can see that. In that sense its sort of a tire for nicknames.they both have one lane and cool nickname

>>13740303
Tie*
Lame*
Damn auto correct

>>13740268
>missing the point of his character just as hard as the people who were saying "Zechs is a better character because he was more successful."
This. It is something people do a lot with characters where they have to count the number of times they did something and whoever gets more is a better character. People do it with kills a lot and try to say this makes someone a good character/better pilot. People only seem to be able to judge characters by their successes and numbers of doing things

The meaning of events and how they are handled are worth much more than the number of times they happened.

>>13738982
This.

Also he doesn't higher women to hide the fact that he's a pedo.

He was pretty much Char's entire adult life condensed into the span of two years.

>>13738753
He's basically a carbon copy of Char except that his character development goes through CCA before Zeta. Answer is no.

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I found Zechs more memorable. All of his scenes really had weight.

>>13738902
>And has a hot, badass girlfriend who is alive and not a newtype ghost in a love triangle with his archrival.
Also this.

>>13740820
So basically you are suggesting that every Char clone that doesn't follow through every footstep that Char makes is garbage? But wouldn't that defeat the purpose of making a clone in the first place? Why not just put Char in every gundam instead?

That's me shooting down your argument.

>>13740926
>reading comprehension

>>13740288
Treize was the definition of 2deep4u.

>>13738753
Yes.

https://youtu.be/_gRczA9IK7o

>>13740926
You aren't making any sense.

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>>13738814
I like Koyasu but you simply have fucking bad taste right there.

Koyasu Dio sucks though

>>13741304
Koyasu has range and at least tries to make his characters sound different. Ikeda only has his Char voice which he uses for every character his ever played.

>>13738753
I like Zechs to a degree

His big letdown for me is his turnaround in the final 1/3rd of the show where it feels like the writers did not know how to make Zechs into CCA-Era Char and kinda fudged it and hoped no one would notice.

Zechs was the best thing about Wing, so it may seem that way, but everything else about the show was in fact shit, so no.

Dub Zechs was best Zechs

>Battle seeds ready to sprout into new battles
>No machine gun for him!
>He's intense! Perhaps...
>FOOOOOOOOOLS

>>13741473
Honestly as much as I like Koyasu, Drummond was always the better Zechs to me. Buried in the mediocrity of Wing's dub was a great script and a few very talented performances.

>>13741359
>Koyasu has range and at least tries to make his characters sound different

His range is pretty tiny though
>Manly (calm)
>Manly (demanding)
>faceless pedestrian
>Gay (the "joke" voice)

also when he raise his voice in any of these roles the Koyasu vibe will come rolling back in again.

>>13741541
>Buried in the mediocrity of Wing's dub was a great script
>Wing
>great script

>>13739294
>Amuro
>a char

>>13741541
JAPANESE ZECHS IS TRUE ZECHS

>>13741550
The actual acting part is good.

>>13741473
tldnw

>>13741541
Dub Zechs is best Zechs, this is a fact.
>my destiny is smeared with blood and I won't be talked out of this transgression

He delivered so many fantastic lines with that perfect raspy voice.

>>13741550
>His range is pretty tiny though
Zechs, Gym, Mu and that Venus Globe guy from G-Reco don't sound alike.

>>13741579
Except Zechs isn't suppose to be evil, so that raspy voice doesn't fit him one bit. So while I was okay with Drummond as Vegeta, im not with Zechs.

>>13741603
>hurr durr raspy voice means evil

It was just a manly and distinct voice. It delivered the impression of a tried warrior to me. Deep, tired, but strong.

>>13741695
Maybe for you. Not the impression I get at all.

>>13741695
Koyasu still fits him better.

>>13741550
>His range is pretty tiny though
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EibGG8jhVJc

Zechs was completely insane like most of the Wing characters.

>>13741743
>completely insane like most of the Wing characters.

Because the casts of UC and 00 were the very model of mental health right?

>>13741743
What did he do that was so crazy?
>killing a few billion people now to ensure peace for all future people
>crazy

It's simple math dude.

>>13741872
>thinking it would ensure peace for all future people
That

>>13741872
basically what >>13741935 said

W's general theme of "muh pacifism" is already pretty retarded no thanks to the character's childish ideals, the last thing they need is a plot point ripped straight from CCA

>>13741872
>>13741935
>>13741942
>the peace that the entire Wing anime worked is broken after just 1 year

Nothing crazy about it all.

>>13741960
Even with the way EW ends, this is a big part of why, for as much as /m/ praises him, I find Treize's end game utterly retarded.

"We'll just make a war so bad no one will ever want to fight again. Problem solved!"

For a man who claims to love battles, he apparently skipped the part where everyone swore after World War I that that was TOTALLY gonna be the end of it and humanity had had its fill.

Then again, if Durandal has taught me anything, people have a harder time detecting a childish worldview if it's being expressed by a smooth looking man with a nice voice.

>>13741737
I think still think his characters sounds pretty much the same because they all share the same Koyasu vibe, Koyasu is a top-notch actor but his voice is iconic as hell.

The only character that doesn't sound like his usual voice at first glance is that minor role he has in G gundam.

This is true range
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG3EqJizfkQ&ab_channel=SatoruNakata

>>13741942
And "muh newtype evolution" isn't stupid or childish?

>>13741971
We've never had a war in real life that threated to wipe-out all life in the planet, Wing did. Until we do, we can say that it dumb since context matters.

>>13741981
>he said bad things about W
>FUCKING UCFAGS, GET HIM

whoa hey now, even in my favorite show V I still think its retarded to end everything by newtype magic, but at least everything up before the point the characters and the general flow of the story was realistic.

Almost everything and everyone in W is fucking retarded.

>everything relena does in the show

>>13742007
Humanity doesn't work that way.

As long as there are humanity around there's going to be that guy who care literally about nothing but raising hell for whatever abstract reason they can think of. A planet-devastating strike may only hamper this for like a hundred years at most.

and also >>13741960

>>13742008
>Thinks V Gundam is good.
Pot calling the kettle black.

>>13741960
>>the peace that the entire Wing anime worked is broken after just 1 year
It ended with only one person killed and then mobile suits were never seen again.

>>13741974
For those that have watched slayers, ive always found it amusing midorikawa and koyasu have another rival/enemy relationship in it like wing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbV_qz5TcVs

>>13742018
Care to explain why?

>>13742037
I didn't watch slayers back when it airs on my local television because I was too young, but fucking hell you are right.

>>13741541
>>13741579
why are nostalgiafags so fucking annoying
>i like black dick more than masturbating because i was raped as a child

>>13742013
Doesn't matter if it broke after one year. That was the last time MS were ever used and it ended with 1 death and citizens rising up against people who wanted war.

>>13742037
That always did amuse me. How many rivalries do they have, anyway?

>>13742120
>That was the last time MS were ever used

And then Frozen Teardrop happened

>>13742131
Not canon until animated.

>>13742035
>>13742120
>only one person dead

Nah. Just one named person. Prior to the rather improbable 'completely non-fatal takedowns' scene, we still see pilots getting offed during Heero and Duo's botched infiltration.

To say nothing for the luckless Serpent pilots at ground zero when Heero blasted the bunker. I'm sorry, no amount of hand-waving is getting around the fact those guys are dead.

>>13742154
Those Leo could have been MD but the Serpents were piloted by people...damn Heero is a dick.

>>13741971

/m/ likes Treize because he's the genius, charismatic and aristocratic leader we all secretly wish to follow.

>>13742194

He is a pussy compared to borderline psychopath early Wing Yuu.

>>13742219

*Early Wing Heero

I brainfarted.

>>13741550
Did you not watch Tekkaman Blade?

>>13742120
>EW ended and never again will any conflict arise ever again!

that's not how humanity works.

>>13742409
That's how they work in that setting and it never said there was never anymore war. Just no more MS.

>>13742154
>>13742194
To be fair to Heero, he got to that battle late and probably didn't get the 'We're not killing anyone this time!' memo.

I feel like Char bought into his own hype too much

>>13742623
I feel like you're a fucking idiot

>>13742447
Honestly, I'm not faulting him. Had his hands full, he was in a damaged MS, and that's not really a precision tool even on a good day. Merely pointing out the battle had a bigger body count than just Dekim.

>>13742631
Oh i'm sorry did i insult your Husbando or some thing

jesus chill the fuck out sperglord

By the time Counter attack came around i feel like Char had completely lost touch with every thing.

>>13742219
>>13742248
Looking back I'm really disappointed we got such a different Heero after the 1st episode. That psychotic laugh and sudden cut to seriousness in his first scene was great.

>>13739571
its not red so its shit

>>13740259
Find the newfag.