What it does do that's unusual is it puts a heavy emphasis on technobabble and the efforts of the support crew to provide a solution to the problem of the week that's based in logical thinking and teamwork. It is not the only super robot show to do this, but it's a pretty good example of how it should be done.
Y'know, except FINAL, where fuck thinking we have to yell more about courage to blow ourselves up harder.
>>13728085 VOTOMS is pretty hard sci-fi. It's got more in common with Arthur C Clarke than Gundan. Combat in VOTOMS is really fast-paced, and one wrong move is death. The mecha are pretty realistic in that we've basically almost reproduced the Scopedog 1:1.
>>13728065 >the efforts of the support crew to provide a solution to the problem of the week that's based in logical thinking and teamwork
If GGG did anything like this, it'd be fine.
But it didn't. Most of the solutions involve using the new toy introduced at the beginning of the episode to beat the Zonder of the Week because the new toy just so happens to conveniently counter the Zonder's gimmick.
>>13728194 >most You mean ten out of fifty, right? I'll even list them because they're so few:
>Dividing Driver gets used to stop collateral damage from I think EI-05 onwards and then gets used for a billion other things >HyoRyu and EnRyu help stop EI-06 >ChoRyuJin's Eraser Head stops Gai from killing himself against EI-07 and then gets used for a billion other things >Volfogg helps beat EI-12 >Dimension Pliers get used to escape EI-17's fruit roll-up space >Goldion Hammer breaks EI-18's sun barrier thing and then gets used for a billion other things >Goldymarg's the only one who can move against EI-20 >Mic beats EI-23/24 with rock and roll
And then that's it except for the Gatling Driver and GeikRyuJin's intros that I'm not going to waste even more time looking up. That's eight out of the first twenty-four episodes are pushing the new toy of the week, which is a pretty fucking low ratio if you've watched any Kamen Rider in the last seven years.
>>13728254 GGG follows something of a formula where the new toy is the solution to its introduction episode, and then features prominently in the next episode or two until it's time for another toy to be introduced. But they still show up regularly. The sheer number of new gadgets and their constant introduction separates GGG from a lot of other MotW shows where, unless it's a finisher, the gimmick is all but abandoned after its introduction and only dragged 'round again to remind kids that there's something to pester mom and dad about.
>>13728392 The exception is the Pliers, which are basically never used again after that one time because they're so specific. Dividing Driver, Eraser Head and Goldion Hammer get used for various tasks constantly, even outside Goldion Hammer's use as a finisher. The show's very consistent about remembering that they have a tool that can deal with problem X and actually using it instead of coming up with some one-off solution that never comes back.
>>13728406 Even then, a lot of that is partially because those gadgets were conceptually integrated into another facet of the show. The Eraser Head gets glued to ChoRyuJin's hip whenever ChoRyuJin is being useless. Dividing Driver may as well be a part of Heaven and Hell, and the Pencil Launchers (implying anybody remembers those or even gives a fuck) were given to HyoRyu and EnRyu to make them seem less useless.
>>13728361 Except they showed up earlier. They're the helicopter and motorcycle 3G used in the early parts of the show.
>>13728406 The Pliers do get used once or twice when they need to fuck with dimensions, like against that weird shark Zondar, but in the second half they're unused because the Gatling Driver sort of does most of their job for them - or, hell, the single use of the Double Head Driver. And even then they're not forgotten about because they just get remodeled into something more useful.
>>13728392 >The sheer number of new gadgets and their constant introduction separates GGG from a lot of other MotW shows
OLD MotW shows. Modern ones... well, there's sure as hell a lot of people that use it now. Can't even really blame that on Gaogaigar though, it wasn't the only thing to pioneer that.
>>13728462 The Pencil Launchers were a beam weapon, a weird sludge thingy, and a net launcher. Might have had another use, I dunno, they're so minor it's easy to forget about them.
Eraser Head was the explosion killing device though. Although, didn't they use it on the rail cannon Zondar to slow down the projectile it shot? I know they used the Dividing Driver to do that, and that was cool.
Sadly, it has. Clawshrimpy insists, as in still does to this day, that GaoGaiGar is hard science fiction that deserves to be on the same level of recognition as Asimov and other classic sci-fi authors. This is partially because he is obsessed with the show to an unhealthy degree, but also partially because he has no idea what sci-fi actually does since he finds reading for any length of time hard and generally doesn't do it and so has never actually tried any real sci-fi.
Hell, for years he was insisting that GaoGaiGar was an example of a work with heavy post-human themes because Guy was a cyborg. It took literally years to get him to concede that he was misapplying the word since he had no actual idea what it meant having never looked it up and only using what he thought it meant after seeing it around occasionally.
Which were the little robot tools that went around building stuff? I vaguely recall them being based off like chisels and hammers or something and thinking they were cool as fuck when they were introduced, but only seeing them once or twice. Man, I really need to re-watch GGG now that the blurays are out. Haven't seen it in years.
>>13728951 The Dimension Pliers were made out of three little widget robots. Since they almost never used the Pliers, they later built about a hundred of them repurposed as the Carpenters, which are for dealing with collateral damage by running around and fixing everything.
>>13729003 >>13729003 Super vs Real can't be described in terms that /m/ will understand. Either you get it or you don't. Anyone who tries to quantify them or come up with a laundry list of what qualities makes a show / mech one or the other is wasting their time and completely missing the point.
Hard sci-fi is easily explained: it goes out of its way to describe, in SELF-CONSISTENT and scientific terms, the functionality of its technology.
Way too many people make the mistake of confusing this with being "scientifically accurate". That is not the case. There is more hard sci-fi than not which utilizes technologies and physics that are completely at odds with what we know to be true now. You can absolutely have FTL and other physics-defying shit in your hard sci-fi. The key difference between hard and any other sci-fi featuring these is that there will be pages of technical specifications of this stuff, universe background on how it came to be, concrete rules as to its functioning, and so on. It's not to be confused with technobabble like you see in Star Trek, because slapping some particle names into the conversation is a handwave, not a technical write-up.
There is a requirement of dry, nerdy world building in hard sci-fi. Just saying "someone invented FTL communication" or "yeah there's this thing called an ansible and it uses quantum tunneling" is not enough.
VOTOMs does not go into the specifics of its technologies in-show, and even artbooks and the RPG barely touch on things like polymer ringer solution or jijirium. Not hard sci-fi. UC Gundam is harder (but not hard) for its source material descriptions of Minovsky particles, but they are not consistently or realistically applied in the shows ("realistic" being relative to the universe).
>>13729059 >There is more hard sci-fi than not which utilizes technologies and physics that are completely at odds with what we know to be true now. To clarify, the aberrant physics in hard sci-fi that allow for this stuff is TRUE IN THAT UNIVERSE and described in a technical and scientific way that you could conceivably believe that perhaps we, in the real world, might have it wrong and there is more to physics than we understand.
There's hard sci-fi featuring consumer-grade spaceships that can fly through stars no problem. You can buy one on a middle class salary and drive your transparent space van straight through and not even worry. Hard sci-fi very much does not mean low tech or realworld-realistic.
The problem with Final was that it missed the point of GGG entirely in order to seem cool and mature. so they have death, and bee rape and fan service and violence and forced MANLY TEARS heroic sacrifice that makes no fucking sense.
>>13729106 They could pull a "heroic sacrifice, final mission" kinda thing just fine with GGG, but FINAL ultimately fucking did it really poorly with the awful pacing and the criminal lack of decent characters with any sentimental worth. Am I really supposed to care for Papillon's death or Entouji's loss even though both have the depth of a puddle after a light misting and even less personality? Same with the Super-AI sacrifice montage in the last episode. How am I supposed to give a rat's ass about these underdeveloped and frankly annoying and even downright unlikable characters?
>>13729294 >How am I supposed to give a rat's ass about these underdeveloped and frankly annoying and even downright unlikable characters? This is one of the big problem with GGG. They don't really bother developing or expanding any character except Mamoru. The MOTW doesn't focus on the characters at all, they're just problems of the week that occasionally show off a new toy without any character drama to get you invested in what's happening
>>13729610 not the anon you quoted but at least during my srw W run, he's been the most dodge-happy out of my team, aside the tekkamen; and that's not counting that he can open get during enemy attacks with 100% success, and while he's the most op motherfucker, he's the one with that can get into red numbers quickly.
this could be a moot point since he, along with GGG and mazinger were my picks for the favourite series system, so he can be a little more overpowered compared to other people's runs and choices
>>13729658 i'm still don't know why entouji cried when volfogg "died" while fighting penchinon, i asked this once and somebody answered me that his AI was based on his father, but wasn't volfogg's AI built from scratch like enryu or hyoryu, just that it was in secrecy?
>>13730485 >but wasn't volfogg's AI built from scratch like enryu or hyoryu, just that it was in secrecy? All of their AIs are based on real people. Enryu and Hyoryu were based on Taiga and Hyuuma IIRC.
>>13729658 Welcome to the Brave series in general. You should honestly be grateful that you got even that if that was what you were wanting out of GGG. Even with how dramatically the show treats almost every event, the show at its core is still just a 70s style, mostly plotless MoTW show intended to be simple enough for a five year old to understand.
One of the things I do enjoy about GGG, come to think of it, is that if you still have an appreciation of it, it is because you have the exact same viewpoint on it a five year old would because growing older doesn't help you comprehend anything any better. The show uses a lot of technobabble that you can't understand when you're young because you don't understand what the words mean. And then when you're older, you still don't understand it because it's nonsense. You either enjoy the show the same way a child does or you don't enjoy the show, that's the way Brave rolls. Except for Da Garn and J-Decker apparently, but I still have to finish those.
>>13729610 Switch to Getter 2 for grunts and Getter 1 for bosses dumbass. Getter 3 is for maps with water and literally nothing else.
>>13730485 Volfogg's AI was based on a programmer friend of his who was wounded by Bionet. They used the same personality transfer thing they did on Hyuma to create Goldymarg, but the process is hugely physically demanding and his friend didn't survive it. Swan's brother went through the same process to create Mic's AI and it left him hospitalized for a week, Hyuma just shrugs it off cause he's a badass.
They built him and trained the AI in secret because Volfogg's a ninja of course, but he does have the same basic thought patterns and personality of his human friend, so it was like losing his friend, again. Renee from FINAL had a similar partner unit who went through the exact same thing, except his robot form died for real. Almost none of thismaterial is actually explained in the TV series or FINAL and only gets elaborated on in audio dramas which are all canon with the show.
>>13729610 In a lot of games, it's more sane to build Getter to dodge than it is to tank, especially since the gruntbuster form is in every game not named Neo or MX always going to be either 1 (which is rarely particularly great at either) or 2 (which is a dodge machine in full).
>>13730485 Audio drama thing. Most of the male members of 3G were at one point a part of a superhero team - Taiga's shtick was golf, if you're curious - and eventually formed into the organization that is 3G. One of their members became an intelligence officer, and Entouji was his good friend. He died before the series started, but they did some sort of backup thing (IIRC it worked sort of like how Hyuuma put his mind into Goldimarg) and so Volfogg has his thought processes. I think. I don't 100% remember, but that's why they're friends.
>>13729610 None of the forms can tank hits particularly well, not even 3. Of course, all the forms but 2 also have mediocre mobility, so they can't do either too well until you get things like Mach Special and Open-Get going. The general strategy in SRW is as >>13730550 says, so I guess it would technically be hybrid type
>>13730514 Nah, they were the only AIs brought up and reared from infancy, and not copied outright froma human brain. Hyuma only lent his brain patterns to Goldymarg, Taiga never went through with the process. The TV show actually depicts their birth in their debut episode. The Chinese Ryu brothers are just carbon copies of them, along with Piggy they're the only free range AI robots.
>>13730514 enryu and hyoryu were built from scratch, the first episodes when they appeared showed that they were in a hangar for months developing and "growing" until they put them into their robot bodies. and hyuuma's brain patterns were used for goldymarg's AI.
>>13730510 i wonder if there's any info in those drama cd-. >>13730550 i knew it! that this shit was developed there, thanks for clarify, anon >Renee from FINAL had a similar partner unit who went through the exact same thing, except his robot form died for real is the red robot that appears in those flashbacks during the ending sequences right? seirously, i think FINAL needed more episodes (maybe six more), that "war" against bionet sound cool as fuck and could've worked as the first half, that way they could've developed renais and the new twins better, as well as showing gaofighgar more, and then they could end that first half/start the second one with repligaogaigar's fight
>>13729059 'Hard' sci-fi is a continuum though. At one end is 'everything gets explained', at the other is 'stuff happens don't worry about it'.
GGG has some light hard-scifi elements, such as having a set of technologies that can applied for certain effects (mirror coating, different uses of spatial distortions, the various anti-zonder effects the G stones have, etc), showing some detail of how the combinations actually work mechanically, showing how de-combination works, the stat screens shown around the commercial break... Its not exactly high on the hardness scale, but its easily the hardest Braves show, and it rates pretty well against most /m/ shows (which sadly isn't saying much since even most real robot shows barely explain anything).
>>13730580 >is the red robot that appears in those flashbacks during the ending sequences right? >seirously, i think FINAL needed more episodes (maybe six more), that "war" against bionet sound cool as fuck and could've worked as the first half, that way they could've developed renais and the new twins better, as well as showing gaofighgar more, and then they could end that first half/start the second one with repligaogaigar's fight FINAL was about closing the book on the trinity solar system or whatever it's called. Bionet was just a minor thing to introduce some new characters.
I wish they would make a sequel already. GGG ended on such a sour note.
>>13729059 >completely missing the point What is the point in your opinion anon? Is it just a feeling you get, or what? It's always fun to see peoples stance on this topic, if they even bother to have one in the first place, which is probably the smartest thing to do.
Baan Gaan is sad tale - it's the Brave they made after the Brave franchise as a whole was truly dead. (And before someone says "but they came up with it beforehand!", no, next Brave series was going to be Photogrizer, and as far as I know we never got anything from that.)
>>13730579 >Speaking of Renee, that reminds me - that manga where it elaborates on the creation of Gaofighgar was pretty damn cool. >(And I don't have it on my computer anymore, does anyone happen to have the download link to it?) this gaogaigar discussion made try to find the files on my pc and i found them, along with the url of the translator thank fuck his download links are still alive http://www.mediafire.com/download/mztm0jytjgy/GaoGaiGar+FINAL-+Evoluder+Guy+Acts+1-5+%5Beng%5D.zip
>>13730732 no problem, i think i got this one in the /rs/ board years ago (i miss it). so i think it's for the better start circulating again this, in case the translator's page also dies (6 years inactive can be scary imo), and hey more gaogaigar is good enough and probably people didn't know about it. i didn't have the chance to read it either, even though i have in my pc, time to do it while i have an itch for more ggg. btw when i unzipped it, one of the pages from act 3 got corrupted, maybe it's better to download the chapter alone if you want it
>>13728085 I'd put it on the "military drama" genre, but VOTOMS machines seem reasonable in comparison to your bog standard GM. They are more like tanks with variable weapons and all purpose frames that allow them to do sick high speed manuevers just as well as climbing hard surfaces than Mazingers but in a war setting.
>>13730518 Ey yo fampai you know that there were 70s style shows that focused on character interactions and growth during the motw and that GGG was actually NOT for five year old children, since it became apparent during the production that most of the viewers were adults instead of the declining Brave fanbase(kids)
>>13730652 now reading the manga, there's also the scene where mikoto is driving that flying vehicule with aloutte, it appears in the beggining of the episode 6-5 where the narrator talks about how strong gaofighgar is,just to cut back to recent times, where palparepa wrecks him hard and without mercy i still want to see more about their fights against bionet, the fact that they secured some zonder metals gives more room for more stuff, and iirc that flashback in FINAL also shows that the GGG base was falling into orbit and gaofighgar was holding it back, those niggers in bionet don't fuck around but oh well, what we have is good enough i guess
why does the manga have to end with a bittersweet ending though
>>13728082 I didn't think the Goldion Crusher was that much of an asspull; It made sense that earth would try to develop a weapon that could defeat enemies of the Z-Master scale after the original events of GGG.
>>13731652 Her backstory was incredibly out of place for a series like GGG. She felt like a Betterman character that got transplanted into GGG for some reason. I don't know why Sunrise tried to connect the series; they're far too different to work well together
>>13732233 Maybe Yonetani insisted on this, simply because of that tiny reference to Leo Shishio in Betterman, and having the same character designer. Consider yourself lucky that they didn't try to wedge in Brigadoon as well.
>>13732205 It's not the Crusher that was an asspull, it was the Sol Masters going full retard and cloning themselves a hundred times so they could fight a bunch of opponents who had all just performed suicide attacks and were already dead, which overloaded Pisa Sol's barrier so the Crusher would work. The story then tries to claim that this was GGG's plan all along when there's no way they could have possibly foreseen this.
>>13732323 Oh, and also the J-Ark running out of missiles thing. J-Ark has been shitting out missiles like they're candy for twenty episodes and seven OVA episodes now, and we've seen it has the ability to pull matter out of its ass to repair itself, but somehow it runs out right at the end. All because hey, the show ended on kind of a bittersweet note with J dead and Mamoru going off to see his home, so we've got to end with killing every single fucking character except the two kids.
>Suddenly, at the opposite end of the hall, his father appears wearing a full-body pickle suit with a crotch zipper and nothing underneath as this begins playing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3nkWmLCyhg
>Clawdad starts jauntily traipsing down the hallway and kicks open Clawshrimpy's door
>"IT'S PICKLE TIME SON" yells Clawdad with a huge grin on his face and madness in his eyes
>"NO DAD NO" yells Clawshrimpy
>"YES SON YES" screams Clawdad
>Clawdad licks his lips and says "Now hold your scrotum taut"
>Clawshrimpy resignedly drops his pants, bends over, and stretches out his ballsack as to make the topography of his testicles visible
>Clawdad unzips his pickle suit crotch zipper, and unfurls his massive curved boner
>Clawdad spends the next hour lazily dick-slapping Clawshrimpy's testicles back and forth, and then promptly leaves
>>13732323 I think it fit in with Palparepa's philosophy of a "perfect victory" aiming to crush 3G's spirit- They were afraid of the G-stone's power(and GGGG), and probably would rather 3G submit than continue to fight. But hey that's my take on it. >>13732336 I'll agree this was retarded though.
>>13730621 >>13730627 I don't know who invented that "Dendoh has elements of Project Z" story, but s/he obviously didn't bother to check airdates. Dendoh aired in 2000, around the time first eps of FINAL were released. (And Brave Saga was released even earlier IIRC, so Baan Gaan is out of question too.)
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