Who wins?

Considering it's the F-91, for once I'm tempted to say the Gundam.

>>13717177
I don't think you're looking at that picture right, Max has TWO Valkyries

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>>13717172
F91 is about when raw MS performance just starts to catch up with early Macross shit, and depending on minovsky particle density, Max might not have access to missiles. Add in the beam shield and Amuro's got a pretty good chance, here.

Amuro might come out on top in this case.

>>13717172
I guess amuro wins because he died young. Max on the other hand got married. Marrying a hot female alien may sound like the best-thing-ever but once you seal the deal it all goes downhill. It's especially so when you're put in a position that directly conflicts with your wife's job.

>>13717194
But how does he pilot both at once?

>>13717208
he jumps between them, duh

>>13717172

This time I am going to have to give it to the Gundam. I think the VF still has the maneuverability and speed advantage here, but it isn't enough of a gap this time to secure victory. On top of that the F91 has an abundance of heavy firepower and most important the beam shield, which is going to reliably suck up the conventional weapons Max is stuck with. I think Max is going to survive the fight and escape, but he won't be able to defeat the F91 with his current armament.

That said, this is YET AGAIN a case where the only thing making this even a fight is the fact that Amuro is getting a late generation highly advanced MS vs the absolute weakest VF to ever leave Earth. The F91 Gundam was made more than 50 years after the one year war. Advance the Macross timeline by 50 years as well and you get VF-19s which would consider the F91 to be a sub-par destroid.

That's cheating. At least give Amuro a mobile suit he had piloted at some point: RX-78, RGM-79 (The Origin), Rick Dias, Dijeh, Zeta Plus (Sentinel), RG-Z, RX-93.

Also, Amuro isn't *that* good of a pilot. He always had technology to his advantage. Not exactly an even playing field.

Could Amuro's newtype powers and the F91's speed cope with Itano Circus?

>>13717426
>which would consider the F91 to be a sub-par destroid.
>goes so fast it leaves afterimages with mass
>sub-par destroid
DECULTURE.
>muh matter eater warheads
"It doesn't matter how powerful they are if they can't hit me."

Still and all, you can't escape the fact that the upper ceiling of Gundam bullshit dwarfs the upper ceiling of Macross bullshit. You'll never get anywhere near Domon "I'LL BECOME TEN GUNDAMS TO COUNTER YOUR ATTACK" Kasshu's ability to completely disregard all laws of physics and common sense. Pretty sure Master Asia could punk Max without even getting into Master Gundam.

>>13717172
Why would you compare a super robot to a real robot like they're an even match?

>>13717545
Which one's the super?

>>13717556
They're both super bullshit

>>13717510
Master Asia would solo Max with just a scarf.

>>13717558

Basara would solo Master Asia with an acoustic. By the end Master Asia would be joining him in a jazzy duet lamenting the sad state of the Earth.

>>13717426
>Advance the Macross timeline by 50 years as well and you get VF-19s which would consider the F91 to be a sub-par destroid.

Not even. The VF-1 saw action primarily during Space War 1, which ended in 2010. 50 years from then puts it squarely in 2060. By that point, the VF-25 has been mass produced, people know the VF-27 exists, the YF-29 is also being tested by special forces, and presumably the YF-30 is in testing and development for the eventual VF-31 (which could have started mass production anytime between 2063 and 2067).

Literally any of the variable fighters of that time would be available to someone with as much clout as Max. Prototype or not.

And if you don't want assumptions based on tech development in-universe, you've got the fact that other than testing the YF-24, the last known fighter Max piloted was a VF-22...23 years prior to the current Macross and still 15 years before the 50 year cutoff point.

So yeah, you're not even neutering Max in this fight. You're cutting off his arms and legs and removing an eye and at the very least, he can still get away with almost no chance of being pursued.

>>13717510

The F91 sucks by the standards of late gen VFs. Even the yf-19 goes faster than the F91, its just that Macross knows how to make armor that doesn't crumble and leave a trail of dust behind when you go fast.

Gundam will never, ever beat Macross in terms of speed because it doesn't have the technology to keep the pilot alive if they do. Late gen VFs need inertial cancellers just to keep the standard use of the planes and ships from turning the pilots into goop from the extreme G forces. Gundam doesn't have that, so they will always be left in the dust.

By that level of technology, the beam shield is objectively inferior to the pinpoint barrier being carried by equivalent VFs, and while its firepower is decent it lacks the range to avoid being kited by VF weapons that are designed to fight across much longer distances.

Put the F91 vs a VF 20 and the 91 is toast. a VF 25 is overkill.

>>13717510
Really, F91 doesn't move all that fast. If moving that fast was all that's required for afterimages with mass, variable fighters would always leave afterimages in the gundam universe, especially the more advanced ones.

>>13717605
>VF-20
????

>>13717617
You didn't know? The Macross that debuted the VF-20 aired the same year as Gundam Beast. Maybe their power levels are more comparable?

>>13717436
>Amuro isn't *that* good
Are you fucking serious? He's psychic and knows when & where you're going to shoot. He dodges fuckin' beams left and right. He's even able to go against a famous veteran like Char (notorious for taking down BATTLESHIPS by himself)

>>13717760

Okay, lets be honest. In gundam, there is nothing easier to kill than a Battleship.

Any Zaku with a bazooka can take down a battleship.

Battleships are easier kills than balls, at least balls are small targets and can dodge.

I think a rewatching of the Max and Milia fight is all this discussion needs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NY4MHHlNOY

>>13717780
You only think that because the series always follows some top ace

>>13717792
And yet Macross aces do the same, what's your point?

>>13717807
My point is that battleships are only shit from the perspective we watch the series in, episode 1 Amuro would have gotten his shit kicked in if he fought a battleship

>>13717510
V2 piloted by Uso could probably take down most Valkyries. Shit is extremely fast and has firepower to back it up. Uso going full Newtype would probably make him a match for Max at his best, even in a modern Valkyrie. Bringing up Domon or Setsuna is stupid because they're just hackers.

>>13717436
>Amuro isn't *that* good of a pilot.
>Enemy retreat when he enter the field even though they have the upper hand
>Baddies uses his Learning Computer from OYW to BTFO 4 Gundams
>Manage to hold off 2 advance MS with a RE-GZ
>His machine can't keep up with him anymore
>Died to save mankind

After so many years after the event of Axis, people still remember him as the Legendary Pilot Amuro Ray.

>>13717760
Being psychic doesn't help you if you cent actually keep up with your opponent if you are entirely outclassed. I'm not saying a VF-1 can beat the F91 but being psychic doesn't make him all powerful from a clairvoyance standpoint.

>>13717857
If Amuro pulls some newtype bullshit and the F91 starts glowing then Max is fucked

>>13717863

F91 never pulls any newtype bullshit and doesn't have any kind of psycoframe to facilitate it. It does have a biocomputer, but that doesn't act like a newtype buff in any way that we know of.

>>13717863
Again, only if you gimp Max as far as possible by putting him in the first thing he ever piloted. At least Max has the speed advantage and can probably get away. If the quality of their machines were reversed, Amuro would be unable to even do that.

>>13717811
True. Good point.

>>13717875
But that doesn't really show which is a better pilot. Macross starts off with years of advanced technology and OYW shit is all emerging technology. It wouldn't be a test of piloting, just whose universe starts out stronger. Amuro, because of his absolute Newtype hax, is probably at least on par with Max's reflexes, but Max probably has the upper hand in tactics and battle sense.

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Isamu in his yf-19 instead of Max and the vf-1.

Isamu is overall a better pilot. The 19 has pin point barrier so it can shield from beam weapons.

>>13717907

> Isamu is better pilot than Max

I call bullshit. He's not even top 3 in Macross, which is almost certainly Max, Millia and then Basara.

>>13717857
>if you cent actually keep up with your opponent
knowing where to shoot before the enemy gets there is the opposite of not being able to catch up.
It's not like tracking and dodging a single VF is going to be harder than tracking and dodging half a dozen funnels at the same time. As good as Max is, Amuro has actual supernatural powers going on. This is Bruce Lee vs a Jedi. Even if Bruce is faster, precognitive dodge is not a reaction, it's a response that precedes the attack being dodged.

>>13717926
Precognition has limits though. A Jedi isn't any better at dodging missile shrapnel or even the blast any better than a normal person is. He simply can't avoid every missile, bullet, beam in a machine not good enough to do so. If your precognition only allows you to see 5 minutes into the future, you don't see the end of the chess game, only the opening moves. You don't know you've already lost until halfway into the game.

Having precognition in an unavoidable barrage only gives you the unfortunate experience of living through your own death before it actually happens.

>>13717962

Max already has borderline precognition due to a supremely high situational awareness and combat intelligence anyways. He was able to point a battleship gun at an enemy even before it had folded in to the battle because he knew using deduction or instinct where it would arrive. Or at least have the highest probability of arriving. It's functionally no different than precognition.

>>13717206

yet amuro is dead canon.

Sure the F91 is way more advanced than the Nu but isn't there the slight possibility that the lack of psycoframe to resonate with actually result in Amuro having less usage of his psychic abilities?

>>13717916
>basara

no.

>>13717926
>knowing where to shoot before the enemy gets there is the opposite of not being able to catch up.

I don't think you understand. the VF isn't 10% faster than a mobilesuit, or even 20%. Its closer to 200-300%, depending on what VF we are talking about. And it is designed to fight against similarly fast opponents without slowing down.

This isn't a skilled man with a shotgun vs a man with a rifle, where skill and tactics can win you the day. This is a man with a shotgun vs a man with a sniper rifle who is currently riding in a helicopter. Helicopter guy never has a reason to come close enough for shotgun to be able to even theoretically hit him, no matter how good a shot shotgun guy is, because helicopter guy just has that much of a range and mobility advantage. Unless helicopter guy does something incredibly stupid, there is literally nothing shotgun guy can do to win this fight.

>>13718017

Basara can fly circles around most people without even using the proper controls. He can fly circles around most people while playing an acoustic guitar and singing at the same time. If he actually used the regular controls he'd probably surpass Max, at least in agility. He's certainly good enough to out-fly Isamu.

>>13717975
Don't forget fighting in the dark by the flash of gunfire alone.

>>13718017
basara is pure autism, which in gundam translates directly into powerlevels

>>13717172
Which one fucked his waife?
Jenius wins

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Who wins?

>>13717907
In the Macross Frontier Wings of Goodbye novelization Isamu was left asking who were those Blue and Red Valkyries as even he was amazed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUvwWjG-HtM

>>13718090

Basara isn't autistic.

Autism implies he can't understand the feelings of others. He can, he just doesn't care because he's an asshole.

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>>13717172
Max is invincible

>>13717760
Which version of Amuro are we using in this fight? OYW Amuro or CCA Amuro? OYW Amuro is an inexperienced pilot and can't fully use his newtype powers yet. CCA version is where he's at the peak in terms of piloting skills and newtype powers.

>>13717172

Amuro wins by a fucking MILE

>F91 is bulletproof
>F91 can virtually teleport
>F91's pilot is fucking psychic

>>13717172
Does Amuro's newtype hax beat Max's Mary Sue overpowered-ness?

>>13718748
Definitely not Chirico. The guy's robo-waifus die all the time.

>>13717579
Goddamnit you make me want things that will never exist.

>>13718017
Basara's a really goddamn good pilot. Controlling a VF with a guitar while also using that guitar is hard enough, but there's plenty of stock footage of him dodging around attacks with that, and in Dynamite he gets into a Valk with NORMAL controls and plays a guitar in the cockpit while flying around, through, and in between a battle.

Guy's legitimately a great pilot. If he wanted you dead and your name isn't Max Jenius, he probably could do it.

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this glorious motherfucker