>>13717172 F91 is about when raw MS performance just starts to catch up with early Macross shit, and depending on minovsky particle density, Max might not have access to missiles. Add in the beam shield and Amuro's got a pretty good chance, here.
>>13717172 I guess amuro wins because he died young. Max on the other hand got married. Marrying a hot female alien may sound like the best-thing-ever but once you seal the deal it all goes downhill. It's especially so when you're put in a position that directly conflicts with your wife's job.
This time I am going to have to give it to the Gundam. I think the VF still has the maneuverability and speed advantage here, but it isn't enough of a gap this time to secure victory. On top of that the F91 has an abundance of heavy firepower and most important the beam shield, which is going to reliably suck up the conventional weapons Max is stuck with. I think Max is going to survive the fight and escape, but he won't be able to defeat the F91 with his current armament.
That said, this is YET AGAIN a case where the only thing making this even a fight is the fact that Amuro is getting a late generation highly advanced MS vs the absolute weakest VF to ever leave Earth. The F91 Gundam was made more than 50 years after the one year war. Advance the Macross timeline by 50 years as well and you get VF-19s which would consider the F91 to be a sub-par destroid.
>>13717426 >which would consider the F91 to be a sub-par destroid. >goes so fast it leaves afterimages with mass >sub-par destroid DECULTURE. >muh matter eater warheads "It doesn't matter how powerful they are if they can't hit me."
Still and all, you can't escape the fact that the upper ceiling of Gundam bullshit dwarfs the upper ceiling of Macross bullshit. You'll never get anywhere near Domon "I'LL BECOME TEN GUNDAMS TO COUNTER YOUR ATTACK" Kasshu's ability to completely disregard all laws of physics and common sense. Pretty sure Master Asia could punk Max without even getting into Master Gundam.
>>13717426 >Advance the Macross timeline by 50 years as well and you get VF-19s which would consider the F91 to be a sub-par destroid.
Not even. The VF-1 saw action primarily during Space War 1, which ended in 2010. 50 years from then puts it squarely in 2060. By that point, the VF-25 has been mass produced, people know the VF-27 exists, the YF-29 is also being tested by special forces, and presumably the YF-30 is in testing and development for the eventual VF-31 (which could have started mass production anytime between 2063 and 2067).
Literally any of the variable fighters of that time would be available to someone with as much clout as Max. Prototype or not.
And if you don't want assumptions based on tech development in-universe, you've got the fact that other than testing the YF-24, the last known fighter Max piloted was a VF-22...23 years prior to the current Macross and still 15 years before the 50 year cutoff point.
So yeah, you're not even neutering Max in this fight. You're cutting off his arms and legs and removing an eye and at the very least, he can still get away with almost no chance of being pursued.
The F91 sucks by the standards of late gen VFs. Even the yf-19 goes faster than the F91, its just that Macross knows how to make armor that doesn't crumble and leave a trail of dust behind when you go fast.
Gundam will never, ever beat Macross in terms of speed because it doesn't have the technology to keep the pilot alive if they do. Late gen VFs need inertial cancellers just to keep the standard use of the planes and ships from turning the pilots into goop from the extreme G forces. Gundam doesn't have that, so they will always be left in the dust.
By that level of technology, the beam shield is objectively inferior to the pinpoint barrier being carried by equivalent VFs, and while its firepower is decent it lacks the range to avoid being kited by VF weapons that are designed to fight across much longer distances.
Put the F91 vs a VF 20 and the 91 is toast. a VF 25 is overkill.
>>13717510 Really, F91 doesn't move all that fast. If moving that fast was all that's required for afterimages with mass, variable fighters would always leave afterimages in the gundam universe, especially the more advanced ones.
>>13717436 >Amuro isn't *that* good Are you fucking serious? He's psychic and knows when & where you're going to shoot. He dodges fuckin' beams left and right. He's even able to go against a famous veteran like Char (notorious for taking down BATTLESHIPS by himself)
>>13717510 V2 piloted by Uso could probably take down most Valkyries. Shit is extremely fast and has firepower to back it up. Uso going full Newtype would probably make him a match for Max at his best, even in a modern Valkyrie. Bringing up Domon or Setsuna is stupid because they're just hackers.
>>13717436 >Amuro isn't *that* good of a pilot. >Enemy retreat when he enter the field even though they have the upper hand >Baddies uses his Learning Computer from OYW to BTFO 4 Gundams >Manage to hold off 2 advance MS with a RE-GZ >His machine can't keep up with him anymore >Died to save mankind
After so many years after the event of Axis, people still remember him as the Legendary Pilot Amuro Ray.
>>13717760 Being psychic doesn't help you if you cent actually keep up with your opponent if you are entirely outclassed. I'm not saying a VF-1 can beat the F91 but being psychic doesn't make him all powerful from a clairvoyance standpoint.
>>13717863 Again, only if you gimp Max as far as possible by putting him in the first thing he ever piloted. At least Max has the speed advantage and can probably get away. If the quality of their machines were reversed, Amuro would be unable to even do that.
>>13717875 But that doesn't really show which is a better pilot. Macross starts off with years of advanced technology and OYW shit is all emerging technology. It wouldn't be a test of piloting, just whose universe starts out stronger. Amuro, because of his absolute Newtype hax, is probably at least on par with Max's reflexes, but Max probably has the upper hand in tactics and battle sense.
>>13717857 >if you cent actually keep up with your opponent knowing where to shoot before the enemy gets there is the opposite of not being able to catch up. It's not like tracking and dodging a single VF is going to be harder than tracking and dodging half a dozen funnels at the same time. As good as Max is, Amuro has actual supernatural powers going on. This is Bruce Lee vs a Jedi. Even if Bruce is faster, precognitive dodge is not a reaction, it's a response that precedes the attack being dodged.
>>13717926 Precognition has limits though. A Jedi isn't any better at dodging missile shrapnel or even the blast any better than a normal person is. He simply can't avoid every missile, bullet, beam in a machine not good enough to do so. If your precognition only allows you to see 5 minutes into the future, you don't see the end of the chess game, only the opening moves. You don't know you've already lost until halfway into the game.
Having precognition in an unavoidable barrage only gives you the unfortunate experience of living through your own death before it actually happens.
Max already has borderline precognition due to a supremely high situational awareness and combat intelligence anyways. He was able to point a battleship gun at an enemy even before it had folded in to the battle because he knew using deduction or instinct where it would arrive. Or at least have the highest probability of arriving. It's functionally no different than precognition.
>>13717926 >knowing where to shoot before the enemy gets there is the opposite of not being able to catch up.
I don't think you understand. the VF isn't 10% faster than a mobilesuit, or even 20%. Its closer to 200-300%, depending on what VF we are talking about. And it is designed to fight against similarly fast opponents without slowing down.
This isn't a skilled man with a shotgun vs a man with a rifle, where skill and tactics can win you the day. This is a man with a shotgun vs a man with a sniper rifle who is currently riding in a helicopter. Helicopter guy never has a reason to come close enough for shotgun to be able to even theoretically hit him, no matter how good a shot shotgun guy is, because helicopter guy just has that much of a range and mobility advantage. Unless helicopter guy does something incredibly stupid, there is literally nothing shotgun guy can do to win this fight.
Basara can fly circles around most people without even using the proper controls. He can fly circles around most people while playing an acoustic guitar and singing at the same time. If he actually used the regular controls he'd probably surpass Max, at least in agility. He's certainly good enough to out-fly Isamu.
>>13717760 Which version of Amuro are we using in this fight? OYW Amuro or CCA Amuro? OYW Amuro is an inexperienced pilot and can't fully use his newtype powers yet. CCA version is where he's at the peak in terms of piloting skills and newtype powers.
>>13717579 Goddamnit you make me want things that will never exist.
>>13718017 Basara's a really goddamn good pilot. Controlling a VF with a guitar while also using that guitar is hard enough, but there's plenty of stock footage of him dodging around attacks with that, and in Dynamite he gets into a Valk with NORMAL controls and plays a guitar in the cockpit while flying around, through, and in between a battle.
Guy's legitimately a great pilot. If he wanted you dead and your name isn't Max Jenius, he probably could do it.
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