Look, I'm not saying Zeon did nothing wrong-- but, if you think about it, wasn't the Federation worse? After all, they're the ones who backed Zeon into a corner with their oppression, anyone would want to rebel.
I mean, if you think about it, the Federation was probably worse. Plus, aren't their pilots racist? They just went around killing Zeon soldiers and civilians like nothing. And they polluted the Earth!
> If you think about it, wasn't the Federation worse?
> After all, they're the ones who backed Zeon into a corner with their oppression, anyone would want to rebel.
And yet most apparently didn't.
> Plus, aren't their pilots racist?
No more so than Zeon pilots who talk about Earthnoids. Which is to say not at all, because it's disparaging the enemy, not an entire race.
> They just went around killing Zeon soldiers
> Soldiers went around killing soldiers.
> During a war
> Somehow a bad thing
> and civilians like nothing
> And they polluted the Earth?
Zeon wanted to do exactly the same thing. Every version of them, including Char. He had different reasons, but he was still going to do it regardless.
In before our resident Zeon fanboy arrives.
Pretty sure the federation didn't gas people they claimed to be fighting for, then drop their houses on Earth, killing further BILLIONS through the direct results of the drops, attempted drops, and the week of fighting that followed.
Oh and I'm pretty sure dropping colonies on Earth counts as some pretty hardcore pollution.
It's the gassing and the Colony Drop, man. You can't get around that. That is so stupidly evil, it just kills off any argument.
It's like the WWII analogy - "America had no reason to join the war!" - Sorry, but after Pearl Harbor, they had every right. Like, any argument stumbles on that very first hurdle.
yeah that is a garbage analogy dude
not only this but like the federation, america antagonized them into action because the american people wanted nothing to do with the war and govt did so they needed to light a fire under their asses
Oh yeah, pretty sure they didn't gas a whole colony full of people.
That was done by the Titans, which were a Federation sponsored organization.
Stop being retarded.
/m/ is full of stupid people going "hurr durr zeon wank" or "feddie wank" when the point of Gundam is that, both sides do terrible things and innocent people get caught in.
Did you only just now get that?
>bitch over nonexistant racial issues
>viva la revolucion over nonexistant Cosmonoid oppression
>do more harm than good to their cause by acting like tremendous cunts all the time
>holy war is run by evil Jew
>It's like the WWII analogy - "America had no reason to join the war!" - Sorry, but after Pearl Harbor, they had every right. Like, any argument stumbles on that very first hurdle.
That's a pretty narrow vision.
America wanted to get in the war for a long time, in fact, it's problable they let Pearl harbor happen to get the support from the public.
The US is in a privileged area, away from the europoors that let them profit in the war more than any other country. Also, they DID drop a nuke on Japan (hurr durr but pearl harbor! Pearl Harbor was a military base you idiot, not two cities full of civilians after the war was over)
Fucking americans, go study history. Study SOMETHING for christ's sakes, you're the world idiots meme for a reason.
I'd still say that Zeon are worse, though. Since the Titans at least gassed their enemies. Zeon gassed people who were at worst neutral to the conflict. They also then used their home (and corpses) as a weapon of mass destruction. Which, sure, the Titans made a WMD out of their gassed colony, too, but being a laser cannon would be a more precise weapon than a colony drop. I don't recall the Gryps Laser ever accidentally destroying Australia.
>I don't recall the Gryps Laser ever accidentally destroying Australia.
Not for lack of trying. And remember the Colony Laser only happened because the AEUG stopped the Titans' actual colony drop.
America dropped nukes on civilian centers because they sat down and looked at the numbers of marines and Japanese (both civilians and military personnel) that had died in the fighting along the pacific over the course of the war and calculated that taking the Japanese home islands would probably cost half a million American lives and upwards of 10 million Japanese ones because they were so fanatical and fought to the last man. Civilians were committing suicide rather than let themselves be captured because they were being told that America would treat them like dogshit and suicide would be preferable, which they believed. If they'd dropped them on military targets the feeling was that the Japanese wouldn't be sufficiently shocked or hurt by the damage to surrender. As is, they weren't sufficiently shocked after Hiroshima to surrender and the vote to surrender after Nagasaki only passed by one vote from what I recall. Which would probably not have gone their way if the Japanese had known that America had no more atomic bombs and wouldn't have for months yet.
I do wonder if they could perhaps not have picked a military target first and a civilian one second, but at the same time, Japan barely surrendered as is, so maybe they made the right choice. It's very difficult to say. It did almost certainly save lives in the long run though, because Operation Downfall (the invasion of Japan's home islands) would have been an extremely bloody and drawn out affair no matter what happened.
>America wanted to get in the war for a long time
Absolutely untrue from both primary and secondary sournces. While there are always hawks, had Germany not declared war on the US after the US declaration on Japan, there was quite the debate in the Oval Office of whether or not there was legal or public backing to even take the war to Europe.
>let Pearl harbor happen
Conspiracy hypothesis don't make them true, anon.
> only passed by one vote from what I recall
It may be a bit of revisionist history in terms of what was the greatest impetus to surrender, but do remember that the Soviet Union declared war on Japan on August 8th, the day before the Nagasaki bombings. Japan's Kwantung Army, stationed in Manchuria (modern day northern China north of BEST KOREA) was quickly overrun in just a few days. During this campaign Japan surrendered (Aug 15th).
I would say that the direct bombing and decimation of two cities on their home islands by a force that was obviously preparing for an invasion was a greater incentive to surrender than another, equally powerful force taking a chunk of their foreign territory after declaring war. I'm sure that helped matters too, but there's no way it was greater impetus to surrender.
He'd gotten a report saying that Japan was eyeing up several territories and preparing to attack, possibly at Pearl Harbor (but including other places as well) and filled with lots of speculation. That's a far different thing that conclusive proof that Japan was going to attack on such a date or anything like it.
Anon, please. The advance-knowledge conspiracy theory has been thoroughly debunked so many times it's not even funny. If you're actually interested read the following:
Charles A. Beard. President Roosevelt and the Coming War 1941; William Henry Chamberlin, America's Second Crusade; John T. Flynn, The Roosevelt Myth; George Morgenstern, Pearl Harbor; Frederic R. Sanborn, Design for War; Robert Alfred Theobald, The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor; Harry E. Barnes, ed., Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace and The Court Historians versus Revisionism; Husband E. Kimmel, Admiral Kimmel's Story.
>le land invasion and japanese mass sudoku meme
Please stop spreading this bullshit. The plans for a land invasion is what they would have done if not for one reason - Russia. By the end of the pacific conflict in WWII, Russia and the USA were thinking about the aftermath i.e. how they were going to split up the land subjugated. America and Russia had plans for a joint operation in Japan, but this would have meant that Russia (and thus communism) would have claim to at least part of Japan. America did want that, so they swooped in with the h-bombs to take Japan 100%. Despite this, Russia and the USA still ended up in conflict right afterwards with their new puppet states during the Korean War. And here we are right now in 2016 still looking at North and South Korea, the direct aftermath of WWII's land allocation to the USA and Russia. If the nuke hadn't been used, it might have been North and South Japan today instead.
Even if Russia wasn't in the picture there's no way they'd have preferred to spend possibly billions of dollars funding an extended war that'd cost hundreds of thousands of lives and possibly endanger the careers of the people involved rather than dropping two bombs and killing some enemy civilians.
>That was done by the Titans, which were a Federation sponsored organization.
Pretty sure a significant portion of the Federation military rebelled because of that then fought a civil war to kick the Titans shit in. As opposed to Zeon,, who continued to cheer on the Zabis after the atrocities of the One Week Battle then conduct even more atrocities in their name after the end of the war.
Just wait until Black Knight gets here and says that the Federation holding a naval review is sufficient justification for Zeon to conduct the genocide of most of the Federation Spacenoid civilian population.
>taking Black Knight seriously
Why did tomino turn char into some environmental fag after msg?
>Titans, which were a Federation sponsored organization.
This is like saying the USSR is a Imperial Russian sponsored organization.
The Titans were in the end the just the Titans
They were formed by the federation. They consolidated too much power, but the feds didnt care, because theyre rich old fucks who just want things to be easier for themselves.
The zabis ordered gassing and colony drops, but the feds pretty much let Dublin get completely wasted, which is even worse, because it was born of complacency rather than ideals.
I don't even know why this is an argument, both sides are depicted as being terrible in 0079. The feds dont do shit for white base, the main group basically has to survive on its own. The zabis are bad but Char is acting on his own to take them out and decorrupt Zeon. Its like you all missed the point
>The feds dont do shit for white base, the main group basically has to survive on its own.
And why is that a bad thing? It's not like they are completely defenseless, or even relevant to the overall course of the war.
>The zabis are bad but Char is acting on his own to take them out and decorrupt Zeon.
Char doesn't give two shits about Zeon. He's a psychopath on a vengeance mission against the Zabis. Zeon can go fuck itself for all he cares.
Are you seriously comparing the rebellion against an oppressive regime to rape?
It's the chucklefucks behind La Place's Box and the lost charter's fault.
If that shit was publically available on their future version of the internet, then things would have been different.
Wouldn't have made a difference. The Zabis didn't give two fiddler's fucks about the constitution or anything in it. They wanted power and they were willing to start a war to get it. If the constitution had given spacenoids rights they'd simply have found new rhetoric and started a war anyways. The stuff about spacenoid rights/superiority wasn't even that prevalent in 0079.
>Implying oppressing Spacenoids is a bad thing.
Just a gentle reminder that 99% of wars in UC have been started by Crazy Genocidal Spacenoids, with the remaining 1% started by an Earthnoid who was really a closet Spacenoid lover (Jamitov).
What happens when the Federation ultimately collapses? An apocalyptic war (most likely started by Crazy Genocidal Spacenoids) that so decimates humanity that its reduced to cannibalism to survive.
If UC proves anything, it's that the Titans were right and you need to keep the boot on Spacenoids for the good of the continued survival of humanity.
Confirmed for retard.
Japan was already crippled at that point and had lost most of their population via fire bombings. Their centers of military production were all destroyed. They were basically defenseless. Combined air and ground forces wouldn't have had that hard of a time, and it most definitely would not have been the bloodbath you are making it out to be.
The only reason Japan was holding out at all at that point was because they hoped to use Russia as a bargaining chip to negotiate better terms or make the invasion so costly in American lives that they'd have to give better terms to end it before the politicians running it from the American side were ousted for killing American soldiers needlessly. Japan was cut off, out-gunned and technologically backward in most of their encounters throughout the Pacific, and yet they made the Americans pay for every foot they gained in blood by just holing up in vast underground networks that were impossible to take out via conventional means. If they'd do that for a shitty little island in the middle of nowhere you can be damn sure they'd do it for the homeland.
I just don't get why some hardcore zion fans seems think that zion is the hetoic ,the soldiers are honorable and brave while fed is the villain that soldiers are weak cowered that like to assoult women .
They seems to frogot and ignore that while the fed is corrupted they are still more peaceful.zion is a radical and racial facis totalitarianism organization that likes start wars after wars,killing billions when there be peace.
Say what you want about the Federation. They maybe corrupt but when Mother Earth are in danger they will do their best to defend them.
They have the option to curled up and die during Zansacare War but they manned the fuck up for one more battle.
Long Live Freedom
The americans were firebombing the shit out of civilian areas in Japan like Tokyo before they dropped the nukes anyway.
Either way(nukes or firebombing), they were targetting the civilian centers, which isn't exactly pleasant.
Except they did. Why would you gas a colony that doesn't have people in it? And we know that colonies were gassed based on accounts from both Cima (who actually did the gassing) and Shiro (who witnessed a Zaku break through the shell of a Colony and fire a rocket containing some gas that killed the population).
Yes, it would have been. Looking over the plans for the invasion, as well as the bombardment leading up to it, the mass use of both chemical weapons and new cruise missiles would have resulted in horrific mass civilian casualties off the bat. On the japanese side of things, thousands of suicide weapons were prepared to defend the landing zones, stay-behind forces were prepared to wreak havok behind lines, and limited production weapons, including the best and heaviest Japanese tanks of the war had been earmarked for the final defense some time already. Even conservative estimates for loss of life were absolutely repulsive. The deaths in both nuclear drops, including postwar deaths, were a mere fraction of the millions estimated dead.
You fuckers wanted to save earth by starting another ice age that would more than likely wiped out thousands of animal species and radically change the ecosystem for the worst
Did your space suit spring a leak when Haman almost kill you?
Literally all of the other Sides were perfectly fine with living under the Federation. The most a few of them did was say "okay, do whatever you want, just leave us out of it". Of those other five Sides, Zeon immediately gassed three and then attacked a fourth so they could drop one of its colonies. The only group of other spacenoids they didn't attack was Side 6, until 0080 when they planned to nuke one of Side 6's colonies.
Zeon is literally responsible for more spacenoid deaths than the Titans could have ever hoped for, because there were not enough people left after Zeon had its way for the Titans to be physically capable of matching their killcount.
Need me to re-explain the difference between official and canon since you still don't seem to understand them?
Or to remind you of the fact that the Federation had 2 decades of constant military build up before war finally broke out?
You make is sound like new life wouldn't take its place after the ice age from Axis being dropped ended and the Earth would remain a giant ice ball that gets blown up by Owlman's QED. Also hundreds, if not thousands of species go extinct every day. Where's your bleeding heart for them?
That was only because Side 3 trailblazed the path for them and offered military support during the push for Independence. The Federation saw that economic sanctions and saber rattling only made the situation worse for them in regards to Side 3 and decided to be conciliatory as a means of a divide and conquer strategy since taking the same hardline stance they did with Side 3, would drive Side 6 right into Side 3's camp.
Actually, they were all pro-Federation and were all Federation aligned Sides minus Side 6 when hostilities broke out. You also have to remember that the Federation's Space Capital was at Side 1, so it's not like the Federation didn't have a major presence in space. As for Side 5. The facts around the Battle of Loum are hazy since while it was originally thought that Zeon gased a colony at Side 5 to drop on Earth, you have MS IGLOO come along and say the planned colony drop was misinformation to bring out the Federation fleets out into a decisive battle. Even more damning is the battle started well away from Side 5, which meant that the Federation would have had to have retreated into the Side itself for Loum to have been destroyed in any possible cross fire. At best, the Federation was partially responsible for the destruction of Loum. At worst, it was entirely their fault for Side 5's destruction since they used the colonies as shields in an attempt to retreat.
>Also hundreds, if not thousands of species go extinct every day.
This is actual sad panda.
No one one would give a fuck if some newly discovered draft of the the consitution of their country is found and be printed on the internet now
Thats not true at all. They just don't look like the internet we have today. But a global instaneous network of communication has been featured in sci-fi since the turn of the last century. Here is one off the top of my head:
>The Machine Stops E.M Forster 1909
The feds are the lesser of 2 evils.
Yeah, they are bad, but Zeon attacked fellow spacenoids 30 seconds after declaring war on the feds and later dropped a colony on Earth. They killed fellow spacenoids and threw their homes on Earth, and hit Australia instead.
The australian shitposters are bad, but their shitposting never warranted a colony drop, maybe a nuke or two, but not throwing spacenoids' home at the australians after killing the spacenoids, that's just blatantly using the excuse of dealing with the shitposters to actually commit mass murder of innocent people.