Why develop the VF-24? If all you are going to use is the VF-171..
This is shit.
They wanted to build a VF that had a higher G-tolerance than the 19 family and one with more versatility and that's why the VF-25 has so many packs while the 19 design doesn't allow for as many options.
I'm an idiot, I thought you were implying the 19 had better specs than the 25 or something. You do bring up a good point though, why are they still using Nightmares Pluses in Delta? The 19s would be a better choice. But it's still just the first episode and Kawamori did say they will be traveling to other planets and star systems so there's a strong possibility we could see other NUNS garrisons flying 19s.
The VF-19 was designed to replace the VF-11 as the main UN Spacy VF. However, Kawamori and Big West decided that VF-19 looked "too cool" to be grunt VF in Macross Frontier, so they modified the VF-17 into the VF-171 instead. Internal logic be damned, they could and did retcon whatever they liked. Sigh.
UN Spacy didn't want the farther emigrant worlds/colonies/fleets to have the VF-19 and VF-22. Battle/City 7 was able to get them due to Max having pull with the Earth government.
The VF-19P is made for the purpose of export. Some of its tech is restricted/removed.
SMS got some VF-19E's on the condition that they work with Shinsei and that limiters will be placed on some mechanisms. These VFs will be modified into the VF-19EF and VF-19EFs.
The embargo by UN Spacy / NUNS on latest tech developed by the main government and its core worlds has caused emigrant companies to come up with their own tech.
It turns out that the competition in Plus ended with the 2 sides making planes so good that average grunts can't use it properly.
The 19 had to be nerfed with a reworked airframe so that it's more controllable for a less-skilled pilot, becoming the variants like the 19F that Macross 7 fleet got.
The 21 had its BDI removed and cockpit swapped out for a regular cockpit.
Both planes ended up only in ace squads anyway.
They were also skeptical that the profiles of the -19 and the -25 would be too similar.
Although given that a -19MP would be in plane form most of the time like the -171EX was, it's a flimsy excuse for them to make, even if the -19 and its later variants can swing its wings backwards.
It wouldn't really be that off-key to not mass-produce the -19; looking at that period of time, the -17, -19, and the -22 were all intended as very high-spec designs that don't fit the more traditional looks of the -1/-11. Which the -171 wasn't really deserving of as a heavy fighter-bomber and it only looked small because the -25 is a pretty long/tall VF by any other measurement and the bias in portraying typical military pilots in 7 and Frontier meant that there was even less time to showcase military VFs with the packs that made the various VF-1s so readily identifiable.
There is a for-point if you consider than the -171 is the "heavy" and the Ghost drones the spammable "light" (I believe that was the case in the portrayal of NUNS tactical thinking in Frontier) but there were enough spaces between the -11/-14 and the -17/-19/-22 to accommodate both an in-between MP VF and if they so wanted, its off-the-naming-series mass-production variant like how the -5000 was produced for low-budget colonies compared to the -4 that the UNS was using at that time. I guess only Kawamori knows the in-depth reason of why the -171 came to be in the end, whether he really wanted the -17 to be MP-fied or he just didn't want the additional load of designing at least one new VF on top of the -25 and the -27 in Frontier.
>Internal logic be damned
It's not remotely uncommon for a military force to develop an advanced fighter and then realize it's too much work to maintain after ordering a few then adopt an evolutionary variant of an older reliable model as their workhorse instead.
not that dude, but i'm ok with it never showing up again. i just wish someone would make a proper plamo kit of it (with the fast pack).
Agree, just look at the F-22. It is more advanced than the F-35, and yet they stopped making the F-22 because it is too expensive to make and too advanced to export to allied countries. Thus the F-35, a low cost version of the F-22, was developed.
The F-22 was a pure fighter. The F-35 is a JSF. It's the swiss army knife the military has wanted since forever.
It was supposed to be cheaper, turned out to be the most expensive weapons program in history, and won't have the software to run everything it's equipped with until, like, 2025.
That being said, it's probably going to be more useful than having a bunch of F-22s once all is said and done, given how many jets the US shoots down these days.
more like they are upgrading the Strike Eagle and Super Hornet (which are both already enhanced versions of the original)
please read more news and real-world stuff, man. Or at least spend a day in /k/. The same thing will happen that happened to the 22 will happen to the F-35 the moment a relevant government contract or re-election campaign is over, and then we'll finally get the up-rated mega-Warthog everyone has always wanted.
Anyone else think the 171 is kind of gross? I don't mond the color scheme but I just hate the enlingated nose on it. I'm much more partial to the 17's snub nose, since it makes it look more like the stealth planes from which it's derived.
IIRC M7's Next gen fighter was planned to be directly descended from the VF-19, so at least they didn't inexplicably drop it.
IMO im glad they went this way. Imagine the asspain seeing VF-19s getting destroyed en masse like 171's were.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. You ask about the YF/VF 24 versus the VF171, but post the YF-19.
Both the designs from Macross Plus were extremely high spec and had killed their pilots.
The governments in Macross are also not unified, with each colony getting a lot of autonomy de facto. Trust may not be high even among colonies (see Macross Frontier movies). Politics and budget can easily answer why they get the lower spec but easier to handle VF171.
As for why to develop the YF-24 line, they wanted to push the boundaries of design. That line's main contribution is technology to relieve high G strain, which allows later fighters to pull maneuvers that would kill the pilots in older fighters.
That's literally what happens. She gives Leon, the player character, a busted VF-0D that's initially unable to transform out of battroid mode. And she deploys a few missions after that and even Leon's like "Wait. What?!"
Like, pretty much everything you encounter would be a suicide mission in an early VF if it weren't for "LOL, RPG mechanics."
Like the other dude said: The 19's kinda costly and it doesn't have the same variety in its equipment packs that the 25 has. The FAST, Armored and Tornado packs mean the 25 can usually have more firepower and maneuverability than the 19. Even the mass-production versions of the 19 were all pretty scaled-back as far as features and stuff goes. With the exception of the VF-19A and VF-19P, I mean.
I really like the long nose. Gives it a space fighter look.
Yeah, that too. One of the things I loved about the Nightmare was how thick kt looked. It's also one of the rare occasions where the S type is the inferior one.
it's GERWALK is awkward as fuck, no wonder you hardly ever see that mode.
anyone remembers what this is from? Honestly, I wanted to ask about a series whose name i forgot.
The humans were using recordings of Minmei's singing to throw off the zentraedi when they finally ran into a group of Zentraedi with their own singer and music and got their ass kicked... anyone remembers the name of that series?
I'm totally slowpoking here, but I just realized every VF with a number that ends in "9" is named after a sword.
And they all have forward-swept wings as well.
To be fair, Leon is her newly arrived subordinate who managed to wreck his fairly rare machine. She seems to be fairly short on resources with only frigate under her command while exploring an extremely unusual yet incredibly backwater planet. The fact you have to scratch build your Valkyries kind of says something about how stretched SMS is in the area.
And besides, we all know what happened to the last time a Meltran loaned out her rare reddish schemed Valkyrie to some hotshot subordinate.
What's the point of this though?
The whole purpose of far migrant fleets was to ensure humanity would never again be a hairs breadth away from extinction. By not giving out the latest tech, aren't they basically contradicting this mind-set? Especially since the furthest migrant fleets would be facing dangers unknown to the core worlds, and that may outclass earlier tech.
politics, no doubt. The farther you get from a humanity-galvanizing turning point event, they more likely it will rear its ugly head and impose the consequences of bad decisions on the people.
Politics and people in charge being stupid.
This is also why colony fleets being able to make decisions on their own without NUNS HQ is good though, if NUNS HQ doesn't give them the tech, then they can develop their own.
Zentradi rebels and Human terrorists tend to turn their own tech against them. Which is why Earth is giving only monkey models.
Now there those Kingdom of Wind ingrates after uplifting them turn against the NUN.
You mean, YF-24.
The YF-24 was a deathtrap if the fate of 2 out of the 3 prototypes is anything to go by.
>1 crashed from malfunctioning linear actuators
>another had its ISC malfunction and kill its pilot
Yeah. It goes both ways. Don't give, and resentment builds up against the "Earthers" for hoarding the best. Give tech, and undesirables far away from Earth's reach can do lots of fiddly things. IIRC the Lucifer was a wholly Galaxy fleet development (NUNS called it the YF-27 because they had no idea that a colony fleet was building a full VF model separate from the -25) so the colony fleets aren't entirely tied and hurting for lack of protection on their own given their considerable accompanying R&D/fabrication ships. And we all know Galaxy is the shifty one when it comes to exercising a bit of caution in selling to customers.
Besides, if I understand the whole monkey model business correctly, core technology is still given to all fleets. Arguably the selling point of the YF-24 was the (vastly improved) ISC tech and nothing is stopping any of the fleets from selling the blueprints to a wandering malcontent faction for adoption by, say, anti-NUNS dissatisfied elements. They hadn't even developed the -25 either when the -24 plans were sent out, so to call it monkey model is a bit on the side of hyperbole.
It's a stark contrast from the original use of the phrase which was for Soviet export gear, and was deliberately manufactured to be inferior to home-use gear (NUNS even used the -25 as the next mainline fighter so it seems like there's a little story untold in-between Frontier and Delta of a give-and-take relationship between the fleets/colonies and the core worlds). It's not like the data they sent out was for a half-working VF frame using VF-11-level engines and with a deliberately-downgraded ISC blueprint capable only for a fifth of the original's performance; I feel that they purposely transmitted a prototype to see what those on the frontier could add to it and decided that the -25 was close enough to what they expected from direct NUNS-based development.
Actually Galaxy never gave the finalized YF-27 design to NUNS for approval. In Macross the Ride they deliberately set the YF-27-5 Sharer Female prototype to fail, and it only had two engines instead of four.
>it's GERWALK is awkward as fuck, no wonder you hardly ever see that mode.
You want an awkward gerwalk, ya gotta go 19.
So you didn't play the game or even have a basic grasp of japanese, I'm guessing both since in the beginning of the game Aish is seen talking in zentran to some disgruntled zentradi and the villain of 30 hates zentradi for what they did in Space War 1 and that's why he's always giving Aisha hateful looks or talking down to her.
I-I like the VF-25 more. Just a little...
>They were also skeptical that the profiles of the -19 and the -25 would be too similar.
I think forward-swept vs rear-swept would've been enough of a differentiator.
The YF-21 should've won and the VF-22 should've become the new mainline Valk.
You know that this to be true, anyone outside of /m/ or /k/ or the "sci-fi"-related boards can't tell cars apart, let alone aircraft transforming into giant robots.
My big problem with the YF-19 and VF-19 is that they're physically impossible. Even the most accurate toy versions have to integrate some really retarded transformation mechanisms to make everything work properly. The YF-21 and VF-22 have a similar problem, although to a lesser degree.
The VF-17 is a worst offender of physical impssibility.
>is that some transformers
It's not about how they look. They look fine. My issue is that the transformation requires the forward fuselage to "shrink" by way of having it hinge in and become shorter, by having the "spine" in Battroid mode slide up and extend, and that the arms require huge sections of the legs to be cut out and filled with either clip-in filler pieces, or sliding panels. The toys look fine, but the transformation requires all these stupid compromises to make them work.