Why are there no good western mecha designs?
I've been searching for years and years and have yet to find a single example that impresses me. Artists just seem content to rehash Kawamori and Shirow designs and don't know any colours other than gray or brown. This is humorous since "western mecha design" essentially means "knockoff japanese mecha design" yet it's often held in opposition.
Is there anything good at all?
Yeah, but you need to look around.
I like Charlie.
I kinda agree with him.
With some exceptions, mecha in western sci-fi is pretty much limited to military sci-fi (thus the limited color palettes) Really in the sense of "walking piloted vehicle" mecha is rare in western sci-fi to begin with. There's a pretty long tradition of power armor showing up in miliatry sci-fi but outside of stuff like 40k the designs tend towards a more utilitarian aesthetic rather than a fantastical one.
In general you see a lot more focus on ships and fighters in western franchises.
Mecha is less popular in the west
Therefore mecha is less profitable in the west
Therefore there are fewer professionals who design mecha
Therefore there are fewer good mecha designs
Tau stuff from Warhammer 40K
Pretty much all the mech shit in Starcraft is good (Seige tanks, Protoss immortals etc)
Literally everything from Heavy Gear (especially the Grizzly)
There's plenty of good shit, just gotta dig deeper.
Don't be so pessimistic.
I'm not really surprised there's a dearth of good mecha designs in the West, when the mecha genre is considered super niche over here when compared to Japan where it's a major genre (or at least was). There's not much on the way of shows or films or comics which treat them as the main subject, at least not to the same extent as Japan.
It's like how Japan doesn't have much in the way of comics about superheroes in the way that America does.
BattleTech is grab bag. Some designs are great, others are utter dogshit. I think a big problem with western mecha, building off of >>13700429, is with the focus on >realism, you get a lot of overdetail and general lack of ambition with designs. You just aren't going to get a lot of mileage when your general concept for a design is 'a box with legs and guns'. It makes it very hit and miss; either you get something cool, or something really uninspired.
Or in short, what >>13700718 said.
No arguments here.
I rather like the looks of many 40k machines. Dreadnoughts, Sentinels, etc are often very militaristic looking but still tasteful. All of the races have their own aesthetic that their machines play into. Tau I find to be the most boring.
Old guys, ike 2E Imperial titans, are pretty zany. I love 'em. Modern stuff meanwhile like the Orkonauts and newer Tau machines seem pretty boring.
It depends what you're into.
Most of the designs done by David A. White (mechamaster/mechazone) are gold, whether original designs or redrawings of existing ones. He's done work in some of the more recent BattleTech technical readouts and did the Mech concept art for the MechWarrior 4 games.
There are plenty of good western mech designs, it's just that the average westerner has pleb taste in mecha so you usually only get to see the bad ones posted. Also, in the west there is more of a demand for traditional planes/spacefighters/tanks/helicopters/etc which take attention away from humanoid robots. This is in contrast to Japan where everything that is not a humanoid robot is always an after though.
MadCat/Timberwolf is one of the few good design from BT though. Though it would look even more awesome if a jap artist gave it a make over.
>It's too bad that guy falls under the "knockoff Japanese" category.
Japs have been knocking off Okawara for decades, why can't others do the same?
I really like the Warlord Titans. The straight 2nd ed. stuff is a bit to cartoony to me, but there have been some nice fusions of the more modern Titan designs with some of the older heraldric sensibilities. Adeptus Mechanicus stuff in general is pretty great.
What doesn't fall under your "knockoff japanese" definition? Because it's looking pretty damn inclusive right now.
I don't understand. What is the problem with western mecha designs?
Could you post a different picture that you find appealing and make points on why the picture I posted is not appealing?
Also, the original Black Knight design was in the Star Wars Holiday Special and The Empire Strikes Back before it was in BattleTech.
>Both armor designs based on traditional suits of armor
>must be cribbing off each other
Wait, no it isn't. It's literally CALLED the Black Knight. How do you not get that it's inspired by knight armor?
>Tau stuff from Warhammer 40K
Tau have the WORST mechs in 40k.
Wraith machines and Dreadnoughts are actually creative and unusual, Tau mechs are the exact same bland Kawamori knockoffs as every other western mech property.
Moonland already made every robot design motif imaginable and you're looking for something that isn't a "knockoff japanese mecha design" from a market that has fringe interest at best in that sort of thing?
Post shitty Japanese designs
You bet your ass I went there
Basically this. Japan had literally none of that pride in machinery that the West had. Their tanks were shit, their planes were cheap, and their rockets nonexistent except for suicide missions.
It looks like the same subject to me. There are zero memorable stories about Western piloted robots the same way there are basically zero memorable Western designs since they're mostly cribbed from early 80s Japanese designs and never evolved. They're stuck in that time period design and setting wise
Oh, well, I only see mecha as beautifully crafted metal, and the not stories they are attached too. You do make a point though about western mecha lacking story.
But when you are talking about memorability of the western mecha is it more about having the mecha genre evolve into something different? Like it creates its own splitting genre of japanese mecha? Would you want it to involve an american take on humanoid robots or branch off to something slightly different like having power armor capable of becoming a speeding bullet that could take a Gundam down on it's own?
Also what makes a mecha memorable? Is it's design, shape, or what it can do?
Gundam. Zaku. Mazinger. Getter. VF-1. Jehuty. Metal Gear. All of these are very popular robots and all look very different from each other and it's because they're all part of stories. They are in your face and do amazing things whenever they're on the page or on the screen. They look very cool sure, but they're involved in pieces of fiction and they get you more engaged
Your view appears to be one that most fans of 'Western mecha' have, they're just cool looking robots. But most of them appear only on pieces of paper and don't move around in any medium unless it's a Battletech game. For the most part, they're drawings with a write up of their statistics and capabilities and it's up to the consumer to think of cool stuff for it to do. Most of those robots are just setting material, they're part of settings but not part of any stories. Most of those settings take their cues from Battletech, which is stuck in the 80s since it was born from 80s anime designs and that aesthetic. It's all the same crap
This is a fault with creators more than anything that they can't stop fellating the blocky 80s designs. Consumers of American mecha media have shown that they will form attachments to particular robots and react positively to them more than they will with the Battletech inspired hunks of metal that exist as setting material
Megas XLR is a cult classic because of Megas
Voltron and the Megazord are much more beloved than Golion and DaiRyuJin ever were because they were the first hero robots
Optimus Prime is a pop culture icon
tl dr: make mecha stories not just mech settings and mechs
So western mecha are vehicles with pilots and eastern mecha are superheroes that have meatbags inside.
They're not vehicles really, they're designs. They have no function, they're just 'combat vehicles'
Modern weaponry, aircraft, tanks and navel vessels are liked by enthusiast because they have functions, not just because they're real. Tanks blow things up. Planes shoot and scout things. Guns are used for shooting. They're used against other people and in specific contexts to accomplish a goal and all of their specs and loadouts are for their intended mission. Those vehicles you post don't really have any purpose, they aren't usually part of any made up conflicts
thanks for the insight. What I'm understanding is make a mecha that is used for the purpose of the stories situation. Not have story revolve around mecha. That's why western mecha doesn't have a good hold on the mecha fan base.
An example is a metal gear. Metal Gear Rex was made for the purpose of ending wars between nations. And the subject of the story was the conflict between two nations.
Also evolve your aesthetic, jesus christ.
Here's a good example. Gravion's not actually that old a mech, it's from the 2000s, but the image shows off what's wrong with Western mechs in general. The image on the left is drawn in much the way Gravion would have been drawn in the 70s or 80s. Odd, blocky proportions, flat colors, stock standing straight at attention pose. In Eastern media they've evolved past that as a design aesthetic as technology has improved and it's become easier to draw better, to do more with proportion and detail. You can tell what decade something was designed in because it shows a transformation in style. In Western media they've just taken that late 80s/early 90s aesthetic and imitated it over and over. New artists copy the old ones without updating what they draw or how they draw it.
Probably the most original new mech designs we've gotten in Western media come from fucking Magic the Gathering.
You literally, LITERALLY quoted a post with an image that did exactly what you just described.
>What I'm understanding is make a mecha that is used for the purpose of the stories situation. Not have story revolve around mecha.
Not necessarily. What that tripshit was saying was that the mecha in a story need to actually matter instead of being a fucking background footnote in order for American audiences to start appreciating the mecha. It's for this reason that people appreciate something like Megas. In its show, Megas is front and center, intergral to the story, does a whole bunch of cool shit onscreen and its design is distinctive and reflective of these facts.
Compare this to something like a chicken walker from Star Wars. Fucking no one watches Star Wars for the chicken walkers and if you remove them, absolutely fuck all changes. They're just there as part of the background. So unimportant that I can't even remember their actual names. The problem with most western mecha fiction is that they follow the Star Wars model rather than the Megas model.
I think Striker Eureka is sexually attractive t b h
I liked the stop motion puppet stuff from Robot Jox.
To be fair, the US kept their battleships behind and threw planes at basically anything they can throw planes at.
Yamato and her escorts was swarmed by like 15 carriers worth of planes.
Destroyer Yukikaze still got out of that mess though, that fucking unsinkable ship.
The impressive one is the Musashi, which took nearly 20 torpedo hits to go down.
Most of this thread makes good points. 'Merican mech designs are stuck in the 80s, with their chicken Walker designs and box on legs stuff. Having a robot that has character, it sticks out from a crowd and has a "personality" of its own helps. What I'm trying to say is it exudes heroism if it's a hero robot, and evil if it's a villain robot. 'Merican designs keep Reiterating the military so it looks military and it's boring with its repetitive nature. Tbh some of my favorite western designs are steampunk robots and transformers designs. How about let's take the old anime idea of remote piloting a robot ala giant robo or tetsujin and make more western mech stories and designs like that. It'd be appealing to me and I think a lot of People would like it.
Just try to start telling stories with robots instead of drawing them to be part of setting fluff. Don't just make a bunch of designs either that all look like variants and descendants early 80s Kawamori. Aim more towards Gundam
I can name all of these of the top of my head from just the Gundam TV anime. It's what, less than 20 robots? But they're all different aesthetically and do different things in the story, rather than all being walking fortresses that exist only as part of a setting without any events
When creating a mecha why should I aim more towards a Gundam? I don't understand what the appeal is. Some of the designs do look nice, especially the zaku and the most of the zeon army and I enjoy the looks of the Turn A. But every other Gundam seems some what similar. Not exactly the same, they all do look different, but they follow a sort of same design scheme. And if I would make a mecha similar to a gundam design, I feel I would get flak for making a rehash of gundam.
Gundam is a dinosaur series that has gone on far too long for its own good but is still around so Sunrise can be lazy with their mech designs when they think of new plamo.
Personally I'm of the opinion that western stuff needs to adopt a more "super robot" (for lack of a better term) mentality to design and show structure. Have the show revolve around one main robot. It's much easier to make one unique and cool design than 20 and it allows you to focus more on trying to tell a story. It's also much easier to make that one robot significant when it's the only one that's there. Note that this also applies to having one singular mecha made of several combining components, but it's harder to pull off design wise. Still easier than taking the "real robot" approach, but it's rare that I see a combining robot where it looks like every part perfectly complements every other part.
They're all memorable, unique and serve a specifc function. Don't ape the Gundam DESIGN, people should try to be like Gundam in use of the robots. I couldn't name all the units in any other mecha series but 0079 because of how unique all the suits are and aren't just slightly different from each other with the exception of the marine type units
Gundam- prototype all terrain unit with beam rifle and saber
Guncannon- prototype mid range combat unit, uses ballistic weaponry
Guntank- prototype long range combat unit with treads and no hand manipulators, has no use in space, ballistics
GM- mass produced all terrain unit derived from the gundam with cheaper beam weaponry
Ball- repurposed space pods fitted as a last resort to fight Zeon MS
Zaku II- workhorse of Zeon, capable of combat on earth or in space, standard equipment was a machine gun and heat hawk
Gouf- proposed Zaku successor for combat on Earth that never went through with a focus on melee combat, heat rod
(Rick) Dom- Zaku successor with hovering legs and a sword and bazooka as standard equipment, Doms were designed for earth use but the Rick Doms were repurposed to be able to use in space with its extra thrusters
Gelgoog- final Zeon grunt suit of the war, they've finally figured out beam weaponry without having it built into the suit and are equipped with beam naginatas and rifles
Gogg- marine type suit with claws and a chest mounted mega partical cannon
Z'Gok- basically the same as the gogg but improved
Acguy- basically the same as the above two. However they all look different from each other despite having the same functions and their loadouts are slightly different, like the Acguy having guns in its hands
Gyan- prototype melee type unit with a beam saber and a shield with missiles
Braw Bro- tiny ship with beam weaponry
Elmeth- tiny ship with beam weaponry and deployable laser guns in space
Zakrello- tiny goofy looking ship with claws and a missile launcher.
Zeong - incomplete drone MS
This game is fucking great. It's made by Western devs and does exactly what it's going for. A humorous kind of anime game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_cCOBF9KZ8
By humorous I mean poking fun at a lot of mecha tropes.
>Push over character that comes out of nowhere and obsesses over you as her "Rival"
>The entire love triangle thing
>The posters and magazines scattered around
It's pretty fun. Made by the devs of FEAR, Condemned, AvP 2, Blood, No ones lives forever, etc.
>Monolith will never be allowed by WB to make >their own mecha game.
>We will never get SHOGO 2.
I'd love to see a new one. It's a niche thing though. People who don't watch mecha probably wouldn't enjoy Shogo as much and will probably miss what it's trying to do. Like watching a sort of subtle parody of something you've never read/watched/etc
The sad fact that without a toyetic drive to sell giant robots in cartoon there was no market for it.
Part of mecha's success was because anime was a toy commercial. Everything mecha related was because it had to clear its plastic stock the best it can or they go outta business
>Probably the most original new mech designs we've gotten in Western media come from fucking Magic the Gathering.
That just reminds me of how both Obari and Anno talking about how if you wanted to get into mechanical design and animation. Both said you had to look outside the genre/medium for inspiration, to avoid it becoming incestuous rehashes.
the biggest problem with western robot design is the idea that they need to look "realistic" isn't even grounded in actual realism. modern tanks and airplanes look cool and are very maneuverable, but western fans are stuck with the idea that robots need to be boxy and lumbering. when you look at the battletech mechs, a lot of them end up needing to be redesigned when they're used in games because the original designs literally have 0 range of movement.
You are attempting to apply reason and logic to something that defies it by nature. You are rigidifying something which does its best when it is allowed to go and flow freely, and it comes out the worse for it pretty much all the time. By trying to answer more questions more questions are produced.
>boxy shit w/ legs = tank
This is a misconception at best.
You must understand that there are principles which go into a tanks' design and development which lead to its performance as an armored vehicle.
The reason why boxy junk on legs is not a tank is because it is most often not done with any actual purpose in mind. Surface divisions, paneling, greebles etc. are, on many Western properties, often added with no regard to purpose, merely to making a machine, and this nearly always leads to on the whole poorer-looking designs.
Dougram's "development" by Americans into Battletech and its offshoots IMO epitomizes this. Battletech machines are more often than not clusterfucks and lack a certain purposefulness in their designs. Other franchises manage to do this well, but Battletech is very weak on the whole and because it's tried to stay true to its Western incarnations rather than Dougram, its designs have remained weak.
>tank with legs meme
you know modern tanks are pretty fast and not even that boxy. plus there's more to walking than just bending your knees. a bunch of battletech designs don't even look like they have a waist to turn anyway.
You can kind see where a waist would go on that one but it has no real way to bring its arms forward. They can only really go up and down as they are now, plus the waist, even if able to rotate, can't bend in any direction. Stiff as fuck.
>The only time Yamato fired her main guns at enemy surface targets was in October 1944, when she was sent to engage American forces invading the Philippines during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. On the verge of success, the Japanese force turned back, believing they were engaging an entire US carrier fleet rather than the light escort carrier group that was all that stood between the battleship and the vulnerable troop transports.
> citing wikipedia
Read some of naval historian Robert Lundgren's stuff. Yamato wrecked 4 more ships than the Iowa's entire career, lel. During Operation Hailstone, the Iowa had a hard time even hitting a dead in the water Jap destroyer and BB New Jersey had to join in to finish the job.
>Hey Joe, how many Murican BBs it take to scupper a listing, lone Jap light cruiser?
The zero wreck every plane in the Pacific pre 43
>Ki84, NK1J, J2M5, H8K, Ki67, Ki 100 ll
>Jap rockets not exsistent
Modern times, they were the first to land a probe on a fucking comet.
Go back to jerking of to History channel reruns, faggot.
What's the purpose of all the weird paneling and golden ventilation? Banshee looks like shit in IMO. How do you know the battle tech mecha body pieces don't have purpose? I don't you see you reciting any information that battletech has to offer other than the oldest designs you have seen. Everything could be said about a gundam since i haven't touched gundam and I bet there is fictitious science to back up a gundams articulation and how it can lift a weapon 10 times heavier than what it can actually lift.
Banshee? What are you talking about?
>how do you know the battle tech mecha body pieces don't have purpose
I am speaking from a design standpoint; they visually clutter the machnes' appearance in a manner that is not condusive to its appearance.
In any case if you look at any existing armored vehicle you can see quite clearly how it is put together. It is not nearly so disjointed as on any Battlemech I have seen.
>reciting information that battletech has to offer other than the oldest designs you have seen
I have not pointed out any Battletech designs at all. I posted the Crab Gunner. It's from Dougram.
The one BT design I actually took note of has no way to move its arms in any manner besides up and down.
>everything could be said about a gundam because I haven't touched it and there's fictitious expanations for its articulation
I don't understand. Which Gundam? What do you even mean? If you mean the RX-78-2 it was intended to evoke samurai imagery. There's nothing in the design intended to sell it as being more real.
Similarly, for articulation just go to a kit. There's a million with varying methods of offering articulation and the HG Revive is quite flexible.
If you want a Gundam lineart-accurate to MSG look at the Robot Damashii A.N.I.M.E version.
In any case no extensive effort is made to cover every conceivable realism base in MSG.
Go watch MSG. If you haven't watched any Gundam at all you're cutting yourself off from quite a bit and a generally enjoyable franchise. At least the original series, yes?
After that, why not try Dougram? Good stuff.
>The one BT design I actually took note of has no way to move its arms in any manner besides up and down.
You see that big circular thing on the elbow? That's a pivot point. Small circle on the shoulder? Pivot. The shoulder itself can probably rotate too, and maybe the upper arm can twist.
>Why are there no good western mecha designs?
Because OP is a faggot. No, seriously.
>yet to find a single example that impresses me
That is the epitome of the fallacy of moving the goalposts. Please list the qualities that a mech would need to embody to impress you. We'll see two things:
1) Your qualifications are nebulous e.g. "original".
2) You're just a weeaboo who cannot distinguish between your own personal preferences and genuine artistic talent in the creation of designs.
A Dragon could stomp down your light under weight medium mech.
man I'm not sure where the idea for the dragon came from...
The earliest dragon looks nothing like the current design. I can totally see the resemblance it has to the steel marauder. How can you not see it?
Command & Conquer
...of the top of my head. I thought you at /m/ were supposed to know this shit, im just visiting.
And don't go prancing in your weeaboo hat saying that west is just copying the east, it happens both ways.
To me the best looking stuff is a mix of the utilitarianism of the west with the fantasy of the East. For example: Front Mission Series.
As a matter of fact many of the concepts for the NCsofts new mech game's units come from western concept artists.
Oh Just remembered some more:
Mass Effect 3
March of War
Pretty sure the list goes on, so relax. Good Mechs all around.
It slipped in there, I stand corrected on this one.
One Must Fall
IMO Warhammer 40k's mecha are very good from an aesthetic-thematic design standpoint. The Titans of each of the races do a good job of reflecting their design philosophies. Imperial mechs are large, clunky, and unwieldy, adorned with castles or whole cathedrals on top, reflecting the theocratic nature of their society. Orky mechs are cobbled together from whatever they can find and covered with claws, saws, and ersatz guns, reflecting how they fight and think. And Eldar mechs are extremely thick and graceful, again fitting with the Space Elf aesthetic. Say what you will about Games Workshop, but their artists and designers knew what they were doing and did some pretty original stuff too.
And the Steel Marauder looks like a Bushwacker.
Much more than a Dragon looks like it, actually.
One thing about Star Wars is that it rejects the utilitarian "box on legs covered in pointless lines" shit. It's more like a modernized version of the classic pulp sci-fi stuff such as Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon, yet it doesn't just copy that style wholesale.
I'm not a fan of Battletech at all, but I was really impressed by the redesigns for MWO. They kept the established shapes while successfully modernising the look, and managed to cobble together a consistent aesthetic. Just look at the hands on the Hunchback there: apart from being a huge improvement over the old ham hands, it demonstrates how right a giant robot looks weapon proper hands.
Honestly, more Battlemechs could do with dropping the arm cannon thing and getting some fists.
Haha, nope, it really is a 40k Eldar Titan. 40k Titans have been around since the mid to late 80s, IIRC. While the Tau are obviously pretty Gundam/Macross inspired, the early Titans are a pretty good example of original Western /m/, as far as I know.
Awesome game BTW, just wish there was a Battlefield 2143
Everything you listed is the definition of:
>Artists just seem content to rehash Kawamori and Shirow designs and don't know any colours other than gray or brown. This is humorous since "western mecha design" essentially means "knockoff japanese mecha design" yet it's often held in opposition.
Front Mission is not a mix of shit from the west. Wanzers are extremely nipponji.
Can you even name any robots from most of those series you prattled off
I already used it for MechWarrior: Online. I'll use it again!
Half of those series have incredibly memorable robots.
>I'm the Juggernaut!
I'll ask the question that has probably been asked a thousand times before.
What mecha games are good? Is Mech Warrior Online good? I'd really like to find something fast-paced in space like Gundam but I doubt that exists.
MWO is fun but you should look elsewhere if the criteria you described is what you really want in a mech game. It's slow and ponderous for the most part with a few moments of frantic combat especially for lights.
Gookshit isn't very western and from google, all that is is a picture. Not a design, just a gritty picture like a bunch of other pics in this thread of a warzone without any story, purpose or context
What, does Mugi-chan make you upset? Because I didn't say anything wrong and you didn't name any robots
Did you just contradict yourself twice within the same paragraph? You just said they're not vehicles, then immediately say they're combat vehicles. Almost immediate you say they have no purpose and then say "they're vehicles for blowing things up", that would constitute a purpose, no? The fuck you on about, son?
Or both in the case of Peace River and NuCoal designs.
I'd say Keith Thompson knows what's up when it comes to aesthetics.
One thing that seems to have been overlooked is what type of enemy would a mecha face. I'm sure if you're making a mech to fist fight 30 ft tall Triceratops people, you might get something a bit more unique.
Is the mecha antagonist important too?
even though i love this game the mech designs are pretty gross.
yeah i read it back in high school. was really good, imo. reverse trap, mecha porn, biological monsters, bat bombs and all that. i always thought the map was the weirdest drawing of the books.
I come here to post Metal Arms at you.
It is, but only to a point.
I don't understand why you people have to shit on other's tastes. As if one person's opinion is any more correct than another's. There's western designs I like and designs I don't like. There's Jap designs I like and one's I don't like. Many of these from the same series.
How can you convince yourself that someone who likes something you don't is somehow wrong?
>not drawing the Warhammer the way it's supposed to be drawn
Fuck Fasa and intellectual property laws, I do what I want
Unfortunately they didn't do any Clan designs that I know of, but Studio Nue did lay their hands on some IS designs.
I think you are right, but not in the way you think you are right. Those great mecha are great because they are in stories, but more so because ALL Japanese mecha are part of stories.
there is no medium for Western mecha to evolve in. the West does excellent androids, because they are a constant fixture in Sci Fi stories. We don't do robots taller than a man, so there is no market testing ideas and demanding more and more of mecha designers.
i agree, those blocky piles from Robotjox are famous because of the movie. if we had more mecha movies, we would have more famous mecha. But, that's because there would be more demand for well designed mecha.
also, for good mecha, can I point to ED-209 and half of the Transformers universe? because, a lot of those are Hasbro designs
They take all the beauty out of 40K dreadnaughts and turn them into a mass produced box of armor and guns.
You leave them on the battlefield when you're done... They're literally disposable mecha and that gives them a bit of misappropriated charm, like an ugly hunting dog.
It's not its fault. It already lost because it only took the name and general concept from the original work.
Beyond that, it wanted to be a boxing film, an robot film and a father/son bonding film all at once. It didn't spend enough time on any of the plots, leaving the movie with only one scene where it all comes together: The end of the Zeus fight. Pity no one was still paying attention.
Some of you may wonder why I spent this much time defending an mediocre movie, and that's because the bad exaggerates the issues of the good.
Ironically, the mistake of western mecha is TOO MUCH focus on the robot, not a lack thereof. We try to force the robots as the message rather than the vehicle for the message.
What's Battletech's theme? How is it reflected in the designs?
What's Pacific Rim's theme? How is it reflected in the designs?
The Imperial walkers of Star Wars aggressively sell the themes of the Empire: Hard edges, designed to hit hard, but not prepared to face resistance.
Say what you will about the Star War's prequels, the Rogers' design immediately tells you everything about the CIS. The SBD's later show the shift in the separatist agenda and tone.
Western mecha lack spirit, and that's not because they can't have it, but because no one remembers to give them any. That's why fucking no one remembers the details of Striker Eureka or Gipsy Danger, but, for their four minutes of screentime, Cherno Alpha is a nuclear reactor crossed with a Rock-em Sock-em and Typhoon is the three-armed, riced-out Honda.
Western Mecha will only start getting consistently good when we start with "What does this machine mean?" instead of "What does this machine resemble?" or "What kind of toys can we make of this machine?"
i just think that they fall too far into the box realm. little useful articulation points for aiming like in the design i posted, and the way they control is particularly horrible. you play on pc?
they're meant to be cumbersome and lumbering, with a slow turning cone of death, countered by needing your team mates to cover your flanks, the sledgehammer to the helldivers scalpel
>no one remembers the details of Striker Eureka or Gipsy Danger,
Gipsy is supposed to remind you of a cowboy, though I don't know how considering how plain it is.
The only problem is that the wings are the lamest jet design in history, and a flat dorito on top of it. I don't normally care about functionality, but that fucker simply can not move properly with those wings.
This. How yall gonna just dismiss the coolness of western comic robots and robot suits. Thats where all the mecha be.
okay how bout dethlok. Hes pretty gnarly lookin right
yeah it doesnt have faux political bs mixed in with 13 year old psychopaths driving giant death machines with energy fairy wings and hong kong knock off lightsabers.
Why even bother.
I said nothing of the sort.
Mecha also lacks faux political BS, terrible writing, terrible art, legitimate pandering issues, normie appeal, horrible inconsistency, and general industry issues.
I'll stick to AD2000. Big Two can stick it where the sun don't shine and you can too by the sound of it.
There was also Exo Squad. Which had a toy line and a cartoon that kinda felt like Battletech for little kids. Really enjoyable cartoon back in the day.
>I'll stick to AD2000. Big Two can stick it where the sun don't shine and you can too by the sound of it.
Wow....did you flip up the collar of your sweet leather jacket after saying that? Or at least elbow a juke box to turn it on?
Cus wow super cool guy huh.
Apparently custom made 'Earth Corps' figures from the short lived and under rated 'Inhumanoids' Cartoon.
You're the one going on about something or other and fairy wings.
AD2000 has, for years, published comics, from ABC Warriors to other series (e.g. Judge Dredd, Nemesis the Warlock, etc) which involve robots quite directly and more tastefully, I feel, than DC and Marvel. I don't know where or why you get this "cool guy" thing.
though the fact that they do this is what really makes me wanna get my hands on them.
hehe nah dude it was less the AD2000 thing and more the wording of the 'stick it where the sun don't shine' comment sounding like something the Fonz or fuckin travolta from grease would say.
Also was it AD2000 or 2000AD? Which by the way I loved the shit out of though I only read JD, Halo Jones, and one of my favs Strontium Dog.
You might be takin shit too seriously man.
How about Jovian Chronicles.
Sure DP9 says it's Gundam influence, but the Exo-armors bear little resemblance to the mobile suits. Like the Wyvren
Wait, are we talking about comics that make Marvel and DC look like bad jokes now? Because I am so in.
>Why are there no good western mecha designs?
They're rare, but they exist.
actually the design for the exosuits was pretty unique, at the time. and, all the designs are very distinct from one another. the toys have a hard time conveying the more dynamic look of the cartoon. particularly because they have to fit a figure inside
barring a few notable exceptions, mainstream comic designs are very unambitious and samey. everything is colored body paint, mostly stripes. any armor or protective pads will be very thin and stick as closely to the body, as possible. mechinery is always represented by striated metal tubing.
one of the most striking differences between japanese and western mecha designs are the boldly defined shapes. elements clearly exist in 3 dimensions. they have volume, even if they display no weight. Also, the details are very large and blocky, which makes the machine easy to recognize.
I always notice that western mecha have tons of tiny, thin details that stick very close to the body. for whatever reason, the japanese don't do this. maybe because their design aesthetic is rooted in children's toys, but they make their designs thick, chunky, and pop with contrasting shapes and planes
you can't really judge Super Robot designs on functionality. I mean, there is no reason, on earth, to have a lion head on your chest. and if you can think of some use, there is still no reason for a gigantic, flappy mane.
It just looks cool. the train pauldrons look cool. the wings look cool. that's all it has to do
I don't think it's a coincidence that toyetic intellectual properties produce strong designs. Star Wars is very toyetic and everyone recognizes battle droids, stormtroopers, imperial walkers, and whatnot.
But a lot of actual military vehicles have those thick, chunky shapes and smooth silhouettes unless they have some extra equipment mounted on top. Just look at the M1. Yea there's some shit mounted on top, usually a turret station or something, but most of it just large shapes that draw the eye. Same for fighter jets. There may be some "panel lining" but it's typically not excessive.
A lot of western mechs on the other hand, look like they're just greeble and junk chunks glued together with holes and shit drilled everywhere because, fuck it, why not.
I think the reality is just that real military vehicles are just as toyetic as the toyetic Japanese mechs, I mean, except for the the humanoid thing.
You mean colorful, not covered in shit and rust like all yer mature vidya?
If you ever get the chance, you should read Requiem Chevalier Vampire.
It's the only comic I ever bought hardcopies of.
It has that over-the-top tongue-in-cheek seriousness that the brits have mastered, plus a frog artist that can actually draw females
This is exactly whatI've been trying to get aross for months.
Western mecha just don't come as close to how things come together as Japanese mecha tend to IMO. I always feel like Western mecha come from a distant concept of how parts and components come together whereas eastern ones more commonly meld together like actual machines tend to.
There are some Western properties that do this but not many. I was thinking of trying to make a sort of "shape chart" or the like to convey this, using colors and the areas of different machines' bodies to indicate the design similarities and differences between existing machines and fictional ones, and to highlight said similarities and differences.
How many different ways can you design a giant robot. And those drums at the knees are missile pods.
To put it mildly, as mechs are a background piece of hardware in Western works...
...to have a mech and have the MC use it in an Eastern work is the equivalent of a character getting a lightsaber in the Star Wars movies. Meaning getting a lightsaber has an effect on who and how the story now gets told and focused on, character agency, etc.
Western mecha design in a nutshell. It's either this or boxes in Maya and hard edge sculpting in Zbrush.
I was always partial to the titanfall mechs despite not liking the game whatsoever.
Honestly if it ditched the fps shit and just focused on the mech fighting and expanded on its mechanics alone i think it mighta been better.
But it would probably have bombed.
Japanese mecha are, for the most part, supposed to be the focal point of the story. To make them more relateable and interesting, they take liberties as far as realism in order to extend character and charm, etc. Thus Japanese mecha tend to make characters out of the mechs themselves.
Thus you get more colours, vibrancy, more unrealistic things like Macross missiles and mecha moving on their own when they shouldn't, etc. You get ridiculously oversized shoulders, leg joints and poses at odd angles that wouldn't realistically support the body, and other unrealistic ranges of motion.
Western mecha more often than not are portrayed as vehicles. They serve a purpose, usually military, so that design is based more on practicality and what serves them best in a military confrontation.
Obviously drawing inspiration from modern industrial and military vehicles. It leads to the boxy overall design to try and stick close to the realistic requirements necessary to support weigh of shoulders, body, etc. while exploring the possibilities of walking machinery.
It's also often trying to display these requirements as they might be for present-day or near-future mecha to exist, using existing materials etc. and often factoring in economics like whether a mecha could be realistically designed, because those kinds of things can come under fire from a western audience.
In short, Japanese mecha eschews some restrictions for evocative imagery and personality, while western mecha aim to be plausible even if it may not be pretty.
Some people may appreciate the practical and mechanical design aspects of western mecha and not necessarily be looking for the most iconic look or vibrant silhouette.
Though I'm sure most people here would disagree on the point, neither of these is good or bad. It's just looking for different things in a design.
TL;DR: Japanese mecha aim for style and character, Western mecha aim for practicality and plausibility.
Lolwot. The Titans, if you isolated them, were the weakest part of the game. Titanfall's strong suit was the modernized arena-shooter style movement that gave players what Brink promised (but failed to deliver) and then some. The Titans only work at all because of the movement system makes the asymmetrical combat actually interesting enough to be viable. Titans on their own were boring as shit, which is why the Titan vs Titan game mode was empty since launch.
but anon, that's a dirty word for developers
The West prefers robots (giant or otherwise) to mecha. I'm interested to know why particularly. Maybe it's because without the restriction of a human pilot you can have much more interesting shapes?
Played through Wolfenstein: The New Order, the designs in that were pretty neat.
>op says western mecha is garbage
>western mechafags proceed to prove him right
Isn't that just a VOTOMS ripoff
>japanese designers are magically better
There's a lot less stuff being produced, so there will be fewer gems. The vast majority of Japanese designs are underwhelming at best, too. The fact that there's also some really good designs doesn't change this.
>everything that has any influence from any japanese mecha is just a knockoff
Every western mecha is going to be influenced by Japanese designs in some way or another, because that's what the vast majority of designs are from. It's not a matter of taking influence from the Japanese, it's a matter of taking influence from mecha in general, because it's all japanese. There's not going to be some huge "western style" that comes out of thin air.
Both of these are nothing but the fact that there is no major market for mecha designs in the west.
CEASE AND DESIST. superior american robot comin' through.
want a good western mech: jenner, jenner or motherfucking jenner.
The new Imperial Knights look riverside.
I like that.
The Loto is western?
I thought it was Gundam?
I thought Robotech had some pretty good designs
Zero went 1 to 1 with navy wildcats then 19:1 with hellcats.
>Ki-84, N1K, J2M, H8K, Ki67, Ki 100
Other than Ki-84, all were basically desperation one-offs throwing shit at a wall to see what would stick. Homare is one of the few engines that could claim to be less reliable than Jumo 004.
Literally slower than F4U-4 and F8F, climbs and turns like shit.
I find this much more visually interesting design than any gundam.
My bad, it was only 13:1 against the zero. All models of A6M were lumped in together.
Anon is retarded.
The Loto is also a prime example of "east v. west" overlap and how both sides are capable of doing things like each other, i.e. how in reality there's no real difference if you think about it, or else the differences are really subtle in some cases. For the Western end of that you can look at AirMech, SBT, The Big Guy and Rusty, Rob Schrab's work, etc.
Still better than 80% of the stuff ITT.
>Why are there no good western mecha designs?
It could be because you need to stop giving "eastern" designs a good blow for once.
Why don't we ever have draw- or designthreads? Like, do you remember the "Mech Engineer Quest" on /tg/? Admittedly that was battletech, but... I still remember it being decently entertaining to conk together a giant robutt according to everyone's different ideas, whims and wishes.
Pictured above is the design /tg/ wound up devising. It never reached its real end, however.
>battletechfags cry about furfags
>also image related to a commercial level
>also huge greasy middle-aged homos by and by
this bait, she is so very weak. I hope she is surrounded by her family in her final hours
hey man, i never said battletech was good, just that animal mechs were bad
>"What kind of toys can we make of this machine?"
Mecha in Japan have this problem now. Mechs are a niche market in the States, period. If you cant make a MAJOR profit on it it doesn't get funded. Battletech fly's on nostalgia but occasionally tries to evolve their style, see the Project Phoenix TRO, but the fans who play the game and buy their shit don't want that much change. Also using the Mechwarrior Online models as examples is a horrid idea. Their not really a good example of the median Battletech designs. See for details...
shame. It was pretty fuckin fun