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So what's /m/'s opinion of Kyoshi...
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So what's /m/'s opinion of Kyoshi Takegawa?
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>>10991984
He's the RG Lineart guy, yeah? I like his stuff.
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>>10991984
Much as I like Katoki, I much prefer Takegawa when it comes to "modernizing" old designs. Takegawa just seems to have a bit more respect for the original artist's vision of the suit.

Bandai seems to be going to him lately for the whole "redraw this and make it look more modern" thing they like to do with games and MSV.
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is there a large scan of the Zeon Pale Rider?
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>>10992046
that thing looks pretty awesome
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>>10992100
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>>10992154
hey thanks a bunch
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I like him when he draws. His 3d models are shit.
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Anymore scans? These are great.
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>>10992750
agreed they look great

Is there one of Doven Wolf?
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>>10992750
Courtesy of balofo at mechatalk.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/d3xi3cmzcjoc92d/Mobile+Suit+Gundam+Side+Stories+Missing+Link+Archives.rar
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I like Kyoshi Takegawa for his takes on the MSX designs that Katoki redesigned. Like >>10992030 said, he tends to have a bit more respect for the original author's work, and his style lends better to early UC than Katoki's does. Katoki's at his best when he's designing something original, like a lot of the Unicorn designs. Takegawa's better at touching up older designs.
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>>10993087

Awesome! Thanks a lot!
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One thing I liked that Takegawa did in his Master Archives is that he sometimes takes different versions of a suit and puts them together as the same suit during different periods of time throughout it's service.

For example, the RX-78-2 original TV colors are the Gundam at Side 7 through the earth arc, the movie colors are after it arrives at Jaburo throughout Solomon, and Ver. Katoki is the Gundam after the post-Solomon magnetic coating upgrade, with the RX-78-3 sharing those proportions. Throughout all these versions, if you look closely, you can see the Gundam maintains the same basic frame. It was a neat tribute to the Gundam throughout the years in it's various incarnations that have shown up. Takegawa's clearly a humongous Gundam otaku.
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His Full Burnern is godly.
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>>10995165
Unf
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>>10993087
This art feels vaguely retro for some reason

Also I'm glad that it turned out Slave Wraith weren't defecting to Zeon at all, but rather it was largely the other way around
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>>10995200
I'm largely ignorant to the story of Missing Link. What happened?
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>>10995204
Basically, Slave Wraith is assigned by some shady Federation General named "Graves" to do his dirty work, such as hunting defectors and people disloyal to General Revil. It's eventually discovered that Graves is developing the RX-80 Pale Rider series of mobile suits to replace the Slave Wraiths as the Federation's personalized punitive weapon. Long story short is during a Slave Wraith engagement with Marchosias, a Zeon punitive battalion, a Pale Rider comes onto the scene and ends up attacking both sides (the HADES System is essentially an EXAM copycat, except much more unstable). The Pale Rider is fended off, but not before managing to gun down every single member of Marchosias save two or three lucky survivors, including the black Efreet Schneid pilot. After one or two more encounters with the Pale Rider, Marchosias arranges to work with Slave Wraith to uncover the truth behind the Pale Rider project.

This more or less ends in Graves and the Pale Rider development facility being destroyed by the Slave Wraith and a Pale Rider unit captured by whatever hardline Zeonists remain in Marchosias at that point (which isn't many).

There's also a little subplot in there where the leader of Slave Wraith tries to bond with his estranged son (who happens to be a Zeon a part of the Marchosias battalion, who also much later ends up getting caught up in some nonsensical Neo Zeon business).
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>>10995233
Should also note that Graves begins to suspect Slave Wraith's investigation into the Pale Rider project and sends Federation forces to kill/capture them in the event they know anything, so the only Federation forces you fight as Slave Wraith are those loyal to Graves. At that point Slave Wraith turns against Graves and moves to put a stop to the Pale Rider project.
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>>10995243
Aaand one member of Slave Wraith defects to Zeon for an unspecified reason, and end sup piloting the Efreet Schneid seen in Gundam Unicorn Episode 4
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>>10995249
Another point about Slave Wraith's being a penal squad is that they're also assigned suicide missions deep behind enemy lines
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>>10995283
As for the Pale Rider itself, it's primarily meant to be the executioner of Grave's pro-Revil agenda, killing off defectors and general folks unloyal to Revil. If you don't like the man, you're marked for death by Graves and are greeted by a Pale Rider in very short order. This is more or less what instigates the first encounter with the Pale Rider - Slave Wraith doesn't exactly respect Revil or the hard-on Graves has for him and are often quite vocal about it
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>>10995233
>>10995243
>>10995283
>>10995324
That's kinda neat. I always kinda liked the concept of small troop formations getting caught up in the shenanigans of shady superiors.

>>10995249
But them why is he attacking Torrington? He's got nothing against the Federation at large. Why does he want to participate in their stupid suicide mission?

>>10994711
He did something similar for the Zeta.
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>>10995324
In Graves's defense, why would you not like the man? He's a competent officer with a high rank and who isn't a psychopath. It takes until fucking Victory Gundam before we see someone of his caliber.
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>>10995405
>He's got nothing against the Federation at large.

He apparently does... I'm just not sure what the hell that is. My guess is that he became asspained about being treated like a dog, and to further add salt to the wound, a dying dog in being hunted by his own forces, and supposedly ends up defecting to the Zeon Remnants for some promised higher purpose in life

>>10995409
Well, you have to remember that these guys are essentially convicts on a very fine leash - their type doesn't necessarily look kindly to authority figures
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>>10995409
I think a lot of the people Slave Wraith goes after are people that dislike Revil for how much influence he has over the military's operations during the OYW (he pretty much leads the entirety of the Federation,) so the punitive battalion is sent in kill them and prevent separatist movements from emerging during wartime.

Then the Pale Rider gets sent after them, because the Slave Wraith are convicts forced to participate in suicide missions for reduced sentences or pardons, so it's not hard to see why they wouldn't be too fond of Revil.
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>>10995405
Holy shit. Are there any more art books or master archives by this guy? His stuff's golden, though I feel his posing could be a little less stiff.
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>>10995427
>>10995429
Ah, right, forgot about the penal squad thing.

Still, isn't it kind of logical for the commander-in-chief to have, y'know, command over everything?
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>>10995405
>Wave-Shooter
This guy is okay.
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>>10995432
He made a RX-78 one, a MSZ-006 one, and a GP01 one as well.

I just wish he went to more effort to color in things more often; they look godly when he does.
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>>10995566
>10995566
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>>10995573
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>>10995576
He's also the guy doing the Z Gundam DeFine Lineart, if you're into that manga.
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>>10995566
Don't forget glorious GM Master Archive
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>>10991984
This is sick. It's like an Alex GM.
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>>10995672
It's like... It's a GM, but it's not hideous like a GM. Is that some sort of magic?

>>10995709
My first thought as well. That's probably because of the wrist-mounted weaponry, which was the most notable feature of the Alex.

Regardless of what inspired the Pale Rider, that design is sex.
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>>10995731
>It's a GM but it's not hideous like a GM

It's because of the head. The camera to be precise. The standard GM design has a camera that looks derpy as fuck. Compare with a Quel or GM Sniper II. Much cooler.
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>>10995731
Yeah, also look at those boosters/armor on the legs. They look like the same ones on the Alex.
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>>10995748
Yeah. I did a side-by-side comparison, and the Alex and the Pale Rider have extremely similar structures. Definitely a sexy GM version of the Alex. Now the real question is, why isn't it in Gundam games?

>>10995747
To be fair, you have to slap on a lot of panel lining and edges on the RGM for me to even remotely like it. If that were a colored version, I'd probably still hate it. As you mentioned, I think it's the head that really draws so much rage from me. That smoothed, Q-Ball-with-a-visor look is just horrid.
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>>10995249
FUCK I FORGOT THAT THAT THING WAS IN UNICORN NOW IT MAKES SENSE

>unspecified reason

I did a summary of the entire story, check the archives.
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Also

>>10995427
>He apparently does... I'm just not sure what the hell that is. My guess is that he became asspained about being treated like a dog, and to further add salt to the wound, a dying dog in being hunted by his own forces, and supposedly ends up defecting to the Zeon Remnants for some promised higher purpose in life

no
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>>10995926
>>10995931
Yeah, I just read up on it now

So he fucking joins Zeon out of MUH IDEALS?
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>>10995672
>>10995731
Wow, his GM is really interesting to look at. All the lines and angles are super sharp and clean, and it definitely looks like a military hardware. Yet this Kyoshi guy still managed to capture that sort of timid and uncertain look the original GM design had. That look that make you wonder if it should be fighting on the battlefield instead of being a library clerk somewhere.
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>>10993107
Probably the best thing about Kyoshi's work over Katoki's is that his decals are relatively minimalistic and unobtrusive
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>>10996410
Yeah, Takegawa puts emphasis on linearity between designs, so that the reader can see how they relate to each other,

It also has the benefit of being much easier to draw.

I also noticed he mostly does Federation/AEUG stuff. Is Takegawa a big Feddie-fag?
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>>10996410
>Yet this Kyoshi guy still managed to capture that sort of timid and uncertain look the original GM design had. That look that make you wonder if it should be fighting on the battlefield instead of being a library clerk somewhere.
Nigga, there ain't nothing timid-looking about GMs.

They're an army of Master Chiefs in bright, confident colors. They know they can slap Zeon's shit and they wanna look fab doing it.
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>>10996623
Original GM =/= GM Sniper. Only the latter has the badass visor look down pat.
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>>10996623
That's GM Sniper II Custom, aka GM's younger brother who's trained from day one to be a killer.

This however, is not the face of a killer. This is a guy who's been dragged out of civilian life, given the best but rushed training the military could put together and told that he may never come back from even the first battle he's about to go into.

>>10996585
The more I look at his stuff, the more impressed I am. It's like he gets both the mechanical and the personality sides of a the MSs he draw. You can see that while the GM and GM II are both kinda uncertain looking, GM III with the addition of those side vents and a slightly lower and sharply angled visor looks like it's still the same character, but has been hardened and knows what he needs to do.
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>>10996746

I've never seen anyone humanize a normal Mobile Suit this hard.
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>>10996840
They did likewise humanize for PacRim.
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>>10996585
Kinda strange to know that GM II is actually a notably better suit than the Gundam (except armor), yet by 0087 the GM II is considered an ancient piece of junk.
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>>10997092

Not really, at least, not in universe. The Hyaku Shiki is considered out-dated by the end of the show and that was built during the actual show itself - the Zeta too, I think.
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>>10997100
Yeah but the Hyaku Shiki was pretty much a copy of the Mk. II with binders thrown on the back
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>>10997092
Anything OYW in the Zeta era was outdated. They said that going out into battle with that Gelgoog they salvaged was pretty much suicide, and Gelgoog is roughly equal to the RX-78-2.

>>10997100
Hyaku Shiki's outdated because it largely has the same capabilities as the Mark II. They are very similar going by performance specs.

Zeta isn't really outdated, but it's not quite the machine it was when it came out. Still a match for enemy MS, but yeah.. it's just a match, no longer superior.
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>>10997111
>>10997115

The point is that technology moves very fast during wars in UC. It happened in the original show as well, with the RX-78-2 starting off the show as the most awesome shit ever and ending up as outdated and actually inferior to mook suits like the Gelgoog on the other side. Same thing in Victory. Not sure about ZZ, but I would assume so.
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>>10997144
By the end of ZZ Axis was pumping out rather powerful suits like the Doven Wolf. They didn't match up with the ZZ in terms of sheer firepower but they were much more powerful than any mass-produced suit which had been fielded previously and were more versatile.
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>>10997168
Axis was pumping out a lot of absurdly powerful suits by the end of ZZ. Some could even match up in Unicorn. The only reason the EF didn't have their shit slapped to the Moon and back was because Neo Zeon had to go and murder itself.
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>>10997092
The GM II is basically a run of the mill OYW suit that's been slightly modernized to help it keep up. There are GM variants from the OYW that outclass it in terms of raw performance
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I forgot but what did they say the Hades system does again? I was really stoked about this suit then I heard about the special snowflake AI.
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>>10997233
"An acronym for HYPER ANIMOSITY DETECT ESTIMATE SYSTEM. It is a controversial system which seems to be similar to the earlier developed EXAM System. The HADES was created by the Augusta Newtype Lab with the data they requested from Chlust Moses regarding the EXAM system. As with the EXAM system, the HADES provides a temporary increase in equipped mobile suit's performance along with increased reaction times to the pilot. This strengthening of the pilot's abilities is done by forcibly increasing and speeding up the neurotransmissions in the pilot's brain. This process however leads to the side effect of gradual memory loss. Akin to the EXAM system's aggression and tendency to go berserk, the HADES can activate without the pilot's consent when it detects a perceived threat, regardless of it being an ally or foe. When under the influence of the system, the mobile suit's visor glows red and all of its exhaust vents glow yellow."
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>>10997203
I think you're overstating the size of the Neo-Zeon army. There weren't that many doven wolfs in the final battle. Same goes for MP qubeleys. Though they're seemingly designated as MP suits, they were more like limited MP. And one lucky shot from a beam weapon could still wreck their shit
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>>10997244
Huh? I didn't say anything about Neo Zeon
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>>10997244

He isn't at all. A single Elmeth possed a serious threat to the Federation Fleet during the One Year War, and that thing only had 12 funnels. Meanwhile, the combined tally of all Axis suits by the end of the Neo Zeon conflict comes up to a minimum of 360 funnels, there really is no way in early UC to defend a fleet against that sort of thing. Combined with the range of the Doven Wolf's Mega Cannons, I'd be willing to wager the EFF forces would have taken horrific casualties before their suits were even close enough to get off a shot.

Even before those were introduced, the EF was already considering surrender to Neo Zeon.
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>>10997266
What? The Elmeth destroyed a few ships that weren't even on combat alert from long range. Part of the reason why it was so effective was because they literally no idea such a thing even existed. That's why they called it the Ghost of Solomon.

Funnels, as far as we've seen, are shorter range and they're not quite as powerful as the bits (considering bits destroyed ships in just one shot to the extremities of a ship's hull). We saw in Unicorn that the Kshatriya's funnels had a hard time even getting through the Stark Jegan's extra armor, or keeping up with a fast moving object for that matter, and the Kshatriya is a pretty high end suit with a reactor like 8x stronger than Qubeley Mk. II's.

Also, we've had several indication that the feddies generally had better pilots to offer. OYW, final battle at ABQ, 1/3 of their fleet is wiped out and they were technologically outmatched by gelgoogs, they still forced Zeon into a cease fire and according to Unicorn Zeon prostrated themselves before the federation. CCA, Londo Bell's forces are significantly outmatched and using inferior suits (Geara Doga > Jegan) yet they were at worst matching the Zeon forces, at best winning.

The EFF would have certainly won a war with just numerical superiority. There's also the fact that the GM III is faster than suits like the Qubeleys or Doven Wolfs on paper, so swarming tactics would work well enough to overwhelm the Neo-Zeon forces.
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>>10997266
>Even before those were introduced, the EF was already considering surrender to Neo Zeon.
They were only going to appease Haman's demands. This was because the top officials of the government were corrupt and lazy. They didn't care what Haman did as long as they got to leave lavish lives. They didn't even bat an eye when Haman murdered everyone in Dublin, hell, they even approved of it, calling it "population control". It had little to do with the fighting power of the military
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>>10997331

It's also been shown that your average pilot is absolutely helpless against funnels, and aren't even able to hit them, but can, in turn, one shot anything the Federation is mass producing at this point.

> Also, we've had several indication that the feddies generally had better pilots to offer. OYW, final battle at ABQ, 1/3 of their fleet is wiped out and they were technologically outmatched by gelgoogs, they still forced Zeon into a cease fire and according to Unicorn Zeon prostrated themselves before the federation. CCA, Londo Bell's forces are significantly outmatched and using inferior suits (Geara Doga > Jegan) yet they were at worst matching the Zeon forces, at best winning.

The EFF would have certainly won a war with just numerical superiority. There's also the fact that the GM III is faster than suits like the Qubeleys or Doven Wolfs on paper, so swarming tactics would work well enough to overwhelm the Neo-Zeon forces.

Don't you remember that whole Gryps Conflict that happened just before the Neo Zeon War ? The one that heavily depleted the Federation Fleet, and allowed Neo Zeon to take the upper hand ? AT this point, the Federation is severely lacking in military strength, as can be seen throughout ZZ Gundam. Furthermore, the Federation would be no where near replacing all of their suits with GM IIIs, even in Gundam Unicorn, it can very clearly be seen that GM IIs are Nemos are still in use, implying that GM IIIs had never fully succeeded them. Furthermore, Neo Zeon's other mass produced models, such as Dreissen, and Gallus J, fearture higher base performance then GM III.
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>>10997351

Oh, and you think they would have cared what Haman's demands were if they could simply swat her away like an insect ? The Gryps Conflict had just depleted their military force.
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>>10997331

> The Elmeth destroyed a few ships that weren't even on combat alert from long range. Part of the reason why it was so effective was because they literally no idea such a thing even existed. That's why they called it the Ghost of Solomon.

The official englisg Gundaminfo site says it could have lead to Zeon's victory in the space theatre.
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>>10997353
>Don't you remember that whole Gryps Conflict that happened just before the Neo Zeon War ? The one that heavily depleted the Federation Fleet, and allowed Neo Zeon to take the upper hand ? AT this point, the Federation is severely lacking in military strength, as can be seen throughout ZZ Gundam. Furthermore, the Federation would be no where near replacing all of their suits with GM IIIs, even in Gundam Unicorn, it can very clearly be seen that GM IIs are Nemos are still in use, implying that GM IIIs had never fully succeeded them. Furthermore, Neo Zeon's other mass produced models, such as Dreissen, and Gallus J, fearture higher base performance then GM III.

The Gryps conflict barely even affected the main federation branch. It was a war fought between the forces of AEUG & Karaba, Titans (an autonomous off shoot of the EFF), and Axis forces. The only way the federation would be weakened would be relatively, since they lost a powerful organization that had the freedom to move without bureaucracy. Overall the primary forces were pretty much shielded from the incident. Not to mention, following the Gryps conflict they reabsorbed the AEUG members (as far as the show is concerned AEUG is pretty much composed of nothing but feddies) and some Titans, like the Byarlant Custom pilot.

The Federation still fielding Nemos and GM IIs isn't any indication that their military is weak. Especially since Torrington was considered a backwater base to begin with. Londo Bell got the brand new ReZels and later Jestas (a bunch of them in episode 7), while their flagship, the General Revil, was stocked with a horde of the latest Jegan variants and ReZel commander types. The primary fighting force of the federation has the latest stuff in Unicorn.
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>>10997381

> The Gryps conflict barely even affected the main federation branch.

That is one hundred percent false. The Titans were composed of Earth Federation forces member, and, for the most part, so was the AEUG. Every Salamis the AEUG used ? From the Federation. Their GM IIs ? From the Federation All that money, and material it took the Titans to field legions of wacky transformable units, and a colony laser ? From the Federation. The Titans also had a knack for sending standard Federation forces at the AEUG. There's also the matter of, as Zeta indicated, many EFF units hadn't even been given GM IIs or Hizacks yet, and were still using OYW suits.

> they reabsorbed the AEUG members (as far as the show is concerned AEUG is pretty much composed of nothing but feddies)

Which was very little, in ZZ, the AEUG consisted of the Argama, and La Vie En Rose

> and some Titans

Actually, ZZ states the Titans Remnants were consolidated into Neo Zeon.

> Londo Bell got the brand new ReZels and later Jestas (a bunch of them in episode 7), while their flagship, the General Revil, was stocked with a horde of the latest Jegan variants and ReZel commander types. The primary fighting force of the federation has the latest stuff in Unicorn.

Meanwhile, the glimpses we get at their normal forces indicate their still using 008X era weapons.
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>>10997381
The Gallus J wasn't even a MP model by Neo Zeon standards, it's listed as limited production. And as I said, you're overstating the numbers of Neo-Zeon's forces. How many Dreissen are actually seen in the show? Not very many. That's the nature of Neo-Zeon's MP suits in general. They say MP, when in reality they don't produce very many at all. The Qubeley MP is considered a MP suit, how many do we see fielded? Probably less than a dozen. Yea, that's Neo-Zeon's idea of "Mass produced". Run of the mill suits like the Dreissen wouldn't even put up much of a fight against greater numbers.

>>10997357
Dude, you're creating a strawman. No one ever said anything about swatting Neo-Zeon like an insect. Also, like I said, the top officials didn't care at all what Haman did, and implicitly approved of her actions even after she wiped out an entire city full of people. IIRC they even explicitly state that they could have warned everyone in the city in time, but decided not to.

>>10997371
Where are you seeing this on the gundaminfo site? But it doesn't matter. Like I said, the reason why the Elmeth was effective was because it was sniping ships from long range. ZZ funnels, for the most part, are shorter range and likely not as powerful
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>>10997255
Is that a piece of a Gelgoog shield?
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>>10997409

> How many Dreissen are actually seen in the show

By that same token, how many GM IIIs do we see in the show ?

> . Also, like I said, the top officials didn't care at all what Haman did

Do tell me, in what world does one with power give it up to someone who is not threat to said power ?

> Where are you seeing this on the gundaminfo site? But it doesn't matter.

In the mecha video about Elmeth.

> Like I said, the reason why the Elmeth was effective was because it was sniping ships from long range. ZZ funnels, for the most part, are shorter range and likely not as powerful

Like I said, most pilots can't even hit a single funnel, none the less a couple hundred. And, as could be seen in Zeta, the Quebeley's funnels could shoot clean through a Gundarium armored suit.
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>>10997422
No, similar curve but the shape doesn't match.

The size of the shield is similar to the Ground Gundam/GM shield (even has a pointed forward end), but with Zeon style curves.

>ZZ funnels, for the most part, are shorter range and likely not as powerful
Most funnels in general have a short range. However, range has to do with the overall shape of the weapon and whether or not it has a lengthened barrel with acceleration/convergence rings that serve to focus the beam for a shot that has longer range. Power is something else entirely.

Qubeley funnels are fairly weak and are supposed to overwhelm enemies through massed fire. They have an output of 1.3 MW. The Jagd Doga and Sazabi funnels on the other hand are much more capable, they have an output of 10.6 MW.

To put that into perspective, typical beam rifles are 2-4 MW, high end (long range and/or high power) beam rifles are 5+ MW.
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>>10997403
>That is one hundred percent false. The Titans were composed of Earth Federation forces member, and, for the most part, so was the AEUG. Every Salamis the AEUG used ? From the Federation. Their GM IIs ? From the Federation All that money, and material it took the Titans to field legions of wacky transformable units, and a colony laser ? From the Federation. The Titans also had a knack for sending standard Federation forces at the AEUG. There's also the matter of, as Zeta indicated, many EFF units hadn't even been given GM IIs or Hizacks yet, and were still using OYW suits.

No, it is not false. The Titans were comprised of both new and old members. Are you forgetting that people like Emma and Jerid were fresh pilots? In the show we already know that the Titans numbers are actually very limited. Same goes for the AEUG. It was a small conflict, as opposed to the OYW where the late space battles had hordes of off-scale ships launching hordes of MS.

Also, you're falsely assuming that everyone in both factions were completely wiped out, when there is no indication of this. How many Salamis did the AEUG field? Or GM IIs. Again, not very many especially since they didn't even use the GM IIs extensively before getting their own Nemos, custom built by AE for the AEUG. I'll say it again and again, you say legions, when in fact their numbers were probably in the few hundreds at most. And most Titans didn't even use those so called wacky transformable units. We only see those produced in limited numbers, even units like the Asshimer. Also, the Titans only throw the standard feddie forces at the AEUG a few times at large battles prior to the Dakar incident. Liike I said, you're completely overstating numbers. Also, the feddies already had units like the Galbaldy B which were up to date designs pretty much on par with the Hi-Zacks at the time. They also got Asshimars and so forth. You're using a deprecated base like Jaburo as a frame of reference.
>>
>>10997457

> You're using a deprecated base like Jaburo as a frame of reference.

It's shown at various other points in the show, for example, the Titans use Marine Zakus at Hong Kong, Act Zakus were used in North America, the Salamis Scirocco is aboard during his introduction were filled with Zaku Cannons, and a Zaku Scout was used by a Titan Pilot on the moon.

> In the show we already know that the Titans numbers are actually very limited. Same goes for the AEUG. It was a small conflict, as opposed to the OYW where the late space battles had hordes of off-scale ships launching hordes of MS.

What makes you think the EFF ever returns to it's OYW scale ? They are never shown to be able to deploy forces on that scale again. For much of ZZ, Neo Zeon is able to run rampant precisely because of how weakened the Federation is in UC 0088.

> And most Titans didn't even use those so called wacky transformable units. We only see those produced in limited numbers, even units like the Asshimer.

The Federation still had to float the bill for research, and development.

> Also, the feddies already had units like the Galbaldy B which were up to date designs pretty much on par with the Hi-Zacks at the time. They also got Asshimars and so forth.

Galbaldy Beta was just barely a step above GM II, so was Hizack, and Asshimar was only seen in numbers at the Federation capital. There's also the matter that, during ZZ, Neo Zeon was able to capture the Federations capital with three ships, which should give you an indication as to where they were at.
>>
>>10997457

> Also, you're falsely assuming that everyone in both factions were completely wiped out, when there is no indication of this.

As I already told you, the Titans had remnants, they were consolidated by Neo Zeon. As for the AEUG's remaining forces, if they had any, I'd love to have seen where they were during ZZ.

And, about those Asshimar's, funny thing, we never see the EFF use them in ZZ, but they were in the show...
>>
>>10997403
>Which was very little, in ZZ, the AEUG consisted of the Argama, and La Vie En Rose

Pretty certain most of the AEUG and Karaba had already dissolved back into the feddies by ZZ. Even Bright is recognized by the feddies, despite his autonomous position as an AEUG member.

>Meanwhile, the glimpses we get at their normal forces indicate their still using 008X era weapons.
What are you talking about? The General Revil is part of their normal EFSF. Besides that we know that the ECOAS are using custom Jegan variants and lotos (also new), we see the brand new Ankshas being used by the normal feddies as well.

In fact, CCA showed us that their EFSF fleets were using GM IIIs or Jegans. That's their normal fleets, which launch MS to back up Londo Bell during and after the final battle.

>>10997435
>By that same token, how many GM IIIs do we see in the show ?
You're trying to make a false equivalence comparison. The federation barely gets any screentime in ZZ whereas Neo-Zeon is a rather ubiquitous baddie.

>Do tell me, in what world does one with power give it up to someone who is not threat to said power ?
I don't know. But the show is pretty clear that the reason why the feddies don't do anything is because they both approve of Haman and/or they don't feel threatened by her motives. It's in the show.

>In the mecha video about Elmeth.
It says "might have". It's worthless speculation.

>>10997435
>Like I said, most pilots can't even hit a single funnel, none the less a couple hundred. And, as could be seen in Zeta, the Quebeley's funnels could shoot clean through a Gundarium armored suit.
They don't have to hit funnels. Just the bulky, slow Qubeleys, then the funnels will be dead as well. Why are you even talking about hitting funnels?
>>
>>10997493
They also became the New Decides apparently, or were reabsorbed back into the EFSF.


Anyone else find it hilarious that some Titans joined Neo Zeon? The faction in which they were formed to destroy?

Also after Z/ZZ the feds tried to get rid of as much Titans~esque or MS that were tied to the Titans as possible.
Which is apparently why Neo Zeon got a bunch of Marasais and whatnot.

Though even that's contradicted by Torrington randomly having a Byarlant Custom...
>>
>>10997516

> What are you talking about? The General Revil is part of their normal EFSF. Besides that we know that the ECOAS are using custom Jegan variants and lotos (also new), we see the brand new Ankshas being used by the normal feddies as well.

The General Revil was the flagship, ECOAS was a special forces unit, and the Ankshas were stationed aboard the Garuda, which were to defend large swaths of air space.

> In fact, CCA showed us that their EFSF fleets were using GM IIIs or Jegans. That's their normal fleets, which launch MS to back up Londo Bell during and after the final battle.

When did the EFF use Jegans ? The EFF Fleet at the end was using GM IIIs

> It says "might have". It's worthless speculation.

It indicates that it was well within the realm of possibility

> They don't have to hit funnels. Just the bulky, slow Qubeleys, then the funnels will be dead as well. Why are you even talking about hitting funnels?

Why would the Quebeleys put themselves into harms way when they could stay behind all of Neo Zeon's Dreissens, Bawoos, Ga Zwomns, and Gazas ?
>>
>>10997557

The New Decides, humorously enough, weren't actually Titans remnants, but rather, some pro Titan EFF forces.
>>
>>10997480
>It's shown at various other points in the show, for example, the Titans use Marine Zakus at Hong Kong, Act Zakus were used in North America, the Salamis Scirocco is aboard during his introduction were filled with Zaku Cannons, and a Zaku Scout was used by a Titan Pilot on the moon.
I said
>like
Hong Kong doesn't even have any sort of main EFF base IIRC. It's mostly a civilian area. And the use of a Marine Zaku is understandable, since the development and production of underwater MS apparently stopped until Axis made some very terrible Capules. Where exactly in North America do they use Act Zakus? I only recall seeing EFF color Hi-Zacks at places like Kennedy. Storage =/= usage. We see suits in Unicorn that go unused despite being stored on ships or bases. And a single Zaku scout?

>>10997480
>What makes you think the EFF ever returns to it's OYW scale ? They are never shown to be able to deploy forces on that scale again. For much of ZZ, Neo Zeon is able to run rampant precisely because of how weakened the Federation is in UC 0088.
We never see another conflict on the scale of the OYW until the federation is a walking corpse in Victory. Neo-Zeon? Small beans. Char's Neo-Zeon? Same deal. Crossbone Vanguard? The entire conflict is settled in what must be a matter of days or something. They only ever occupy one colony IIRC, as opposed to something like the original Zeon, which was comprised of Side 3.

That said, we see a fleet of GM IIIs in CCA at end, and another one launching Jegans, saying they need to back up Londo Bell earlier.

>The Federation still had to float the bill for research, and development.
True, but you're overstating the significance. Especially since the Titans outsourced a lot development to what I assume was the most cost effective option. I mean, they had an in-house development team and people like Scirocco, but relied mostly on AE.
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>>10997588

> Where exactly in North America do they use Act Zakus?

They were transferred to the Garuda along with the Gaplant

> Storage =/= usage.

The Dialog in the scene indicates that they still used them

> Neo-Zeon? Small beans

You don't give into the demands of a group if they're "small beans". You don't hand over population centers of billions to a group that is "small beans".

> relied mostly on AE.

Untrue, the only AE developed unit used by the Titans in Zeta Gundam is the Marasai.
>>
>>10997493And, about those >Asshimar's, funny thing, we never see the EFF use them in ZZ, but they were in the show...

...and in space, no less. Neo Zeon must have some crazy talented engineers jf they can modify a mobile suit built specifically for use in Earth's Atmosphere for space use.
>>
>>10997480
>Galbaldy Beta was just barely a step above GM II, so was Hizack, and Asshimar was only seen in numbers at the Federation capital. There's also the matter that, during ZZ, Neo Zeon was able to capture the Federations capital with three ships, which should give you an indication as to where they were at.

What's your point? At that time the HiZack was new and the main feddies already had a suit on par with it. And of course we mainly see the Asshimar at the Capital. The first time we see the Asshimar is after Jaburo, and Kilimanjaro is a Titans base, so we won't see feddie forces there. Dakar is the last reasonable place to see them, after that the show moves into space.

You're forgetting that the federation pretty much let Haman in so they could have a charity ball in her honor. Like I said, doesn't matter why or for what reason, the officials were pretty much on her side anyway. I don't even understand what you're trying to argue against. Haman never has to use force to get anything she wants from them, they almost act like they want Haman to rule, and are ready to give her everything she wants before she even demands it. The federation officials aren't even impressed when she does something devastating though. They treat the colony drop on Dublin was Keikaku doori.

In fact, I'm watching ZZ right now. And at the gala Glemmy talks about capturing the Helium fleet with some posh feddies and they literally say "Oh how scary. So young and fierce." "He seems very dependable."

>>10997493
Probably with the feddies, who did jack all the entire show. You watched the show correct? Then you know the federation is basically absent from the show. Also, seeing a few Titan suits with Neo Zeon is like saying that the Zeon military was absorbed by the feddies because the feddies captured some suits. Those suits are probably just captured somewhere. In fact, I think it's just a cameo. The Asshimar is a suit specially made for Earth, how the hell is it even in space?
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>>10997629

Keep in mind, such things are often made up after the fact.
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>>10997646

> You watched the show correct?
> Those suits are probably just captured somewhere.


I did watch the show, did you ? There was a scene, in which one of Haman's officers inform her that they have "consolidated the Titans remnants"
>>
>>10997604
>Untrue, the only AE developed unit used by the Titans in Zeta Gundam is the Marasai.

Actually, the Hizack was retconned into being an Anaheim machine.
>>
>>10997564
>The General Revil was the flagship, ECOAS was a special forces unit, and the Ankshas were stationed aboard the Garuda, which were to defend large swaths of air space.

They're all still part of the normal federation military man. Londo Bell is special because it's an autonomous unit similar to the Titans.

>>10997564
>When did the EFF use Jegans ? The EFF Fleet at the end was using GM IIIs
We see them launch on sleds after Chan is killed by Hathaway. They're not Londo Bell since the captain of one of the ships says "Londo Bell needs support," and so forth. What else could they be but normal feddies?

You know, if anything this is a good indication that the Federation might have stopped giving their ground forces a lot of funding. After all, the point of the Titans was to stop spacenoid rebellions. In all these shows it seems like the EFSF is the one that gets a lot of the latest stuff.

>> It says "might have". It's worthless speculation.
>It indicates that it was well within the realm of possibility
It's also in the realm of possibility that everyone at Zeon got diarrhea at the final battle and surrendered without fighting at all. It already has the precondition that Amuro not be a newtype, and even then it only says "might". It's basically admitting that even if Amuro was an oldtype, the elmeth still might have lost. In which case I don't see why some feddie ace couldn't shoot down the elmeth as well.


>Why would the Quebeleys put themselves into harms way when they could stay behind all of Neo Zeon's Dreissens, Bawoos, Ga Zwomns, and Gazas ?
What happens when all of those are overwhelmed? I'm telling you, Neo-Zeon's idea of MP is not very significant. For all you know the combined Neo-Zeon forces, Haman and Glemmy's factions might have been like a hundred MS, including their super suits. Also, the majority of Neo-Zeon suits don't have much in the way of defense, while GM IIIs apparently carry ABC gundarium-made shields.
>>
>>10997695

> For all you know the combined Neo-Zeon forces, Haman and Glemmy's factions might have been like a hundred MS, including their super suits

Then the Federation most certainly wouldn't be giving into Haman's demands

> lso, the majority of Neo-Zeon suits don't have much in the way of defense, while GM IIIs apparently carry ABC gundarium-made shields.

Completely untrue. almost every Neo Zeon produced suit is made of Gundarium Alloy.
>>
>>10997604
>They were transferred to the Garuda along with the Gaplant
Were they actually used? If not...

>The Dialog in the scene indicates that they still used them
I can't seem to find the Salamis. Can you give me the episode and time?

>>10997604
>You don't give into the demands of a group if they're "small beans". You don't hand over population centers of billions to a group that is "small beans".
Really? They handed the Titans, a small autonomous force, the power to do anything they liked at will and tons of cash. Neo-Zeon, as far as we're shown, is a small force. So yes, they're small beans.

>>10997604
>Untrue, the only AE developed unit used by the Titans in Zeta Gundam is the Marasai.
I guess you're right. The Titans, it would seem, piggybacked a lot off of the federation's own development, in which case it's questionable how much stuff was actually built specifically for Titans, and not just as the federation's development of new weapons.

>>10997667
Refer it to me please.
>>
>>10997709
>Then the Federation most certainly wouldn't be giving into Haman's demands
Unless they want to. In which case they would give into Haman's demands. You've developed a head canon that somehow the federation dislike or had a reason to oppose Haman, when in fact the officials very much liked Neo-Zeon as indicated by the meeting between the officials and Bright & Judau, and the gala at Dakar.

>>10997709
>Completely untrue. almost every Neo Zeon produced suit is made of Gundarium Alloy.
No, it's very true. Like you said previously, beam goes through even Gundarium easily. A shield with ABC is going to last longer. Not to mention, a carried shield is less volatile or critical than the body, meaning it can easily be destroyed or sacrificed without the MS taking damage.
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>>10997854
Oh shit, is that a scratch build?
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>>10997918
Limited edition metallic color version that came with the collectors edition of the game. Probably won't be long until a regular release is announced.
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>>10997854
The design looks terrible. The overdesigned look clashes with the simplicity of the GM look. And its limbs look strangely thin at the upper arm, forearm, and the thighs
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>>10997450
>The Jagd Doga and Sazabi funnels on the other hand are much more capable, they have an output of 10.6 MW.

0_o
What's the source on that?!?
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>>10995249
>citation needed
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>>10997557
>Anyone else find it hilarious that some Titans joined Neo Zeon? The faction in which they were formed to destroy?

That was the public face of the Titans. I can only guess that the first generation members (crew of the Albion, for example), joined under the pretense of hunting Zeon remnants, whereas most others joined out of some sense of Earthnoid patriotism
>>
>>10998008
>>
>>10997962
MAHQ.
>>
>>10998241
On that note
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13577

Interesting discussion on power ratings. tl;dr
>power rating for weapons is actually input
>weapons that use e-cap (or otherwise pre-compressed particles) have 4x the power efficiency compared to non-compressed weapons. I find it strange that the funnels would be stronger than the shotrifle
>>
>>10997962
Maybe that output is for better operating time and not the power that goes into each shot (example; a mobile suit with a lot of built-in beam weapons would have a reactor to properly handle them.) Power outputs in Gundam are usually dictated according to power requirements. It's possible that the Quebely's funnels were just inefficient in terms of overall operational time and had to recharge often, whereas we see Sazabi's funnels operate for quite long periods and shoot often without having to recharge.
>>
Post more of these sexy GM's.
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>>10998281
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>>10998541
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>>10998580
>RGM-79[G]'s Skinny legs.
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>>10998541
mmmmmmmm
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>>10998611
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>>10998997
>>
>>10995432
He's a student of Katoki, using that same stance with arms pointing down.
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>>10998541
>knee socks GMs

My penis is pleased.
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>>10998602
Really liking the [G] and 79G. His rendering of the heads are exquisite!
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>>10999019
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>>10999799
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>>10999807
>>
>>10998281
"Sexy jim"

sounds like a male stripper
>>
>>
>>11001444
>>
>>11001448
>>
>>10997450
>The Jagd Doga and Sazabi funnels on the other hand are much more capable, they have an output of 10.6 MW

Yet has trouble with Stark Jegan armor.
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>>11001458
Fuckin' love Mudrock, though I personally prefer this one

Has a bit more character to it
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Muh Nemo
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>>11001476
Anti-beam coating is pretty good
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>>11001674
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>>11001906
I really dig his shiki.
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>>11001914
All of 'em.
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>>11001478
Katoki tends to take liberties when he redesigns things. Takegawa tries to stay as close to the original lineart as possible. It's just a difference in approach.
>>
>>11001906
If the butt thrusters were hip thrusters and the visor was green I would have a new favorite mobile suit.
>>
>>
>>11003294
>However, due to the Full Armor Gundam's massive increase in weight, it suffered a sharp drop in mobility which the new thrusters could not sufficiently compensate for. It was deemed that the loss in speed and maneuverability would be unacceptable and the Gundam Full Armor Type never left the development stages. The Gundam Full Armor Type would never be built, and only existed on paper. Although the FA-78-1 Gundam Full Armor Type was deemed to be a design failure while it was still in the planning phases, the Earth Federation continued to design new upgrades for the RX-78-2 Gundam under Full-Armor System and Weapon System (FSWS) program. However the plans for the unit would later be used as the basis of creating the FA-78-2 Heavy Gundam.

>The Full Armor Gundam is piloted at the Battle of A Baoa Qu by Lieutenant Heinz Baer, but was destroyed by Johnny Ridden in his MS-06R-2 Zaku II High Mobility Type. An image of the battle can be seen on the cover of the Master Grade FA-78-1 Full Armor Gundam model kit.

So was it built or wasn't it?
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>>11003719
>So was it built or wasn't it?
Pretty sure Sunrise doesn't even know.

It's MSV, though; so at least we know it's indisputably official.
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is there a name for these sort of things? do other Mecha designers have these? where can i find them?
>>
>>10997629
>...and in space, no less. Neo Zeon
> must have some crazy talented
> engineers jf they can modify a mobile
> suit built specifically for use in Earth's
> Atmosphere for space use.

That they do. They first did it in 0079 with the MS-09 Dom.
>>
>>11003719
>So was it built or wasn't it?
No, that battle is in reference to some shit manga written and illustrated by the hack Hasegawa. Also, it wasn't the Hi Mobility Type Zaku II, it was a modified version
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Full_Bullet_Zaku
This hideous thing

It destroys the FA Gundam with the heat axe on its head
>>
>>11004423
The Rick Dom wasn't just some one off that was converted. It went through a proper development process what with the prototype Zaku II from 08th MS team that tests the future Rick Dom equipment.
>>
>>11004254
>>11004254
what do you mean "These sort of things?
>>
>>11005126
>>
>>11005131
>>
>>11001906
GM Glocks.
>>
>>10998008
Play the fucking game. You have to beat every fucking story mode to find it out, but it happens.
>>
>>11004254
>these sort of things
Artbooks?
>>
>>11005163
Fuck you man. I watched all the videos of playthroughs and shit, and even after heavily critiquing it, I JUST FUCKING BOUGHT IT BECAUSE IT LOOKS FUN AS FUCK.

I love you and hate you.
>>
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>>11005126
>that color scheme
>that tacticool as fuck sniping visor
>those red sensors
>>
>>11005151
What caliber are those?
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>>11004440
>heat axe on its head

Shit, I didn't know that was a thing
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Am I the only one that thinks custom colors look weird on Federation suits we know there were only one of?

Same goes for Pixie, which has three color schemes in it's lore..
>>
>>11009734
Some lore is funny because even though there may have only been one suit, it could have had multiple pilots or there may have been other copies made for test or replacement purposes.
>>
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>>11008026
probobly 100mm.
>>
>>11009802

Huh, never knew magazines had those holes down the side so you can see how many bullets you have left at a glance. Is that a button below the last row? Or just a separate name plate or something?
>>
>>11009791
did you know that 3 EX-S gundam exist? same goes for ZZ and Nu
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>>11009828
it's just the company's logo, Glock
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>>11008222
>>11004440
>>11003719
You could say FAG was taken down when a Zaku gave him head
>>
>>10995573
my dick
>>
>>11009848
4 S Gundams existed, actually. We don't know if any of the others got the EX-S treatment.

But ZII and Pixie? Only one was built. And both were repainted 3 times if you take all their appearances in Side Stories into account.
>>
>>11010910
If they weren't specifically destroyed, it's the same unit in a new coat of paint because they're fair game.
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>>11010913
>4 units were made
>They're the same unit.
Huh? That's like saying Gundam Mk II's unit 1-3 are all the same unit. I was referring specifically to one offs.

Also the S Gundams didn't have pilot custom colors that we know of, just the colors given to them by the engineers.
>>
>>10997931

Hopefully with an Efreet as a counterpart.

And that MS-06G Zaku variant. I just love how it's a mixture of the Gouf and HiMo Zaku.
>>
>>11010944
I was referring to Pixie and ZII
>>
>>11010944
If the FIX figurations are any indication the rollout colors and the final colors (ala Sentinel) are slightly different.
>>
How many RX-78-2 deployed during OYW again? including thunderbolt
>>
>>11011096
RX-78-2 (of which there were three, but two of them were damaged at Side 7 and their parts were collectively used to make the RX-78-3,) and FA-78-2 was built on an RX-78-2 frame.
>>
>>11010910
>4 S Gundams existed, actually.

FOUR? I only know of three: the red//blue one (Roots' machine(, the red one, and the blue one. What's the fourth one?
>>
>>11011468
Dunno, but MAHQ's descriptions claims 4 prototypes were completed. God knows what the others were doing.

I like to imagine they were assigned to some AEUG/Karaba ace pilots during the First Neo Zeon war and then the surviving machine(s) were assigned to Londo Bell.
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>>11011642
>4 of best Gundam were built
Bueno.

>>11011057
Or they're just different units altogether.
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>>10992005
I know that he worked for the Master File artbooks, but I'm not precisely sure if he's the same one who made the RGs' lineart.
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>>11003897
>Ford's face when he and his Gundam were more instrumental to the war's conclusion than the Amuro and the RX-78-2 were and he gets no credit.

Then again, at least he was allowed to keep serving, I guess.
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>>11016717
The artstyle and approach to Mechanical design are very close to Takegawa's usual formula, so I assume it is him, or at least, he works on it.
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>>10995233
>Basically, Slave Wraith is assigned by some shady Federation General named "Graves" to do his dirty work, such as hunting defectors and people disloyal to General Revil.

>>10995324
>As for the Pale Rider itself, it's primarily meant to be the executioner of Grave's pro-Revil agenda, killing off defectors and general folks unloyal to Revil. If you don't like the man, you're marked for death by Graves and are greeted by a Pale Rider in very short order. This is more or less what instigates the first encounter with the Pale Rider - Slave Wraith doesn't exactly respect Revil or the hard-on Graves has for him and are often quite vocal about it

Now this is odd. Every portrayal of General Revil shows him as the kind of leader that does not create fanatic madmen fighting in his name. What's the point of this? To me, it reeks of cleverly hidden Zeonwank.
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>>11016063
>Or they're just different units altogether.
They probably are, since we only know of one unit that saw action. The rest are probably in the rollout colors
>>
I think this would be the best place to post this thing I made a while ago: a conceptual design on which I took my favorite parts of the regular Zephyrantes and the Full Vernier upgrade. I will probably kitbash the RG kits to build it one day.

The name is to keep it with the floral theme of the Gundam Development Project. I picked "Lapageria" because of, well...
>>
>>11001914
Which one is this supposed to be? The zero shiki on the wiki doesn't have that backpack.
>>
I'd be very curious to see some of his own, original mecha designs. Is there a showcase of them anywhere?
>>
>>11017875
>not keeping the thruster shoulders

>>11017905
The Zero Shiki is supposed to evolve throughout it's service with newer and newer parts as time goes on. The Rick Dias looking one is the Shiki before they get the Mark II, the Mark II looking one is the one that they refine with Mk II-derived parts for use during the Jaburo Descent operation onwards (hence the removal of the binders in favor of thrusters, which makes more sense.) As time goes on, it's supposed to get the anti-beam coating and become the Hyaku Shiki.

I think, anyway. I'm paraphrasing something someone else told me.
>>
>>11017955
see>>11001918
>>11001914
>>10991984
>>10992154

Other than that, he mostly been hired on as the new Katoki.
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>>11001444
>>
>>11018359
But Define isn't getting Hyaku Shiki said Kitatsume.
>>
Looks like 1% of the units made are "mass produced". While most of the Mobile Suits are customs/prototypes which increases the maintenance costs. Sure all the manufacturers are dumb as fuck.
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>>11021194
...What? What are you referring to?
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>>11021244
>>
>>10995926
Can I get a link to the Missing Link summary thread?
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>>11021194
We can assume there have been huge advances in rapid prototyping and CAD, I guess. My favourite thing about all this lineart is that it emphasizes the frame similarities between mobile suit variants and reduces the differences, so variants now actually look like variants and not "we changed the entire mobile suit from top to bottom to fit in some extra widgets". Not saying the original designs are bad or anything, but it was a worthwhile effort to unify their look, in my opinion.
>>
So I've been wondering, what Gundam series actually have super prototype Gundams? I'm assuming Seed. People like to use Gundam as an example for super prototypes but while there are a lot of super customs and unique units running around, not many are actual prototypes.

Because the RX-78-2 was a completed product, not a prototype at all, same with the Mk 2 and the ZZ. The Victory was completed and mass-produced, The X was a mass-produced suit, and the Wing and Exia were unique, same with the Shining because Gundam Fight. AGE-1 2 and 3 weren't prototypes either.

Wing Zero counts, although it's sort of stretching "prototype" because it's complete, it just fucks with you because of the Zero System. The Double X also seemed to be completed.

So can I hear some examples? I'm genuinely curious.
>>
>>11021581
>wasn't even a prototype.
>I don't know what a prototype is.
1. a first, typical or preliminary model of something, especially a machine, from which other forms are developed or copied.

So yes, the Gundam is a prototype by definition. Technically that would also include, at the very least, the 0 Gundam from 00. I believe that the Tallgeese was also a prototype. ORB developed mass-produced versions of several Gundam suits in SEED.

I think the biggest offender of the label "prototype" comes from those big bad villain mobile suits. They always seem to be piloting powerful prototype suits. In the company's defense though, half the time they're stolen and the other half of the time they're secretly developing them for the money (and the concepts, which can legitimize them as prototypes).

On another note, you'd think that Anaheim could hire better security.
>>
>>11021648
>On another note, you'd think that Anaheim could hire better security.
That would interfere with their efforts to sell their tech to the opposing faction.

Isn't there some background lore implication that Operation Stardust was actually allowed and even subtly helped along by some higher ups like Jamitov and Cat Admiral so that they would have the support they needed to form the Titans?
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>>11021581
The RX-78 was a one-off prototype that was watered down for mass production. Yes, it's more capable than the GM. No, it doesn't seem to be a tech testbed so much as a fully operational combat unit. No, Japanese anime producers don't seem to understand the concept of a prototype.

>>11021648
AFAIK the only proper prototypes in Gundam are the innumerable Greek letter Gundams which are an attempt at simplifying and streamlining the transformation process for widespread adoption. Slightly diminished by the fact that they all seem to transform okay and the only reason they're unacceptable is this nebulous "performance" and "cost" and "maintenance issues" thing. One of my gripes with Gundam is that "performance" apparently keeps getting better and better with each generation, yet mobile suits move and shoot in more or less the same way from installment to installment.
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>>11021842
>watered down for mass production.
Exactly.

The V-Project was a prototype series for the Federation to produce their own line of superior mobile suits to fight the Principality of Zeon. The concepts and ideas that make up the V-Project suits led to many mass-production mobile suits based the suits developed.

Of course the V-Project had combat-ready mobile suits. They were developed to be combat ready, because they're war machines. You don't make a prototype weapon that can't shoot. You need real data of it working. So yeah, the Gundam was fully functional, because it needed to be.

The level of functionality a prototype has has literally no meaning whatsoever in determining whether or not it legitimately is a prototype
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>>11021866
>You don't make a prototype weapon that can't shoot.

Well, you can, assuming you're testing things that aren't the actual weapon systems. Like, the first propulsion prototype might not even have had arms. The first armour prototype might not have been equipped with thrusters. The first beam weaponry prototype would just have been a rifle sans housing attached to a reactor of approximately the right shape and size. The final stage where they produced eight or however many completed models with all systems integrated might not be considered a prototype at all, really. If they hadn't arbitrarily decided to water down the GMs then the Gundam would have been the second production model. So I get where he's coming from, a little. There's nothing really unfinished about the Gundam, all its systems are working in tip-top shape. The only thing that's missing is the "movement data" (AMBAC, I imagine) which the Gundam is designed to amass and refine. The more I think about it, the more I agree that technically the Gundam should be considered an early production unit. There's not much experimental about the RX-78 series.
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>>11021842

I have no idea if this is true, but I've actually read that "super prototypes" have been made, and are usually for the purpose of impressing potential buyers/investors.
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>>11021866
>>11021914
I have a theory that they always intended to MP the Gundam, and the RX-78-2 was just the initial model, i.e. the YF-22 being the prototype Raptor. So the MP gundam would be the RGM-78

But when they decided it was too expensive they came up with a derivative design, the GM, which they also prototyped at Jaburo before mass producing them. That way the only thing the GMs really needed from the Gundam was macro and learned behaviors from the Gundam's learning computer - after being adjusted for the GMs - very high level things, rather than equipment and operational data (like balancing in different environments).

So in other words, the GM isn't really a mass produced Gundam. The GM is a new design that had its own complete development cycle. It's just that the initial design was derived from the Gundam to abridge time and costs. Hence, the new model designation of 79.
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>>11005126
Anyone have a link for scans of Mobile Suit Gundam: The Blazing Shadow?
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>>11022256
No, and can you read Japanese? Because it's a light novel.
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