What's the best cockpit you've ever seen for a mecha?

>>10914593

>Practically

Gasaraki, Patlabor

>aesthetically

Evangelion, simply for how bizarre it is.

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>>10914593

Cockpits are one of the few things I will admit where 3D > 2D

>>10914593
I'm struggling to find some good shots, but the Type 17 cockpit in particular from Knights of Sidonia anime is a thing of beauty.

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It's happening.

>>10914752
New we just need to slap some cameras on and we GitS now

Turn A has the best placed cockpit. Only a pervert would aim at it intentionally.

>>10914765
Now think of how sex-starved some soldiers must be after days of patrolling. There's a reason why there's alot of rape whenever soldiers are allowed to do their thing.

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>>10914593
The LAS cockpit/escape craft/flying plate from AKB0048.

>>10914912
>Cockpit
>Flying craft with its own power
>Also a platform to perform on
I love Kawamori and his multifunction designs.

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I'm getting to Dragonar but I have a feeling that I'm gonna really dig this when I see it.

>>10914863
Does being sex-starved lead to shooting enemy mechs in the groin?

>>10914765

Unless of course you know where the cockpit, in which case, you'd kind of be retarded to not aim for it. Or if you've been trained by a traditional military, since as far as I'm aware they tend to teach soldiers to aim for the center of mass when firing, and the center of mass of the Turn-A is the stomach/groin-pit. It's cockpit is located there for stability purposes.

>>10914942
>In the grim future where we fight wars with giant mecha teabagging the remains of defeated enemy units is a common practice.

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>>10915074

> tfw your mech includes a pair of giant rubber testicles just to embarrass and frustrate your enemy

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>Practically

Patlabor, Garasaki

>aesthetically

Pacific Rim

A chair, a joystick at each side, and a bunch of monitors and various buttons and switches surrounding them. Gimme that, and I'm happy.

As much as I love G-Gundam, I've never been into the "mecha copies your movements" style of controls.

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>>10914937
>Cutting out ???

>>10914593
Gunbuster with its motion controls and 360 panaromic view. alternatively it had the worst with the first mechs they sortied in.

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Its spacious and you don't need a pilot suit.

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>>10917366

>People who think PatLabor had good cockpits

Are you fucking kidding me?

Do you even remember what they looked like?

They were generic as fuck, there was nothing original about them.

>>10917317
Would have posted if I had it.

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someone was gonna post it

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>>10917853
pretty sure it was in part because of being able to sit inside or outside

and the manipulators

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I love my Gundam, but Evangelion cockpit.

Especially with Mari changing HUD colours. That Rainmeter/ricing vibe wins me over. Can't find the frame for pic related.

>>10917317

I don't get it

Shifting from park to 3rd gear?

>>10914937
>>10917317

Unfortunately, they rarely show the innards of the cockpits in the show. They did a lot more in the beginning - even had the AIs actually say something once or twice - but by the time it hit Earth that was mostly gone.


I'm going to have to say the Getter cockpit, specifically in Armageddon. It makes NO GODDAMN SENSE (those levers, man) but damn if it isn't cool looking.

>>10914607
This.

I'd say either Great mazinger's Brain condor or the Getter machines

>>10914593
The Big O has the best cockpit. It's beautiful.

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The Arm Slaves from Full Metal Panic were pretty cool. I'll have to dig up a better picture.

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>>10914641

Too modern.

If we're talking aircraft cockpits, I prefer the one's with more dials and switches than you can shake a stick at.

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>>10917853
> Are you fucking kidding me?
> Do you even remember what they looked like?
> They were generic as fuck, there was nothing original about them.

Patlabor's cockpit were quoted as "practical" two time.
I for one refer to this particular scene and other things :

- I do not believe in 1:1 movement imitation
- I believe the mech on-board computer will necessarily correct 80% of what we order
- Which give credit to the learning computer part
And lastly that so 360° screen as seen in Gundam is not actually "good" unless you possess the technology to recenter the point of focus around the pilot's eyes. Plus it's fucking big, and mecha's cockpit should have shock dampener built in their fancy pilot seat.

>>10917974

A problem I have with those is how does the pilot stay in the seat? There doesn't seem to be straps of any kind.

>>10919575

If they can electrify and make the LCL transparent, I'm sure they can use the liquid as shock absorbing cushion. Or the pilots hold on really hard.

Then there's the whole "Eva cockpit is the womb" thing for protection.

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The Getter Robo cockpits always seemed the most realistic to me. A claustrophobic hotbox crammed in the middle of a giant machine with their only ability to see would be multiple screens that show live visuals and radar readings.

>>10919590
>I'm sure they can use the liquid as shock absorbing cushion

Heh? Doesn't liquid just act as a better medium for the shock to pass through so it hits you even harder?

>>10917275
>Pacific Rim

The Jaegers had less of a cockpit and more of a bridge, no?

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>>10919754
That's in the case of an explosion underwater explosion leading to the surface,
My english is shaky but I'll try to explain : There's an immense difference of pressure between the center of the explosion and the outside, The pressure MUST dissipate but since liquid are not deformable it will convey the full strength of the explosion to the surface or any place with deformable gases, like in a boat.
Now, in the case of shock absorption, the body is evenly filled with the non deformable liquid, so the force applied to the body is evenly slowed because of the liquid viscosity.

I hope it male sense.

>>10920000
I don't think so, on a bridge order are given orally and distributed over several person which do not focus on the same task. In Pacific Rim it's more like a pilot/co-pilot acting simultaneously to accomplish the same task better.

Trivia : did you know that in some airliner a joint action of the two pilot/copilot over the controls will give a greater response than individual action ? It was programmed that way so that one pilot cannot accidentally make a harsh maneuver.
I find Pacific Rim system to be sound because it would allow the very same.

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>>10919601
Getter cockpits are the best.

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>>10922148
I like how they were shown to get progressively better over the decades. The first Getters were so barebones compare to later models.

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>>10919754
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing

>Extending acceleration protection beyond 20 G requires filling the lungs with fluid of density similar to water. An astronaut totally immersed in liquid, with liquid inside all body cavities, will feel little effect from extreme G forces because the forces on a liquid are distributed equally, and in all directions simultaneously. However effects will be felt because of density differences between different body tissues, so an upper acceleration limit still exists.

So magical alien blood which is similar density to water and can oxygenate and remove CO2 via the lungs so well it doesn't require mechanical ventilation and somehow doesn't trigger the normal drowning response (otherwise piloting would be like getting waterboarded).

But it would let a normal human pilot a giant mecha (unrealistic for other reasons but let's not start) without blacking/redding out every time they fall over or take a blow.

I'm surprised other show haven't tried something similar except with NANOMACHINES or directly oxygenating the pilots blood or otherwise.

>>10922230

Sounds cool.

The whole "have to vomit out all the liquid after every mission" though seems like a pain in the ass.

>>10922230
Evangelion is actually a terrible example, despite being one of the few mecha properties that involves liquid breathing (Mazinsaga does it as well, I think). The same process that turns the LCL fluid transparent also causes its density to change to that of air (which also allows for the pilots to speak and yell normally). This has the unfortunate side effect of COMPLETELY NEGATING THE WHOLE BENEFIT OF LIQUID BREATHING, which relies on the liquid density being as near as equal to your tissue density as possible. You can't science your way out of this with alien angel blood wizardry.

The specifics of EVA aside, liquid breathing presents a problem for mecha in that you immediately lose all hot-blooded yelling and possibly intense fights as well. Vocal cords aren't going to do shit in "water", and the rate at which the human lung can cycle a liquid of that density is sufficient only to supply enough oxygen for loafing around. The moment a person starts to exert themselves or get worked up, as they would in a giant robot battle, they need more oxygen than the fluid's viscosity and the lung's pumping can provide, so you'd need to shove a fucking fan or pump in the pilots mouth and throat (or oxygenate blood directly as you mentioned). But still, no hotblooded yelling.

>>10922428

So what you're saying is that we need mechs where the only organic part is the implanted brain of a human, hooked up to the mech by direct-input wires and fed by tubes of bio-enriched blood.

>>10922576
That'd appease /m/'s boner for grimdark.

>>10922614
>brains in robots is grimdark
There's nothing grim or dark about your waifu finally ACTUALLY being a robot

>>10922576
Yes ... and no.
We slowly are merging the organic and "mechanical/electronic" fields. Just beginning to but it's headed there.

By the time we can do this as enough of a routine to have militaries like that, genetics and nanotech should have advanced enough that the materials of our flesh and brains may not be quite the same as they are today. Children may very well be born nearly or already "Nanomachines, son", with optical nerves and much sturdier construction.

At that point a cockpit could very well be a tight-fitting coffin you make a near-solid 'block' of material with, or, given the exploration of biodrones, cybered animals, drone drones, increasingly organic materials sciences, VI/AI and all that, you might be born -or grow up to become- such a vehicle. Though by then expect more a really effective "ball" as opposed to a giant biped.

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At that point we could always end up copying the pilot brain into a mech artificial brain, and don't look to closely at the whole morality-of-putting-a-sentient-brain-in-a-jar thingy.


speaking of that... Evangelion.

I was really astonished at the time when I learned EVA may had used a very Hard-SF idea, then I learned about how it meant the pilot couldn't speak, yell, or cry as if he was breathing air.

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>>10923207
gaaaaaaah

>>10923415
Except 200 years from now it would instead be
>Look!
>AWW! He's growing his first plasma generator!
>Just like his daddy!
>Why does he look so much like you? I'm the one who assembled him for three weeks!

>>10922428
>>10922230

Now on the topic of this, what of Q's airborne LCL ship bridge? How is that beneficial in any way?

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>>10914641

>bridge

The difference between a cockpit and a bridge is whether the "Guy in charge" is actually doing anything.

On a bridge, the guy in charge does nothing more than make decisions that other people put into effect.

In a cockpit the man making the decisions plays some part (if not being solely responsible) for putting those decisions into action.

So the Jaeger's command area counts as a cockpit, not a bridge.

>>10917399

Cockpits like this bother me.

How does she know the spacial positioning of her mech's arms and legs?

How does she know if she's too close or too far away from something?

>>10926253

You just feel it.

Pilots in huge four-engine airliners can't really see how far or close their wing-tips are to things on the ground, but they can "feel" it because they've been flying their birds for years.

>>10927634
yeah but they also have a visual reference of where they are relative to where the wingtips are, where as the pic >>10926253 was expressing annoyance with has no reference, she is for all intensive purpose floating in space in a sphere

>>10926253
>>10927634
>>10927719
Could the view the pilot sees around him not be scaled? So that Noriko's size in relation to what she sees would be as if she is Gunbuster-sized?

>>10928088

Huh, I never thought of that.

It seems like it'd just make more problems though considering that the proportions between the Gunbuster and Noriko aren't 1:1 meaning there's still going to be some vague areas where she isn't sure exactly how close she is to something.

>>10923349
>I was really astonished at the time when I learned EVA may had used a very Hard-SF idea
That they got from Mazinsaga.

>>10928117

Easy fix

Just make sure you only employ pilots with the exact proportions of your mech.

>>10928117
>>10928949
or give them a holographic outline of the mech's shape around their body as part of the UI, if you're feeling fancy.

>>10918039

It's Japan.

He's going from 4th to 1st.

>>10914593
>Not very practical (and doesn't have consistent logic)

How so? I get how it's not practical, but what do you mean it lacks consistent logic?

>>10930165

What happens when you turn around in that cockpit?

When you do a 180 while in the G-Gundam style cockpit, what exactly happens? Does the Gundam do a 180 too or a 360 because you're turning with it as you're turning?

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>>10930524
> What happens when you turn around in that cockpit?
> When you do a 180 while in the G-Gundam style cockpit, what exactly happens? Does the Gundam do a 180 too or a 360 because you're turning with it as you're turning?

That's a question I asked myself many time.

Unless the pilot is harnessed to share the same reference than the mech, any rotation the pilot do would require a abstract "fixed referential" based directly on your surrounding with a rescaling and a proportional counter-rotation (the same way running in the cockpit won't make you run out of it)

Said another way it would mean the pilot wouldn't be in a Virtual Reality room, but in as sort of Augmented Reality room, something I don't think we have any example of today.

>>10930524
Do they ever explain in the show how a mobile trace system works in space?

>>10931111
>G Gundam
>explain how anything works
You're looking to the wrong show.

>>10931126
>Gundam
>explain how anything works
And no, saying minovsky particles it not an explanation.

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Instead of complex panoramic cockpits just project the visual data directly to the pilots eyes

I really like Trombe! and Guren's motorbike style.

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>>10918431

Too grey and brown

Needs Soviet-Blue inside the cockpit.

>>10920838
>"My English is shaky"
>proceeds to explain things more clearly than most native English-speakers would
Every time.

>>10931082

Perhaps the cockpit is in some kind of automated-gyro-sphere that allows it to rotate and keep the pilot in line with the gundam at all times?

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Zeorymer for the super robots. It has keypads! UNLABELED KEYPADS!

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The Mortar Headds of Five Star Stories are pretty great; they're motion capture, so the pilot ends up sitting in a complicated harness. There's feedback from what the MH feels, and while usually reduced, if someone snaps your robot's arms back way too fast, the safeties won't engage and you can break your arm.

>>10933504
>There's feedback from what the MH feels, and while usually reduced, if someone snaps your robot's arms back way too fast, the safeties won't engage and you can break your arm.

Sounds like who ever designed the safeties did a shitty job.

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>>10932155
You have no idea how happy I am to hear that.

>>10933504
I have to go with >>10934136, Even if you wanted to minimize response time to the point of skipping safety subprogram there's multiple way to keep this from happening.

We had problem like that with first model of exoskeleton, but in the case of motorized-skeleton the skeleton the operator whore is meant to have a strength far superior to that of human. Which shouldn't be the case for inboard Interface.

>>10933504
>if someone snaps your robot's arms back way too fast
This sounds like an especially tragic design flaw in a setting where many fights occur at supersonic speeds.

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>>10931662
Better then Soviet-Teal

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>>10935174

The only thing better than Soviet Teal is Soviet Fan.

For real, I can't get over how fucking funny these little fans are. The first time I saw one I thought they were just a unique addition by whatever pilot had put it there but nope, they're standard fucking issue of helo pilots

>>10931287

As someone who's only watched the show, is that how it is done in the VN?

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>>10914719
I like it too. Little touches like how the radar pulses as the mech leaves the catapult are neat.

>>10935174
>>10936004
>>10931662

So is there a reason they're all painted that colour?

I loved the cockpit shots in OG 2nd's D stuff and the last episodes of Gargantia. Also Unicorn.

There ought to be more of those.

>>10939317

Theory is that it calms the pilots during stressful situations.

That color-scheme bullshit where the color of a room has an affect on the occupants room and shit.

>>10939323
>the cockpit shots in OG 2nd's D stuff
Those cut-ins on the Dendrobium finishers were fucking beautiful, especially Josh's.

>>10918164
Damn did no one else think of this? When it comes to /m/ cockpits the Big O always springs to mind. Shit was hella swag

>>10941740

I think the thing that bothers me is that Big O's arms are show to move in 3D space, but the controls for his arms are stuck on 1D rails that only go back and forth.

I have a bit of a hard on for armored trooper cockpits. Using goggles linked to cameras for maximum ablative armour (not that it really helps but hey) and how cramped they are really gives a sense of a no nonsense piece of hardware that is a deathtrap if it lights up.

>>10942328
Considering how many other buttons and levers are in there, I'm sure he manages. I bet there's buttons on the joystick to move the arms up/down. It makes more sense than a lot of series that just have the two little joysticks then not much else.

>>10933504

Why not simply have "Here and no further" safeties?

It lets the shit extend to "here and no further" with that here being as far as the human joint can flex without breaking.

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I've always had a thing for Gundam cockpits.

Specifically the ones of the "I completely cannot see behind me" ones

I liked how the cockpit in the Tyrant Sword had the pilot positioned like he was driving a racing motorcycle -- like, crouched forward. The M-Rovers from Orguss were like that, too.

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Stipper pole cockpit is best cockpit.

It puts the "cock" in "cockpit"

>>10922428
If you want to fix it for plot purposes, just consider their voices to be simulated, kind of like combat noise in Gundam during space battles.

>>10937503
yes

>>10945422

Then how are the pilots communicating with each other?

>>10945358
>GunSword

Is it worth checking out? Westerns aren't really my thing...

>>10946513
Yes. Watch it.

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I like the kind of cockpits that let you smell your enemy, that don't cut you off from the outside world.

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Cockpit ? pff... that's for loser who aren't one with their mech

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>>10914593
Star Citizen's are really cozy looking.

>>10950310
What is that from? Escaflowne by any chance?

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>>10950348
Escaflowne yes.
Pretty sure someone will make a webm from the whole sequence someday

>>10950341

Now if only you could control them like actual spaceships and not simply "Planes in space"

>>10951217

I haven't played the game yet, but surely it allows you to point your "nose" in any direction while continuing your direction of travel of whatever was the last burn you did.

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>>10950341
>all those MFDs
>no actual data on them
and if >>10951217 is right
>no newtonian physics

Shit space-sim gonna be shit.

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>>10953012
there's that BSG flight combat sim, it's actually quite polished

http://diaspora.hard-light.net/

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>>10953018
>Dat cockpit
>muh DIIIIIIICK!
I have a major MFD fetish

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>>10953022
>>10953018

>tfw we're almost there in terms of Cockpit design

Ace Combat 2 soon...

>>10953699

>Ace Combat 2

If I remember correctly, those were of the "Flying Coffin" variants, yeah? With no glass, just an armored cockpit with cameras?

I don't think we're that close yet.

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>>10954543

You're thinking of AC3 and things like pic-related.

AC2 was mostly all conventional aircraft.

>>10955640

Why did there seem to be a phase in Japan where they were making aircraft look more like ships?

>>10945335

The beauty of cameras, mate, you don't need windows to get a 360 view

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My two shouts were going to be the Escaflowne Guymelef's and Big O, good to see them already mentioned.

>>10955640

That's an Ace Combat bird? Where are the weapons?

>>10958641
To this day I have no idea how a pair of pedals and some joysticks on a track system pilot a mech of that size and complexity.

But fuck if it doesn't look cool as all hell.

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>>10958641
I bloody love how he can manually control the punches he throws.

While Nu-Gundam isn't my pick for favorite cock-pit, I was always a bit puzzled as to how those ball things at the pilots hands work.

>>10960384
I'm pretty sure it's a combination trackball/keyboard that Amuro basically maps with macros.

>>10959614
it uses LAZERS

>>10960441

If I might ask again, where?

There doesn't seem to be any ports for lazer fire to emerge from

>>10953012

>no actual data on them

Well, that's a screenshot taken with the HUD hidden, so there's some data missing.

All the non-important data is kept on other holographic screens that you can bring up on command.

>>10960395
>>10960384
they're called arm rakers, basically a ball you palm with switches/buttons where your fingertips are.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110629141829/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/uc/background/glossary_technology.html#armraker

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>>10963624

>>10926253
You get the hang of it through HARD WORK AND GUTS.

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>>10963627
And by Unicorn, they've gone back to a horizontal control stick (supposedly because pilots voiced criticism about issues gripping the spherical controller), but still with individual buttons under each finger like earlier arm raker type controls.

>>10925433

Is this a technical definition or just your own opinion?

>>10963648

Well, since we're talking about vehicles that don't exist, it's opinion.

Cockpits refer only to Aircraft, if we're getting technically, but that's because mecha don't exist on our world.

>>10948783

>tfw your average car now-a-days has more dials and buttons than those early prop airplanes

We are the future.

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>>10967620
Except now all them less important buttons and switches are getting replaced by touchscreens

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I always liked the cockpit to the Zaku 2 Kai
Looked really comfy in there, especially with the leather seat

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>>10967702
Nothing wrong with touchscreens. At least as long as there's one or two joysticks left.

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>>10914790
All that deep base color neon.

>>10967758

>Nothing wrong with touchscreens

There's a lot wrong with touchscreens and their accuracy.

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>>10945358
>>10946513
>Episode 20
>that scene
Ultimate cockpit!

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>>10968634
One day I want to see a /m/ show where the pilot bleed over a touchscreen and can't see shit anymore.

Seconding the Gunbuster's cockpit.
>>10926253
co-pilot takes care of that stuff.
The Gunbuster had a second more traditional cockpit.
A better question would be, how her bandana was moving inside a giant mech when it was in space.

I really don't know why but I like the design of the Scopedog cockpit.
I think it's because it's not traditional IE lots of buttons and levers instead going for a more utilitarian design.

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>>10969049
forgot my picture.
It also looks it's a lot easier to get used to.

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>>10968983
Their spaceship even the oldest one had artificial gravity, the Gunbuster had "Inertial Canceler", imagine if there was some fan in the cockpit that have a sub-function of giving the illusion of movement through air flyx and I think something like that could happen.

>>10932155
I find people that know their English isn't perfect tend to pay close attention and give extra effort.

While native speakers don't give a fuck.

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F-22

>>10969453

>All that puke-radioactive green

Fuck that, you'd get a headache after only 30 minutes into a mission

>>10937565
>Garde
Don't let Underwater fool you, it's Guardian.

>>10969878

90's as fuck

Hope they've updated that interface for the 2010's F-22's...

>>10972686

There is such thing as Block upgrades in America you know. The F-22 of 2014 is a different bird from the F-22 of 1997

Anyone got images of 2+ man cockpits?

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>>10974934

Name a mech and I can go looking.

But off the top of my head, I got nothing

>>10922230
And this is why that bitch Pacifica Ocean was wearing a bathing suit inside ZEKE.

>>10976241
off the top of my head

>Stargazer
>VF-0
>VF-19
>Giganscudo
>Destroid Monster
>Gundam Harute
>Apsalus

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>>10917974
Here ya go

>>10976336

Some motherfucker had to program that shit

Some motherfucker had to run UI checks on the EVAs

Goddamn, I want that guys sidestory.

>>10976336

Jesus, fuck, why does tumblr not realize that these kind of gifs make your eyes fucking bleed...

>>10922428
To be fair, I absoloutely hate hot blooded yelling.

Its easily the part of mecha I hate the most. Next to (of course) screaming as if hurt when your robot is hit when there is no nervous connection between you and the machine -- and an old favourite -- Child falls into robot saves day which is magnified with -- zero training nessesary

>>10918431
The fuck is wrong with you?

Why do you want a "less good" cockpit?

>>10982754

Maybe because it adds character?

Not that anon, but come on, it's a simple desire.

>>10918901
>I do not believe in 1:1 movement imitation

This is utterly true for locomotion and balancing but how do you feel about shadowing?

That is... Specifically for arms doing fine tasks: Doing a best approximation of a pilot's arms for the manipulation of fine objects. It isn't perfect (the machines layout of joints doesn't match that of a person) but its a good replica.

An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjtQwk7zg24

I think... When we have basic control (imagine the equivalent of a controller) down to neural control freeing up the arms, this is possible.

But it will be a niche mode of operation rather than the "standard" mode of operation. For example, a targeting computer is going to do a much better job of trajectory and leading than a human is (as we see with tanks).

>>10922185
>>10922148
I can't stand Getter.

>>10923349
Well, you could do it as a software copy that is designed to expire after a set duration, then needs refreshing.

But for your pilot to "learn" and improve with experience, you'd need to be able to write the events back to your pilots brain.

>>10982748
>Next to (of course) screaming as if hurt when your robot is hit when there is no nervous connection between you and the machine

Yeah, because being in a vehicle getting hit by huge blasts and shock waves isn't going to make a pilot get flailed around and feel pain.

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>>10982784
Sounds pretty irrational and baseless bro

>>10923349

So how would one communicate in a liquid oxygen cockpit out of interest?

>>10953012
There's flight assist which 'fakes' plane physics. Its very expensive on your fuel. The idea is its there to get you used to flight.

An experienced pilot will turn it off most of the time unless the fly-by-wire corrections the computer off can do a better job (which sometimes it will).

When you turn off flight assist, you have direct manual control of the craft and all engines. When you supply rotation, you have to apply cancelling thrust (or in the beta, you hold 'break' -- which is an automatic compensation for spins and rotations beneath 8G -- beyond that, you're on your own.

No such compensation exists for lateral motion however: You have to eye your direction indicator in the radar and do all that manually.

There's also what's called the relativistic grid coming. It means you can move in relative velocity to a target (ideal for precision flying since the grid which is anchored to your target allows you to judge distances very precisely).

This is really useful if you're trying to dock with a target that won't play well and your gunner is planting anchors in the hull so you can limit their range of motion. Scraping hulls to force a drylock isn't uncommon.

>>10974225
>Block upgrades
They're usually purely software and sometimes minor hardware changes like a new higher quality MFD etc. Ultimately most internal systems are left intact for the most part. The F-22 cockpit looks the exact same today that it did when we first saw inside it in the mid/late 90s.

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>>10982775
> This is utterly true for locomotion and balancing but how do you feel about shadowing?

(I am the anon you quoted)
No need to say again that shadowing our legs could prevent the computer from doing a move necessary for Mech balance or to accomplish our own intent.

For the arms I guess it could be useful... if there was no indication that computer might still use them better than us. Be it for grabbing object, aiming, swinging swords, .... not trembling or getting tired.

See this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M413lLWvrbI (I saw the same robot tie a knot somewhere else)

However unless we talk of full-blown strong Artificial intelligence, computer would stay limited to concept he can understand. (like shape and geometry)
So a human operator would have to input concept it can't guess like : "This material is too fragile to walk on, this one is strong" or simply be there to maintain the power of decision, like : "grab this human (do it gently)" against "Grab this monster (squish it)".

> But it will be a niche mode of operation rather than the "standard" mode of operation.

Indeed, but that's still supposing our mechs have (or need) a humanoid-shape.
Shadowing the movement of a clearly-superior-mechanical-tentacle would require fascinating change in our anatomy.

ALL THIS, is why I'm not at all bothered the least by the very simplistic "seat+pedal+joystick" we see in most Gundam show.

>>10982800
Good question. I doubt there was any research done on that yet since I don't know any working "breathable liquid".

>>10982792
Telling people you are going to create a digital but still sentient being that will be put to death in a set time regardless of their crime is still a ethic problem.

>>10982989
On paper, I can see the weapons being used being like frames that have like a psudo-cockpit and are about the same size as a PowerLoader.

To that end, I can see pilot-arms being enclosed in the torso neatly and machine-arms being around the cockpit as separate units with task specific tools.

I can however, see parts of the torso shifting and following the motion of the arms. Like... If you put your hands to your shoulders and stick your elbows out, that's the normal stance or shape of the machines torso. Assuming you actually did replicate this posture, imagine yourself the robot: Your "real" arms would be matched to your shoulders like a jacket or something. Your operators entire arms would exist within your biceps and your operators head would be within yours but it would probably be quite roomy or very well armoured. Your operators hands sit just before your elbow and your arms can outstretch into "human scale" hands ideal for dealing with human scale problems like opening doors (for drones or something), diffusing bombs, operating equipment, pushing buttons and using operator-scaled tools for repair.

To that end, the hands of the fragile arms are usually protected, I imagine withdrawn inside of that fore-arm, which would have lots of multi-tools of sorts.

>Telling people you are going to create a digital but still sentient being that will be put to death in a set time regardless of their crime is still a ethic problem.

Not really: Its a moral problem. Ethics deals with the objective. In this case, what we're moving could be a highly abridged version of a personal intelligence. Death is ethically sound provided there is no pain or dread: Being an architect of a mind by moving it in the copying process, you can just create agnosia for the process and render all ethical concerns moot.

(continued)
Indeed: ethically speaking, death isn't a problem at all. Depriving someone of potential (a life and such) is. A simulation with a set life-time and no concept of that specific style of death has no prospects. You didn't feel bad before you were alive so why would you feel bad after death? The act of dying and depriving those associated is what is ethically disagreeable; If you can minimise that suffering then death is not problematic.

So no: There is no ethical concern here.

(continuing a little)

>>10982775
> An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjtQwk7zg24

This video is about an use for video game to increase the immersion in a virtual (controlled) environment. It also has a entertaining goal as it would make video-game more physical. (Thus turning future nerd into black-belt kun-fu fighter)

For an interface the use is different.

>>10983090
My point is, its based on shadowing systems already used in bomb disposal and reactor cleanup robots used in hazardous environments.

This was the most visceral example I could show you.

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>>10983041
> On paper, I can see the weapons being used being like frames that have like a psudo-cockpit and are about the same size as a PowerLoader.

This is a pretty distinct condition. You can't keep the arm inside in something the size of the power-loader from Alien. Or you get into Appleseed territory.

In this case, I still think "shadowing" the pilot move would be very inefficient, the pilot is to be considered as a fragile-meatbag and the interface must compensate for our physical limitation and go way beyond them.

For example : How does a mech-pilot jump when the very machine his legs push against is accelerating upward ?
Some solution would be to make sure every bones of the pilot is solidly fixed to the machine, but you would still never "jump" as if you were suddenly 8m tall. Because you still aren't.

>>10983146
The shadowing is purely for the arms for tedious manipulation tasks. Everything else is all very obviously drive-by-wire machine-driven. I thought that was obvious?

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>>10914607
This is by far one of the best cockpits introduced in mecha.
>360 degrees of view
>linear seat compensates for G-forces.
>Monitor in front of you broadcasts suit diagnostics and other information, while 360 degree monitor tracks targeting and heat sources, making combat information easier to compartmentalize and process.

I actually had a theory that the linear seat is one of the reasons why we see pilots get much more liberal with thrusters in Earth's gravity come Zeta, alongside more fuel capacity and a marginal overall increase in output. Since it helps mitigate G-forces and turbulence on the pilot him/herself, pilots are much more inclined to employ faster movements since they'll feel much less of the physical punishment they would endure otherwise.

>>10983219

But what about the point brought up by >>10926253

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>>10926253
>>10983228

When information like that is important, the cockpit actually displays a visual representation of that limb or extrusion.

Example; when the Kshatriya has it's funnels return to the MS, we see the binder appear behind Marida, and disappear when the funnels are finished returning. When she has the beam saber out, we see the arm, and we also see this with the Unicorn during the Sinanju battle. Logically, when the pilot deactivates the saber, the arm would disappear from the monitor as well.

360 degree monitors aren't actual camera footage; it's a picture perfect 3d recreation of visual data gathered by the suit's cameras augmented by the computer and displayed to the pilot on the monitor. As a result of this, it can display the limbs when the computer deems it necessary for the pilot to see it.

It also uses this to create computer generated recreations of MS or ships if the visual data is too far away to make out properly, and displays that to the pilot. That's also why the Sinanju wasn't displaying properly and they had trouble targeting the thing during their battle with it; it was too fast, the computer had no data on it, merely displaying it as an unidentified heat source classified as a mobile suit so they couldn't draw a very good bead on the it. Once they got the targeting data from Alberto, they had an easier time targeting it (though no easier time hitting it.) MS have been doing this since the OYW. There was a mobile suit in MS IgLoo that took advantage of this; the GM Camouf. The computer would think it's a GM until it got close, enabling Zeon pilot to effectively trick the enemy pilot into letting his guard down.

>>10983255
>>10983219
Some one brought up an important issue with this style a while ago, from what position does the pilot see? the chest or the head? There has been plenty of times were the head has been destroyed damaged and it's shown that this is the relative view point for the suit. But that brings up the issues of that visual information clashing with the neural input from the inner ears, as they would report you being inside he torso, his would cause awful nausea for the pilot.

>>10983273
Well that's the thing: Its suggested that the information comes from not one source but is a battle-model composite of the environment, processing and digesting raw information into a full 360 degree simulation which acknowledges the true distances of objects.

Try to picture... A bright light on a city corner in perfect darkness. That light is our visibility. Everything it strikes, we can see. Everything it does not, we can't. As we move the light, like a fog of war, the image in our mind remembers its last "known image" of that place.

Now imagine that's a 3D model: Only the things you can see would be modelled: the rest just totally untouched and blank. As you move through an environment and cross over the same places though you may end up with a more complete view of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aU2s85Zw3A

This already does it. Not in realtime but its very cool.

>>10983255
Shouldn't you see the bits of the pilot that wasn't vaporized?

>>10983296
>Well that's the thing: Its suggested that the information comes from not one source but is a battle-model composite of the environment

You don't understand his post. He's talking about the actual perspective of the visual information. I can't believe you wrote out that post without ever realizing what he was actually talking about.

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>>10983183
Excuse me then, my english isn't perfect.
However I still don't think that shardowing would be interesting as an interface.

This is first a question of needs, do you need speed, precision, versatility, user autonomy ? What can you sacrifice and how far ?
Most /m/ show require a fast reaction time (except in case of 5 minutes long monologue) as well as robotic precision, and extreme versatility (ex the arm can also be a shield or to rip your own arm)... and somehow it can be operated by kids falling into the cockpit.
You can also consider the logistic view, it might be bothersome to create a robotic-arm that give a force-feedback to the operator to do a few task that could still be handled better by the computer using a non-shadowing interface.

Now for bomb disposal and reactor cleanup you doesn't need speed or user-autonomy, you don't even need to be inside the robot so you can cut cost by creating an universal interface that can be used by different remote-drones.
Most of current technology are basically just 3D pointers.

>>10983053
If said user-copy is intelligent enough to do the same mission than the real user, trust me, there WILL be moral and ethic issues. Worse than if you created from scratch a strong-AI capable of explaining you why the Turing test is meaningless to test sentience/intelligence.

>>10983296
>>10983324
yeah sorry i should have been more clear, what i was trying to say was that from what perspective does the pilot see? I understand that it's a virtually scanned environment, but humans only have one set of eyes, and the difference in height alone is in METERS.
Thats a pretty big perspective shift for brain to understand/compensate for, so intense motion sickness would occur.

>>10983273
The animation is sometimes inconsistent on this, but the official description of the Panoramic monitor seems to imply it's from the head. We see a scene in Zeta, though, when the cockpit closes and it's merely from the pilots position in the torso, but it could very well be an animation error (or the technical descriptions for this probably weren't written yet,) or the viewpoint can be re-positioned based on the pilot's preferences.

Anyway, if there's one thing nobody can bash Unicorn for, it's the attention to detail. You can tell a lot of care was taken to nail down the technological specifics as accurately as possible.

>>10983255
I wonder how this ties into sub-flight systems when a mobile suit is riding one. Is the Dodai?Base Jabber edited out as well? Does the mobile suit connect to cameras in the sub-flight system

>>10983255

I like the idea because it leaves open the idea of someone being able to hack the "Visualization" center of the enemy suits and making it so that the enemy simply can't "see" them because they're not allowing the enemy's suit to create the image of them while they silently slip past.

>>10984577

If you have the ability to control an enemy's systems that much, why not just shut down the entire enemy suit itself?

>>10984861

Maybe you simply want to sneak past the enemy without fighting.

It'd be a pretty neat trick for those pacifist MC's you see all over the place.

>>10983500
In episode 5, we see that MS on Base Jabbers tend to edit out the Base Jabber itself. You get a brief view of the bottom half of the Jesta's cockpit right before Watts is knocked off by Banagher.

>>10968960
Are there any good scenes where a pilot gets a believable injury inside a cockpit inside an /m/ show?

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>>10987709
What sort of injury?

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I love the Diebuster cockpits because of how comically uncomfortable they look. They're just plain goofy.

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What about size?

Type 17 from Sidonia has enough space even for a pilot's naked waifu.

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>>10988570
...also it looks nice. I don't know why do they need vitals signs in the cockpit though.

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>>10974934

>>10988048

Are they basically sitting on a pole?

Jesus, that must get uncomfortable.

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obligatory

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This one looks like an amusement park ride. Or maybe an elaborate arcade cabinet for a racing game. Or something;

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The cockpit in the Escaflowne movie was pretty cool. The fact that it screwed into the pilot and mingled his blood and the Guymelef's fluids was creepy and imaginative.

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>>10987709
This is from 0080 War in the pocket
In 8th MS Team there's a shrapnel scene

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>>10990601

>>10960384

Is it just that model or are there really no straps holding that pilot down?

>>10990606
8th MS Team was not believeable, they left the cockpit door open and got shoot 100 times by a machine gun and only got hit by broken glass from the monitors getting shot.

>>10994767
I don't think I saw straps in most Gundam series. My headcanon says that the pilot suits must latch in on the back somehow, acting as an inegrated restraint.

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>>10942328
>>10959929
You don't need a master? Or do they choose their own master? Do we control them or do they control us, Roger Smith?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg3mSqyz30s#t=375

>>10994767

>Gundam
>Straps

Have you really never seen a single Gundam episode?

>>10994767
with the linear seat having straps are not as important. the main reasoning for using the linear seat arrangement was to reduce the stress of G-forces on the pilot. and in CCA they have airbags to prevent your face from slamming into the display screens.
During the OYW they used straps with the regular early style cockpits. but that's why post-OYW (mid 0080s) you don't see straps anymore with the panoramic cockpit/linear seat set up.

>>11001955

Did they use linear cockpits in Victory? I can't recall whether they did, just that they had an orange thing that strapped over the chest to stop them bouncing during turbulence of any kind.

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>>11001974
Victory cockpits are a little different. They are more claustrophobic and cramped because of the smaller MS size. They don't have enough room for the same linear seat set up. They use their own version of the panoramic cockpit.

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i quite like simple controls in mecha, stuff like joysticks and big buttons
dont remember the getter robo cockpits too well, but i think it follows a similar design to lagann

megas xlr is the best cockpit of all time though

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>>11005461
>dont remember the getter robo cockpits too well, but i think it follows a similar design to lagann
Nah.
See
>>10919601
>>10922148

Gurren Lagann ripped it from image related.

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>>11005461

>megas xlr is the best cockpit of all time though

Yes

God, yes

>>10982748
>Next to (of course) screaming as if hurt when your robot is hit when there is no nervous connection between you and the machine

Have you ever been in a car accident?

>>11006196
He must have been in some sort of accident given his mental condition

>>11006196

Not him, and no I haven't, but I wouldn't say it's a very good comparison. A car accident is almost always an unexpected thing, where almost all hits in a mech are telegraphed and expected to some degree, negating a lot of the freak out potential. Plus, while your average car is built for safety, they're still not armored or anything and they roll, crumple and break in terrifying ways - mechs, not so much. Finally, a car accident is almost always going to be a single, once-off incident that most people will never experience again in their lifetime. A hit in a mech is a regular occurance, and can happen multiple times in the space of seconds. After a few of them, you're going to be at least somewhat used to it.

>>10922428
Eva's LCL was only a fluid when the show wanted it to be.

>>11006229
That is willfully ignorant. Modern Cars are designed to take catastrophic impacts, crumple, absorb 99% of the potential energy. And car crashes still hurt like hell. No its not a great comparison, but it gives us two better comparisons.

Piloting a mech is either going to be like driving an old car, made with hunks of metal and rigid bars, and if you crash, get hit a lot, etc, it's going to hurt, probably break you, kill youetc.

Or more likely, with various shock absorbers, dampeners, other technology, it's still going to be like rocking around inside a rollercoaster, except you're going to bash your self on the bars and hurt yourself just as much.

After a battle, pilots are going to be beaten up like American Football players after a match. You wont feel every hit the same, because of adrenaline and such. But afterwards they're gonna ache for days, they're gonna need to tape up old injuries for next time, they're gonna be crippled and concussed to the point of insanity before they're 40. They'll be two inches shorter than when they joined the military after a career piloting mechs. It'll destroy your body no matter what.

>>10945422
>>10946433
Subvocalisation?

>>11006289
So, less hot-blooded screams and more cold-blooded shrieks of terror?

>>10985674
Problem: Footprints

>>11006443

Solution: The animation team doesn't draw footsteps anyways

>>11006145

Huh, so the person riding shotgun has tasks to do as well to make the thing run?

>>11008199

Looks more like it lets them run diagnostics during fights, not really control anything.

>>11008199

The layout of the Megas changes every episode, sometimes twice an episode.

You can't tell what anything does just by looking at it.