>the internet has killed academia.
Agree or disagree?
Why go to college when you can download all the books you want and watch lectures of esteemed professors from all around the world on youtube?
The only problem is getting certified.
The vast majority of people in college are not there to study a subject out of passion. They just know that they need that magic piece of paper to land a decent job.
College is no longer an institution of higher learning. It is high-school 2.0
College needs to die
Just keep feeding the fattened calf.
buy our latest edition textbook!
Only 500 dollars!
Basically. Anyone who is interested and willing to think through things can get to understanding. Academia is just class bullshit. Puts weird value judgements all over the place, and then tries to convince you why some obscure meaningless "insight" matters. It's for people who insist on taking the time and energy to assert themselves over each others.
I don't think it's random that the rise of "lol nerd" culture and hipsters came to be at the same time at the same time that everyone now goes to college. Both value buying into specialized knowledge to have more of a claim as a "legit" individual.
It is part diploma-mill and value-indoctrination, but to say there is no higher learning in college now is not true. There are still benefits to learning from certain professors, from the structure the courses give you, and access to information that might be harder to find outside the academic world.
On average the difference in lifetime earnings between college grads and non-college grads more than makes up for the average debt students graduate with (I think around $30,000 in the US.) Now what you're saying might be true for literature, but elsewhere academia still provides much for both their students through teaching and society as a whole through research.
So far, I agree with the other anons. for most people, college is a means to a career, a means to validation that a person is capable to fill a certain job. college is also a business marketed (no necessarily through advertisements) as a means to self-improvement; you buy their product to become smarter.
But college is also a place in which you have a conversation with other like-minded, and vastly more intelligent, people (i.e. professors). Just like you go to tech support to help you fix your computer you go to college to make you smarter.
Let me qualify this: The internet is just a more accessible library. You want all the books with which to educate yourself? That's been available as long as public libraries have. University education is supposed to be a quicker route through education. What if you read all the wrong books and became some right-wing neo-nazi because all you read are things that cited Mein Kampf? Professors can direct your studies, but it's still all up to you to do the reading, come up with interesting discussion points, and questions about what to read next.
How much shitposting do you have to slug through to get meaningful discussion on /lit/? And most discussion is just some anon who has read the book talking about his interpretation. College is a business, catering to your educational needs, so long as you fulfill them. College isn't an amalgam of materials for education, it is a service industry that satisfies whatever you want out of education (you just have to want something out of it and seek that thing in order to be properly educated).
If your professors suck, then change schools. Just like if your HP laptop sucks you can go buy an Asus or whatever.
The internet is only as useful as you make it and if you don't know how to use it properly as an educational tool then you'll be stuck wading through shitposts and memes and whatever, just like if you merely attend classes and take tests college is worthless.
The internet is nothing special and is only a more immediate amalgam of things that already existed. If you don't use these things properly you'll get nothing out of it.
>What if you read all the wrong books and became some right-wing neo-nazi because all you read are things that cited Mein Kampf?
>implying there is an objective way to interpret history.
Humans are primates. We are naturally violent. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Nature is violent. Chimpanzees go to war and cannibalize those they kill. A lion will destroy the offspring of its rivals. Should lions and chimps be morally condemned? Why should humans be if we are 99% identical to other primates?
people always shit on about the need for guided study.
like, you wont learn anything unless you have someone spoonfeeding selected readings for you.
skills I have learnt from 4chan
>how to rebuild a car engine
>how to fix anything on a car
>how to build and repair appliances, furniture
>how to fix anything
things I learnt from downloading books
>pretty much everything else
I learnt more from the internet than I did in two years of university.
unless you're going to school for stem, it's pretty much useless. i'm not shitting on non-stem shit or saying they're useless, but you don't necessarily need to go to university for that stuff. a significant chunk of studying history was learning how to write a proper research paper and the rest of the program was putting that to use. i didn't learn anything that i couldn't have learned on my own. the only thing i got from it was a paper that said i paid thousands of dollars and completed all the busy work that was thrown at me.
Not him, but visiting /pol/ learned me a lot about taking every media outlet with a grain of salt. I now assume that every article I read on the news and every journalist I hear speaking on tv is lying or telling half truths.
I also learned to not stay in a hugbox, and to actively seek arguments opposing my view, so I don't get an overly biased political view.
I study computer science, so I my college education doesn't touch these subjects though.
internet has killed academia by allowing a bunch of uneducated people run around talking about how much academia doesn't matter because they have access to books they never read and fooling everyone else
also the whole "but the internet gives us access to all the information we need" is mostly bullshit sputed by people that watch TED talks
yes the internet has a huge amount of information but we're not information sponges and most of us are dipshits that need someone to direct our learning
also university gives you access to jstor
The information age has absolutely killed academia, but only because society has convinced itself that a google search is equivalent to years of focused study; that forums filled with confirmation bias and misinformation are as reliable as classrooms filled with published research and certified professional; and especially in the United States where higher education is a service-based, for-profit venture that seeks to certify and license instead of educate and grow.
>presents alleged fact for discussion- 'the internet has killed academia'
>argues for proposition with value statements rather than actual facts like, I dunno, maybe the number of people going to university
Yeah, who needs education, amirite?
Am I being trolled? Is this high-level rusing?
You didn't learn "anything" in two-years of school because university systems aren't designed to provide you with vocational skills and your first few semesters are intended to broaden your perspective and knowledge base so that the more focused, more specialized instruction in your later years isn't beyond you.
yah but you fail to recognize that most qualified professionals fail to apply any of that "learning" they were meant to do. the problem with filtering schema and assessments is that they can only test to see if someone can pass the schema. they dont actually prove competence.
for example, go to a doctor and say you are depressed and ask for antidepressants. time how long it takes for them to write a script for antidepressants.
Or, go to a mechanic ever and see how often they just replace random parts of break parts of your car to get you to come back for more expensive repairs.
the comodification of education was inevitable but i agree with you that education is now deffinitely much more about meeting grant and funding requirements and growing the business than it is about education.
yah. two years of recapping highschool. was great. fucking waste of money. what's worse is this bullshit "self directed study" idea where they give you a task with no help and you're expected to just come back with something in a particular format with no information on what that format might be, what you're meant to produce and how they expect you to do. everyone. and I mean everyone just asked last years students for a copy and copied their work. caused confirmation bias because the teachers thought they were actually doing a good job and how great their teaching methods were for getting such consistent results. how the fuck was anyone meant to learn anything when they wouldnt even tell us what the assignment was?
studied stem here.
>skills I learned on chinchin
did you perchance go to university to learn how to fix cars, repair appliances and become a handyman? if not, this comparison is meaningless
>"pretty much everything else"
way to be completely meaningless, omniscient one
This is partly true, though I'd say that Academia has never been what its image would suggest.
But the threat of a civilisation which has convinced itself that abundant information is equivalent to deep understanding has created survival adaptations in Academia which have - especially in fields where "progress" is a murky concept (the humanities) - favoured charlatans and attention seekers.
All that matters now for Academia is growth, because they and universities will die without it. To survive information saturation, the work of Academics has to (more than ever) be marketable in one way or another, and the potential student populations have to be catered to. And the image has to be maintained, even if that means University adapts to become High School 2.0 and Academics adapt to become glorified Wardens of populations of people the system can't or won't integrate yet.
>how to fix anything
Oh yeah? How about you fix my ugly face then?
I'll tell ya man, I graduated with honors from a state university in a liberal arts program. All my professors were ivy graduates, I worked my butt off, I was in honors classes. I didnt learn much of anything except how to give my boss back what they want.
For the 10 years after college i read continuously, found a job outside my specialty (digital marketing), and used problem solving to be successful within it. And today all I can think of is how much better off I would have been if I had taken the money invested into a college education and bought some servers to spam advertisements all over the world while reading the greeks.
great post, especially weird value judgements. I was in a high level shakespeare course and a whole lesson was on Richard eating red berries. I remember thinking especially of that as what a colossal waste of time it was, when I could have just as easily read a book with one line outlining the allegory.
simply rewrite your narrative such that your value system does not include physical beauty.
she had a screen acting career and now practices law. why dont you?
While I generally agree that you can probably learn a lot nowadays on the internet which you previously would only have been able to learn in university, one thing remains - the actual degree
The little piece of paper that confirms that I've done all this (successfully or otherwise), which is required for jobs etc etc
How can I do that with the internet?
And then he says, he says: *sniffs* *pulls on nose*
>"Yes! Okay! I am ugly! Now, fix me! Fix my appearance, my face, my body, and so on!"
and it is pure idiosyncrasy *pulls shirt*, he is completely lost in his own perceived non-idealistic physical self *pulls shirt* *pulls on nose*. He wants to be something other than what he believes he is *sniffs*, and then asks someone else to instigate this metaphysical change *pulls on nose*, someone to give him the secret clue, the cheating slip of paper, a Hairy Pol Pot swinging his phallic object of neo-victorian mythical fairy tales and so on. No! *sniffs* *pulls shirt* It cannot be done like that! He is lost in pure ideology, he believes he is when in fact more accurately he perceives he believes he is *pulls on nose* *sniffs*. His subconsciousness weeps behind an aggressive superimposed chauvinistic conscious self because you see *pulls shirt*, it was never about a fix for what he is *sniffs*, it was about the validity of beliefs by obscenely politically correct liberal Western society to say: "Okay, listen, all woman are beautiful. It does not matter if you are fat, normal, anorexic, or have horrible physical condition to look like hideous forest creature from Slavic mythology and so on; All women are beautiful." But aha! *pulls on shirt* What about also men are beautiful! If you are a short little man, if you are balding like pseudo-satirical socioeconomic commentary character of Kostanza in American fantasy television show Seinfield, and so on and so on, why are you not beautiful too! *sniffs* *pulls shirt* This is what he asks to fix, this so-called progressive post-modern fascistic hatred of non-women and baseless glorification of Woman and so on, and not the fixing of the non-ideological self he believes he is *sniffs*.
the internet killed academia because now people confuse the ability to regurgitate factoids and hearing people spout random shit to you for genuine understanding of a topic, with all the proper context and background it entails
it promotes superficiality of understanding and an overinflated sense of comprehension
Anti-intellectualism can reach new heights if anti-intellectuals adopt the superficial trappings of academia, it makes them sound like they know what they're talking about to the mass of laymen
>get chance to test your own independence and academic rigor, all the while having a professor to fall back for help if the task ever overwhelms you, and being graded by the end without penalties like losing your job or being ostracized
>"lolno, let me just copy what someone else did and then complain about how shit the experience I inflicted on myself was on the Internet"
wut? you literally just repeat what your lecturers tell you as an undergrad. independent thinking not allowed. I feel sorry for you if your "independent thinking" happened to match mainstream memes.
>lecturers help you
this actually happens? I cant tell you how many times I asked lecturers for help only to get knocked back with, "not my job"
seriously look into this self directed learning BS being pushed in academia these days. it works like this:
>lecturer has expectation of finished product.
>gives open ended criteria sheet requiring that you demonstrate these course objectives
>lecturer will only accept their pre-formed conception of what should be presented, in which way and what specific points gleaned from which of their favorite authors
>apparently open ended assignments are actually just asking you to find out what the lecturer wants, not to learn.
>independent thinking is not allowed
Just because you can't defend your half baked thesis doesn't mean independent thinking isn't allowed
But then again by the looks of it you a) went to a shit college and b) didn't try at all to make the experience any better and are now complaining here
This idea that everyone should go to college has killed academia. It's fucking stupid how it's almost considered a necessity now.
Ideally a minority of the population would go to college, and the rest should be perfectly fine with more manual jobs, which there is no shame in taking and the pay for those should be enough to sustain a living.
I'm telling you, I quit. that's what made the experience better.
are you 16? if you think I am lying just take a look at how cornial inquests into police shootings work
>policeman said he dindu nuffin
>coroner doesnt want to bite hand that feeds
>policemans testimony is beyond reproach
>lets not do a forensic investigation, reconstruction or allow the submission of evidence that might contradict his statement
>why would we even need to do such a thing?
>his opinion is clearly infallible
Nice analogy man, I personally like how it barely applies to what's being discussed
More like if a mental patient went up to the police alleging he was bit by a vampire who leaves invisible bite marks. The police obviously dismisses the case, but the mental patient takes to a forum of assorted idiots who buy his asinine story
>highly respected academic report
>open to peer review and criticism
>does completely shit job
>everyone is fine with it
honestly, for one assignment, we were given a sheet of graph paper, no labels, nothing on it. we were meant to graph something to do with three different motor setups we'd seen that day. no instructions as to what they actually wanted us to do.
>but anon, if we tell you how to do it then we can only give you a "C"
>top student with deans scholarship lends me his brothers assignment from last year to copy
>we both get As
you should also head over to /diy/ some time. we get people doing their honors assignments in engineering basically wanting to flash an LED with an arduino quite often.
you dont learn those trades at university. you learn them on the job. like for medicine you do your internship after the degree. this is why getting a BSc. med doesnt make you a doctor.
its just a normie social skills test.
Let me guess, you'll be the one going to college while all the plebs take a manual job
Actually I dropped out of college and now work a shitty retail job. I was just saying what I honestly though. I never really wanted to go in the first place, but it's what society tells us is basically "normal" now, after high school you go to college. I found it depressing and boring though.
I agree with you in some sense
Most young people need and outside force pushing them through the work which a teacher may provide
Also one on one instruction from an academic really does help some people
But most of all paying for that bullshit education gives you that fancy piece of paper which employers want
I'd argue that that's a problem with you, then.
No offense, but if you don't have and pursue a passion in at least (though by at least I mean that more is valid, but diluted) one aspect of self-actualisation, I don't think you're living your life. Not in any meaningful way at least.
I literally can't express how much better my life has been since I attended Oxford. I went to a state school and gradually became the stereotypical moody, withdrawn sensitive type who both despises the quality of his immediate culture and feels a weird pride for having been raised in a sort of anti-intellectual and brutal environment. I was all set to take my Russell Group humanities BA and spend my life working as an anonymous, insecure wageslave forever thankful of being offered a job and forever too insecure to pursue my creative ambitions. The chip on my shoulder had become something of a wedge, and I felt too out of place regardless of my environment, too resentful and bitter to even attempt to make it in the artistic world. Then I finally applied for Oxford and got in to study an English MA, with reassurance that should I work hard enough a career in academia or within one of Oxford's affiliated companies would be almost guaranteed. I turned up as apprehensive as usual, and the first few days were spent regretting my decision and desperately feigning a cultured personality. But then I realized that the people there were just interesting and that the snobbery and exclusivity I had anticipated was just a myth borne out of my working class upbringing. I've since graduated, having spend the year dining in grand halls with groups of interesting people, dating several girls (one of whom, a petite Russian whose family traces back to the aristocracy, is now my fiancee). I work four days a week at a publishing company and earn £38k a year. I regularly meet up with friends from my college and visit Oxford for nights out and for meetings with my professors. The Martin Eden-esque novel I have been writing for two years has been selected for publication at a major British publishing house and, honestly, I could not have imagined a few years ago how great life could be. I come on /lit/ and see how pathetic you all are and just shake my head and chuckle. If I saw you guys on the street I would of course throw you a penny or discuss Bukowski or whatever "realist" writers you enjoy, but ultimately I would be able to tell within ten seconds if you're an Oxbridge grad and would dismiss you as a potential source of good company if you are not. I never thought I'd know what it was like to be objectively better than somebody else, for the value of my existence to be superior to the value of a stranger's, but now I do and I've never been happier. People are awed by power and prestige. All I need to do is mention the university I attended (if only for a year) and they immediately begin to hunch and look at their feet because they know they are in the presence of greatness.
Lolk, feel free to point at le SJW boogeyman. Just remember that ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
Any legit reasons you're gonna give for a life without meaning being worth living?
>you should also head over to /diy/ some time. we get people doing their honors assignments in engineering basically wanting to flash an LED with an arduino quite often.
We have that same problem in Physics. I was in lab today seeing what other students were doing for their 3rd year project - some are doing ridiculously basic programming and arduino projects. It annoys me so much - that's not Physics, that's pissing around with faff.
life, death, and suicide are not rational decisions mein friend. ever try dealing with them? life doesn't need a meaning. you are spat from the womb and carried to the grave almost purely by inertia
Life needs a meaning, regardless of whether or not you explicitly choose a meaning. It boils down to the pursuit of what you percieve as happiness, be it conscious or subconscious. Suicide (generally) happens when you don't believe you're capable of reaching happiness any more.
There are no objective truths, but throwing your hands in the air because there's no solid ground to stand on is unacceptable. Nietzche wrote about that shit centuries ago and we've moved on from that point, catch up mein Freund.
>it's easier to get access to knowledge now
>the knowledge is worth only as much as you can interpret it effectively, though more knowledge is a net positive
>this has no conceivable negative effects on people who would've pursued academic knowledge regardless
>muh intellectual elitism is R U I N E D
>and became some right-wing neo-nazi because all you read are things that cited Mein Kampf?
It is hugely ironic that you say this because you're much more likely to be indoctrinated into a particular way of thinking at university than you are on the internet. University syllabuses are crafted by individuals, often with extremely strong ideological views, and university campuses in general promote a specific way of thinking and specific values. No it isn't going to make you specifically a NeoNazi but it might make you something equally closeminded. The internet does none of this, you can read Mein Kampf alongside the Scum Manifesto if that's what you feel like doing. Or Marx, or Fichte, or whoever, the point is you aren't being told what to think, and you aren;t being penalized academically and socially for thinking certain things.
To be clear I think there are many merits to colleges, and as you pointed out, a good professor is invaluable, the structure and average quality of content do things that most cant make themselves do on their own time, etc. I just find it funny that you pointed out what is probably the single biggest problem with college and you attributed it to the internet.
The notion of college as a service is not wrong, it is just that its current norms and practices are systematically functioning first and foremost as a racket (a market contrivance, forcing itself as a needed service for something while this something does not in actuality need college education). Then it is a IQ-loaded trade school (i.e. engineers, other purely applied fields), then it is a very centralized business bureaucracy nickle and diming students. Then it is, finally, sort of an institution of learning in some loftier, abstract sense.
And yes, I really do mean to say that higher education in this country is a fucking racket. Most jobs that require a BA do not actually REQUIRE a BA in any practical sense. Give me a fucking IQ test and look at my highschool GPA if you need some branding certificate of brains and grit. Stop pretending to teach me an applicable skill, in the case of most college grads. And mostly, stop draining money out of young people and the economy when it serves no practical purpose, you fucking weasel thugs.
Stanford and Caltech are institutions of learning, they are somewhat of an academy. They philosophize, they teach the rigorous abstract. Most students do not have the good fortune to experience such an environment, they are the victims of this racket. Not all institutions are culpable, but most are.
/fit/ did something similar to me. If I find out that someone gives shit fitness advice (which is 99.9999% of fitness advice), I assume that they don't know anything about any subject, not even their specialty.
>reading wrong books
>college makes you smarter
>Just change schools, just buy more things!
>College is better for learning, IF you WANT to learn, but you can't achieve that in a library!
Neo /lit/ sure is fucking retarded
Worst Zizek impression I have ever seen on /lit/ or elsewhere.
I literally read Plague of Fantasies last weekend and I fell asleep watching a Zizek lecture three out of five weeknights this week.
Not that Zizek is not worthy of caricature but please step up your game senpai.
>check email today
>got accepted into my #1 choice PhD program
because you can't download all the books you want. even aaaarg doesn't have everything. jstor doesn't have everything and it's expensive.
The worst thing about university is the moment you realize how unsatisfied with your teachers, and how distant the generational gap is. The best thing is finding out your peers are realizing the same thing and then collectively breaking yourself up with the help of the group and understanding your common language.
I think we just have the capacity. Violence always has a cause. And its usually always a choice. We are also naturally rational. Its only recently in history we have had the luxury of being irrational because of social safety nets.