Opera Libretto

>>7683222
>I'm a lone wolf composer with no talent for writing whatsoever
Know that feel, man. Started writing for orchestra and chamber ensembles because my Libretti always sucked.
Oh well, I can still write Lieder, I guess.

>>7683232
Oh, and I guess I like Wagner's libretti. I know that they're memes at this point but Wagner just managed to create an amazing equilibrium between poetry and music.

>>7683222

Aren't you where you're meant to be? Composer writes the piece, poet writes the libretto.

>>7683272
Yeah but being able to write your own libretti gives you a lot more control. Especially if you're talking about a Gesamtkunstwerk.

>>7683281
Not OP btw
Oh, and poets that have an intrest in writing opera libretti are hard to come by, especially if you're a lone wolf like me and OP

>>7683222
I recommend starting with musicals and working your way backwards through studying theatre and its philosophy. This might give you some foresight into Operatic style. As a fan, your piece should flow with a score. So team up with a composer. They usually know contacts that could help you kick-start your project to the stage. Start locally, like campuses.
>different language?/Interpreters

>>7683232
>>7683238
>tfw Wagner wrote his own libretti
>they were considered not bad from a literary standpoint
>he's objectively better in everythin everything than I could ever be
Yeah I'm also thinking about switching to lieder, but in a more dramatic approach like Mahler and Wolf.

Another strategy could be to orchestrate stage works that were never meant to be operas, like Richard Strauss did with Salomé, but it takes a huge amount of work and genius. Imagine putting to music paragraphs written in prose?

>>7683298
Thanks for the tips. I'm not really into musicals tbqh, although it could be a valuable experience for beginners. However, since composing is not my day job (engineer), I was thinking about skipping that part and going directly for the real thing even if I never see it staged in my lifetime. It's an inner necessity.

I have an idea for an experimental four act neoclassical opera. It would be about a band of time-travelling musicians who battle Chronos, the god of time.

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>>7683317
>>7683238
does any of you speak German? Wagner is my fav composer but after learning German better I realised much of his libretti are gibberish, and scenes are too long (in later works music is too good to care about it, but just think about the ending of Lohengrin)

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>>7683662
there are moments which impressed me a lot though just as text - Tristan's monologues, the finale of Siegfried, almost all of Brunnhilde's lines in Die Walkuere, Brunnhilde/Wotan scenes in Die Walkuere... Die Walkuere as a whole desu

btw, fav Wagnerian male singer?
for me Windgassen and pic related

>>7683676
on the other hand, the ending to Tannhauser is the best part of the opera...

(still sthe same anon)

>>7683662
>the ending of Lohengrin
What's wrong with the ending of Lohengrin? That is just what "converted" me to opera and Wagner... Well I guess I'm not a literary person after all...

>>7683676
Male singers: Lauritz Melchior and René Kollo.

>>7683900
it should end sooner after the end of "In Fernem Land" imo - too many "twists" in the last few minutes, Lohengrin should reveal everything in one big aria with maybe one of two lines of chorus and Elsa's scream at the end

>>7683222
I personally like the bizarre dialogues Alice Goodman wrote for John Adams

And Da Ponte's work especially in Cosi fan Tutte, hilarious stuff

>>7683222
I'm blissfully ignorant of opera. Apparently there are good works out there, but I'll never see them performed or dissected here.

>>7683222
sample please.

>>7683662
I actually am German and I can confirm that Wagner's libretti are good

>>7684014
This guy knows what's up. John Adams is amazing.

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It's been a longstanding dream of mine to write an opera. I'm a poet and a writer, but I can't write music for shit. I was sort of teaching myself composition for a month, but one thing led to another and I abandoned my studies.

The dream of writing an opera still burns. I think it is the ultimate art form, since it combines all the other art forms into a unified whole. There is nothing like an opera.

I lack talent for both writing and composition. I would like to compose something but I think I will have to reconcile myself with the fact that I'm not actually a musical person.

How can I go about learning to read music? I have all my favorite composers but I know nothing but vague definitions of terms and I can't sight read. It's something I should have learned in elementary school, but it never happened.

Wow, how many composers are there on here?

I'm another one. I've written quite a few art songs, and I want to branch out into opera but I have ridiculously specific taste in poetry and I don't really like narrative. Of course there's already the perfect opera for that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oXVfksf9bM

>>7684847

Get yourself a rudiments workbook like Mark Sarnecki's. You can probably find a university music student who would also teach you for cheap.

>>7683222
Everyday I wake up I thank God that I did not develop a desire to become a composer. To imagine how daunting it must be to know that the likes of Beethoven have already created works impossible to emulate, let alone surpass in quality and capacity to affect, is simply too much. I don't know how you do it but if you can listen to the latter string quartets of Beethoven and still think there is more to be composed, then my friend you're fated to suffer a tragic life and I sincerely feel sorry for you.

>>7685028

But how do you feel about, say, Shakespeare?

>>7685148
An admirable and great man, indubitably. The difference between the writer and composer however is that a good writer can still capture something that Shakespeare, for example, did not since language extends much further than music is able to. The writer may be inspired to create something that, even if not as aesthetically pleasing as the works of Shakespeare, may still capture an aspect of life untouched by him that may benefit the reader.

With music and the hapless composer, however skilled he may be, there is a certain limit that may be traversed only by switching to a different genre (one may gain from blues what he could not find in classical for example). Classical has been mastered by the greats who devoted their whole lives to earn their immortality. You may devote your whole life and still fall short (Schumann, Brahms, Wagner would all say, if they were honest men, that they did not succeed as Beethoven did) and now, when appreciation for this sort of music is on the decline, the motivation to dedicate one's life to it is not as easy to gain as it was some centuries ago. The greatest operas have been made by Mozart; create more to your heart's content if the consciousness that your creations cannot hold to the likes of Don Giovanni does not deter you.

I cannot but think that in the modern man's divergence from God, God has withheld that divine inspiration which guided the hands of composers of the classical and romantic eras so that now if we are desirous of music, we can only look to the men who lived long before us. Good luck with your opera though OP.

>>7685287
>With music and the hapless composer, however skilled he may be, there is a certain limit that may be traversed only by switching to a different genre
Eh, when we are talking about composition we are usually talking exclusively about Western Art Music. And classical music can transport every emotion to a far greater extend than writing imo
There is, however, one thing that a writer can do at which composers often fail: telling a story. I know that instrumental music (without vocals) has often been used to tell stories (especially during and after the Romantic era) but this kind of storytelling only works once the listener is given additional information on a piece.

And this is why operas work so well in my opinion. The epic (in the original sense of the word) elements of drama are extended by the emotional depth of music, thus creating the most immersive and artistic expirience possible.

>>7684831
OP here. Tell me more about it. What do you have in mind?

>>7684845
Kek.

>>7684854
I'm surprised there are still classical composers in real life. What if we compose a collective project under a pseudonym, you know like some people say that Shakespeare was actually several shadow writers? He could be the next great one.

>>7684014
>And Da Ponte's work especially in Cosi fan Tutte, hilarious stuff

this plus metastasio are my favorites

my favourite opera and libretto is duke bluebeard's castle.

there's a good book by joseph kerman called 'opera as drama' which is all about how librettos evolved and were used and talks about how a few different operas work from a dramatic as well as a musical standpoint (and how each element supports the other)
it's really interesting reading

>>7685028
>>7685287
There are always new ways to do the same thing. One problem that I see is that in today's society the potential Beethovens don't have the right incentive to become composers. Yes, I guess you could earn a living composing (classical) music if you're talented and well connected, but it's not the same thing. Back in the day, a composer was... Someone. But society evolved (really?) and the era of the great composers is gone.

To me, however, composing is, yes, a hobby, and a very pleasing one, and it makes me happy just trying to emulate the great masters, even if just to appreciate them even more. And if there happen to be people willing to play it and hear it, then all the better.

My girlfriend works at the opera so she's been taking me for a couple years.

I've been thinking about writing like a one-act based on the song 'Laments' by Hop Along but never really felt occasioned to actually sit down to wtitig a libretto