I love this book so much. It made me realise how powerful accutations can be, even if there is no evidence behind them. I could accuse someone of being a pedophile and his life would be parctically over
>>7682499 then how are we shown throughout the book that the narrator is an unreliable one. this has to be done, an author can't just make shit up and then go: lel, i was just pretending to be reliable without ever giving a hint.
>>7682628 >>7682174 It's in that very sentence you quoted. It doesn't confirm whether he actually has done something bad, rather, that's what K thinks and the narrator simply repeats his thought. I hope you're not a native speaker?
I'll put the English translation by side for comparison: >Someone must have been telling lies about Josef K., he knew he had done nothing wrong but, one morning, he was arrested.
>>7682679 I don't get it. K does say he's innocent, and the narrator simply repeats it in that line, but doesn't confirm whether he is or not. All the information we get is from K himself, thus it's unreliable.
>>7682700 That's a pretty retarded way of looking at it. Unreliability isn't an inherent trait of characters. There have to be contextual clues to hint that they may be lying or somehow unaware of the truth for them to be considered unreliable. Whoever taught you how to read did a terrible job.
>>7682920 Whether Mersault died or not wasn't really a concern either though. The whole point of the story was that whether he committed the crime or not was irrelevant. It was because the court determined he had no sense of morality that he was condemned to die. They barely even talked about the crime.
>>7682969 The narrator is reliable, it is K that is unreliable.
>>7683030 Sounds to me like you didn't get The Trial, at all. It isn't about a game of guess whether he committed a crime or not, it's irrelevant even. The book makes perfectly good sense both ways - K committed a crime but he doesn't want to admit it / he considers his deeds not worthy of punishment, making him a complete sociopath; or the other way being he is actually innocent, which is self explanatory.
On top of that, there HAS been very weird behavior/hints from K which a genuinely innocent person wouldn't have been doing (e.g. going to court again next week when he wasn't called again and similar exaggerations) but again, that could be considered a character trait depending on your interpretation.
Sounds like Harlan Coben's "Caught". A social worker is falsely lured into a "To Catch a predator" type traphouse and exposed on national media. But it focuses more on the character of the novel's "Chris Hansen".
Alright, let's just take a look at the circumstances under which Kafka wrote "Der Prozess". He had just solved the engagement with Felice Bauer and as a result a bunch of his friends held a trial and questioned him on his intentions and stuff. Now legally speaking, this action is no crime but it has quite big social implications. Him and Felice were kind of stigmatised after that among society. They maybe both had to struggle to find another partner in order to not die alone, like K. did. So I guess you could say legally he was innocent, but the trial wasn't held in front of a usual court.
>>7687681 I'm a native speaker and you're honestly wrong. Also, if he is guilty or not is irrelevant.. it is merely the original sin in a way. Kafka is mostly writing this absurd and symbolistic stories to express his views on faith and human existence.
>>7682647 This is literally a false and shitty translation and just shows how unreliable it is to read works outside of their original language. The original sentence does not talk about Kafkas standpoint, it literally states that he had done nothing wrong.
Yet- Just because he had done nothing ''bad'' (Böses=/=Wrong), doesn't mean that he's innocent
In the very first chapter when the Castle officials say they hired no land surveyor, and later they go "wait, actually, yes", K. thinks something along the lines of "so they have taken up the challenge, this is good..!"
>>7691351 no, 'verleumden' is 'defame' or maybe 'infamize', not 'telling lies about', why would you translate a single word as multiple if a single one in the target language will do? Also, in your translation it doesn't transpire that K. thinks that he has done nothing wrong/bad (like in the original), it's the narrator saying that K. didn't do anything wrong/bad and that's just not how it is in the original. your translation is shit and you should be ashamed of yourself, baka.
>narrator said he didn't do anything wrong >no evidence the narrator is unreliable >narrator is a regular old omniscient narrator >what he says is true, what he says happened, happened >literally no reason to believe otherwise >he didn't do anything wrong
>>7692953 the narrator is just RELATING K.'s thoughts and thus uses the conjunctive to convey this, is this so hard to get. if it was the narrator who thinks K. did nothing wrong, he would have used the simple past form 'hatte'.
>>7687681 >official translation The book was published posthumously, you mong, and against the wishes of Le Epic Bug Jew. I assure you that the "official translation" written in English is in no way the definitive source of evidence to support half-baked fan theories. It's some Extended Universe shit. Apply yourself.
>>7680602 Oh man, you guys make me miss college, even my Kafka seminars in Zürich sounded like this. Wish I could participate but I'm just the old guy saying: 'Now remember, these are the best days of your lives...'
Except this is /lit/. If you come here during the best days of your life, kill yourself.
Not even gonna read more of this shitfest. K. is guilty, he did break the law, even though he has done nothing badly or wrongly. Once you get a little bit more into kafka you will see the religious, mystical background of it, which is summarized in the small story of the gatekeeper.
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