Is anybody here surrounded on a daily basis by highly "successful" people?
How do the aspiring writers among you cope with the slow, obscure ambition to get published while people your age are achieving shit?
I work in the same building as people who have attended the top fee-paying schools, the top colleges and are now succeeding in their chosen field and surrounding themselves with people who are doing the same. I feel so inferior and retarded for dedicating myself to writing. It's gotten to the point where I don't even try and talk to girls because I'm at an age (25) where I feel I should have something to my name rather than just being "ambitious".
Are there any novels that deal with this feel?
Fuck, this is so relevant. I went to an elite American university and this eats me every day. People like my writing, and I think it's going somewhere, but fuck me if it doesn't feel bad to be friends with people pulling down solid six figures straight out of school for gruntwork consulting and finance jobs while I'm still saying, "I think it's going somewhere."
Bitch role is difficult to define in my context but yes I'd say I am. There's a girl (not a colleague) here who attended a top college and so on and I feel too pathetic to approach her. I feel too old to be saying shit like "I'm trying to achieve X" because I feel I should have something to show for my time on earth so far. I don't want anything to do with my company or the "brand name", I'm just working on a novel.
Well I empathize with you, though in my case I attended a shit-tier school and an above-average (not elite) college. I mean I'm not naive enough not to realize that 90% or whatever people here are working ordinary jobs and are lucky to have them, I guess I've just fallen into a world I really didn't know existed until I joined it. Rich kids from high-fee private schools achieving shit and being extremely confident while doing so. Writing promises so little financial reward (which is fine) and takes so long to accomplish, but it's the only thing I care to do with my life (not that I expect to earn enough not to be a wagecuck until I die)
We're all going to make it
Sorry, as much as I love Zyzz, we are not all going to make it. Most of y'all suck.
I'm going to make it tho
I literally can't express how much better my life has been since I attended Oxford. I went to a state school and gradually became the stereotypical moody, withdrawn sensitive type who both despises the quality of his immediate culture and feels a weird pride for having been raised in a sort of anti-intellectual and brutal environment. I was all set to take my Russell Group humanities BA and spend my life working as an anonymous, insecure wageslave forever thankful of being offered a job and forever too insecure to pursue my creative ambitions. The chip on my shoulder had become something of a wedge, and I felt too out of place regardless of my environment, too resentful and bitter to even attempt to make it in the artistic world. Then I finally applied for Oxford and got in to study an English MA, with reassurance that should I work hard enough a career in academia or within one of Oxford's affiliated companies would be almost guaranteed. I turned up as apprehensive as usual, and the first few days were spent regretting my decision and desperately feigning a cultured personality. But then I realized that the people there were just interesting and that the snobbery and exclusivity I had anticipated was just a myth borne out of my working class upbringing. I've since graduated, having spend the year dining in grand halls with groups of interesting people, dating several girls (one of whom, a petite Russian whose family traces back to the aristocracy, is now my fiancee). I work four days a week at a publishing company and earn £38k a year. I regularly meet up with friends from my college and visit Oxford for nights out and for meetings with my professors. The Martin Eden-esque novel I have been writing for two years has been selected for publication at a major British publishing house and, honestly, I could not have imagined a few years ago how great life could be. I come on /lit/ and see how pathetic you all are and just shake my head and chuckle. If I saw you guys on the street I would of course throw you a penny or discuss Bukowski or whatever "realist" writers you enjoy, but ultimately I would be able to tell within ten seconds if you're an Oxbridge grad and would dismiss you as a potential source of good company if you are not. I never thought I'd know what it was like to be objectively better than somebody else, for the value of my existence to be superior to the value of a stranger's, but now I do and I've never been happier. People are awed by power and prestige. All I need to do is mention the university I attended (if only for a year) and they immediately begin to hunch and look at their feet because they know they are in the presence of greatness.
>getting this mad because someone in the thread mentioned going to a good school
Yeah, there will be more people making big money straight out of college at an ivy than at State Tech. If this somehow damages your self-concept, then I hope you cultivate a sturdier one.
Any suggestions on books?
Also has anybody ever dated a girl from a wealthy family and whose friends etc are all part of that sort of social circle?
I'm so besotted by this girl I keep reminding myself of her existence and making exaggerated facial expressions and tensing my muscles all around my body to express how I feel towards her.
>I'm so besotted by this girl I keep reminding myself of her existence and making exaggerated facial expressions and tensing my muscles all around my body to express how I feel towards her.
Wew lad, calm yourself Elliot.
I've dated a girl much wealthier than me (I'm American upper middle class and she's international big real estate development rich) and it was honestly pretty cool.
It might suck though if you don't have an education on par with hers.
>I went to an elite American university and this eats me every day
I almost know the feeling. I went to a shitty school, and so many people I knew went to prestigious ones. I've never managed to get over it.
>having girls be disappointed when they see your place
>having to go to a shit gym even though exercising is your favorite pass time because you can't afford a good one
>getting stranded because your car is garbage but you can't replace it
Being poor sucks, particularly if you happen to be a heterosexual male who would like to not relegate himself to where trash girls and hookers. Being friends with people who don't have to do that doesn't make it better.
>if you happen to be a heterosexual male who would like to not relegate himself to where trash girls and hookers
I relate to this. There's something about well-educated girls from wealthy families that gets me so fucking hard. I'd pretty much marry any girl who was sixteen and cute and willing to allow me to mould her into my ideal woman, but beyond the age of maybe 20 only wealthy, intelligent, cute girls are worth considering.
You must be American
Why are you constantly comparing yourself to other people? You will never be happy that way.
Comparing yourself does not produce more motivation and ambition. It produces insecurity and is detrimental to self-acceptance. There is always someone with a bigger cock
Try Epictetus, Zen, shrooms
I can see where you're coming from in some ways. I didn't say to never get frustrated at life problems. Bullshit happens. Just stop comparing yourself to others. It's a total waste of time and ultimately just frustrating.
>stop comparing yourself to others
Literally the mentality of a child or a woman. Capitalism succeeds through competition and comparison. Sexual achievements are earned through constant comparison and the superiority of your character over those of your competitors. If you drop out of the competition of life you will be nothing more than an anonymous, mediocre wage earner living a hollow life of shallow contentments, marrying someone as purposeless as yourself and only ever really existing when it's your turn to show up at the ballot box. If you aren't rich you are nothing. If you aren't handsome and charming you are nothing. If you don't demand the respect and envy of your peers are my as well not exist.
Because they have a strong competitive spirit. The problem is, you cant compare yourself with others when you dont have the same genetics, upbringing, economic situation... To be in a competition you must have the same starting points. The problem in America is that the people were taught that everybody has the same starting point and everybody has the same opportunities to succeed. Which is bullshit of course. And if you dont succeed, there is something wrong with you, you are just a bad, worthless person
>he's comparing his literary work and progress to people with ordinary jobs
>he actually feels the need to do this
Are you still able to live, as in pay for your expenses? If so, there's no need for you to be a little bitch. If you wanted to make six figures and buy a gf, why don't you work towards that instead then? Forget all about literature. "Wageslave" your way to a well-paying job and then, somewhere along the way, you can snag yourself an accessory and be happy with that for a while - until you realize you don't actually care and you've achieved nothing except for useless expenses and a higher wage to pay for said expenses. As the Schope said:
>And in any case, after some little time, we learn by experience that happiness and pleasure are a fata morgana, which, visible from afar, vanish as we approach
and even more condensed by an anon:
>happiness is a fata morgana, and to acquire something is to discover how vain it is
Do you enjoy writing? Mulling over ideas, trying to form coherent thoughts, sentences, and then throw them at the back of your mind and try again and again, until at some point you succeed and you feel satisfied by all your effort and the end result, and then start over from scratch to do it again but differently? Then keep doing that. If you keep thinking "oh boy, one day everything will be great! all this painful trudging and feelings of inadequacy will go away some day!" you'll only tire yourself out and become miserable. Not "some day", but to-day. If you're not satisfied with doing what you're doing now, why would that change a year from now, five years, ten years? If you succeed in whatever your goal is, say a critically acclaimed book, do you think your issues would disappear afterwards? What is it about achieving that goal that would make everything better? Is it the fame? The money? Recognition? You could still fail as a writer afterwards, and then people would call you a hack. What then?
If you want to make those six-figures and be able to talk to a girl and casually show her that you have some money to blow, then try to achieve that instead of writing. Then you can be calm in your mind knowing that, every day when you get up, you're working towards earning more money and hopefully a gf too, instead of being a writer.
This. I work a minimum wage job, five days a week including weekends. It pays the bills but thats it (though i do enjoy working with tropical fish).
Write to tell stories, to communicate, to envision. Dont write to get paid.
it's the same here (uk) n my experience. i've met guys at university who are from private schools and many of them conduct themselves in a confident, occasionally arrogant, way and tend to hang around with people who have similar backgrounds. many people from the south east of england tend to view anybody from the north, or from wales, scotland etc as chavs, hillbillies and so on. but yeah it sucks. a guy on my course who attended one of the best public schools in england always talks about how thick people are and so on and it repulses me. i don't mind reading about it on /lit/ since it's often ironic or whatever, but the naivety and inexperience of people raised with the assurance of their eventual success is pretty disgusting desu
Capitalism will fix your life, capitalism will make you rich, you will have a big house, fast car, big titted wife, and so on and so on. So work, donkey. Chase the American Dream. You would be a fool not to do it.
>don't write to get paid
Literally the mantra of every coffee-shop tier idiot who settles for a few poems published in his local zine (now defunct). You have to face the fact that most writers in every country and in every age were middle to upper class men who felt a strong, often narcisstic need to prove their worth and become famous. In turn they wrote most of the best literature we discuss on this board. David Foster Wallace was extremely ambitious and insecure about not measuring up to his peers. Mishima quit his first job eight months in because he needed to be famous and didn't want to settle for an obscure life. Even Pessoa was highly ambitious despite the tone he adopts in his most famous work. There are millions of real-life Bernardo Soares (or whatever his name is) who write a novel or two and then allow it to gather dust and dismissing it as an exercise in vanity. Most great achievements were the consequence of discontented, competitive men demanding that the world yield to their will. Encouraging people to just "chill out" and work for the sake of working without thought to fame, money or PTAP is just retarded and a sign of a stunted intelligence.
Meanwhile you're 34 years old writing online posts mocking the materialism of guys your age who are considering the prospect of retirement. You're reading obscure books you don't even like that much just to prop up your artistic self-image while guys much smarter and much more attuned to life are fucking girls you wouldn't even look at in public. Keep sticking it to the man, buddy. Keep mocking the system which has allowed you to live such a comfortable if inconsequential life.
>and much more attuned to life are fucking girls you wouldn't even look at in public
What a big shot you are. Let me guess, you frequent that subreddit called PUA or "the redpill" or some equivalent to that that?
Go back to your kindergarten.
Nope, why would I need to? Unlike you resentful losers I am successful with women and don't hate them because they have standards for the men they fuck. I have access to more pussy than you've ever jerked off to over the internet kid.
>Encouraging people to just "chill out" and work for the sake of working without thought to fame, money or PTAP is just retarded and a sign of a stunted intelligence.
>it's a sign of stunted intelligence to not chase the carrot of fame/money
>but striving for a deeper understanding of yourself, life in general, or whatever it may be doesn't matter
How can one person be so stupid? Do you think you're immortal? That if you get enough fame, money, women, you're going to "win" life? You're going to die all the same as everyone else, and when you do it'll be like you never even existed. Anything you achieved would be gone given enough time. Do you think you're worth more than the monks in Asia who spend their whole lives doing nothing but the bare minimum to live simply so they can meditate, to follow their belief of a perfect life? I bet you do, because there isn't enough parties, fast cars, and people to kiss your ass, right? You sound very insecure, that is if you're even being sincere at all because your next post is ridiculous.
Alright, Alright, you can drop the play now.
>Unlike you resentful losers I am successful with women and don't hate them because they have standards for the men they fuck.
>I have access to more pussy than you've ever jerked off to over the internet kid.
This has to be satire, come on now.
Define success? Most people I see are working well-paid jobs that don't give them much beyond a decent bank balance. I see people who are 'successful' and think 'jesus christ, how can somebody want to be a partner in a law firm, start in an insurance agency, etc., just so they can put a down payment on a house by the time they are 23?' I find that concept of success very depressing, despite it being the norm.
But I get why it would stress you out. If everybody else is attaining relative success you're going to feel like an underachiever.
Find what makes you happy; do it. Don't forget that you will have to work to make some money unless you want to be a dirty hippy/tramp. So you will have to whore yourself out to a certain extent. You're lucky if you get some time to write.
>you're still very bitter and unhappy
Nice projection. Did you read that in the Freud For Idiots book your mother bought you for Christmas? I mean I'm not consistently happy because I'm not stupid. But unlike you the struggles in my life lead to successes, rather than to self-pitying and vague affirmations of my own value. What do I have to be bitter about? I earn a great wage, I'm close to a nice girl who doesn't mind the fact I fuck other girls while I make up my mind as to whether I want something serious with her. I live in a great apartment and I have my health and sanity. I'm succeeding in life in a way most people, including you, will never ever comprehend. I'm speeding in the fast lane while your playing with your thumbs in slow lane traffic. The world is yielding to my will, you know how great that feels? It feels just like the way it did when I was a kid and things seemed to just work out for me. Now they're still working out, all thanks to my own dedication and hard work. So keep blaming your problems on the finest economic system ever invented. Keep deluding yourself with your amateurish attempts at psychological analysis. You're literally beneath my contempt and outside my sphere of recognition.
>I earn a great wage, I'm close to a nice girl who doesn't mind the fact I fuck other girls while I make up my mind as to whether I want something serious with her. I live in a great apartment and I have my health and sanity.
>I'm succeeding in life in a way most people, including you, will never ever comprehend.
>The world is yielding to my will, you know how great that feels?
MAKE IT STOP
I LITERALLY CANNOT STOP LAUGHING
Chuang Tzu with his bamboo pole
Was fishing in Pu river.
The Prince of Chu
Sent two vice-chancellors
With a fonnal document:
"We hereby appoint you
Chuang Tzu held his bamboo pole.
Still watching Pu river,
"I am told there is a sacred tortoise,
Offered and canonized
Three thousand years ago,
Venerated by the prince,
Wrapped in silk,
In a precious shrine
On an altar
In the Temple.
"What do you think:
Is it better to give up one's life
And leave a sacred shell
As an object of cult
In a cloud of incense
Three thousand years,
Or better to live
As a plain turtle
Dragging its tail in the mud?"
"For the turtle," said the Vice-Chancellor,
"Better to live
And drag its tail in the mud!"
"Go home!" said Chuang Tzu.
"Leave me here
To drag my tail in the mud!"
This man is spooked.
I was born into wealth. Growing up I attended to best private/prep schools, went to a top university, and now I enjoy inherited wealth with no need to work if I don't want to. I have everything I need to maintain a healthy body and more, and I have all of the essential indicators which attract the right women. I can do and have whatever I want whenever I want - including power. My poor friend would have to struggle and work for thirty years, if he's lucky, to achieve what I put no effort into attaining. And he does, he moves forward and achieves and fails and earns little by little, investing rather than taking a trip. Taking home work projects over the weekend rather than cultivating his mind, he pays attention to the trending desires of woman and goes out of his way to hide his weaknesses while displaying the correct characteristics and items which fulfill the checklist of woman's base desires. He moves from one thing to the other, paying off this loan, having that possession, meeting that guy, and impressing that person. All for what I already have. And to be honest, while I am greatful for what I have, I don't think that what he's doing is worth attaining it. And when he does I'm sure that he'll go through that familiar "mid life crisis" that comes with trading years of ones life (substance) for the attainment of that great capitalist empty spook (money, power, sex). You don't realize how capitalism manipulates your primal instincts, it takes women hostage and gives them only to those that play, it takes happiness hostage by not allowing you to experience real substance with the empty promise of finding it through "success" at the end, it transforms value judgments shaming the "non players" thus creating an atmosphere of peer pressure. But yeah, it's cool I don't mind. When, by whim, I desire power I'll need people, like you, to grant me the whip.
As others have said, success in the capitalist "go get a job so you can buy shit, get married, buy a house and buy some more shit" sense is meaningless.
I write because I enjoy it and it's a way of expressing things no one wants to talk about IRL. The lifestyle that's dangled before you by the capitalist notion of success might be satisfying on a superficial level, but if you have to act like a robot to achieve it, what's the point? Twenty years later you might realize that you still feel empty inside in spite of your success and decide to eat a gun.
Its called being realistic brah. Youre entering a highly saturated market influenced by things out of your control. And hey, your novel may be, in spite of your burning passion for fame, nothing more than coffee shop tier, deserving not of the validation of strangers you'll never meet.
I want to be famous, renowned for my efforts that I've submitted to our written culture.
I also know that we live in a world where people get rejected for legitimate artistic integrity whereas cats from youtube write best sellers.
I literally can't express how much better my life has been since I attended Oxford. I went to a state school and gradually became the stereotypical moody, withdrawn sensitive type who both despises the quality of his immediate culture and feels a weird pride for having been raised in a sort of anti-intellectual and brutal environment. I was all set to take my Russell Group humanities BA and spend my life working as an anonymous, insecure wageslave forever thankful of being offered a job and forever too insecure to pursue my creative ambitions. The chip on my shoulder had become something of a wedge, and I felt too out of place regardless of my environment, too resentful and bitter to even attempt to make it in the artistic world. Then I finally applied for Oxford and got in to study an English MA, with reassurance that should I work hard enough a career in academia or within one of Oxford's affiliated companies would be almost guaranteed. I turned up as apprehensive as usual, and the first few days were spent regretting my decision and desperately feigning a cultured personality. But then I realized that the people there were just interesting and that the snobbery and exclusivity I had anticipated was just a myth borne out of my working class upbringing. I've since graduated, having spend the year dining in grand halls with groups of interesting people, dating several girls (one of whom, a petite Russian whose family traces back to the aristocracy, is now my fiancee). I work four days a week at a publishing company and earn £38k a year. I regularly meet up with friends from my college and visit Oxford for nights out and for meetings with my professors.
I'm more concerned about the fact I don't really care. A friend who's doing well in his Lawyer firm wanted to catch up with me, I said come around mine for some drinks and a BBQ and he was keen. Dude rolls up in an Aston Martin, wearing designer wear and all that flash, he gets the shock of his life when he realizes 'my place' is actually my parents house. So me, my mom, dad and him were out in the garden drinking. eating steaks and catching up. He's doing really well and I'm living minimum wage but happy. I could tell he was looking at me with pity though.
thats why im not dumping all my cards in writing
The best writers tended to have done other things with their life before even getting published seriously
That or they fucking died and their shit was noticed after the fact
>phillip k dick
>lived off trust fund/other people being rich and schizophrenic
>dicks wife forces him to get job
>no...I-I'm a writer
>fuck better write so she doesnt get mad
>nobody gives a shit
>dies poor and alone
>asimov's whole family is rich trust fundies
>connections mean instant success
who are you talking about specifically that was recognized as a genius after suddenly writing a book before their death after retiring from the coal mines? surely not sylvia plath or some suicide case?
Also, I should add.
If the only thing you know about the world is other people's books, you aren't going to be a very good writer. Thats why the fantasy/sci-fi genre are so incestuous, and to some degree the more "literary" scene.
>Gene Wolfe had a full career as an engineer and was in the Korean War before taking writing seriously, and he only did it for money initially
>Tolkien was a linguist at heart and wrote his stories for his son's entertainment and to contextualize his languages
>Chekov did every other fucking thing in the world, while writing on the side
>So many other writers only got their full recognition after death its not even funny
you're right in more ways than one
>tfw no cute loli magic unicorn to call my own
I have a couple of lawyers in the family and they are all very proud and dedicated to their work. They seek to do their job well and gain real satisfaction from the skill, insight, and hard work required.
We seem to have no problem thinking of something like being very skilled at a martial art in terms of the character building part but for some reason their is this prevailing attitude on this board that if you get paid for it and it's not artistic then it's impossible to treat it the same way one does a martial art.
>young people aren't impressionable
>young people don't want to please authority figures
You wouldn't dispute the above statements in any other context, but because he said it about women in the context of relationships you just had to strap on your lily-white armor and lurch on over.
I feel bad for everyone who posted on this thread, including myself.
The only thing worth reading was the Zhuangzu post, and the wu wei intensifying.
Lots of silly generalizations being thrown around about writers and life. They are all different you plebs. Kaka worked a shitty job as an insurance bureaucrat and wrote his shit in the second half of his life. Other writers are different, everyone is different.
Then we got the capitalist morons talking about will, and competition, you sound like the shitty Lebowksi in The Big Lebwoski, whereas the dude is the true man of virtue. You'll waste your life in empty pursuits, while others will pursue wisdom, develop their compassion, and have genuinely intimate relations with other human beings. But you'd rater sell your soul so people who don't care about will be perxieved by you, as liking you. Talk about insanity.
Don't compare people with only one metric like money, it's the height of irrationality.
By the way, I went to an elite school and have a masters, and yet dropped out entirely of the shitty race for prestige to become a teacher. I love my life because I judge it by how I value myself and my deeds, and their actual impact on others, not by empty value judgements.
I don't even know why I bothered posting here, but I hope it reaches at least one person and is helpful.
Yo don't be so hard on yourself. Life isn't about producing something to justify yourself to others. Enjoy your time here cuz life is too short. Anyone who ever accomplished anything is going to die just like you and we will all be forgotten soon after. Once you are in a place of appreciation for the beauty around you that's where true creativity comes from.
And don't be afraid to approach her, there's no such thing as "less than" or "greater than". She's an eating and shitting human being just like you.
No one's saying you can't find fulfillment through things like that. Some people can, but they're far fewer in number than society leads you to believe they are.
Personally, I've tried and walked away from all sorts of different things. Even if the odds of earning a living through it are slim to none, writing is one of the few things I've done that doesn't make me miserable.
>only wealthy, intelligent, cute girls are worth considering
Says the broke, pseudo-intellectual, likely pretty average-looking guy
That said, fuck this thread and fuck this board. Find better shit to worry about, losers
I'm 19 years old.
I am handsome, smart, athletic and virile.
I have a novel that is in it's final editing stage, and a creative writing professor at my college has read the first draft and thinks it's saleable.
I have a girlfriend who is confident, articulate, playful and spontaneous.
I have a small group of interesting friends from different social and academic backgrounds, and I also have many other acquaintances who see me as a reliable source of humour and good company.
Both my parents are alive and in good health.
I have no regrets.
I have already experienced three existential crises, the latter of which was described as having the depth and profundity of a man twice my age.
I am a passionate lover, a sharp thinker, and a trader of witty repartee.
I am not self-pitying, meek or needlessly humble.
I will live a good life at your expense.