>tfw too dumb to read Ulysses
I really want to read the entirety of this. When I understand it, its amazing. But every 3rd sentence or so goes over my head and I have to look up the readers guide, which I hate doing.
How do I solve this? I mean what can I read and learn about to help me understand or prepare me for the language and references in Ulysses?
Please don't bully
Luckily I've taken several philosophy classes and have a basic understanding of all the major philosophers throughout history.
As far as western canon goes, any specific reccomendations?
Don't listen to the "read every book ever written before the 20th century" people. They're memers. It would help to read Hamlet, The Odyssey, Dubliners, and A Portrait of The Artist As a Young Man first. Or you could just get the Oxford World's Classics 1922 text. It has annotations in the back explaining nearly every line of the book.
Its not because /lit/. If I understand a particular sentence I get extremely bothered and obsessive over it, to the point where it becomes extremely difficult for me to move on in the book.
>read it and enjoy
Literally 1% of the people who read Ulysses do so for enjoyment, because the book goes beyond absurdity in its academic tedium. It's a literal chore to thumb through. Most people read it for a perceived academic gratification.
It's like beer: No one actually enjoys beer. People only drink because of its impact on interaction.
Just keep reading my man, and revisit Ulysses in a year or so. If it's still incomprehensible, take another year or so off and keep reading. Eventually you'll be able to get something out of it.
I'm 21. I've never actually tried beer because I've no friends and have never participated in a social event where it was warranted, but I've heard that it's shit.
It smells like shit. I looks like piss. It's probably bad.
As you get older, your tastebuds (or brain) changes and you start to enjoy bitter/different things. Stuff like olives, beer, dark chocolate, certain cheeses and other stuff. I seriously hope you will some day be able to enjoy those things because you are missing out
I could probably beat the shit out of you in the street.
I can probably type and read faster than you.
You probably piss on on the periphery of the toilet bowl and only take shits when the shower water's on.
You probably are going to die a virgin.
Come on, kin. Say "probably" to me again and see how many probably I can fling out of my ass.
Don't fucking test me. Those that get on my bad side either die fast or live wishing they were dead.
From the first page:
Buck Mulligan peeped an instant under the mirror and then covered
the bowl smartly.
--Back to barracks! he said sternly.
He added in a preacher's tone:
--For this, O dearly beloved, is the genuine Christine: body and soul and
blood and ouns. Slow music, please. Shut your eyes, gents. One moment. A
little trouble about those white corpuscles. Silence, all.
Ulysses difficulty is overstated desu and I'm saying this as a non-native English speaker
It's actually fairly easy if you just read, look up a reference here and there and don't try to squeeze out all you can from every single word. I hope no native speakers spout the "it's so hard!" meme because that'd be sad.
>le proteus was difficult meme
you just need to give heed to the ineluctable modality of the visible, my friend.
Oxen of the sun, on the other hand...
Universally that person's acumen is esteemed very little perceptive concerning whatsoever matters are being held as most profitable by mortals with sapience endowed to be studied who is ignorant of that which the most in doctrine erudite and certainly by reason of that in them high mind's ornament deserving of veneration constantly maintain when by general consent they affirm that other circumstances being equal by no exterior splendour is the prosperity of a nation more efficaciously asserted than by the measure of how far forward may have progressed the tribute of its solicitude for that proliferent continuance which of evils the original if it be absent when fortunately present constitutes the certain sign of omnipollent nature's incorrupted benefaction. For who is there who anything of some significance has apprehended but is conscious that that exterior splendour may be the surface of a downwardtending lutulent reality or on the contrary anyone so is there inilluminated as not to perceive that as no nature's boon can contend against the bounty of increase so it behoves every most just citizen to become the exhortator and admonisher of his semblables and to tremble lest what had in the past been by the nation excellently commenced might be in the future not with similar excellence accomplished if an inverecund habit shall have gradually traduced the honourable by ancestors transmitted customs to that thither of profundity that that one was audacious excessively who would have the hardihood to rise affirming that no more odious offence can for anyone be than to oblivious neglect to consign that evangel simultaneously command and promise which on all mortals with prophecy of abundance or with diminution's menace that exalted of reiteratedly procreating function ever irrevocably enjoined?
Exactly. It doesn't make much sense to me in context either. Hes talking to one guy in a stairwell.
I believe hes mocking a preacher in a joking way. I don't understand why he peeks at the shaving foam under the mirror and says "a little trouble about all those white corpuscles "
Why is this allowed. It's as though Joyce isn't even striving for coherence.
You're not supposed to litter your fucking text with references and allusions out the ass that ultimately serve to remove the reader from the experience every other sentence so they can look up what the fuck you're trying so say.
That one's not even hard. He was making fun of the catholic mass while subtly alluding to satanism by corrupting christ into christine (the black mass supposedly involves using a woman's body as an "altar).
It's a reference to the Eucharist. Where the communion wafer is thought to be transubstantiated into Christ's body and the wine into his blood. He's making a mockery of the whole thing while performing the "ritual" of shaving. Mulligan jokes around a lot but all of his jokes are heretical or have malicious undertones, it tells you a lot about his character once you understand it.
Can someone remind me why this is supposed to be a bad thing? 90% of the time it just looks like a justification used by borderline-illiterate retards to rag on things that make them feel dumb.
Irish art, in success, is always some discoursive form of secondary, or 'ad hoc' law. It's personal, without being either permanent or punitive.
The first thing to understand is that the word 'Celtic' won't help you much, unless the text describes some Thracian gladiatorial event.
It would be far wiser to make use of Milesian history in viewing Irish literature. There is something Ionian, something Elegiac about the authors' works. The Ionian philosophers disposed of pagan 'ad hoc' law which has acquired too much strength. In response, each thinker chose their own element (water, air, etc.) as a kind of primary law, and then began a philosophy of these elements as a form of secondary law.
So the philosophers had their own 'avatar' or 'token' element, which they philosophized about. Ulysses is probably Joyce's own token element, and his lineage represents a kind of strict law structure, while Joyce himself is allowed to codify ad hoc laws throughout the book.
I don't think you'll get this, but Primary law is centred around divine, unitary principles. Or it purports to be.
Secondary law is man-made law in this context. It could include a penal code, or a philosophy, or even a form of art. It might be a form of situational poetry.
because only insecure little fucks read books written specifically to display cleverness on the part of the writer and reader
it annoys the fuck out of everyone else to have pathetic creatures scurrying about smugly and talking unendingly of what they consider their impressive feats
this state of affairs is what masturbatory works allow
No one does that. Ever. You're only projecting your own inferiority complex.
How are they pathetic for producing and enjoying things you don't like? You talking about how pathetic you think they are seems a lot more pathetic than any of them, desu.
I took a look at Amazon and the notes seemed extensive enough --more than 200 pages. Also, it's quite a cheap edition!
Would that suffice for a non native English speaker in order to comprehend it a little or, at least, enjoy the reading?
I don't want to read it translated since it's the kind of literature that loses most of its essence in the process (well, as far as I'm concerned).
Joyce was incredibly arrogant, yes, but reducing something like Ulysses to the arrogance behind it is just petty and anti-intellectual. If everyone was afraid of expressing themselves the way they wanted to because no one wanted to be seen as arrogant, then we'd never get anything but simplistic, mediocre garbage.
"i'm not talking about ulysses specifically"
look i'll own up and say i should've clearer that i'm defending the use of masturbatory as a pejorative but in the last comment that i literally am not talking about james joyce's work
like i'm not going to lie i'm never going to read him because it does look like try hard garbage and i've already got a decent backlog of things i'm actually excited about but i haven't read it so i'm not gonna boldly stake out claims i can't back up
either way it's fine to like his books and maybe there's a lot in there i'll just never see but don't act like his fans aren't often annoying try-hards with far more presumption of intelligence than actual intelligence
Don't know anon. I've heard so many things about it and read a myriad of quotes and it seems pretty rough to me. I'm a non native speaker as well as u and trying to pull off a decent level on this language.
is there any difference between the older one?
How much better/worse would you consider this book to be in the coherence department, compared to Ulysses?
I can see why someone would think all beer is terrible if they've only had shit like budweiser or fosters or whatever other cheap shit kids drink gallons of. I prefer whiskey myelf but there is good beer out there.
You're talking shit about others for being pretentious but you're literally jerking yourself off for "not reading 'tryhard' books"
you're exactly what you're talking about you retard
It's a challenge, but it's actually fun to read unlike Ulysses. The resounding silliness of it is enough to get you through, and the shit relating to the war and the V2 rockets is really fascinating.
Try listening to it, then reading it.
Here's a professional cast reading the entire novel.
If you're still stuck, spend a year reading poetry and then come back to it.
Ulysses is plenty of fun once you get into it. It's not nearly as dry as memer kids who bitch about how hard it is like to think.
I was actually surprised by how funny it was because I was expecting some sort of dreary old academic tome that no one enjoys.
All you really need is Hamlet and Portrait of Artist
I read it without having read odysseus even (the stories of the cyclops, aeolius, etc are basically pop culture; you will be able to spot them easily in the book, or with quick wikipedia readthrough).
And for the more obscure references:
I was about to make this thread, OP.
I bought the book today, and I've got to say -- no book in college was ever this difficult to read compared to Ulysses. I read the first couple pages and I have no idea what's going on. I really have to adapt to this -- it's one of the few books I have to keep keen interest in the act of reading; I mean, keeping completely, entirely focused.