Why do you idolise this "tragic writer" lifestyle, /lit/? Why do you love the moustache man and hemingway, insanity, sadness, tragedy and the misunderstood artist? Is that what you want in your future? Crank out a few books, find nothing to fill the void, and off yourself?
I just don't get it.
those are marketing gimmicks created by the capitalist publishing industry...remember that speech where Hunter Thompson is like "I don't know if you guys want to speak as Hunter Thompson or 'Hunter Thompson' and like shoot off a gun and down some whiskey"
they need something to blame their lack of progress and success upon.
i have completed no works because i am sad, lonely, insane, misunderstood.
my works are not famous because i am misunderstood by the masses. if only the masses knew what a tortured soul i am.
truth is you just suck mang
I don't, but people do because they don't live it in their own flesh. I used to romanticize depression and melancholy until I found myself on psychiatric and psychological treatment in my early twenties due to severe depression and a suicide attempt. Then I stopped romanticizing this kind of things and taking mental illness for what they are.
It's worrisome for me for several reasons, mainly because I've encountered other people in similar situations who today would have a good life if they had gotten the necessary treatment for their mental illness.
>inb4 nice blog post m8
I'm sorry, but I'm bothered by the thought that some people should be on therapy and/or psychiatric treatment and choose not to do so because
>muh literary lifestyle
I don't get it either but a close friend of mine thinks you have to suffer and roll in the gutter to write. This is his apartment.
the default dream for people with poor work ethic and minimal talent is usually "become a professional musician", being a "tragic writer" is the fall back dream of people who can't play any instruments..."movie star" is the fall back dream for people who can't play any instruments and can't read but can sit in front of a tv
I really like Robinson Jeffers approach more. Build houses, observe nature, nurse injured animals, steal some rich man's wife and take her away to a cabin in Big Sur to raise a family. I like that more than Hemingways get drunk, shoot lions and kill fish schtick. Or Pessoa's get drunk go back to my room and write poetry for my imaginary friends weirdness.
But Hemingway did write A Clean Well Lighted Place. And I did like some of Pessoa's imaginary friend Caiero's poetry. So I can enjoy their work, while wanting no part of their lifestyle.
For, since it lacks the faculties of reflection, joys and sorrow cannot accumulate in the animal as they do in man through memory and anticipation. He excels the animal in his capacity for enjoying intellectual pleasures, to be sure, and these are available to him in many degrees, from the simplest jesting and conversation up to the highest achievements of the mind; but as a counterweight to this, on the side of suffering stands boredom, which is unknown to the animals at least in the state of nature and is only very slightly perceptible in the very cleverest domesticated ones, while to man it has become a veritable scourge.
People want to think something that they like can come out of their lives, because, even if they superficially dislike their lives, they don't know of any other way they could be living them; the depressed is depressed because they think it's not really a choice, because it's the way they should be living life, and even if it's an ugly way they still think it's the right way.
ten bucks says u can find a bunch of anthropology papers on jstor about how beta chimps get depressed when they see the chad chimp hump all the chimp chicks in front of them, luckily chimps aren't clever enough to dream up some kind of ideology about how the chad chimp is a loser and the beta chimps are all genius artists or the kind of sad shit humans resort to when they are too weak to actualize their wills
>I don't understand that the Hemingway's failure to achieve his masculine ideal is precisely what makes his literature so psychologically complex and praiseworthy, but here's my opinion anyways
Honestly you're a bit of moron and your post only highlights your total ignorance of literary criticism in general. Hemingway's posturing isn't some secret that only you and his detractors are aware of; it's an essential part of his identity and most of his writing indirectly addresses it in some form or another. You've clearly never read Indian Camp or any major analysis of Hemingway's writing, and if you did, you didn't understand them, which should be embarrassing because they're both taught to high schoolers.
Want and boredom are indeed the twin poles of human life. Finally it remains to be mentioned that with man sexual gratification is tied to a very obstinate selectivity which is sometimes intensified into a more or less passionate love. Thus sexuality becomes for man a source of brief pleasure and protracted suffering.
This is kind of an odd thought, but shouldn't we be defining shitty objectively in terms of results?
As in, white males have the highest suicide rate, so it seems that they have the shittiest lives, being purely objective about it. Only they have the courage of their convictions.
Their experience is qualitatively worse than any other race or gender.
yeah, it's like the "bored and white" experience is worth someone writing about once or twice, but it's been done...we don't need anymore...and cheap asian knock-offs like Tao Lin's "ABC and bored" bullshit is even more unwanted
The only thing that seems to suck worse is being an American Indian.
>mfw half-white half-Lakota and i turn 28
Psych treatments don't work. It's not even a real science. Sometimes they do more harm then good. I've gone through the blah-blah mental ward, suicide, etc. And those suckers wanted to cut my wings and snip my balls. And my balls were small enough back then. I know a girl who's been diagnosed with OCD and all her medication and therapy hasn't gotten her anywhere. People need to get back to basics. What do we expect when the normal life for so many people is filled with loneliness, lack of love, lack of mutual, fulfilling relationships, and a real purpose.
Someone, maybe MLK Jr or something, said if you haven't found something worth dying for you haven't found something worth living for. It's things like that which give us life, not psychiatry and medication. Those are just more pillows and blankets.
Why do we idolize fatalistic, woe-is-me writers? Because we identify with them, unlike most of us, they've still managed to wrestle through their pain and struggles to produce (sometimes, arguably) meaningful works that contribute to society even if they themselves feel absolutely shitty and worthless. They're gladiators of a different sort. If you don't get that, OP, you haven't suffered and have no business presuming.
>you haven't suffered and have no business presuming.
OP here. It's because I have suffered that I don't want to go through it again. By idolising suffering with "muh art" you encourage people to live with misery rather than confront their problems.
Suffering is good, in a way, at least for mental and character growth. But that doesn't mean you should idolise it and seek it out, since by living you will suffer anyway. More suffering doesn't mean more growth after a while, it plateaus out with a maximum value.
Everyone likes to feel special. Plus, there's a certain masochistic quality in this suffering.
"Look at poor little me, so alone, so suffering (while having three meals a day, a roof over my head, and a moderately or well paying job), alone knowing the nihilistic truth of the universe, (which is only my personal perception that was formed as result of boredom and routine and which is probably bull since I'm only twenty something or younger and don't have either sufficient experience of knowledge to make such absolute statements about the universe or human life) and smugly smiling at these "stupid baboons" who know nothing of the world (although I've never talked with them and never asked about their existentialist and ontological views) and whose meaning in life (which is an absolute truth as gravity, totally not a result of my personal perception) is satisfy the desires of their flesh (it's not like I'm jealous of them; no, nothing of that kind.I'm so advanced in the suppression of my desires that I make Buddha look bad)."
In short, it's an ego trip. Furthermore, people here enjoy suffering because they think that, by comparing their suffering to that of acclaimed writers and seeing all the "similarities," they are one step closer to them. After all, all the famous writers became famous because of suffering, not because of providing new and creative ideas and views on human life or just interesting and creative and beautifully written literature.
Some of what you say is true. Especially about idolizing suffering, that's retarded. Apologies to the retards reading.
However, as you said, there's plenty of suffering to go around and regardless of seeking it out or not, we're going to suffer. But it doesn't plateau out as in, this is the most I can get out of suffering. Like you said, it's a byproduct.
So the question then isn't whether to suffer or not, it's for what do you suffer?
Someone posted about going out into the woods and kicking it old school. There's suffering in that but you surely grow from it.
When we run from suffering. Like beta-max anons who will not approach a girl or step outside of their comfort zones then that's a cause for depression and low self-esteem. You won't go through suffering again if you don't go through the same mistakes and patterns. If it's outside of your control and you suffer from an unfair world (it happens, no SJW) then that suffering may be inescapable and art is one of the few consolations and vehicles for progress.
So yeah. Don't idolize suffering, but understand that it's a crucial element of any real maturation process. And if you suffer for something you truly believe in, then the sting of it is even lost.
Psychiatric treatment does work you fucking mong. Psychiatry isn't psychoanalysis, the efficacy of psychopharmaceuticals and CBT and ECT has been empirically demonstrated. You are literally on the same level as anti-vaxxers.
>I know a girl who's been diagnosed with OCD and all her medication and therapy hasn't gotten her anywhere.
Yeah, and some people die of cancer even though they get chemotherapy, or of infections even though they get antibiotics. Maybe we should shut down all the hospitals since medicine is clearly a sham. Maybe we should "get back to basics" and eat ecological food or something and then cancer will go away by itself. And maybe you're right about psychiatry: maybe the best treatment for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and severe depression with psychotic features is to just give the patients self-help books about finding purpose in life or something. Why give people evidence-based treatments that save tons of lives (and dramatically improve countless more) every year when we can just quote MLK Jr. instead?
You're a moron.
If you're doing it right and are fully dedicated to your passions you can't do things which allow you to have excess money, friends, good fortune etc.
I have never enjoyed any work I've read that was written by someone ''entitled'' and writing just because he thinks it's ''cool''...Like alot of you middle class hipster cunts.
The majority of wannabe writers and artists do not know suffering and true desperation. How can these people teach others anything?
If you're living the ''tragic starving artist'' lifestyle out of choice...You will amount to nothing. If you have tried to live a normal life and failed... there is hope for you still.
OP is just mad and a little discouraged that all of the greatest writers, artists, thinkers of all time, all suffered greatly and lived in poverty and ruin.
Congratulations... You're the Justin Bieber's of the writing world. Enjoy a life of mediocrity and endless half truths while you write meaningless shit on your shitty macbook or ''le ironic hipster typewriter''
Mfw Hemingway was the turning- point in my life, stopping my craving for melancholy and making me want to live my life to the fullest
Yeah, it's pathetic. Most of the people here force themselves to go into a faux depression so they can feel existential and deep.
They're literally damaging themselves and their potential because they want to imitate people of the past instead of being individuals and creating something unique and origianl.
>implying being a primitive animal, uncapable of rational thinking and conciousness, isn't the blessings of the gods.
I think it's simpler than that. A lot of people here happen to be depressed, a lot of great writers were /sad/, so it gives a feeling of not being alone to appreciate their work and feel similar.
>As in, white males have the highest suicide rate
pretty sure japanese males have the highest suicide rate in the world.
also how the fuck is suicide an indicator for quality of life or quality of experience as youc all it? you're fucking stupid. if anything suicide is an indicator for mental illness.
As in, white males have the highest suicide rate, so it seems that they have the shittiest lives, being purely objective about it. Only they have the courage of their convictions.
you're reaching so hard
>Implying any of those things mean fucking anything
Fuck off back to tumblr, you dumb cunt. Most of the greatest writers to have ever lived probably fall under the things he mentioned.
how fucking dense can one person be? are you braindamaged? he didn't say they weren't great writes, he said they have an objectively higher quality of life and therefore no need to complain.
>>Implying any of those things mean fucking anything
yeah, they do mean something, can you read? they mean "if you think sub saharan africa has a better quality of life then europe you should hang yourself". that's what these words mean.
>pretty sure japanese males have the highest suicide rate in the world
I had no idea this was still a meme, senpai. Are you a US-American citizen of the 'Trump or Revolution' persuasion, by any chance? Please reply at your earliest convenience, s e n p a i.
I'm not a Burger(trademark)Citizien actually.
Still, though, no America and only two European countries in the top 10 (and not particulary wealthy ones either) so I think my point still stands.
I just wanted to correct your meme, s e n p a i. I don't waste my emotional energy getting in arguments on the internet. You feel free to enjoy them, though, my dude. Thank you also for your expedient reply, d e s u.
>he thinks the world works in black and white
>he's actually a psuedo intellectual
you spend too much time on the internet faggot
>how fucking dense can one person be? are you braindamaged?
>can you read?
Someone's mad... You must be a ''poc''
>but they weren't sad bois who whined like women and niggers
what is most poetry
what is most of writers best works at all
most of them just moan in their own way
back to tumblr cunt, you're an sjw
I romanticised it in my late teens/early twenties, but that stuff gets old quick.
Now I romanticise negative hedonism and living an extremely quiet, comfy and anonymous existence.
oblivion s t r e t c h e s its e m b r a c e and y o u step f o r w a r d, not r e a l i s i n g your m i s t a k e, never r e a l i s i n g.
h a v e
d o n e?
you've d o n e nothing. n o t a t h i n g. pompei i s burning.
h e h e
l m a o
SJW's most of the time, are everything I despise in a human being.
Entitled spoiled, bratty, grownup children who were raised under the most average conditions you can imagine telling others how they should live their lives while exaggerating every bad thing that's ever happened to them to the point of madness... and all so that they can feel abit better about themselves and their worthless, boring fucking lives.
It's like when rich girls with nice upbringings suddenly rebel and become heroin addicts, or criminals, sluts etc... They'll never know how it feels to be like the others that aren't just doing it as a ''phase'' or ''experiment''
It's the same for writers, artists etc. Alot of people are just hobbyists who should have never left the bedroom, so to speak.
You're an actual faggot, aren't you?
See above post. It applies to you.
IMA POC /
AY IMA POC/
SUCK MY COCK/
NIGGA SUCK MY COCK/
DELIVERY AT THE DOC/
MY DOUGH BE PILIN/
MY HOMIES WILDIN/
FUCKBOY IMA POC/
PUT YOUR HEAD IN A LOCK/
BLAST YA FACE OFF
9 MILLIMETER GLOCK/
>SJW's most of the time, are everything I despise in a human being.
clearly related to /lit/
>It's like when rich girls with nice upbringings suddenly rebel and become heroin addicts, or criminals, sluts etc.
>It's the same for writers, artists etc
clearly this poster is trying to improve the quality of the literature(tm) board with his literature(tm) relevant posting
carry on, litposter
is it ok if i have tumblr and 4chan open together? i often have a lot of tabs open at once, h e h e, for example a t m i have open face book and twitter and gmail and youtube and (pls don't hate me)
t u m b l rand 4chan. is that ok if i fuck off back to tumblr but also have 4chan open and still post here? i don't want to miss out on this literature(tm) discussion
faggot gay homosexual assgiver queer asspirate nancy poof fairy pansy dyke donut puncher todger dodger back door bandit brownie king chi chi man cockpipe cosmonaut fudge packer harry hoofter pillow biter matress muncher ring raider shit stabber turd burglar sausage lifter ha ha gay people amirite ha ha fucking faggots amirite
Why are you even posting here with this ironic meme posting shitposting bollocks?
You realise you're on 4chan... The message you're trying to send isn't fucking working, idiot. This is not Tumblr.
>tfw hes fresh from tumblr and thinks everyone has to be civil and nice to eachother at all times
>MUST NOT SAY THE WORD FAGGOT
Get the fuck out of here, retard.
in sjw-brainwashing-academy we sang this every morning at assembly, the only day we didn't have to was penis/inverse-vagina/? inspection day, h a h a, thank you for reminding me :-)
> This is not Tumblr.
oh my, sorry i was not aware. i will correct my mistake this instant and fuck off back to the tumblr, which is clearly where i came from. i spend my days and tumblr and my nights on tumblr, with my sjwlgbtpoc friends (not actual friends rather random people i know over the internet) and we talk about how difficult it is to check our privilege every day over a (virtual) pumpkin spice chai latté (thats tumblr slang for coffe, you would not know) it is my deepest desire to bring tumblr culture forward to the four chan and thereby push forward the cultural marxist trademark agenda that is rooted so deeply in all of my thinking
au c o n t r a i r e , monsieur, j e am a n oldfag t o have b u t a-rècentement d i s c o v e r è d the a m a z i n g site t u m b l e r r. how could have je have lived so long - s o,
l o n g - without knowing this site's b-e-a-eauty? je what's more can post there sans no non notposting here! hurroo, hurroo!
ah, argh! je wish u would see it, monsieur! :-)
but um, i can triforce my dude? i must not be n e w(trade('s hall) mark(x)) after all, non?
oh no! my triforce is a-kaputt, i must-a be-a new-a after all-a, ha h a ha
He said "autistic" because his little brain can't handle the fact that I actually did some work and wrote a series of books. Certainly, because I have a little imagination, picked a direction and went in it, then I must be some Sonic the hedgehog fanfiction writing cellerdweller. The "war criminal" thing comes from the night I did a live feed of my writing room and there were government military documents lying out. #nowarcriminal. Btw, I'm going to market soon. The first book of the series will be out in about 60 days and the press release will reveal that I'm going to deliver a subsequent new novel in the series every 6 months afterward for the next five years. I give you my word that it contains 0% hedgehog. It took me 9 years to write it while balancing full time jobs, putting myself through college, and keeping a healthy marriage. If I had knocked out the whole thing in like a year and a half while being served chicken tendies by my mother then sure, take a shot
It worked for me, and in a way still does. Psychiatric treatment made me less suicidal (although I felt absolutely nothing for a couple of weeks). Therapy helped me because it has been the only place I feel I can talk and be considered a "normal" human being - I'm quite an odd person, and even if people won't say it because they want to be polite, you can see in their eyes when they think you're an abnormal creature and some sort of alien. Because of that, I barely talk to anyone, thus therapy is where I do most of my talking every week.
>you're fucking stupid. if anything suicide is an indicator for mental illness.
suicide as an indicator of mental illness got blown out by durkheim before your mother was born. regardless, if you're going to cite japanese males based on their honor suicide meme, it would be an indication of something other than mental illness having a greater effect.
you're not even reaching, you're just plain not thinking. read durkheim on suicide if you want to know more.
I said you're autistic because it's obvious from anyone observing the behaviour of a figurine collecting forty-year old manchild who writes series of 11 books about anime-mecha while dressed as a goth. I said "war criminal" because those military documents referred to the year you'd been kept in solitary.