>In the early 1990s, Wallace became obsessed with the memoirist Mary Karr. Despite her statements that she was not interested, Wallace got her name tattooed on his body and even contemplated killing her husband, according to biographer D.T. Max. The two later had a tumultuous relationship during which, Karr reported, Wallace once threw a coffee table at her and attempted to push her out of a car.
>“I hated The Broom of the System,” Karr says. “I thought it was one of the worst books ever written.” She felt Wallace was “showing off,” writing fiction that pointed to all that he’d read rather than stirring feeling in the reader. And wasn’t that the point? If the literary bright white guys were going to follow in the line of the bright white guys of a generation before, she wasn’t interested.
This one's my favorite
>Wallace is reported to have slept with some of his female students while teaching at university and sometimes exhibited stalking-like obsessive behavior when enamored of a woman.
>Interviews with DFW and he says he probably learned more from his students than they from him.
Because she's better looking than your average collage girl.
>As I’ve said, the best parts of David Foster Wallace’s fiction are nonfiction.
A fleshlight is delightfully firm too, and will be about as imaginative in the bedroom as your average* 18 year old.
A 40 year old knows what she wants and how to take it and you'll enjoy giving it. 40 is familiar with her body. 40 is uninhibited by moral restraints. 40 isn't frightened, 40 is aching to lower her dripping wet quim onto your stiffness, engulfing you then riding you like she's trying to snap it off. 40 won't tell her giggling adolescent friends that you're a pervert for asking if she'd ever try anal, 40 will ask if you've showered then bury her tongue in your asshole like she's bobbing for apples.
*With the exception of crazy. Crazy is a crazy good lay but don't stick your dick in crazy.
Q: Here’s a great writer who never wrote a memoir: David Foster Wallace. He’s become a hero or a martyr or something since his death. You knew him: Have you been surprised how he’s become a pop-culture figure?
He’s a great genius and people love the work and it’s a terrible tragedy to lose a writer of that caliber. The whole St. David thing, to people who knew him (laughs)… it’s a little hard to take.
David was a very troubled guy for most of his life, obviously. He flatlined before he was 21 years old. He was trying to kill himself; I had suicidal ideation, or I was depressed, I never had what he had.
I think it’s a horrible, tragic story.
Q: Do people misremember him now?
People who didn’t know him misremember him. People talk about how obsequiously polite he was. Like when I met him he called me “Miss Karr.”
But it [was] kind of mocking almost, if you knew him. It was so insincere and Eddie Haskell. It was kind of a really… That’s not what he was like. He was snarky and snappish and difficult, you know… He was not that damn careful.
The whole St. David thing, I don’t know. I loved him, it was a great tragedy, but the people who knew him well… He was not long-suffering; he was a pretty angry guy. At least, when I knew him. I believed he had gotten better. I believed his rap, what he told me. Obviously that was not true.
If that's true then it only substantiates my claim.
Q: Did you see the movie?
No. As I understand it – I haven’t seen it – the family is dimly horrified. I don’t want to see it.
While watching the movie I just couldn't get over the fact that they portrayed a thirty-something man acting like a teenager from high-school when it came to the argument between him and Lipsky (Jesse Eisenberg). Oh, and when he was watching TV, Jason Segel was trying too hard. So hard that it made him look like he was retarded or with down syndrome.
Makes sense in context too, if they're horrified by it but too dignified to stir up a fuss and would rather simply be left to grieve undisturbed, dimly fits perfectly.
If you can't see that immediately you might have an autism spectrum level understanding of human nature.
Or maybe foreign
A lot of people have been pretty vocal about the whole Saint David thing since he died. Bret Easton Ellis is VERY vocal about it but, of course, everyone chalks that up to jealousy. And they're probably right, to an extent.
Here's a pretty long essay that pretty much sums up his feelings about Wallace and that movie:
And if you look up pretty much any interview or essay his former editor, Gerald Howard, has said on the matter, in most of them he uses the term Saint Dave term like you can see him doing sarcastic air quotes every time.
Look I'm trying to help you out of your cesspool of dirty foreignerspeak, but you just can't be wrong like that if u want any1 2 respect u, son
>Broom of the System
I thought that referred to pick related.
I have no idea who she is but she was 100% right about his attitude. Watch that one roundtable discussion with him, Franzen, Mark Leyner and Charlie Rose. He comes off like a snappy douche there.
>I'm amazed that no one ever actually reads Mary Karr
Well what do you expect from /lit/ (/r9k/'s little brother)? If the author is a woman, she automatically gets banished to reddit and all her books are 'trash'.
I never heard of her until today. Actually i love a lot of woman writers, i don't think the whole "woman can't do anything" argument applies on /lit/. I saw a lot of Zadie Smith entusiasts here for one
I don't speak for all of /lit/ but I have no problems with women. It's just that most famous authors of both genders are incredibly shitty. For every James Joyce there are twenty John Greens. I'm sure there great books by women out there, it's just that we've never heard of most of them because they're buried under piles of generic shit.
Were St. Augustine and Rousseau's memoirs egotistical and fake?
Life-writing is a very real and important field of writing and just because that technically the celebrity autobiographies at the grocery store are 'memoirs,' there is a very broad field of great literary memoirs from Orwell to Virginia Woolf to Nabokov to Mary Karr.
Happy holidays /lit/, here's 'Lit' by Mary Karr
Saint Augustine and Rousseau weren't writing for the late 20th/ early 21st century American publishing industry. Do you know how memoirs are published these days? It's the fakest shit ever.
Mate, no one is contending Russ Brand and supermarket literature matter in the field of memoir. The literary memoir is real, and they are still written for other reasons than for the publishing industry. It is true that anyone with half a name can just crank out some garbage autobiography, but that's not what it really is. A good memoir is sort of like a novel, that's definitely how it works with Karr
Of course Rousseau or Nabokov or Caesars memoirs are gold, but that's because they got something to teach and their life and work deserve that point of view from them too.
But if your book is -like a good 90% of modern memoir- about how hard was your childhood with alcoholic mother or the great and spiritual journey in India you had last year well i can't spend money and time on that
I'm not the guy your initial response was for. I know there are good memoirs out there but comparing the contemporary memoir in general to things like Saint Augustine's or Rousseau's writing is just nonsensical.
>muh I have no idea what the modern publishing process for nonfiction is like
I don't like childhood memoirs because the narrators are often positioned as blameless and they don't get into muh psychological insight, but Mary's in particular is basically the whole tale of her life, from some glimpses of the childhood through when she set out to become a writer (a poet, actually) to parenthood and her own alcoholism and having to cope with the world to function as a parent. I dunno, a great memoir in that tradition of baring all out of love and not self aggrandizement is as good as any novel when done right. Especially because it offers real precedents for the way people literally behave in the world, not just how fiction imagines human behavior.
Yeah, publishing is gross but you're being too jaded. Just because they crank out shit doesn't mean there aren't real writers working in all sorts of fields. A good memoir is like the lovechild of journalism and the novel.
>be young, angry guy
>can't redeem yourself by expressing your pain in fiercely relateable, erudite prose
Why even bothrr
gifted Mary Karr to my east coast flapper stepmom, she loved it
she got my sportswriter dad to read it, and he loved it
they asked my step-mom's working artist brother-in-law if he had read it and he said that he had loved it, and gifted it to his wife, who is on some board or other at a private east coast university
then i gifted it to my girlfriend for xmas, and she loved it
>twenty and sixteen and people still sleep on mary karr
>This is the movie that prefers the Wallace who was knighted into sainthood with his Kenyon commencement speech called—deep breath—“This Is Water: Some Thoughts Delivered on a Significant Occasion About Living a Compassionate Life,” which even his staunchest defenders and former editors have a hard time stomaching, arguing it’s the worst thing he ever wrote, but becoming a viral sensation as well as a soggy self-help guide for lost souls.
Is the speech really that bad? Am I an idiot for liking it?
If you think that's bad, you're gonna freak over what "Saint David" did in the 2000s.
Man was fucking insane
>Were St. Augustine and Rousseau's memoirs egotistical and fake?
Those people accomplished things. This woman banged DFW and is desperately, vainly riding on the coattails of that faux fame. I like plenty of female authors but this is a perfect example of why people on here happily dismiss them
Pull out a revolver and shoot him in the fucking head if it comes to that. Jesus Christ. Don't let this, frankly, ugly motherfucker creep on you, and certainly don't give in to him.
>so like the only people who read serious fiction are people who don't watch tv
omg it's every hunger games defender ever. he even does the smug white girl college sjw face that catty fembois have been imitating since when they were still called wealthy socialites. too good.
>It is not the least bit coincidental that adults who
commit suicide with firearms almost always shoot themselves in the head.
And the truth is that most of these suicides are actually dead long before
they pull the trigger.
>It is not the least bit coincidental that adults who commit suicide with firearms almost always shoot themselves in the head.
Exactly what is the point being made here? Where are they supposed to shoot themselves when committing suicide? The fucking foot?
he said something about the brain being responsible for depression so it's symbolic and shit that people shoo themselves in the head
Honestly just feptittic confusion of reality and symbology from an intellectual. The reason people shoot themselves in the head is because that is 100% the best place to shoot yourself if you want to die painlessly.
I have had 35-45 year old FWBs who were REALLY good for their age, extremely fit, kept healthy, great skin, and I've fucked several 16-19 olds and dated two
I would take a completely clueless 16 year old over the sexiest most erotically talented 45 year old, 40 year old, even 30 year old, even 25 year old, literally every time. Even early twentysomethings are already turning to flab, and getting those subtle signs of wear and tear, the wrinkles around the eyes, the slightly "tired" look. Already setting in at 21. By 23-25 it's dumpsterville. Don't even get me started on their disgusting darkened sad looking vaginas.
Nothing, NOTHING can beat youth. They have perfect bodies. A 16 year old's thighs are the most amazing things in the entire universe. I don't care if you give the best blowjobs in history, I would rather bite into the ass of a teenager.
>Nothing, NOTHING can beat youth. They have perfect bodies. A 16 year old's thighs are the most amazing things in the entire universe. I don't care if you give the best blowjobs in history, I would rather bite into the ass of a teenager.
They absolutely look at each other and Franzen definitely smirks but David's facing the other way so it's hard to tell
That "enlighten me" was catty as fuck though, he also sounded like a supreme douche when he said something to the effect that if you were to put Franzen and Leyner into a blender you would get something better (himself). The look on Franzen and Leyner's faces suggests that that wasn't meant as a lighthearted joke, it was subtly hostile
Weird friendship those two had
there is a nuanced difference between what franzen said and what wallace surmises from it. the form of argumentation he is using is the same as what hunger games fans use to represent that franchise as just as good as any other book.
>fried by the internet
>because i remember what the rl version of that argument was before the internet meant facebook
k babby 2/10 because i genuinely believe your life might be as vapid and meaningless as wallace's
found this whole interchange p depressing
I am a man; just the idea of an older woman no matter what she did unable to go back to 16 years old and nobody really caring past her early 20s. to have peaked so soon. and just the way you can't hide from the truth. It's really depressing
I am without the world of interchange between the sexes; that is pure theology to me.
It's just the average lifespan is almost up about 80 years now. That's 2 years of having legal sex & attention then 78 years of growing increasingly desperate and being basically world-abhorred
also, an' if she be a nice girl, then all those years her heart will stay the same but everything around it rot in ignorance to her insides
not to mention too that I all missed it; sleek thighs lithe arms & the dulcet sound of a young voice bound in love to you
The best thing is that they don't just "become old" at some milestone, but get to slide precipitously into unwantedness alongside younger, cuter girls.
Basically how it works is this: In high school you are universally loved and wanted even if you're not very pretty. You may not fully realize or understand it, but men treat you about 400% better than they treat each other. You are incapable of being invisible. Then you go to college, and you're:
a) surrounded by hot young studly dick 24/7,
b) even more (and more overtly) worshiped than in high school,
c) more conscious of that worship and better able to embrace it.
You can have all those wonderful flings Plath talks about, an exciting new lover every week. You are incapable of being out of a relationship. Every fling is Interesting, because high quality men are willing to woo you and court you even if it's only for sex. This is the peak of a woman's existence. This is everything their unconscious wants from the world: to be wanted, to be at the centre of things, to have pick of the litter.
But then you graduate college. Now you are mostly in a workplace. Your endless roiling sea of suppliant penises has been reduced to eleven people you see regularly, four of which are men, and three of those are disgusting and one is an average beta male you literally would not have even seen if he had stood in front of you in college, he would have been so invisible in terms of suitor quality. Now you need some other way to feel wanted 24/7. So you start going on Tinder and having meaningless sex, or you start getting subtly desperate to maintain old flames. You can't just wait for them to come to you anymore.
And all the time you notice the facade is starting to crack. You're the prettiest young thing in the office, for a year. And then, just as you're starting to wonder in the back of your mind whether you aren't "in the prime of youth" anymore, as the first wrinkles and blemishes set in, a new girl is hired. She's not even as pretty as you, but those four dud men at the office pay more attention to her because she's younger, and suddenly it bothers you not to receive their constant smiles and attention.
Every year it gets a little worse. Your metabolism goes to shit around 23-24 and you get some flab that doesn't seem to go away. Now you see young pert girls and realize: "that's what I used to look like." Used to. Every month it comes into greater and greater relief that you're old. Your smarter friends are getting married - some of them already have two or three kids, and seem to have lives that are more interesting than Instagramming about hanging out with "ur gurls" from college at a restaurant, and feeling like an old cougar put out to pasture, or hooking up with a handsome med student on Tinder who uses you for oral sex but you secretly know you're lying to yourself (and the gurls) that it's more than that.
Then, finally, you become as invisible as average men were in college. Forever.
Now I'm actually happy I'm a man and I can still make it when I'm 30.
In general, people need to deal with the fact that attractiveness is fleeting and not bestowed on everyone. Furthermore, they should really realize that there is more to life than fucking, and that being unable to fuck really isn't the end of the world or particularly tragic.
Not even a virgin in denial, just saying.
If you think I'm a girl, you're even more retarded than that guy.
Think of it this way. If someone walks into a library and starts going on and on about how much pussy they're getting, what does that say about them?
dfw described IJ as a "means to Mary Karr's end"
The conversation arose naturally in context, mon petit spergette
And if you think any of that Supposedly Depressing Conversation was false you should try removing your rose tinted glasses :^)
>the mating habits of normies
how ugmo were the grills in grad school that you came up with this as a research subject?
i'm genuinely interested, this shit got too normie for me when you said high school to not read it like a weird fairy tale. i don't know if you're quoting IRL menes or r9k, pls halp
kek, i'm not sure if i'm meant to be a beta or a whore because i thought high school chicks are hottest discussion was normie. i could be a beta whore, this high school shit would still sound like the normie fairy tale land and i'm still not sure that exists except in lies twelve year old strangers tell me on the internet.
wow, you're trying to meme yourself into looking poorly read on an anime site. you really don't have to try that hard, though you should probably keep the sentence structure up so you fit in.
>According to the National Center for Health Statistics 50 percent of marriages in the United States end in divorce. Of the marriages that end in divorce, 80 percent of the divorces are initiated (filed) by women.
Enjoy your alimono-cuckoldry.
I read this somewhere too, but added to it was that after Wallace broke the table, Karr billed him for $100 as compensation. Wallace gave her the $100 but asked for the broken pieces of the table back, since he had "paid" for them, but Karr said that she had already used the pieces as firewood and that all he paid for was the "brokenness".
do you think he ever asked her if she wanted to try banal sex?
I'm a 19-year-old woman and I found it pretty depressing too, anon. It's gross what these people are saying, but only because it's something that much of society truly does think but rarely says so frankly.
I've realized for a long time now that my body is a ticking bomb, and I'm worried for what will happen to me with age. I have a boyfriend and have never had a one-night stand, but I get depressed wondering if my boyfriend feels like I'm just getting worse every year... Thanks for having some empathy for the other half of the species though, anon. We have empathy for you too.
Female attractiveness rarely has to do with fucking, though. Attractiveness allows women to be treated like (though still not thought of like) men, i.e., like human beings. This /is/ because they're being objectified, but objectification is the constant state of women anyways--it doesn't disappear in unattractive women, it just becomes pronouncedly negative. The ugly woman is an ugly object; the pretty woman is an attractive one. A woman's entire self-worth depends on how men and the media appraise her appearance. Without that, she has nothing to offer. Even the average man still has potential, because his worth is based on his output as an individual, which does not fade superficially or with time, only with will. A woman has no control over her fading attractiveness; after it's gone, she has no hope of being anything but another unwanted object.
he really doesn't, i don't give a shit if he lacks the mental capacity to understand meme authors, but he apparently thinks proving he can meme wallace memes will convince me his problem with my sentence structure won't show up again with mccarthy. poor fucker, dumb and concerned with being seen with au fait, he mistakes one style for another and doesn't even seen what people are laughing at.
> CTRL+F "Cormac"
> 0 results
> CTRL+F "Erdrich"
> 0 results
> CTRL+F "Philip Roth"
> 0 results
You fucking reddit infiltrators don't know the first goddamned thing about tumultuous artistic relationships fuck me.
> McCarthy went into the couple’s shared bedroom then emerged wearing nothing but white lingerie and “a silver handgun in her vagina,” police wrote in the probable cause statement.
> The woman started having sex with the handgun, her boyfriend told cops, and asked him, “Who is crazy, you or me?”
> Got a Guggenheim
> Is a MacArthur genuis
> Won a Pulitzer
> Won a National Book Award
> Won a Critics Circle award
> Won a PEN
> Nicknamed "tortillas" on an anonymous imageboard
Yeah fuck that guy
Of course it is. At 40 her judgement has matured so much more than a 20 yo giggling air-head, who's only waiting to get drunk on a Friday night. Have you ever tried to hold up a conversation (not necessarily about literature) with women of different ages? It's disheartening to see how disarticulated, boring and self-righteous the young ones are. Or maybe I'm not surrounded by the right kind of people.
I didn't expect this attitude from /lit/. Are women—possible partners—only cumdumpsters to you? Doesn't intelect/rational/a developed personality play an important role in any kind of relationship? Don't you expect a certain degree of intelligence? How do you hold up a conversation post-sex? What about pillow talk? Don't tell me you fall asleep right after.
No. Regardless of your definition of art (whether you're of the school that believes it's whatever's presented as art, or one of those fags who thinks it's whatever society collectively decides to view as art), the fact that he's won well-known awards for literary artistry shows that what he's done is, indeed, art.
Brah, my implication was that Cormac can get fucked b/c some rando on an anonymous imageboard gave him a derogatory nickname. In fact, it wan't even implied -- that's what I wrote.
Learn to read
>Doesn't intelect/rational/a developed personality play an important role in any kind of relationship?
that's not what women are for, it's foolish to expect any woman to be rational or intellectually accomplished
not to mention women only develop such things in the absence of physical attractiveness out of necessity, not even out of real interest
Specialization. I go to other people for stimulating conversation. My woman just needs to be sexy and submissive to be what I need her to be. realistically what more could you ask for
Your partner in crime. Your best friend. Your confident. A pillar to lean on in troubled times. A helping hand and a comfortable communicator, whichever the subject might be (I don't expect her to be a know-it-all in literature, but a little spark of curiosity doesn't hurt). And you know… the clichéic ‘other half’. Don't you get tired of superficial, mechanical sex after a coupe of times? Don't you desire deep conversations with (supposedly) your closest person who knows you better than anyone?
For a board that deals with literature, philosophy and the human nature, I'm amazed of how shallow some replies in this thread are. All these books discussed here have no use if you can't learn anything from them.
I'm not a religious person, but /lit/'s Christian posters seem to be very hypocritical to me. Not much different than animals with physical needs that have to be satisfied by someone of the opposite sex.
And let's suppose that for whatever reason she’s not that well versed in the literary field. Wouldn't you like to roleplay as a teacher and give her recommendations and discuss it with her afterwards? Introduce her to the patrician lifestyle? People can develop even after they've finished high-school.
How did I agree with what they're saying? Look, it's depressing thinking about how the female gender (which includes me) is societally looked upon as an object of beauty rather than as an agent of her own will. It's not my fault that society thinks that, and it is the opposite of misogynistic to get upset at society for thinking it.
If you think that’s Disney, than so is Beatrice, Dulcinea, Eurydice, Thisbe, Héloïse, M. Curie, Shakespeare’s poems, Ars Amatoria and so on. And can you please stop using “le” all the time? You know who does that…