>>7644105 I truly think these are the worst of these recent fantasy trilogies/series/etc. I read Name of the Wind twice and The Wise Man's Fear once, and I honestly think they're trash. They grab a bunch of interesting concepts from previous works, then throw them together in a half-baked format. They're padded. They're some of the worst paced fantasy novels of the last ten years.
If you want a legitimately great recent fantasy series to read, I highly recommend R. Scott Bakker's "Prince of Nothing" trilogy (there's a sequel trilogy but you can deal with that when you get to it). I honestly believe it transcends the genre at times; it's largely fantastic.
A Song of Ice and Fire is good. The prose is awful but the characters are some of the best developed in fantasy. The story itself is also quite strong at times.
If by "similar readings" you mean truly similar, like that kind of not-quite-YA-but-almost fantasy, then you may as well just read Brandon Sanderson. He's more earnest and prolific and, while his prose often isn't as good as Rothfuss', it doesn't get in the way of the story by being transparently awful like Rothfuss' occasionally does. His Mistborn series is his most interesting conceptually, but The Way of Kings is his best overall book.
You may also enjoy Daniel Abraham or Joe Abercrombie, though they're quite a lot different tonally from Rothfuss (Bakker is too but he's so great I just have to recommend him).
>>7644372 Can you be a bit more specific please >They grab a bunch of interesting concepts from previous works, then throw them together in a half-baked format. They're padded. They're some of the worst paced fantasy novels of the last ten years. I thought the world building was one of the most gucci shit about the book
>>7644454 What do you mean I should be more specific about? I think they are bad novels. I think they have poor pacing, poor character development, clunky structure, one-dimensional characters, and I find the tone personally unappealing. I also recommended some other fantasy series, a few I personally enjoy and think are great, and some similar to Rothfuss that I personally think are better.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to dislike Rothfuss; if they enjoy his works then good for them. I gave some reasons why I strongly dislike his works. Then I offered some works I think are better. What's confusing about this? You might think the worldbuilding is good, I thought it was derivative, and not in the "oh interesting combination of different elements from other works and genres" the way something like Star Wars accomplished, but in the "wow this is blatantly reproducing things in a derivative way" Tarantino style.
Plenty. Not me though. When I got to the section over twelve fucking pages of some mentor character literally explaining how the magic system or whatever worked in the novel, I realised the author was some sort of amateur hack who'd somehow gotten published.
If you want good YA fantasy, try Sanderson.
If you want good modern fantasy, try Abercrombie, Bakker, Abraham,
If you want mediocre YA-ish fantasy, try Jordan.
If you like the interesting concepts of Rothfuss but not the actual writing, try Gaiman.
If you want some great fantasy from decades past, I suggest Vance.
>>7644475 One's taste is a symptom of something deeper. No, no, no, this is not purely subjective. There is a reason Shakespeare and Joyce and whoever else have been lauded over successive generations and across borders. If you can't appreciate a work deemed wonderful by millions, that attests to a problem in you, not the book. Perhaps you should learn to free yourself from this parochial view that you seem to have of literature, and your need to adhere to a specific set of internalized rules that, for whatever reason, you believe good fantasy should follow.
>>7644105 Joe Abercrombie's trilogy and the heroes, the lies of locke lamora, the early malazan books of the fallen and gene wolfe are all better than this masturbatory mary sue crap, and thats not saying much.
>>7644470 >>7644499 It isnt good fantasy. It has the literary quality of a calvin and hobbes collection or a slightly above average d&d campaign run by neets who have oneitis/hatred for a certain girl. Drizzt books are better, at least they embrace their pulp nature
>>7644543 >Drizzt books are better, at least they embrace their pulp nature
I like when genre fic embraces its own nature. Earnestness like that is endearing. It's why I think Sanderson is a much more pleasant read than his contemporaries who aspire to something greater. He's just a geeky dork brimming with love of fantasy, and it shows. Rothfuss does edgy shit trying to reach for actual literary value and it's embarrassing. I do love R Scott "edgelord" Bakker though; but he actually has skill.
I know you're not attacking mate, that other bloke was being a hostile troll but I'm not going to react with anything other than earnest pleasantness to actual conversation.
I read the book twice in its year of release and not anytime since then so some of this is cloudly for me, but
Half-baked concepts: *The magic system - a cheap rip-off Sanderson-style systems (if you enjoyed the magic system in Name of the Wind, you'd love literally any of Sanderson's. His gimmick is creative magic systems) *The structure - felt like a cheap attempt at a legendarium sort of thing. *The uncertain narration was tilted way too much in the protag's favour to be worthwhile including. *General lore and mythology was just dull and derivative
>>7644563 Nope, I'll add it to the list, thanks for the rec.
>Its possible to write great genre fic
Yup, and it's thrilling when it works right. Fantasy doesn't have as many great works as a genre like westerns, but who knows, maybe in twenty years we'll get there.
I mean, I guess we just have to agree to disagree her. I legitimately think his prose is bad. My favourite author is Dostoevsky if my taste means anything.
I hate the term "Mary Sue" for being reductive and conversation-ending, but Name of the Wind is one of the few cases where I believe it applies perfectly. The character is so dull and boring because of this, and the half-hearted attempt at doing "unreliable narration" just isn't earnest enough to make it work. In my opinion. Also, Rothfuss just can't write women characters at all. But yeah, too often the two books delve into the author making a point, or talking basically directly to the reader (blatantly explaining his magic, blatantly using the protag as a mouthpiece)...this is generally agreed to be a convention of bad writing.
As for edginess, first thing that comes to mind is the raping of two young girls by a demon or something (long time since I read these, sorry, can't remember all the fantasy specific terms), then protag does "hella epic" bloodbath of everyone, ending in him gloating about how they deserved to be killed. It truly felt like a fourteen year old's attempt at depth to me. Always irks me when rape is used solely as a plot device to bolster a protag's development too; I think authors should stay away from serious issues until they're skilled enough to actually write them well. If you read genre lit you have to get used to that fast though.
>>7644602 >Rothfuss just can't write women characters at all Good observation. He writes his ideal woman like the wizard that he is. You know his only experiences have been with greasy haired fashion challenged women with lit degrees and wicca shirts on, and that he has never experienced anything like Denna.
I dunno if ill be able to bring myself to read the third one, but considering he is transitioning into writing vidya who cares.
>>7644612 Agreed. Martin has his flaws (especially with his prose), but I will give him this: he seriously knows how to write women. Probably the best fantasy author I can think of in terms of writing women.
>I dunno if ill be able to bring myself to read the third one, but considering he is transitioning into writing vidya who cares.
Oh yeah he's writing some of the new Torment isn't he? Not sure how I feel about that.
>>7644630 >Not just that, he has like 5 projects going.
Weird, I wonder why he made that transition? Surely the money isn't better, is it?
I know Sanderson wrote some mobile games and the story for a Mistborn game that will never be made, but he still cranks out a novel or two or three or four a year. So Rothfuss is legit properly transitioning to vidya?
Can someone please explain why book series exist and why it's not just one book with multiple volumes when the plot and author's thoughts are not finished in the "first book" and when you can't read the "second book" without knowing what is going on in the first one?
>>7644602 >The magic system - a cheap rip-off Sanderson-style systems Which one? The naming aspect of magic is a direct rip off tales of earth sea. The quasi-scientific parts of it personally I have never seen it presented in such a satisfying way. >General lore and mythology was just dull and derivative For me the lore and mythology is comfy as fuck. It's a cool mix of new and old fantasy tropes but done respectfully so. Kinda like Neil Gaiman Sandman. Your other critiques I can see them being fair. >As for edginess, first thing that comes to mind is the raping of two young girls by a demon or something (long time since I read these, sorry, can't remember all the fantasy specific terms), then protag does "hella epic" bloodbath of everyone, ending in him gloating about how they deserved to be killed. It truly felt like a fourteen year old's attempt at depth to me. Always irks me when rape is used solely as a plot device to bolster a protag's development too; I think authors should stay away from serious issues until they're skilled enough to actually write them well. If you read genre lit you have to get used to that fast though. I think your missing a big part of Kvoth narration. We are not reading Pat writing about kvoth but kvoth writing about kvoth, and i think he does some intresting things in the book if you look at it again. Also i don't remember this rape at all tbqh famfam
I'm not well-read, roughly around 20 books in my entire life. So my question might seem dumb.
You guys seem to have a prejudice towards an author explaining a fantasy system in a rather direct way, in this case you mean the mentor explaining how magic works, akin to reading a manual. I understand the dryness of it, but doesn't it make it convenient (in a good way) since by the time you are presented with it you still have a very very big chunk of mythology and backstory to digest? I appreciate it, but again, it might have to do with my inexperience in the art. Can someone tell me a way to give the reader that kind of information in a more subtle way without it going over his/her head?
In another note, perhaps this is a case of the author underestimating the readership. Perhaps we should also question what demographic this was intended for... Unless that is also a mistake on my part.
>>7645355 I think he means the fake edema ruh taking the town mayor's daughter and that other dark haired girl.
The series might end up pretty good if Kvothe ends up being the wimpy faggot portrayed at the end of 2, instead of Taborlin the second. But it won't, he'll be a little god and his catamite will gush cream from his boipussy. Also, I have no idea how he is possibly going to jam all the shit that needs to be jammed into the last book.
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