So I'm starting with the greeks, and I bought pic related.
But I'm wondering, because this is poetry, is it supposed to be read in a certain way? Should I read it aloud? I've read that some people consider this translation to be 'stacked prose'. Are there better poetic translations?
I'm reading the Iliad in the form of pic related to my 5 year old, and she is really fucking into it. She wishes there was more Helen and Hera, but thats disney princess culture for you.
>She wishes there was more Helen and Hera
She's either gonna be a huge slut or a nagging, conniving bitch.
Have fun, dude.
Don't read it with modern attitudes towards poetry; yes, it's oral, and there is a meter, but that's it. Anything else modern you bring to it kinda distorts it--it's not modern poetry. Sure, the sound may or may not be cool to listen to, but the point is to pay attention to the contents. It was a text more important for what it taught the Greeks; concerns with aesthetics are distortions.
It's fine either way; if you want to read Fagles, by all means, go ahead, it's entertaining, but it's modeled on modern poetry, and whether the translation reflects the "poetic character" of the Iliad misses the point if it's forgotten that "poetry" to an ancient Greek didn't mean what it does to a modern.
(The words "poet" and "poetry" are derived from mean "to make" or "produce", though sometimes also to act or to do. What we moderns tend to recognize most readily about Homer's poetry as such, the fact that the Iliad and Odyssey are metered, is a *part* of what makes them "made-things" or "produced-things". The use of elements of well known myths to emphasize certain teachings is the other part.)
I can read Attic Greek, and the translation I've read that gets closest is Lattimore's though it lacks the flair of Fagles and Lombardo. I'm not saying that you should choose one translation over another, I'm rather saying that you don't need to overly complicate your reading with a concern for reading it "as poetry", since the concern is anachronistic to the text anyway.
Fagles is fuckin tite, don't listen to these losers.
The whole point is to get a real fuckin neat-o rage boner and listen to the Greek homies eatin a bunch of animals.
Fagles will mention over and over again homies getting hit in the nipple and he even calls people bitches.
A GOOD FUCKIN TIME
Fitzgerald is pretty good. Sometimes it only *seems* like he takes liberties; some of his choices are just more "poetic" sounding translations that are still pretty much accurate.
He's closer to the text than Fagles and Lombardo, but not as much as Lattimore.
You fucking blew. Might as well watch that movie with Patrick-less.
Assuming I've read Fagles and want to reread (at least parts of) it again to get fresh perspective, which translation would be best?
I've gathered that Fagles is good because it aimed to be entertaining and fit the mood of the original, but that it isn't a very close translation. I've heard Lattimore is the closest to the original?
Zeus likes his wife, he just likes tail too. He is the over god, he gets to have his cake and eat it too, and he knows all Hera can do is push his sons to greatness.
In the Iliad he is jerked round by Thetis Aphrodite Athene and Ares more.
Sure, which doesn't change the fact that I can make my way around Homeric Greek.
Hell, someone who's studied primarily Koine could make their way around Homeric Greek.
All I'm saying is that being in a position to read well the main Greek canon, I'm also in a not terrible position to make my way around the Greek of the Iliad and Odyssey for the purpose of comparing translations.
lol what hera a shit. Always scheming behind zeus's back. She is the definition of beguilement. She forces her sons and daughters to do shit behind zeus even though they know that it would get them in deep shit.
Helens shit too. Always goes on about muh Hector im so sorry to essential fuck you and you entire generation of family and your people forever. Boo hoo i dont have any friends in troy except for you.
Zeus straight up calls her a biatch to her face. He says multiple times that he will fuckign obliterate her if she crosses the line and Hera keeps that in mind too. She does play her little games, although ultimately listening to her brother/husband. He is threatening the same way your father gives you the death glare but loves you so he doesnt beat the ever loving shit out of you
its homer not fagles. I read the fitzgerald translation and every time someone is speared it hits them through/close to the nipple, or goes thorught the head/pierces their cuirass as black death shrouds their eyes/ fall back as life leaves their body/fall down on the ground digging their fingers thorugh the dirt and clenching the ground as their breath leaves their body
Diomedes. He supposedly is the youngest king there and the most experienced. He is GOAT, almost kills hector, doesnt give a fuck and starts fighting the gods themselves and ares flees the battle screaming in the voice of ten thousand men (like a lil bitch)
May be a silly question but is Fitzgerald non-native english speaker friendly?
Can't find any good verse version in spanish.
I mean I can read basic stuff like Edith Hamilton's Mythology but still.
Not really. Fitzgerald uses some peculiar choices. Lattimore is more straightforward, and, in this case, Fagles and Lombardo sometimes use modern English idiomatic phrases that would probably be perfectly familiar to you.
It was actually fairly uncommon for people in ancient Greece to read silently. Even when alone they read aloud (if I remember correctly.) So if you want to get in the spirit of things, do so. An English translation may work against this however, but do what you want. in any way you prefer. Try as they might, no one will actually kill you for fucking this up.
I would suggest pirating some different translations and leafing through each of them a bit before deciding on the one you'll never finish, though. It doesn't matter which one is the most accurate or patrician. Find one you like, and quit that one.
>and now her imaginary friend is "baby bias", a mutilated messianic spirit that is constantly on fire.
What the fuck have you been reading to her before this shit.
The basic customs of the ancient Greeks are not an obscure subject, so you can google this yourself. If I remembered some specific document that described it or gossiped about some fucking weirdo who didn't read aloud to himself, I'd give it to you. But I don't, and I'm not going to bother looking for one.
I think Augustine (much later then the ancient Greeks, admittedly) discussed this in Book 6, chapter 3 of the Confessions:
"When [Ambrose] read, his eyes scanned the page and his heart sought out the meaning, but his voice was silent and his tongue was still. Anyone could approach him freely and guests were not commonly announced, so that often, when we came to visit him, we found him reading like this in silence, for he never read aloud."
The rest of the surrounding passage seems to suggest that this is unusual, but probably not as totally unheard of as some people make it out to be.
Norse mythology, the New Testament minus the miracles, Dinotopia, Greek Mythology, all the gutenberg picture books, joan of arc picture books, illustrated classics, lots of jack london, picture books of mayan and near east mythology..
I took away her baby bias drawing because it was a bloody sun who will "save us all"