[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
So I'm starting with the greeks, and...
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature

Thread replies: 79
Thread images: 7
So I'm starting with the greeks, and I bought pic related.

But I'm wondering, because this is poetry, is it supposed to be read in a certain way? Should I read it aloud? I've read that some people consider this translation to be 'stacked prose'. Are there better poetic translations?
>>
In the intro to that I think it answers your question. I don't know if its true or not though.
>>
>>7632155
Fagles is the absolute worst translation of the Iliad fyi
>>
>>7632159
Pleb: Fagles
Normie: Lattimore
Patrician: Fitzgerald
>>
>>7632190
>Patrician
>translation
I wouldn't trust this
>>
>>7632190
POPE
O
P
E
>>
>>7632201
Pope is not a translation, it's a remake

Still good in his own right though
>>
>>7632201
Chapman
>>
>>7632155
I'm reading the Iliad in the form of pic related to my 5 year old, and she is really fucking into it. She wishes there was more Helen and Hera, but thats disney princess culture for you.
>>
File: 1423612194163.jpg (90 KB, 480x360) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1423612194163.jpg
90 KB, 480x360
>>7632294
>She wishes there was more Helen and Hera
She's either gonna be a huge slut or a nagging, conniving bitch.

Have fun, dude.
>>
>all these dilettantes with their hierarchies of translations not learning ancient greek
>>
>>7632294
>She wishes there was more Helen and Hera

Looks like you made a pleb

Take her to the sea so the ocean may claim her
>>
Stanley Lombardo's translation is as good as Homer gets in English.

It even says so on the back of the book.

Seriously though, Lombardo version based af.
>>
>>7632307
Hey, never do that unless you're promised good sailing beforehand. You only have so many kids to sacrifice.
>>
>>7632155
Don't read it with modern attitudes towards poetry; yes, it's oral, and there is a meter, but that's it. Anything else modern you bring to it kinda distorts it--it's not modern poetry. Sure, the sound may or may not be cool to listen to, but the point is to pay attention to the contents. It was a text more important for what it taught the Greeks; concerns with aesthetics are distortions.
>>
>>7632320
So should I be reading a prose translation then?
>>
>>7632302
>>7632307
We cover ethics later in Plutarch and gospel of Matthew

>>7632318
She asked my wife about child sacrifice after listening to one of my audio lectures about Phoenician archaeology, and now her imaginary friend is "baby bias", a mutilated messianic spirit that is constantly on fire.
>>
Reading Lattimore right now and it is god tier.

Agamemnon confirmed for cunt in first 5 pages.
>>
>>7632331
It's fine either way; if you want to read Fagles, by all means, go ahead, it's entertaining, but it's modeled on modern poetry, and whether the translation reflects the "poetic character" of the Iliad misses the point if it's forgotten that "poetry" to an ancient Greek didn't mean what it does to a modern.

(The words "poet" and "poetry" are derived from mean "to make" or "produce", though sometimes also to act or to do. What we moderns tend to recognize most readily about Homer's poetry as such, the fact that the Iliad and Odyssey are metered, is a *part* of what makes them "made-things" or "produced-things". The use of elements of well known myths to emphasize certain teachings is the other part.)

I can read Attic Greek, and the translation I've read that gets closest is Lattimore's though it lacks the flair of Fagles and Lombardo. I'm not saying that you should choose one translation over another, I'm rather saying that you don't need to overly complicate your reading with a concern for reading it "as poetry", since the concern is anachronistic to the text anyway.
>>
>>7632422
This was enlightening. Thanks.
>>
Fagles is fuckin tite, don't listen to these losers.

The whole point is to get a real fuckin neat-o rage boner and listen to the Greek homies eatin a bunch of animals.

Fagles will mention over and over again homies getting hit in the nipple and he even calls people bitches.

A GOOD FUCKIN TIME
>>
>>7632302
Just thank God she isn't into Achilles. Could you imagine the tantrums?
>>
>>7632422
what about fitzgerald?
>>
>>7633799
Fitzgerald is great.
>>
>>7633799
Fitzgerald is pretty good. Sometimes it only *seems* like he takes liberties; some of his choices are just more "poetic" sounding translations that are still pretty much accurate.

He's closer to the text than Fagles and Lombardo, but not as much as Lattimore.
>>
>>7633813
>>7633963
thanks guys, been on the fence concerning what translation I'll be getting for awhile, but I am pretty sure i'll be getting the Fitzgerald translation.
>>
Guys guys, iz this good?
>>
Shut the fuck up about your translations and let's have a patrician discussion about the book.

Diomedes vs. Ajax. Who would win?
>>
>>7634431
Ajax
>>
>>7632343
>her imaginary friend is "baby bias", a mutilated messianic spirit that is constantly on fire.

I don't know how to interpret this. Good job, bro
>>
>>7634431
I laffed. But the only true answer is whoever happens to have the best gods on side.
>>
>>7632294
Hera's a great character, though, and Helen gets some nice sections.
>>
>>7634628
I've not read the Iliad yet, but all I know of Hera is that she's a scheming jealous bitch who will punish only the victims of Zeus' lust. Am I wrong?
>>
>fagles
You fucking blew. Might as well watch that movie with Patrick-less.
>>
Assuming I've read Fagles and want to reread (at least parts of) it again to get fresh perspective, which translation would be best?

I've gathered that Fagles is good because it aimed to be entertaining and fit the mood of the original, but that it isn't a very close translation. I've heard Lattimore is the closest to the original?
>>
>>7634815
Yes, Lattimore is close to the original. Read the thread.
>>
>>7634669
In the Illiad shes more catty than Jealous, its more of a bitchfest that Zeus would prefer to stay out of.
>>
>>7634868
>In the Illiad shes more catty than Jealous, its more of a bitchfest that Zeus would prefer to stay out of.
*Iliad
>>
>>7634787
I now they say never to end a sentence with a preposition but honestly you should have considered it :/
>>
>>7634922
*know
>>
>>7634868
Why can't Zeus do anything about her? That's what I want to know.
>>
>>7634943
Zeus likes his wife, he just likes tail too. He is the over god, he gets to have his cake and eat it too, and he knows all Hera can do is push his sons to greatness.

In the Iliad he is jerked round by Thetis Aphrodite Athene and Ares more.
>>
>>7634943
Pussy game ridiculous
>>
>>7634964
I've read he likes to beat her if she really steps out of line. Ares initially seems really intimidating but then it turns out he's just really whiny.
>>
All this talk of translation has me confused. Should I get whichever version I feel like/come across first and try different ones out later, or should I grab Fitzgerald's and stick with it?
>>
>>7635866
Campbell or nothing.
>>
>>7632190
The fact that you differentiated between pleb and normie leads me to believe your opinion is trash.
>>
>>7632294
Oh my God, I have vague memories of reading these and have been searching for them for quite some time. Thank you, anon.
>>
>>7632422
>I can read Attic Greek

Except the Iliad is in Homeric Greek.
>>
>>7637885
Sure, which doesn't change the fact that I can make my way around Homeric Greek.

Hell, someone who's studied primarily Koine could make their way around Homeric Greek.

All I'm saying is that being in a position to read well the main Greek canon, I'm also in a not terrible position to make my way around the Greek of the Iliad and Odyssey for the purpose of comparing translations.
>>
>>7632190
MERILL
E
R
I
L
L
>>
>>7634628
lol what hera a shit. Always scheming behind zeus's back. She is the definition of beguilement. She forces her sons and daughters to do shit behind zeus even though they know that it would get them in deep shit.

Helens shit too. Always goes on about muh Hector im so sorry to essential fuck you and you entire generation of family and your people forever. Boo hoo i dont have any friends in troy except for you.

>>7634943
Zeus straight up calls her a biatch to her face. He says multiple times that he will fuckign obliterate her if she crosses the line and Hera keeps that in mind too. She does play her little games, although ultimately listening to her brother/husband. He is threatening the same way your father gives you the death glare but loves you so he doesnt beat the ever loving shit out of you
>>
>>7632695
its homer not fagles. I read the fitzgerald translation and every time someone is speared it hits them through/close to the nipple, or goes thorught the head/pierces their cuirass as black death shrouds their eyes/ fall back as life leaves their body/fall down on the ground digging their fingers thorugh the dirt and clenching the ground as their breath leaves their body
>>
>>7634431
Diomedes. He supposedly is the youngest king there and the most experienced. He is GOAT, almost kills hector, doesnt give a fuck and starts fighting the gods themselves and ares flees the battle screaming in the voice of ten thousand men (like a lil bitch)
>>
May be a silly question but is Fitzgerald non-native english speaker friendly?
Can't find any good verse version in spanish.
I mean I can read basic stuff like Edith Hamilton's Mythology but still.
>>
>>7638361
Not really. Fitzgerald uses some peculiar choices. Lattimore is more straightforward, and, in this case, Fagles and Lombardo sometimes use modern English idiomatic phrases that would probably be perfectly familiar to you.
>>
>>7638407
Thanks. I will try Lattimore and see what happens.
>>
>>7632294
I read this to a girl a babysat (and eventually dated) when I was trying to teach English, illustrations are good for that.

Her English is still pretty bad though.
>>
File: 1447458900133.png (10 KB, 489x423) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1447458900133.png
10 KB, 489x423
>>7638457
>a girl a babysat (and eventually dated)
>>
>>7638655
Over 7 years later.
>>
>>7638660
Still, pretty weird to me.
>>
>>7638666
Why? 13 is old enough.
>>
>>7632155

It was actually fairly uncommon for people in ancient Greece to read silently. Even when alone they read aloud (if I remember correctly.) So if you want to get in the spirit of things, do so. An English translation may work against this however, but do what you want. in any way you prefer. Try as they might, no one will actually kill you for fucking this up.

I would suggest pirating some different translations and leafing through each of them a bit before deciding on the one you'll never finish, though. It doesn't matter which one is the most accurate or patrician. Find one you like, and quit that one.
>>
>>7639063
show me the ancient document that says people read aloud while alone.
>>
>>7632343

>and now her imaginary friend is "baby bias", a mutilated messianic spirit that is constantly on fire.

What the fuck have you been reading to her before this shit.

Jesus Christ.

Don't stop.
>>
>>7639069


The basic customs of the ancient Greeks are not an obscure subject, so you can google this yourself. If I remembered some specific document that described it or gossiped about some fucking weirdo who didn't read aloud to himself, I'd give it to you. But I don't, and I'm not going to bother looking for one.
>>
>>7639069
>>7639111
I think Augustine (much later then the ancient Greeks, admittedly) discussed this in Book 6, chapter 3 of the Confessions:

"When [Ambrose] read, his eyes scanned the page and his heart sought out the meaning, but his voice was silent and his tongue was still. Anyone could approach him freely and guests were not commonly announced, so that often, when we came to visit him, we found him reading like this in silence, for he never read aloud."

The rest of the surrounding passage seems to suggest that this is unusual, but probably not as totally unheard of as some people make it out to be.
>>
>>7639063
>>7639069
>fairly uncommon
First ever person attested to internalise their reading was St Ambrose in 350+ AD
>>
>>7634431
Heart says Ajax

Brain says Diomedes, he did after all BTFO Aphrodite and Ares (with a little help but still)
>>
File: greeksfighting.jpg (32 KB, 480x345) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
greeksfighting.jpg
32 KB, 480x345
DIOMEDES VS. ACHILLES

WHO WINS THIS SHIT
>>
What should I read if I want to understand Marlowe?
>>
>>7639075
Norse mythology, the New Testament minus the miracles, Dinotopia, Greek Mythology, all the gutenberg picture books, joan of arc picture books, illustrated classics, lots of jack london, picture books of mayan and near east mythology..

I took away her baby bias drawing because it was a bloody sun who will "save us all"
>>
>>7640366
Diomedes of course. Achilles is a whiny cunt.
>>
>>7638673
Dafuq?
>>
>>7640661
Can you please teach us your ways or perhaps even write a book on raising a patrician youth?
>>
>>7639063
I was reading some Plato and there was a throwaway line which seemed to imply silent reading, but as a slightly unusual thing that marked out the studious.
>>
>>7639063
Reading aloud is really exhausting.
>>
honestly it will take you at most 6 months to learn to read ancient greek

and then you can read countless classics, canonized works and obscure delights as intended
>>
>>7634922
underrated contribution
Thread replies: 79
Thread images: 7
Thread DB ID: 478493



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.