What would be the ONE BOOK you would show to a religious person

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Too easy

>>7629491

are you trying to lie

>>7629491
the bible. with apocrypha included, but not revealed that it's apocrypha.

Who fucking cares what other people believe

>>7629491
Fuckin atheist always trying to tell people what to believe

>>7629491
Small Gods by Terry Pratchett.

>>7629505
lol it's not like religious people make their children read the bible/quran/torah whatever the fuck. It's not like the admittedly nice christian guy who hands out the Watchtower every week is trying to convert me.

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>>7629541
Let's take a moment, in fact, to appreciate the fact that this is a silly fantasy book that has an idiot savant become a better moral teacher than Jesus was.

Why would I want to do that?

>>7629555
Not OP but I assume it's like a game.

superior to former self not fellow man

>>7629554
>better morals

>>7629561
Notice how I didn't say that.

>>7629555
Truth trips. I wonder this myself.

I can totally respect and admire people believing in a god on a philosophical level but religiously, it always shakes my image of them even though that's totally not fair

>>7629491
Myth of Sisyphus

>>7629650
I can respect them until they start praying near me. Literally mental illness.

>>7629676
No because it's cultural.

>>7629676
Yeah, this

The amount of mental gymnastics and confirmation bias required to believe prayers work, regardless of if there is a god, is just stunning

>>7629621

"But not every shared trait of the High Church atheist is quite as superlatively wonderful as atheists might have one believe. For example, fresh from a visit to England for an inspiring sermon from the High Church’s own Archbishop of Oxford, Wired magazine writer Gary Wolf found himself noting that atheists are almost always enthusiastic, defiant men who “enjoy pissing people off.”20 Another Dawkins interviewer, Simon Hattenstone, reached a similar conclusion: “I agree with virtually everything he says, but find myself wanting to smack him for his intolerance.” This is not unusual, as the High Church atheist’s undeveloped social skills are often so dramatic as to be reasonably described as a form of social autism. The atheist tends to regard every statement with which he disagrees in much the same manner that a bull views a matador’s red flag, viewing even the most cherished myths held by his friends and family as little more than imperative targets of opportunity. It is no wonder that the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey reported that atheists are one-third as likely to be married as the average American; these are the sort of men who believe that boring a woman with lengthy explanations of why her opinions are incorrect is the best way to her heart."

Vox Day. Irrational Atheist.

>>7629688
Prayer is the elevation of the mind and the heart to God in praise, in thanksgiving, and in petition for the spiritual and material goods we need.
A petition in prayer is asking for gods will to coincide with your own will. Often times it doesn't, and you move on and make due with what god has given you.

So I don't think prayer requires the mental gymnastics and confirmation bias you think it does. If you think of prayers as simply asking for what you want then of course prayers are no good.

>>7629688
Prayer isn't always a practical demand though - for most people it's a bit of reassurance, a kind of emotional crutch. It doesn't work in the sense that you can invoke divine intervention on your part, but that's usually also not the point.

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this thread

>>7629849
I don't get it.

>>7629688
Prayer done right is opening your heart up to God and listening to him. Only atheists and protestants, which are basically the same thing (and rightfully so: if my parents were baptist I would probably be an atheist too) think that prayer is this thing where you beg God for more money so you can buy a private jet.

>>7629851
he has legitimately accepted that religion is nothing more than a coping mechanism that has no evidence or physical merit, and has receded from the pride of true belief into the insecurity of utility based faith.

>>7629873

Or he has taken a leap to faith.

>implying the pride of true belief is as fulfilling as having a belief system that centres around something other than yourself

>>7629894
>completely misinterprets utility based faith vs true belief

a true believer does not have doubt, they simply know. faith based in utility is arguing from the ground up. "my god exists because he's useful"
instead of simply "my god exists"

>>7629701
>>7629701
I'm split on this, because it discredits legitimately good points that some atheists make, because of their 'social retardation'. Just because people like Dawkins are smug assholes doesn't make them any less right.

>>7629898
But he knows that his god exists too.

>>7629903
no, he doesnt, utilitarian faith is an incredibly weak argument, and does not act as evidence.

the presup has the upper hand, considering that there is absolute knowledge of god's existence without evidence, they do not trouble themselves with proofs, they simply speak from divine authority, instead of trying to reason with a doubter. utilitarian faith is an act of pleading with a doubter.

>>7629900
some people don't realize that outspoken and famous atheists do not represent absolute authority when it comes to atheistic concepts, not like, for example, a pope, who must be correct on all counts, otherwise his religion is undermined. one can disagree with many of the arguments that dawkins presents, and still be an atheist.

>>7629491
Augustine or Aquinas, probably. Or any book trying to define God. Confessions would do quite nicely. My though process being that everything that tries to prove or make a case for God does so for the primal ''essence'' or phenomenon that permeates through everything in the universe, and takes a primal father role, deserving of reciprocation, it never actually proves about why one specific branch of religion is true. So, to make someone non religious is to try and show them what God is truly meant to be, in purity, without filthy human doctrines attached to it.

Sorry for the typos and stray words, just woke up.

>>7629898

>implying religious people have no doubt, or that their faith can't waver.

>implying the leap to faith doesn't bridge this gap.

>>7629914
i guess you don't understand what i'm talking about here. of course people doubt their belief in religion. that's because it lacks evidence. the ones who convince themselves beyond doubt are the truly devout. "leap to faith" is a meaningless phrase. if you mean the leap from subjective reality into objective reality as being the leap of faith, then all positions are equally faulty and can be dismissed with a wave of relativism. it is the presuppositionalist who takes to the establishment of pure knowledge from a divine source so as to avoid this relativism problem. they are of the understanding that absolute true knowledge is revealed by god.

>>7629904
Utilitarian faith is just as good an argument as any other sort of faith.

>>7629933
i can agree to that statement, specifically because faith itself is belief without evidence based justification.

>>7629935
Then it doesn't matter.

>>7629937
bingo

>>7629927
>if you mean the leap from subjective reality into objective reality as being the leap of faith

no i mean kierkegaard's leap to faith.

>>7629937
exactly. If it doesn't matter and it helps people, why do atheists care so much?

oh yeah because their primary function is feeling superior to other people

>>7629943
Atheists are more interested in evidence than anything else. Don't forget that there are people who will literally kill you if you don't believe. you have it pretty damn wrong.

>>7629873
>he has legitimately accepted that religion is nothing more than a coping mechanism

but that's not genuine religion

>>7629898
>a true believer does not have doubt, they simply know.
this is so untrue

>>7629906
>not like, for example, a pope, who must be correct on all counts, otherwise his religion is undermined.
the catholic church has had any number of scoundrels for popes, but that does not undermine the necessity of papal infallibility.

>>7629552
Because Jesus loves you. So they care.

probably their book where they profess all their dogmas from.

or a biography of those who authored said book.

Why would I do that in the first place? If people want to believe in something, why not let them? I believe in God, or at least a creator, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

>>7629906
Do some research; infallibility does not mean impeccability. Only when the Pope makes official doctrinal decisions along with the church officials as a whole is it considered infallible. It is also supported in scripture.

>>7630007
then i posit to you that you are no true believer.

>>7630011
>>7630058
okay then, a better example would be Jesus.

>>7629491
is that video real?

>>7629494

Pathetic attempt. I read it just to throw counterargument back at atheists. It's one of those books, written by atheist for atheists so they feel entitled and proud of their religion.

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>>7631198
>thinks atheism is a religion

The God Delusion. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, had communion, was confirmed, believed in God, prayed every night, and was thinking about joining the priesthood, until one day when I was 17 I saw Dawkins debate a theist on one of the news channels and I instantly saw how foolish I'd been to believe a collection of ancient myths was the word of the universe's creator. I've never gotten around to reading Dawkins's book, but I didn't need to. That news segment was enough. I'm now a proud atheist and a tireless promoter of atheists' rights in my largely religious community.

>>7631384
As an atheist, I can't think of a time when I've been oppressed for it or whatever

There's no such thing, atheism is objectively wrong.
>>7629554
But that's wrong
>if i like it then it's moral!

>>7631220
>unprovable beliefs about a mythological matter, not a religion.

Agnostic Theist Master Race.

>>7629552
Children are indoctrinated by design. They'll inevitably form beliefs based on their exposure, culture is no different. Parents may as well instill their beliefs in those they have worked to beget, it's not inherently a sinister thing.

>>7631220
atheism might not be a religion, but it requires as much/more faith to believe god does not exist as religious people believe god does exist.

>>7630058

>supported in scripture.

:^)

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>>7631412
>thinks that there is no evidence that conflicts specific religious claims and can be used to discredit the belief in various religions

>lacking belief requires faith
no.

>>7631475
>no.

yes

>>7631475
It's not about specific religious claims, it's about the question, "is there a higher power."

It cannot be answered empirically. Thus, saying no is no better than saying yes.

>it's a religious shitposting thread

it sure was nice of that mod to drop by and make that sticky for us wasn't it?

eat trash fucking shitposting retard fuckwits every fucking day with this same fucking christian shitposting jesus christ just kill yourself you world-hating nihilist eschatological fuck-grenades

>>7629849
this is bait kids

>>7629491

>What would be the ONE BOOK you would show to a religious person to make them not religious

Probably the gospel of Matthew, chapter 23 in particular. Any of the words of Jesus in general though.

>>7629491

Cannibals and Kings by Marvin Harris. It's what made me an atheist. Understanding the mechanisms that drive the evolution of regional religious practices, it kind of shatters the illusion. Like how I can't really enjoy video games anymore after learning programming. I know that all the interactions are scripted, regardless of what the player says or does. No more magic, no more mystery. I'd actually prefer things the way they were before, but one can never return to ignorance after seeing the light.

>>7631546
You say that like it isn't massively obvious that everything is scripted, and when and how, anyway.

>>7631412
Agnostics are fucking stupid.
>I understand religion is stupid
>I still want to cope with my fear of death
>I still want order in the universe

>>7631198

I've never read and it and i don't know an atheist that has. I've actually never seen anything by Dawkins at all.

Then again, i live in a country with a high level of atheists. So maybe in other countries all the atheists have read it.

> their religion.

The moment basic logic becomes a religion.

>>7631389

Apparently there are big problems with this in parts of the US where being an atheist is basically worse than being black, gay, jewish and a pedophile at once.

Where i live the only people who get looked at weirdly for their religion are the ones who take it too seriously.

>>7631220
Atheism isn't suppose to be a religion, but lots of people like>>7629503 act like it is.
It's like people who are obsessed with anime or star wars. Maybe you do just like it and aren't a stereotype, but you know there are people who embrace the life style and are proud of it.

It's pretty sad really, plus while all the dogmatic atheists go around jerking each other off, everyone else just wants to distance themselves from that as much as possible.

>>7629500
>>7629505
>>7629555
>>7630031
Imagine if everyone thought like this. Really try to imagine what it would be like if everyone let everyone else believe whatever.
I'm not personally religious, but that Jesus guy had the right idea when it came to morals. And a large part of that is preaching. It's almost a moral duty to preach something you really believe.

>>7629908
Aquinas is quite clear that God cannot be defined.
Confessions are also highly existential.
God is in Christianity literally a man so um yeah they can't detach it and also say that man is the image of God.

Lets said:
Atheism are homosexual
Religious are heterosexual
You cant tell heterosexual to go homosexual. its a choice.

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>>7631648
What language do you normally speak?

>>7631607
You like to reach don't you, sonny?

I'm Christian for cultural reasons and because I enjoy it, I fear dying no more than living badly.

>>7631686
>I'm an agnostic theist
>I'm a Christian
Gee whiz old boy you really got me there, I don't know what I was thinking.
You can't be a Christian without believing what Christ said. THAT'S KIND OF THE IDEA.

>>7631700
Belief is conviction without verification. Nothing about agnosticism subverts this.

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>>7631435
>it requires as much faith not to believe there's a rhino in your room as to believe that there isn't

>>7631705
Uh... I think you're using the wrong words here. Do you have an odd definition of "Christian"?

>>7631728
I question that you know what it is at all.

>>7631681
He has a point
I'm sure there's plenty of buttmad faggots who deny god simply because they like it up the ass
>"No magical skyman is gonna tell me what I do with my neighbor's dick!"

>>7631739
I mean, I'm not an expert, but I was raised Catholic and did quite a lot of research on ways to stay Christian without really believing in God (because I really, really wanted to).
Honestly dude, you don't know how much I wanted (and still want) to be a Christian. It's just a good feeling, but I couldn't justify it.

>>7631759
Not the anon you're talking to, but now I'm really curious what the hell exactly you mean by "being Christian".

>>7631759
Then be one. There's really no more to it then that.

Doubt is not the enemy of faith, but the very reason it exists. You can very well understand something is unknowable with certainty by current means, and still believe.

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>>7631765
Well it's not, like, a list of thing to check off. "Go to church, follow Jesus' example, read scripture; well, that's it, now I'm a christian!"
Not like that. Christians believe, by definition of the word, that Jesus of Nazareth was the literal, full blown son of God, the omnipotent and omnipresent and omnibenevolent. Calling yourself a Christian isn't enough to BE Christian.
And the problem is, I don't believe Jesus was the divine, nor do I believe in God, biblical or otherwise.
>>7631767
There IS more to it. I don't just think God is unknowable, I know that god is a construct of human imagination and pattern recognition. There's nothing I "don't understand" about that, but that doesn't make it less hard to swallow.
I will not lie to myself to make myself feel better.

>>7631795
But man oh man, I really wish I still believed, and didn't have to lie to myself to believe.
Hence the picture.

>>7631795

> Christians believe, by definition of the word, that Jesus of Nazareth was the literal, full blown son of God, the omnipotent and omnipresent and omnibenevolent. Calling yourself a Christian isn't enough to BE Christian.

That should be true, but it isn't. Ask an Episcopalian.

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>>7629552
Forcing children with their parents' beliefs is far from a new thing.

>>7631700
Agnostic theism is following/believing a certain religion, but still open to/questioning the idea that (a) God exists.You can believe but still question the authenticity.

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>>7631807
Am I missing something here?
I mean this isn't the ultimate authority, but that seems to be incorrect.

>>7631820

No, that's what they say they believe. In practice, many of them umm and ahh and ask what truth is.

>>7631820
What's there problem, not treating the trinity as one entity?

>>7631595

When I was younger I had no idea what AI was. In the literature and media it's always portrayed with a romantic bent. I shared my ignorance with the rest of the 20th century.

>>7631384

said no-one ever

>>7631832
People of all religions do that.
I mean I could call myself Christian and reject Christ, but that wouldn't mean Christians can reject Christ. It just means I'm stupid.
Sorry Episcopalians.

>>7631856

Definitionally, these are Christians who haggle with the definition, and you've just noted that people in every religion do that, so in practice, it would be perfectly possible for you to call yourself a Christian and just think Christ was a cool guy.

>>7631832

Why didn't Jesus answer the question?

>>7631867
Eh... I guess that's technically true, but I don't feel right about it, you know? I feel like I'm disrespecting actual Christians by calling myself Christian when I'm also an atheist.

>>7631886

Well it does you credit that you care that much.

>>7631875

Because someone who asks that has already admitted their unwillingness or inability to do anything with or about the truth.

>>7631970
>almost everyone assumes I hate christians and christianity b/c I'm an atheist
>someone on the internet can tell I care
>actual feels
W-whatever faggot, I don't give a f-fuck.

>>7631745
It's a fine point to make. When you say it like that I get it, my issue was with the wording.
I was having trouble figuring out what point he was trying to make.

>>7631546
>evolution
When will this meme die?

>>7631480 >>7631487
That's just non-productive semantics. The fact that a concept cannot be addressed empirically is no reason to give that concept any special credence. There are infinite hypothetical unfalsifiable nonsenses, but hardly anyone bothers to say they are 'agnostic' toward Scientology's alien invisible souls, much less the Greek Gods, much less Russell's teapot, etc.

>>7632090
Again, it's the question of the potential existence of a higher power itself, not a specific religion.

>>7631977

It's possible to construe it that way, but is it not also possible that Pilate was an educated elite asking an honest question? Here is a man who has spent his career in service to his state, and who has attempted to bring order and justice to a restive and fundamentalist region. He is accused of offending religious sensibilities. Pontius knows he is treading on thin ice. He can't afford to anger the local religious authorities, while at the same time is grasping at straws to exonerate an obviously innocent man. Is it far fetched for such a person to want to ask what truth is?

>>7632103
Again, you're too narrowly focused on religion - I am talking about the very idea of 'potential existence'. 'Higher power' is an umbrella term, yes, but it does not cover all of the non-empirical concepts, which I stressed are infinite.

>>7632146
The existence of a higher power has been a significant philosophical and cultural concept forever, that's the very reason their is specific terminology for the stances one may take.

Stop sperging over it.

>>7631412
Whether God is real or isn't, you are wrong either way.

>>7632484
>not knowing what agnosticism means
>CURRENT YEAR

>>7631536
why do you say this?

>>7629494
I read it as an atheist and it almost made me religious. The superficial treatment of both philosophical and theological thought ripped off of its historical context makes most of Dawkins' attacks to those who crafted theological arguments laughable.

>>7629491
The Bible.
The fall of a system of thought rarely comes from outside, but from the subject itself realizing the inefficiencies of his own thought. Reading an atheist book like Dawkins' will only enrage these people and convince them more of their beliefs, however absurd they are.

>>7632598
/thread

>>7629491
Age of Reason by Thomas Paine.

Probably wouldn't make them non-religious, but it would get them thinking.

Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding.

Specifically the later chapters, including "of miracles".

but really, if someone is quite literally seriously religious, there's not a great deal of hope.

>>7632629
>>7632598

>religion
>absurd

Well, considering your existence is completely meaningless in accordance with your own beliefs, no one should ever take anything you say seriously. In fact, they'd be idiots to do so.

>>7629491
the bible.

>>7632722
meaning is given by man, not given to man.

>>7632664
>reason
m'lady

The biggest lie in history.
>>7632753
Wrong.

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>>7632786

in the same breath you deny reason, then attempt to use it.

>>7632804
I don't think you know what reason is.

>>7632813
judging by the many indications of your limited mind, your thoughts are easily dismissed.

>>7632816
>OMG UR STUPID BECUZ U DISAGREE WITH MY IDEOLOGY

>>7632832
no, you're just stupid.

>>7632848
>OMG HOW DARE YOU CRITIQUE MY BELIEFS ;*((((((( < you because you're a fucking clown

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>>7632855
you really should consider calming down.
just a suggestion.

>>7629491
i'm happy shitposters have such threads to leave the rest of us be
thanks OP

>>7632859

MY COCK IN YOUR THROAT WOUND

>>7631412
>implying Apatheism isn't the true master race

>>7631635
>imagine a union of egoists
yeah sounds pretty good actually you dunce

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>>7629491

>>7629870
How do you listen to him if he doesn't say anything

>>7631389
Really? It almost makes me think you live in a developed secular country. Spooky right?

>>7631686
>I'm Christian for cultural reasons
You're not a Christian.

>>7633345
This
People will always be resistant if they are having a point of view shoved down their throat by a book like The God Delusion.
It is best to let them find the flaws themselves. From there they can decide how they want to interpret them.

At what point did we get taken over by these atheist plebs?

>>7631635
>It's almost a moral duty to preach something you really believe.
Good thing I'm a nihilist.

>>7635628
tumblr, reddit etc.

Hegel, Phenomonomon in the Mind

They won't be religious because they will be god manifested in consciousness/reality itself

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>>7631648

>>7629491
Religious people don't read.

>>7633369
Next you'll say your mother isn't honking on my bobo?

>>7636136
>honking on my bobo
still laughing
thanks
top banter

>>7633345

>King James Version

this is why Atheists are stupid

>>7631634
what most Christians and New Atheists call "atheism" is just anti-theism

>>7632722
>religion
>absurd
If that's what you got from the post, read it again, because you didn't understand a thing.

>>7629494
I liked the Selfish Gene. Not much else.

>>7629491
The Bible, mostly because 99% of "religious" people probably haven't even read it.

>>7631635
>Really try to imagine what it would be like if everyone let everyone else believe whatever.
It would be nice? I don't follow you.

You know there are actually academic and intelectual books about religion?

Check out Trotta, Akal, Paidos, Crítica, Cátedra, Ciruela, El Hilo de Arianda, among other editors

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>>7629849
Yes it's true, it really is just a concept we use as a tool.

What is the thought process we have before doing something really weird or disgusting (I have personal experience in this), or otherwise something non-virtuous. I thought on this a while ago and I think it is that of cynicism. And the opposite of someone who is cynical would be a zealous person. If you look at Christianity we have the seven deadly sins and their opposites which are the seven virtues. Basically what seems to be a function of Christianity is to influence people to be more virtuous. When you are zealous you follow the teachings of Christianity and learn to act more virtuous. When you are cynical you reject such teachings, and then there is nothing stopping you from having sin, in other words, having non-virtuous traits, such as gluttony, wrath, sloth, greed, lust, pride, and envy. A person who embodies such negative traits is viewed as a bad person. I really do think that cynicism is the thought process that you have to be in in order to to really pick up some of these negative character traits. So the church seems to have a function of trying to coerce people into being more virtuous.

Pic related, I'm supporting Christianity but I'm sure only a few hundreds of years ago they would have branded this heresy.