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Murakami?
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature

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So I've been hearing all kinds of shit about Huraki Murakami and I've been bored of western writers lately. Is he worth reading?
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>>7628014
no, at least if you start with norwegian wood. that book is terrible
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>>7628016
hey i'm half way through that now. it is mildly enjoyable. but it's not very good.
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Fuck

That's the one I picked up
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he's shit. championed by pseuds and dilettantes and middlebrow non-readers
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>>7628034
Why is he shit?
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If you're "bored" of western lit skipping over to murakami isn't going to do much for you
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>>7628014
nvm this guys OP.

Murakami isn't gold but he isn't that bad at all. We can't judge his style because of translations. That being said, his themes are quite repetitive. You may have one or two novels by him and that should be enough for you to get what he is into.

Also, if you are tired of western authors go read some Mishima, Kawabata or Soseki (I don't like Soseki, but many people do), I am sure they are more interesting than Murakami.
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>>7628038
he lacks substance and depth of insight, preferring instead to mix and match the same set of ideas, themes, characters, settings, and plot devices (google murakami bingo) to create a vague sense of strangeness/alienation that is nevertheless familiar/relatable enough to his readership. the result is a neverending stream of the same book that gets propped up by middlebrow pseuds who see something that seems strange and "literary" and "foreign" and "sophisticated" (helped by his japanese name) that they can nevertheless understand, and feel good about appreciating a "difficult" and "obscure" author.

his prose is deficient and he himself admits his books read better in english than in japanese, and he panders to the western idea of what asian literature entails without saying anything insightful or genuine about anything.
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>>7628043
2nding this.
He is pretty much western literature.
So whether or not he's a good writer you should find someone else.
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Read him and enjoy him for two or three books. Experience an identity crisis of sorts, brought on by the thought of all the non-reading dilettantes enjoying the same books as you. Latch on to the waning enthusiasm you feel due to repetitive themes, characters etc. and adopt a thoroughly negative opinion of the books. Disregard Murakami as a serious author. Congratulations, you made it. Now feel free to babble about middlebrows and pseuds and lack of insight. Continue to read him occasionally, though in a detached manner.
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I have never ready Crookerhair, and seeing the types of people who read him certainly doesnt prompt me in that direction.

Suit yourself.
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>>7628014
Underground and after the quake are both worth reading. The End of the World is also quite good.
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I think his surreal shit is his best work.
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>>7628049
>he himself admits his books read better in english than in japanese
You are so full of shit
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Start with a wild sheep chase. Then if you are itneresed in the story of the sheepman, read dance dance dance and then you can read anything by him from here

His best work are between The end of the world and wind up bird
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>>7628014
japanese john green
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The thing about Murakami in english, is that his books often don't have whole chapters and they change needlessly the way characters talk.

I don't know how many people here read him in spanish but I d because it translates so well.
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>>7628014
He is a "western writer". If you want a non-western writer, go back to the pre-globalization age.
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>>7628777
google it retard
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>>7628901
Better give me source where he says that, asshole.

That's it, you don't have source, so you're full of shit.
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>>7628014

If you are going to waste time reading him, at least pick his better books.

Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World

A Wild Sheep Chase

Kafka on the shore
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>>7629056
I don't know where that guy read it, but Murakami even writes it in his preface of the english translation of Hear the Wind Sing/Pinball.

Anyway, I agree that Murakami is low tier, I like him, but he's not sophisticated by any means. He relentlessly fails to develop his themes and whatever fantastic elements he does incorporate (ones he keeps on regurgitating in his novels) never represent anything besides the most obvious expectations, or are intentionally ambiguous and never clarified, making the introduction of unusual/fantasy occurrences a cheap effect.


>>7628578
Thanks
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Read Mishima instead
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his best work is Norwegian Wood. It's a difficult read though. Definitely takes a few re-reads to fully understand.
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>>7630630
low tier b8
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Murakami is fantastic, don't listen to the pseudo snobs.
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>>7630781
redditor detected
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>>7628014

he is prescribed for my college course. his writing is so dry.
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>>7628014
it's really , really , realllly boring to be honest
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>>7630804
Far from it, he's fun,
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>>7630808
using "fun" as a merit, along with using "pretentious" as a criticism, are the unmistakable indicators of a pleb
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>>7630814
>said the guy using "boring"
Here's your reply.
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>>7630818
that wasn't me you autist
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>>7630820
Sorry I can't distinguish the two Redditors that write in lower capital letters back to back.
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reading norwegian wood now, and its so fucking tiresome. he literally describes everything he sees (in the exactly same way, mind you) in an effort to find meaning in something, because you can tell murakami hasn't a clue of what he's actually trying to say, he's just shooting in every direction in the hopes of getting lucky and saying something vaguely meaningful
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>>7630827
>he defends murakami
>he says it's "fun"
>calls other people redditors
>desperately pretending he's not a redditor
>is obviously a redditor

wew lad

>>7630831
bingo. it's coelho-tier vagueness that lets every middle aged housewife/illiterate college hipster project whatever interpretation and meaning he/she/it wants to into the text, thus achieving the illusion of "deepness" and insight to the pleb masses
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>>7630842
You get a 3/10 for trying to fit in.
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>>7630847
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vBpcSEdcRc
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I'm reading Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki right now and I think it's very insightful and relatable. My first experience with his writing was a short story called "The Ice Man" supposedly based off a dream his wife had. As for the criticism of repetition in his books, I can't really say how I feel about that until I've read another novel of his.
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>>7630842

he is prescribed for my college course. the professor wants us to write in his style. what the fuck
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>>7630889
>the professor wants us to write in his style
What, in Japanese?
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>>7630927

no he tells us to follow his story structure.
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Kafka on the Shore might as well have been Twin Peaks fanfiction
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>>7628016

Thats the only Murakami novel I've read so far. Apparently its nothing like his other books. I thought it was ok but nothing special.

I got about a third of the way through Dance Dance Dance but never finished it.
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Yukio Mishima, Kobo Abe, Natsume Soseki, Yasunari Kawabata, Kenzoburo Oe, Banana Yoshimoto, Ryu Murakami. Any other major modern Japanese authors?
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>>7628014
His "paranatural" books are more entretaining than his "romance" ones, that's for sure.
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>>7629130
I'd add The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle to that list.
I think Norwegian wood as bad as it may be pretty much resumes the themes of like half of his other books, so if your'e interested on having a taste of what they are like it's a good choice to start.
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>>7628014

murakami? stupidkami if you ask japan

he is a great shame of my country
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>>7632352
Add Akutagawa to that and you have a solid best of of modern Japanese /lit/. Well you would except for Murakami.
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>>7629130
I liked the anime adaptation of End of the World better actually
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>>7632452
Yoshimoto is garbage.
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>>7632423
This man, he is nothing in your country?
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>>7632703
Thanks for the heads up. Was interested in getting one of her books out from the library.
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>>7632703
seconded
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>>7632706

he is the laugh of japan

no family wants murakami's sons for daughter

great shame!
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tfw you like south of the border west of the sun more than anything else he's written
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Read his biography on his marathon running career before judging.
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>>7628014
no.
sage.
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>>7632767
She writes like a college freshman, heavy with pointless dialog and meaningless scenes that show off how bored or disaffected the (usually female) protagonist is. Her stuff would probably work better as manga, to be honest. There's just way too much dialog and rumination for it to read well.

I was sorely disappointed after reading The Lake, since I heard it had elements of things I like (disaffected female protagonist, art versus consumerism, Aum Shinrikyo analogs), but I got some stupid college girl wanting to fuck the least attractive beta male in the world and ruminating on her dead mother for 350 pages before an infodump about 20 pages long explained hastily the guy's issues and ended abruptly.
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This_man_is_nothing.jpg
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>>7633002
Same here.
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>>7628014
Murakami makes boredom a total new gendre of novel. Not in the bad way.

If you are a person that doesen't care if he gets bored (has things to do while waiting to do your next thing) Murakami is a great writter.

I personally recomend starting with colorless tsukuru tazaki and his years of pilgrimage.
That book is awesome and always gets me when I finish reading it
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>>7628609
this
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>>7630786
This is what a snob looks like... what an argument
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>>7633788
That seems interesting. I'll try it, thanks anon
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>>7635146
hello mr. redditor :) please go back there.
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>>7630814
Also, using "pseudo" and "middlebrow"
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Thoughts on After Dark?
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>>7632933
Kekked hearthly
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>>7635158
you sound like a middlebrow pseud. please direct yourself back to r/books. ty.
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Better than DFW.
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>>7635184
i don't disagree, but that's a low bar.
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OP here.
So I bought Norwegian Wood and it seemed like something I didn't want to invest myself in so I'm back on my Joyce kick thx m8s
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>>7635184
why isn't murakami a meme?
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>>7635184
Strooongly disagree
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Girl Im fucking just gave me the one about the bird.

What can I say to pretend I read a few pages of it for when she comes over tonight?
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>>7632703
Agreed. I tried reading Amrita and all I got was "Isn't this like something from a book? How wacky!"
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>>7635258
Why not just read a few pages? That's like a ten minute investment on your part. Do you want to get your end in or not?
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>>7635294

I'm too busy shitposting and it's like 500 pages long
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I read Wind Up Bird and it just seemed like a cheap Bakemonogatari
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he's not even the best murakami
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>>7629130
>waste time reading him

This board is honestly painful to be on sometimes
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>>7635258
Mention wells and a mark on the face.
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I very much enjoyed Kafka on the Shore though it was a bit weird at times
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We wrote one and only one good book.
Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World

Don't bother with anything else.
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>>7635828
Underground is great, fuck you.
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>>7635828
>his worst book
>says it's his best book
wew lad
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>>7635632

Is Popular Hits of the Showa Era good start with R. Murakami?
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>>7636283
His worst book is 1Q84, you mongoloid.
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>>7632352
hiromi kawakami
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I've only read pic related and honestly i loved it. are his other books not like it
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I know that all of /lit/ isn't one person, but this is the very board that overwhelmingly praised Murakami and got me interested in reading his novels. Now all of a sudden everybody hates him?

Be honest, /lit/. It's because he's getting more popular, right?
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>>7637369
idk but i've been bashing murakami on /lit/ since the board was launched

it's mostly because when this board launched it was the same as r/books, where people jerk it over game of thrones and kingkiller and 1984, and from the perspective of someone reading those books, murakami probably seemed very literary. now that people here read (or at least meme about reading) "real" literature murakami is pretty shitty in comparison.
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>>7635167

yes you laugh with murakami in japan

no tradition of laugh here, murakami best joke in japan, we laugh, we laugh lots of laugh
>>
Япoнcкий oвцeвoд Hapyки Heнoгaми

Bce вы, питepcкиe, идиoты кaкиe-тo

(that is, do not read)
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>>7637352

i thought this was by far the worst of his books, i could hardly finish it it was so boring.
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>>7628046
This is the correct answer

Mishimi and soseki are a great introduction to modern japanese lit
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>>7637369
I've been on /lit/ for 2ish years and it's only been in a last month or so that I have seen threads about him where there are any positive things to be said.
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>>7637475
soseki yes, murakami no

murakami is not a japanese writer. he is, mostly deliberately, working outside of the japanese literary tradition. there is no reason to enter the japanese canon through murakami.
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>>7637609
Uhhh he said Mishima.
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>>7637630
i can't read :)

in any case i don't recommend mishima as a starting point either because his importance in japanese literature is overstated by /lit/, partly due to his hilarious life story/beliefs.

mishima is very much a "fringe" author, in the sense that he went in a horizontal direction from the relatively linear tradition that encompasses soseki, tanizaki, and kawabata, and to a lesser extent akutagawa. mishima reacted to western influence/WWII/american occupation in a way that's starkly different from most of his predecessors and peers (like kawabata). I think it's more helpful to be somewhat familiar with other Japanese authors before going into Mishima to see how he differs and contrasts.
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>>7637471
its sound very tumblr, but it resonated with me kinda well. i get that many could find it boring but idk i could never get into his surreal stuff but the characters in this felt very real
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>>7637447

>no tradition of laugh here, murakami best joke in japan, we laugh, we laugh lots of laugh
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lol this thread
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>>7638706

japanese too, murakami is much hated in my country

schools ban his books because he is child penis perversor

japanese are very ok people, no perverse demons
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>>7638840
Murakami-san, please
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>>7628049
>mix and match the same set of ideas, themes, characters, settings, and plot devices

Pynchon literally does this same exact thing.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, either.
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>>7639050
it is a bad thing

and i don't like pynchon either
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>>7628014
he's a good writer, but I did not care for him, personally.
>>
I just finished Wind-up Bird and would probably rank it among my all time favorite novels.
I understand why some wouldn't like it, but I loved it.

not sure what to read next. Kafka on the Shore seems like it's going to be next on my list just for how much praise it receives. I'm really interested in Hard-Boiled Wonderland just because the title sounds cool as hell and the premise is neat but I've heard it's it's pretty basic?

and for anyone else who's read Wind-up, what exactly was Okada doing in the hanging house with Nutmeg and Cinnamon? that whole section of the book threw me off to the point of re-reading sections in fear that I skipped something.
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>>7628049
He is very repetitive, and I do get annoyed that he seems to milk the same cow over and over now, but look at it this way: if he had written Hard-boiled Wonderland and The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and then dropped dead, he would be considered a cult classic, no doubt about it. The latter even won the Yomiuri prize with Kenzaburo Oe as part of the jury.

People only shit on him because he didn't evolve, and they're partially right to do so, but when he dies and time passes and his body of work is condensed to the essentials by the collective unconscious, he'll go down as the author of 3-4 very worthwhile books.

>>7628046
Soseki and Kawabata are indeed a good intro to the japanese modern canon, along with Tanizaki and Oe. After you're done with those, there's you fringe authors —Mishima, Dazai, Abe. They're not worse or anything, but their connections to the "tradition" are conflicting.
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>>7639050
murakami is better than pynchon
>>
Bumping for more Japanese lit suggestions. Maybe get flow charts going for other Japanese authors besides Mishima?
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>>7631115
Dance Dance Dance is fucking fantastic, I recommend you keep going

>>7628016
this is really one of those situations where a writer's worst book is his most famous, I suspect because it's the one thing he did that's not weird/surrealist
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>>7640891
OSAMU DAZAI

Osamu Dazai's a really great writer

he wrote a super depressing book about an alienated, suicidal guy losing it, called No Longer Human

on the other end of things, he wrote a warm/fuzzy book about how everything gets better, called Schoolgirl

he's also rewritten a bunch of ancient Japanese fairy tales for modern audiences

super diverse Japanese writer from a post-WW2 scene that was basically the Japanese equivalent of the American Beat scene - he and his friends were also super controversial because they were outspoken anti-nationalists/fascists

then he killed himself
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>>7640911
I am familiar with all of this that you have sought to capture within your post. I was not familiar with Schoolgirl but other than that I've honestly never heard of Dazai being compared to the Beats.Some more flow charts would be nice to get opinions on a supposed "reading order/pathway" which would be best to develop my understanding of the artist's works.
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>>7628016
It's just a comfy melancholy love story, nothing terrible.
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>>7640946
Will it make me sad when I reflect upon it or make me sentimental and calm about my future prospects?
>>
His booke taste like cheeseburger
>>
will likely make you feel that feel when no gf
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>>7640891
Akutagawa, Oe, Abe, Kawabata (highly recommend), Soseki, Endo. That's a decent list of authors to get through, and all of them are good.
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>>7641305
>>7641109
>>
Considering Murakami is a western writer, I don't understand the point of this thread.
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>>7639704
It was a continuation of the work nutmeg was doing in akasaka. Nutmeg got him to work for her, okada got to use the well in return. I imagine there was a chapter explaining it more in depth that got cut in the adaptation (the biggest issue with the English translations).
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>>7641305
So it isn't actually comfy and I should probably avoid it until I get a gf?
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>>7641306
I've read samples of most of those via my one Volume of the Norton Anthology. As such, any advice on how to best tackle the "Japanese Canon" would be greatly appreciated.
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>>7641586
I think it's pretty good if you still want a gf. I don't think you should read it when you've overcome the gf wanting phase of life.
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>>7641638
>overcome the gf wanting phase of life
Good one. I doubt I'd have stop hoping on the off chance I'm alone for a while longer.
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>>7641729
Once you have pumped and dumped a bunch of pussy you learn that everything you though about having girlfriends as a teenager aren't true. In between relationships I can go for a couple of years of not wanting or looking for one.

Also I've found the best way to get laid or a gf is to be in situations where you get to meet people while not caring about or trying to get laid. Girls love it when you are confident that you don't need pussy.
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>>7641592
Going for writers earlier than Soseki and Akutagawa I can't really help you. I mean there are a couple of giants but it's a whole different world of literature that is just alien to the west. Those authors I mentioned are really the whose who of 20th century fiction. Except for maybe Endo who isn't so big but as a Japanese Catholic, and with all of his novels being about some interplay between Japan and the west I think he is a really good read for a westerner trying to understand Japan.

Oh I also forgot to add Dazai to that list.
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>>7641806
Oh god it's the ever so common fit poster who comes into a thread on the off chance his senpai Mishima might be mentioned!
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>>7641817
Shame. I love trying to connection to a totality of the literature in review across time and era if I am to get a holistic understanding instead of a somewhat situational.
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>>7641817
Not the initial poster, but perhaps you could provide some flowcharts or guidance at least here? Reference materials and books on the topic itself are always greatly appreciated.
>>
>>7641729
I meant actually having relationships and realising their inherent unsatisfactoriness to be honest.
>>
>>7642030
I think you are doing the whole relationship thing wrong then. Or you at least need to try harder in finding fulfilment and actualization with your significant other.
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>>7642044
I think it's the other way around and you and many other people are under the impression that there's magic at the end of the rainbow if you just try hard enough and therefore you get caught up in this 'romantic love is the answer to everything' narrative for no good actual reason beside it being pushed onto you constantly.

It's a fairly recent meme actually.
>>
>>7642073
Or that there is something to be gained by it? I think it is you projecting and being a cynical bastard.
>>
>>7641839
I don't go to fit. I'm just not an autist when it comes to women.
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>>7642213
Or you are static and square in your propositions that one can only pity your sorry self.
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>>7642201
If you think falling in love with a girl will solve your problems you're not cynical enough, my friend.
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>>7642416
It's not a be all end all solution to the sad existence that is life but it would definitely help a lot of us to have a qt to call our own.
>>
Posting in the final thread still up before the sticky was created.
>>
>>7642229
The only thing I pity is your inability to write a coherent sentence.
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>>7642708
Hahah look at this fuck boy. We all think you are sad so just go already.
>>
>>7642484
That's a myth, mate.
>>
>>7642484
Relationships require a hell of a lot of work and you happiness is now contingent on your partners happiness as well. It is far better to be single than be in a bad relationship and a good relationship isn't easy. Also if you aren't happy being in a relationship won't change it or even help.
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>>7628014
I read Sputnik Sweetheart and some other novel I can't recall.

He's alright. Not great, but not really a waste of time as far as reading goes so long as you pick a short one.
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>>7628014
I just adblocked that picture.
Fuck off. he's shit

Shhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttt
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>>7642741

yes, murakami is shit in japan

he is very shit, we call him "shit-kami" and we laugh at his ancestors
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>>7643112
sureeeeeeee
>>
>can read japanese fluently
>japanese piracy community sucks
>cant find murakami books anywhere
>tfw

Guess I'll have to stick with copyright expired shit on aozora bunko.
>>
>>7628804
If only John Green had the balls to inject some weird, dreamlike situations in his novels, though. I will agree that Murakami's prose (at least in translation) feels very YA-like. I read Sputnik Sweetheart a few weeks ago, and was about to drop it after 50 pages because of how immature it made me feel, as though I was reading a book for 12-year-olds, but then the """surreal""" shit started kicking in, and I began to enjoy the ride

OP, the biggest issue of Murakami is that his books pretty much just rely on plotting. All the characters are the same in his books, as are the themes and the tones, so it's really just a matter of what plot you want to follow, picking from cyberpunk/fairytale combo (Hard-Boiled Wonderland), modern Japanese Oedipus with a Colonel Sanders ghost (Kafka on the Shore), lesbians that disappear into mirror universes (Sputnik Sweetheart), some chick's sister falling into a coma while her dreams or something manifest in real life (After Dark), sticking your dick in crazy (Norwegian Wood), or false accusations of rape (Colorless Tsukuru). Haven't read the Sheepman tetralogy or Wind-Up Bird, though I do own the latter and will start it soon
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>>7630935
>ape John Green-tier prose and romantic development for the first half
>throw in dreamlike scenarios separating the lovers in the second half
Bingo bango

>>7631104
You're making the novel sound better than it is. Though I guess having Col. Sanders/ Johnnie Walker as BOB is an interesting touch on Murakami's part
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>>7630887
>I'm reading Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki right now and I think it's very insightful and relatable
Jesus, man, CTT is just shitty simile after shitty simile. All the weak ass comparisons acted as minor speedbumps when I read it, because of how bothersome it was to get through the pockets of exceptionally bad writing. The hardcover looks nice as fuck though, so I'm glad I own it
>>
>>7635360
To be fair, Nisio Isin would be a fantastic writer if he wasn't marketing his shit for Japanese teens. He can be pretty pomo at times, but he ruins it with those generic observations first-person LN narrators always make. I'm basing this more on Zaregoto vol1, which I'm currently reading, than Kizumonogatari which is in the mail
>>
I've only read Kafka on the Shore. I love novels with great imagery so i loved the weird and dreamlike sequences (that book has quite a few). But don't expect anything too profound lol. In fact, the name of the book is rather pretentious.
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