Japanese poetry

farewell poem to the plum blossom ois goat

>>7591982
haiku (adults only):

A weird protrusion,
exaggerated outie.
It's a human dick.

>>7591999
I showed this to my little brother
he then raped me :(

>>7591982
Manyoshu II: 199 blows my asshole out, but it's too long to put here.
By the jeweled cord
Of Unebi mountain,
At Kashiwara
Since the Sage-king's reign
Have been born
A line of gods,
As the hemlock tree
E'er lasting;
The land
They ruled, yet one
Sky-filling
Yamato abandoned and
The blue-black clays
Of Nara mountain passed through
How did you
Feel then, my lord?
Far from heaven
In the country,
Yet in rock-running
Ômi Province,
At Sasanami,
From the palace of Ôtsu
The land
You ruled;
An emperor,
A very god,
Your great palace
Stood here, I heard;
Your great hall
Stood here, they say, but
Spring's grasses
Now grow thickly;
The mist rises,
Hazing spring sunshine:
Your many stoned
Palace's place:
A sad sight, indeed.
MYS I: 29

>>7592084
What came first, this or shelly's?

>>7592096
This is like... a thousand years older... give or take a couple decades?

>>7592100
I figured

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I saw Fuji
I saw Mount Fuji
Since red snow doesn’t fall
Fuji does not deserve be honoured as a fine mountain.

I saw the tapering form
From a train window
And wondered how this formidable mountain
Could be vanquished.
Towering above me
A menacing spirit
Glaring down at me and my wretched life.

I have seen Fuji
I have seen Mount Fuji.
Crow!
Fly over Fuji from the foothills to the peak
Mock with your crimson mouth.

Wind!
Fuji is a sorrowful palace of snow
Rage and bluster
Mount Fuji is the image of Japan
The sphinx
A deep nostalgic dream
A palace of sorrow where demons lie.

Look at Fuji
Look at Mount Fuji
You who the great Hokusai painted
I saw the spark of youth in that image
Now you are an old and withered mud pie
You who stare up at the sky with bulging eyes
Why try and escape in such thick snow.

Crow! Wind!
Strike Mount Fuji on the shoulder
Dazzlingly white as it is
It is not a silver castle
It is a doomed snow palace

Mount Fuji!
I stand before you
A lone woman who will not bow down her head to you
A woman who mocks you.

Mount Fuji, oh Fuji!
I a stubborn woman
Stand here whistling
Defiantly waiting for you
With your raging passion which roars like fire
To seek your vengeance.

The capital at Shiga
Shiga of the rolling waves
Lies now in ruins,
The mountain cherries
Lie as before
-Taira Tadanori

Autumn ends:
frogs settle down
into the earth

>>7592096
I made the same comparison immediately, that's so cool.

>>7591982
I know nothing about japanese poetry, but I love Bashō's last poem:

Fallen ill mid-journey ....
About the burned fields
fly my broken dreams.

>>7591987
Link or post?

>>7592242
kochi fukaba
nioi okoseyo
ume no hana
aruji nashi tote
haru o wasuruna


When the east wind blows
let it send your fragrance,
oh plum blossoms.
Although your master is gone,
do not forget the spring.

>>7592084
Definitely buying this collection

>>7592257
I really like this.

Anyone have experience with japanese translations?
What version of Manyoshu is recommended?

>>7592524
It's one of my favourites

>>7591982
These are more like books... but I'm going to name them anyway.

>Sound of waves
>Thirst for love
>house of the sleeping beauties

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Can we briefly make this a Japanese literature thread in general?
I'm just trying to identify the author and title of this story; here's the first page or so pictured. It's credited to Yasushi Inoue and titled as "The Star Festival Town", but I can't seem to find any definite proof of that being the case. The only other candidate for authorship I have is Tsumura Setsuko, since it would appear that she wrote a story of the same name, but the description I found of her story does not appear to match up with the story as written.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Does anyone here read modernist Japanese poetry?

>>7593831
Not yet, but i really want to get into it

Issa is very good

>>7591982
i'm not really into the ">reading the translations" meme but honestly reading translations of poetry seems quite odd.

something that heavily relies on wordplay, flow etc. may not translate to another language

>>7595289
I mean it's true, but what are you going to do, just drop it all together?

>>7592084
>manyoshu II
You mean the second volume of it?

>>7592096
Shelley's what? I'm retarded, spoonfeed me.

>>7595311
Ozymandias

>>7595289
Reading poets who have interesting content in translation can be worthwhile. True, there's not much point in reading certain Russian Symbolists or the like in translation, but those like Dante, Goethe, Rilke, et al. who seek to express allegories and Truth are beautiful and inspiring in any language, despite the fact you'll be missing out on a lot of their formal qualities.

How strictly should the 5-7-5 rule be followed when it comes to haiku?

I want to try starting every diary entry with one.

>>7595363
As strictly as you want it to be

>>7595289
The problem with reading Japanese poetry is that the way that it is constructed was fundamentally different.
Because of the sound system alliteration and rhythmic use of c-v-c-v patterns are more prized than rhyming, which is not really a feature of older Japanese poetry.

When reading Japanese poetry it is even more important to remember that the poem is as much, almost more, a product of the translator, as it is of the original author.

>>7595438
>When reading Japanese poetry it is even more important to remember that the poem is as much, almost more, a product of the translator, as it is of the original author.

Truly. As part of my Classical Japanese class, we had to translate some poems by Bashou, Buson and Issa (and also lot of prose, but that's beside the point now). The end products varied a lot between students.

>>7595363

Slavishly following the 5-7-5 in non-Japanese rule is a dumb meme. The count syllables slightly differently than us and can pack more meaning into a single syllable due to their pictographic language. Translators in particular who attempt to translate the original 5-7-7 into something too close to that in English are just trying to bullshit you.

Plus, haiku derives from a cooperative poetry GAME were one person provides the first stanza (what we now recognize as a haiku), then people take turns adding their own stanzas.

Over time, the most celebrated poets would get invited to the parties and get the honor of starting the round more often, and those best able to get everyone else started off became honored in their own right for just their opening verses: the haiku.

Often, the longer poems became bawdy, comedic pieces that shat all over convention, cliche, class, and even those present, so the picturesque first verses we know and love are a little misleading. Those first verses often got trolled, and were set up precisely to be trolled.

Not unlike some first posts on a certain chinese comix board I could think off.

>yfw OP has slyly started a round of comic, poetic shitposting.

>>7595460
I like to think that translating Japanese is like cutting a corpse into inch long pieces and trying to sew the body back together.

>>7592131

I really like this. Thanks anon.

>>7595489
Holy shit anon, you opened my eyes.

>>7591982

The world of dew
Is a world of dew
and yet...
and yet...

-Issa

Eight inches strong, it is my favourite thing;
If I'm alone at night, I embrace it fully -
A beautiful woman hasn't touched it for ages. Within my fundoshi there is an entire universe!

--Ikkyu

>>7596979
these are good

haiku isn't really that old, just so you know

there are three main collections of old poetry that were published by imperial order. the man'yoshuu is the longest because it contains poetry from a period of about 300 years. this has a bunch of different styles in it like long- and short-form tanka

the second is the kokin wakashuu, compiled after tanka became the main form of poetry (called waka -- or 'japanese poetry' to distinguish it from the chinese kanshi). this became the text to quote from according to the many strict rules of poetry composition that developed in the court

the third is the shin kokin wakashuu, which was compiled after 'renga' became it's own style. renga is a collaborative 'linked verse' style of poetry that developed from 'uta-awase' -- a kind of poetry competition that were held in the heian courts. the opening 5-7-5 verse of this would eventually become haiku at the end of the 19th century as an adaptation of japanese-style poetry to poetic ideas of the west, i.e. composed by a single poet, rather than a collaborative effort

you'll be able to find translations of these three texts. it really helps knowing a little japanese though since the poetry relies on so many linguistic tricks that are actually untranslatable. standard translations are still beautiful though

i recommend the book 'japanese court poetry' by earl miner and robert h bower since it seems to be the standard entry-point into understanding the poetry of japan. it is very dry.

>>7595438
>Because of the sound system alliteration and rhythmic use of c-v-c-v patterns are more prized than rhyming, which is not really a feature of older Japanese poetry.
What's a c-v-c-v pattern?

>>7598719
consonant-vowel-consonant-vowel

>>7598746
Oh i thought it was the stressed syllables

>>7596979
Is the latter poem about musturbatting?

I've lost the link but there are some interesting collections of haikus by kamikaze pilots written just before take-off on their final flights. You can Google.

>>7599296
No, just talking about his lonely dick and how he has so much to give sexually but can't because of monkhood.

>>7599484
Ah I see.. I assumed that involved kind of maturation too is all.

>>7593705
>>7593705
Still looking for help with this one.

>>7591982
>Any good book of old Japanese poetry
This. Anybody know of any good collections?

>>7600162
literally the fourth post itt: Manyoshu
heard good things about Kokin Wakashū aswell, but i have no real knowledge of it

>>7600176
I meant more modern as opposed to very very early medieval period.

>>7599296
>>7599484

I always just assumed it was about jacking off. Ikkyu never let his monkhood get in the way of having a good time.

Ten days in this temple and my mind is reeling! Between my legs the red thread stretches
and stretches.
If you come some other day and ask for me,
Better look in a fish stall, a sake shop, or a brothel.

And this one I love,

It has the original mouth but remains wordless;
It is surrounded by a magnificent mound of hair.
Sentient beings can get completely lost in it
But it is also the birthplace
of all the Buddhas of the ten thousand worlds.

Who are the best modern (not contemporary) japanese poets?

>>7592084
>Manyoshu II
How did you get this?
All i can find are collections of 1000 (seemingly) random poems from it, and the first book

>>7592084
This reminds me of Kurosawa's Kumonosu-jo.

>>7604103
Anyone?

Does /lit/ not like real jap shit?

>>7604103
The art's library at my uni has 6-7 books on the manyoshu. If you don't go to uni you're fucked unless you want to read it in a language other than english.

>>7608446
I'll check mine out, doubt we have it though

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Does anyone love Saigyo as much as me?

Clear waters unchanged
in a meadow
I saw once long ago,
will you remember
this face of mine?

Masked by the snowflakes,
The color of your petals
May well be hidden:
Yet still put forth your scent
That men may know you flower.
-Ono Takamura

On the night when rain falls driven by the wind, when snow falls mingled with the rain
Feeling helplessly cold, I take a lump of hard-baked salt and nibble on it
While I sip sake lees diluted in hot water, I cough and sniffle with a running nose
Stroking my scanty beard, I say in my pride "There's none greater than I!"
But I am still cold, and so I pull up my hempen bedclothes around my shoulders
And, though I put on every sleeveness jacket I have, the night is still cold
As for the man poorer than I am, his father and mother must be starving and growing numb with cold
His wife and children must be begging for food and crying
At times like these, how do you manage to get through your life?

(Reply by The Destitute Man)

Although they say that the heaven and earth are vast, have they become cramped for me?
Although they say that the sun and moon are bright, do they not favor me with their light?
Is it the same with all men, or thus for me alone?
By rare chance I was born a man, and as any man I toil to make a living on the land
Wearing only tattered clothes, an unpadded sleeveless hemp jacket hanging from my shoulders like seaweeds
And in this dingy low-roofed hut, this crooked hut with leaning walls, I lie on straw spread on bare ground
With my parents near my pillow, and my wife and children at my feet, huddled together bewailing and moaning
No smoke rises from the cooking stove, and in the pot a spider spins its web.
While we moan and groan oblivious even of the very way of cooking rice
"To cut the end off of what is already very short," as the saying goes,
There comes the voice of the whip-brandishing village headman, shouting for me, standing outside the place where we sleep.
Is it really this hopeless, the path of a man's life in this world?

-Yamanoue Okura

>>7610828
I like these

>>7604103
Copy and paste >>7592084 into google, only a couple results will pop up. It's Temcauley that has a huge archive of em.

>>7610893
thanks, but i was more referring to a physical copy i can buy