Is there truth in mass market literature? Are we the plebs for not reading the hunger games? Are we not in on the joke that everyone else is in on? Is Pynchon less culturally relevant than John Green? Is poptimism necessary in literature?
>most people are average or stupid
>mass consumption produces mediocrity
Some great works are universally popular.
>Life's too short to be a stuck up, unlikable faggot
And, given our short lifes, you decide to spend it reading literature for plebs? That's like saying "Life is too short, sleep all day"
>I read just about anything
>Life's too short
lol it should be the other way around. You can only read a limited number of books in your life so why don't you choose to read the greatest artistic achievements of mankind rather than pleb trash?
It would be like passing over the complete works of Beethoven, Bach, and Wagner in favour of Chart music and Hip-Hop....
I disagree with poptimism and I think that these works speak for themselves. The hunger games pales in comparison to anything Cormac McCarthy writes. John Green cannot hold a candle to David Foster Wallace.
It is an important thing to distinguish masterpieces from generic works. Credit needs to be given where credit is due.
Hey, if you want to sleep all day, whatever, I don't give a shit.
I like it all. I like a good Faulkner novel, but I like stephen king too. If you can't stand that, I really don't care.
who really gives a shit. I read and enjoyed the Hunger Games novels, I thought that they were pretty damn good for what they were. They're meant for young adults and who knows how many young adults are going to get into literature because of them.
I'm a 28yr old lit/phil double major steeped in all of the good stuff that comes along with that, but I enjoyed HG as a fun read. Shit's brutal too.
Wait wait....So you're saying that you don't feel the need to read only classic literature in order to reinforce the pseudo-intellectual fantasy version of yourself that you've created as a defense mechanism, so you can tell yourself that everyone hates you because you're superior to them?
How is that even possible?
You read really popular young adult novels and dislike more complex ones?
Shit, what rebellious free spirits.
Truly you must be the new generation of intellectual leaders. Why bother reading something with some objective merit when you can read Winnie The Pooh? Damn... Whoa...
>Is poptimism necessary in literature?
I am so fucking sick of /mu/. It's easily the worst board on 4chan, below /b/, below /pol/, below /v/, below /mlp/. I knows it bait but it doesn't matter, I want to physically hurt every single person who posts there when I see these superficial freshmen coming to /lit/ to fish for approval of their favorite rapper, who can only speak and think in memes, who have never read Infinite Jest but post ten thousand screenshots from that stupid fucking YouTube video.
Go ruin some other board, seriously. If you don't read books then why are you coming here? /lit/ is not your big brother, it is not there to coddle you and give buttpats of approval. I sincerely mean this, fuck off
>It isn't pop because it has messages against the system
>Is poptimism necessary in literature?
yes. shitty books are vital to the publishing of good literature in my country. part of the money they make selling trash is used to translate and publish books by authors that don't bring any profit to the publisher (gombrowicz, pynchon, marai, sebald, bernhard, modiano, barthelme, etc)
I apologize if I'm coming across as rude or upset; I zippered my penis as I was getting dressed this morning and I'm in a significant amount of pain. I'm not going to read this thread or look for your post where you explain your position because I can immediately tell you do not know much about literature and do not regularly post on /lit/ (your awkward use of the adjective "vitriolic" combined with a fucking adverb gave it away). Because of this, your opinion is unfortunately worthless.
I'm going to ask you to reread my previous post now because I'm very serious about it. Go do it, right now. 4chan is more than just a hobby for me, it's an integral part of my life, and you are causing me significant grief with your idiotic and ignorant babbling. Please, either read a book before posting or just close your mouth.
N.B. Most of my fellow /lit/izens would probably prefer if you chose the latter
you may not like their music (which is fine by me, i personally like them) but in no way is thom yorke a popstar. He's not big on social media, he's actually kind of a recluse and sometimes timid individual. You could consider him to be one in the OK Computer era but that's almost 20 years.
There is good and bad stuff. Page turners are an actual thing. The Lincoln Lawyer was a great book and I enjoyed it, which is how I know it's plebeian.
But I have tastes, I'm not an indiscriminate reading machine. I remember deciding to alternate between pleb and patrician ("fun") books. After reading pale fire, then trying some sort of sci fi book, I instantly realised that this distinction was dumb.
Fantasy is generally shit though. Page turners are great by definition. When I realise that I'm enjoying a book, this is a mark of plebitude
Some great works are exceptions. The universally popular works are so known that the average person feels smarter by consuming them.
In cinema this would be equivalent to Tarantino movies. People like them, but if the same exact movies had a different director they woulnd't necessarily like them, because there wouldn't be a "I am smart for liking this" quality attached.
Also, they have to be easily digestible with no effort put in. Tarantino and Orwell are known/ loved by them for their simplicity but they will view Joyce and Tarkovsky as too hard, boring or elitist.
The Hunger Games novels are absolute dog shit
That's cool that you like dog shit but a lot of people don't get enjoyment out of reading it.
I honestly believe John Green is a better writer than that bitch.
Depression has refined my taste. I used to get enjoyment from YA books and shitty fan service moe anime, but now I don't enjoy anything. Literally nothing, not even masturbation. Reading literary fiction is however all I spend my time doing, since I have to fill the void somehow and I can at least appreciate its aesthetic superiority.
95% of the people on this board with sophisticated taste in english lit are pure, unvarnished pleb when it comes to higher art. that's not counting all the undergraduates.
there are OxBridge exceptions but not many.
you don't want such aesthetic gluttony that you vanish up your ass. that's a problem for high society -types who come to this shit late in life as fundraiser adjuncts.
but for most people who are trying to piece together emotional coherence with an above-subsistence-level lifestyle, historical and cultural ignorance is the real problem.
feel good that you have a relationship with art, but not so good that you delude yourself into feeling like an english major is a good life decision.
I was the opposite, it's when I was depressed that I didn't care and would just consume utter trash. Although I do miss the cheap thrills sometimes. Hard to get too excited about most literary fiction.
The first line is true, especially since there is a time when someone wanders off /b/, comes here, reads pynchon, and thinks he is a patrician.
The other part however is false, because there are many, many shitty shitty shitty books out there.
I think the hunger games is much too far, but if you're trying to ask if the mainstream has some kind of value I think you should look towards like the Patterson tier of books. Using YA throwaway trash is cheating and making the question unnecessarily extreme.