>And because the condition of Man, is a condition of Warre of every one against everyone; in which case every one is governed by his own Reason; and there is nothing he can make use of, that may not be a help unto him, in preserving his life against his enemyes; It followeth, that in such a condition, every man has a Right to every thing; even to one anothers body.
this is the kind of stuff that makes me want to kill myself even more.
The whole "just be happy hur dur" bs is the worst kind of self-delusion you can have. There are problems and I would rather be upset about them and understand the full extent of them than just convince myself they are not so bad and watch things fall apart.
>>7573979 most people view the suicidal as people with lives that aren't actually so bad, or can be easily improved, but are momentarily rendered irrational by extreme depression or some catastrophic occurrence.
it's hard for most people to understand that some peoples lives are bad and always were, and always will be.
>>7573126 Yeah, exactly. Man that dude is a fuckin pessimist, dude. Bet he didn't get a lot of pussy, am i right? Read "The Conspiracy against the Human Race: A Contrivance of Horror" myself, tried commiting suicide. And now I'm dead.
>>7574320 Just check out some of his interviews on Thomas Ligotti Online site. There was an interview with him recently where he talked about being taken to the hospital after passing out in his home from some kind of stomach issue. After seeing the sheer number of medications he had laying around, the medics immediately assumed it was an overdose.
>>7574417 from "I Have a Special Plan for This World"
One needs to have a plan someone said who was turned away into the shadows And who I had believed was sleeping or dead Imagine he said all the flesh that is eaten The teeth tearing into it The tongue tasting it's savour And the hunger for that taste Now take away that flesh he said Take away the teeth and the tongue The taste and the hunger Take away everything as it is That was my plan My own special plan for this world I listened to these words and yet I did not wonder If this creature whom I had thought sleeping or dead would ever approach his vision Even in his deepest dreams Or his most lasting death Because I had heard of such plans such visions And I knew they did not see far enough But what was demanded in a way of a plan Needed to go beyond tongue and teeth and hunger and flesh Beyond the bones and the very dust of bones and the wind that would come to blow the dust away And so I began to envision a darkness that was long before the dark of night And a strangely shining light That owed nothing to the light of day
>>7572432 As much as you faggots disagree with this anon, he is right. Whatever problem you have causing suicidality is temporary. Even if for some reason you cannot overcome nihilism, tfw no gf, or whatever modernity-induced problem you have, killing yourself is still not the answer. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Suicide will hurt people that are not you. It's a selfish act.
>>7574360 That's unfortunate. I feel bad for him. I would hope he could somehow find happiness, but given the opinions he's expressed in Conspiracy Against the Human Race, I think that's pretty much impossible. (But at least we get some of the best supernatural horror ever written.)
>>7575792 Read Phaedo. In the meantime, Hamlet. When he returns in act v he has overcome his fear of death and says the following (about death):
Not a whit, we defy augury: there's a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, 'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all: since no man has aught of what he leaves, what is't to leave betimes?
>>7575792 “So death, the most terrifying of ills, is nothing to us, since so long as we exist, death is not with us; but when death comes, then we do not exist. It does not then concern either the living or the dead, since for the former it is not, and the latter are no more.” ― Epicurus
>>7572421 Reminder that suicidal thoughts are the result of poor health and are never rationally conceived. Life is meaningless and we all die? If you're healthy and social with people you like and respect, none of this will matter.
>tfw hallucinations are starting to get more vivid and common >normally see bugs on a wall in my peripheral vision or see something move in my room like something ran past it >im not even 20 yet >know it's going to get worse in age
>>7577164 If you're seeing shit it is serious enough for medication. There are pros and cons to taking meds though. I used to be on them but I'm not anymore. About the family stuff I can relate, my family used to hate me too but it got better. Of course there's always some new bullshit to come take its place though
>>7577078 >Be 18 >Start hallucinating this past few years >Shadows peeling themselves off the walls and attacking me >People in pictures moving as if they were standing in front of me >All text I see tends to warp and change color, sometimes it briefly switches font right in front of my eyes >Communicating is difficult because parts of people's faces keep moving around when I'm talking to them >Gradually getting more violent
On the bright side, I've been more creative and thoughtful than ever before. Just keep your chin up, m8y.
>>7577078 >by the age of 14 I've been seeing fake people, little girls with white hair running behind corners, people full shades of one colour >the hallucinations now that I am 23 are so bad that I haven't been outside in 6 days hang in there
>>7574515 fuck this guy the only valid argument against suicide is the fact that you expedite a gamble; that of which lies beyond the grave >tfw reincarnated into an anal bead
the point is that you are given a solid world that works upon the laws of physics and where 2+2=4 by dying you take the chance of infinite roll if your life is that shit that you dont care about the gamble, go ahead kiddo, but every quibble and every cancer of the mind is something you have power over The way you perceive the world is always something you can change, just think back to when you were a kid and had innocent thoughts about the world, people can over come cynicism and nihilism, the latter moreso by the fact that its just a shitty infalsifiable doctrine like Solipsism (which no-one ever really believes in so why do the same for nihilism?)
If all else fails just take the Camus approach to it
>>7577642 That is an emotional obstacle. The same could be applied to people who are against the death penalty, you could say that they would change their mind if their beloved relative was killed. I do have experience with suicide by the way, but I don't necessarily want to go into it. Just letting you know I am not an inexperienced child.
>>7577613 The problem I have with this is that we cannot trust our selves. Self-deception and unconscious thinking influences our decision-making so much so that the concept of making a choice that is self-consistent seems impossible. It also doesn't help that some suicidals have identity issues and constant ego death so that self-concept seems impossible. At the same time, we cannot trust others to make life decisions for us since each others minds and subjective experiences is completely opaque and inexpressable. Suicide is really an ambigious decision.
>>7576545 I'm saying that if you eat well, exercise, have a group of close friends whom you like and respect, then you won't feel suicidal, even if you think life is ultimately meaningless. Suicidal thoughts are the result of poor health and living conditions.
>>7579056 I know for a fact that people that eat well, exercise and have a group of close friends whom they like and respect are still able to consider suicide from a philosophical standpoint. You make a whole lot of assumptions in your post.
O’er the midnight moorlands crying, Thro’ the cypress forests sighing, In the night-wind madly flying, Hellish forms with streaming hair; In the barren branches creaking, By the stagnant swamp-pools speaking, Past the shore-cliffs ever shrieking; Damn’d daemons of despair.
Once, I think I half remember, Ere the grey skies of November Quench’d my youth’s aspiring ember, Liv’d there such a thing as bliss; Skies that now are dark were beaming, Gold and azure, splendid seeming Till I learn’d it all was dreaming— Deadly drowsiness of Dis.
But the stream of Time, swift flowing, Brings the torment of half-knowing— Dimly rushing, blindly going Past the never-trodden lea; And the voyager, repining, Sees the wicked death-fires shining, Hears the wicked petrel’s whining As he helpless drifts to sea.
Evil wings in ether beating; Vultures at the spirit eating; Things unseen forever fleeting Black against the leering sky. Ghastly shades of bygone gladness, Clawing fiends of future sadness, Mingle in a cloud of madness Ever on the soul to lie.
Thus the living, lone and sobbing, In the throes of anguish throbbing, With the loathsome Furies robbing Night and noon of peace and rest. But beyond the groans and grating Of abhorrent Life, is waiting Sweet Oblivion, culminating All the years of fruitless quest.
"The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront."..."The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible."
>>7582262 When, long ago, the gods created Earth In Jove's fair image Man was shaped at birth. The beasts for lesser parts were next designed; Yet were they too remote from humankind. To fill the gap, and join the rest to Man, Th'Olympian host conceiv'd a clever plan. A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure, Filled it with vice, and called the thing a Nigger.
People who form an opinion on or against suicide typically show they know very little of despair, people who really are suicidal or will commit it do not tell any one, life becomes unbearable for a variety of different reasons and each day living becomes death by being a coward for them, it litterally controls their every waking moment. They wake up in the middle of the night and it becomes first thing they think of it, it is not just a thought, its a constant attack on their conciousness and it owns their every waking moment, they take it to bed and to work with them, they keep it hidden around friends and family. Its a personal battle they keep to them selves and the only way out is to own it and commit to it, ONCE YOU ARE IN THIS DEEP, all of the pro life arguments have long past held no real weight and those of you on here making fun of them or criticizing them are nothing but crows cawking on a power line.
Your words and opinions are your own way of dealing with this thought as you apply the situation to yourself and in a self defense mechanism hold fast to these optimistic thoughts.
People who check out typically have battled private battles for so long with no relief that they do not even think of you, when you say dont do it or that one should not kill them self, they see it as the same thoughts they once had but no longer can believe in. Have fun thinking your empty words have any effect on those who off them selves, because it literally carries zero weight.
The only thing real in life is your body and what you choose to do with it, those who try to impose their will on others are unable to realize or FACE THIS REALITY and divert their attention to others as the cowards they are.
Source: Checking out once my affairs are in order....
>Aside from the obvious problem that attempts at voluntary death can go horribly wrong, there is the problem that it isn’t a solution for those who are in extremis and want only to end their suffering. Suicide doesn’t end their suffering; it merely ends their lives. A choice to die in a state short of terrible pain and suffering could allow us to leave ourselves behind if only we didn’t feel the pressure of others to remain with them. This is understandable, and although I would like to believe otherwise, I fear that an acceptance of a desired death prior to unbearable pain will not soon if ever occur. The world and its societies would need to radically morph for that to happen.
I would never say suicide is wrong, but I'd have to agree completely with the sentiment that it's selfish. As much as people like to think their life is theirs and theirs alone, it's a truly fucked up thing to decide to come into a whole other range of persons' lives, impact them, love them, and develop relationships with them; only to decide one day you're going to take all that that you've built with those people and throw it all away because you aren't satisfied with the life you're living.
Think of how sick to your stomach you would all be if the person closest to you explained that they couldn't be that person for you anymore ever again and killed themselves. Some of you would certainly agree that it was that person's choice and you respect that decision, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people do not fall into that mode of thinking. Maybe you're objectively correct that suicide isn't inherently wrong, but that fact, true or not, doesn't negate the true, measurable, negative impact your death has on the people that you built relationships with.
Kill yourself if you must, but know it is an immensely selfish move that tears the people you love the most apart into pieces and takes away a literal part of their soul with you.
I for one was waiting for my mom(and possibly my father) to pass away before I killed myself, but my niece is about to turn six now and I'm afraid I've shared too many happy memories with her by this point.
By this point every time I call my sister and hear how excited my niece is to know I'm on the phone, I know I'm that much further from the release of death. Which can be considered unfortunate to a degree, but I like to think reason to live is better than reason to not.
>>7586695 >it's a truly fucked up thing to decide to come into a whole other range of persons' lives, impact them, love them, and develop relationships with them; only to decide one day you're going to take all that that you've built with those people and throw it all away because you aren't satisfied with the life you're living.
u're going to die anyway. regardless of cause of death (suicide, sickness, etc.) everything will be "thrown away" at some point. also, it doesnt even matter how much emotional pain you put on those who love you because when you die you wont remember them and when they die they wont remember you. it will be as if none of you existed!
>>7586951 >it doesnt even matter how much emotional pain you put on those who love you because when you die you wont remember them and when they die they wont remember you. it will be as if none of you existed!
Your existence, short and meaningless as it may be, is the complete totality of what your atoms are ever likely to consciously know about themselves. The chances that they will ever come together as a thoughtful whole is beyond improbable. To say that a life doesn't matter once it stops existing, and then to equate that same life to never once mattering during its whole conscious existence is a bold statement. And one I do not think I can agree with.
>>7577078 >>normally see bugs on a wall in my peripheral vision or see something move in my room like something ran past it Oh shit, thank you anon. I see bugs running around my bathroom floor all the fucking time, and I know for sure they aren't real. At least I'm not the only one hallucinating bugs
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