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For me what makes Star Wars particularly...
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature

Thread replies: 46
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For me what makes Star Wars particularly a work of genius for film are the various influences from the Kurosawa movies to 2001 A Space Odyssey, Flash Gordon, the Mongolian costume mixed with Sanscrit, the religions and biblical influences and Norse mythology and the Heroes Journey and countless other things all rolled into one.

My question is, is there a book along these lines which takes a huge array of source material and nods at it while making its own excellent plot and narrative? Sure, LoTR does it in terms of mythology, but it doesn't borrow or show off its prose in the way that Lucas shows off his knowledge of film and copies scenes. Dante could be said to be a tiny bit, or Shakespeare. But is there anything which gives a cheeky nod and a wink here or there to Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes and countless other authors through prose and plot while creating something epic of its own?
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>>7564985
> i need to justify that i like a children movie
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>>7565027
Welcome to contemporary art criticism, it's all about Star Wars and Harry Potter now.
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>>7564985

>>>/tv/
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>>7564985

The correct answer is Chaucer, but you might not like that you'll actually have to read a lot of medieval and antiquity literature to see how Caunterbury Tales is the medieval Star Wars.
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>>7565027
Stay plebbing reading your shit meme tier books
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star wars is a gay nerd movie for children.
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>>7565062

Can I see the full pic? Maybe I should rewatch star wars
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>>7564985

Harry Potter
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>>7564985

Finnegans Wake
Tristram Shandy
Don Quixote on many occasions
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Tommy Pinch-In and the Post-Modernos
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>>7565035
So true. So painfully, pitifully true....
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>>7564985
1. Star Wars is at best a decent children's movie that was made to sell toys and shill stupid black and white moralism, loosely inspired by Kurosawa's jidaigeki stuff. Way overanalyzed by people with ankle-deep taste who would eat dog food if enough people convinced them that it was 'complex'.

2. Kurosawa was a shit hack that Westerners praise because he adapted Western stories with Western audiences in mind. They lap it up because they think it's so "foreign" when all he really did was put Shakespeare characters in samurai armor.

3. To answer your question, I think Milton was like this but I haven't read him in a while.
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>>7564985
wow wow wee wa! what a stupid thread!

anyway the answer to your second question is "like 90% of modernist and post-modernist literature". i mean, seriously, man. think about Pound's Cantos - where he's drawing on basically the entirety of multiple poetic traditions and incorporating it all into one allusive work. it's seriously a major part of the methodology of a huge number of authors since about 1920. Off the top of my head, Pound, Eliot, Charles Olson, Louis Zukofsky for poetry (also Frank Stanford who is later and more accessible) and Joyce, Pynchon, Nabokov in prose but there's literally a million names I could list that are doing that.

Now, is anyone doing that in the form of a pulpy adventure epic? Not as far as I'm aware. LotR probably comes closest. But are people doing it, yeah, absolutely.
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>>7564985

You spelled pile of shit wrong.
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>>7565035
what happen, srs?
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>>7565062
What's the picture from?
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>>7564985
Spengler's narrative of history probably comes the closest to what you're looking for.

Spengler rejected the Ancient-Medieval-Modern schematic, but he had one of his own:
Apollonianism represents 900-100 B.C.
Magian Culture from 100-900 A.D.
Faustian Culture from 1000-2000 A.D.

But it goes a little further because while they have their own eras, you can find either of these elements within any chapter in history.

From there, it gets very complicated very fast. Godspeed.
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>>7564985
I don't think Lucas was trying to nod at those things. He's just a big nerd and his influences are clearly seen.
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'High Cultures'

2. The cyclical movements of history are not those of mere nations, states, races, or events, but of High Cultures. Recorded history gives us eight such "high cultures": the Indian, the Babylonian, the Egyptian, the Chinese, the Mexican (Mayan-Aztec), the Arabian (or "Magian"), the Classical (Greece and Rome), and the European-Western.

Each High Culture has as a distinguishing feature a "prime symbol." The Egyptian symbol, for example, was the "Way" or "Path," which can be seen in the ancient Egyptians' preoccupation -- in religion, art, and architecture (the pyramids) -- with the sequential passages of the soul. The prime symbol of the Classical culture was the "point-present" concern, that is, the fascination with the nearby, the small, the "space" of immediate and logical visibility: note here Euclidean geometry, the two-dimensional style of Classical painting and relief-sculpture (you will never see a vanishing point in the background, that is, where there is a background at all), and especially: the lack of facial expression of Grecian busts and statues, signifying nothing behind or beyond the outward.

The prime symbol of Western culture is the "Faustian Soul" (from the tale of Doctor Faustus), symbolizing the upward reaching for nothing less than the "Infinite." This is basically a tragic symbol, for it reaches for what even the reacher knows is unreachable. It is exemplified, for instance, by Gothic architecture (especially the interiors of Gothic cathedrals, with their vertical lines and seeming "ceilinglessness").

The "prime symbol" affects everything in the Culture, manifesting itself in art, science, technics and politics. Each Culture's symbol-soul expresses itself especially in its art, and each Culture has an art form that is most representative of its own symbol. In the Classical, they were sculpture and drama. In Western culture, after architecture in the Gothic era, the great representative form was music -- actually the pluperfect expression of the Faustian soul, transcending as it does the limits of sight for the "limitless" world of sound.
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>>7566000
>>7566025
This isn't really what OP is looking for. It's not even fiction. Why are you shilling that hack?
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>>7566115
The concept of the prime symbol is a fictional concept uniting a particular culture of writers and artists. It's the source of a particular strain of thinking throughout history.

If the OP is looking for in-joke references to the last thousand years of literary history, I apologize.
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The literary equivalent of the technical aspects of the film is not exactly equitable

Not that it doesn't happen but those works are "nod" to older sources, in film there is still a transference of source and inspiration, in literature there a greater ocean of works that only the most prominent rise to the surface.

There are works fashioned out of other works but not in that way that takes the most famous ones and make a mesh out of it, that would not be considered the act of passion but the pressure to be as plebian as possible

In film it works because because the newest film are the ones people know in literature that is not the case.
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>>7566149
Dat handwriting doe
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>>7565062
>>7565110
There are shit-tons of correlations between 1 and 4, 2 and 5, 3 and 6.
Scenery-wise, they respond to each other.

Example : opening sequence of the first one of each trilogy is a huge cruiser slowly filling the screen, seen from "below"

And there are thousand of those
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>Star Wars
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>>7565062
its like poetry
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>>7565110
>>7565966
>>7566613
read http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

It's about 9 pages long, and really changed my opinion of the prequels and star wars as a whole. Now you can see the effort that went into each scene in order to create something like Proust or Joyce's epic works which is easily dismissed when you're just watching it as a kids action film.

Funny how peoples aesthetics around art mostly revolves around, "this is art because I like it. this is not art because I don't like it."
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>>7566878
>that link
Oh come the fuck on.
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Ulysses is the Star Wars of literature. Obviously not quite as good due to the medium's inherent limitations compared to film.
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>>7567158
what?
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>>7564985
Joyce, family
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>>7567180
Is "Circe" the holiday special?
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>>7564985

I'm trying to get published a young adult fantasy novel I wrote that matches that description close enough. It's meant to be a satiric take on the Heroes Journey and many elements of fantasy and mythology told following the journey of a Mary Sue. I'm really hoping it will catch on among the young teenage girls who made Twilight and Hunger Games so popular but some of my influences were Dante, Homer, Joseph Campbell, Tolkien, and Manly P Hall.
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>>7567420
Structural masturbation doesn't excuse the shit effects, shit characters, shit acting, retarded inconsistencies and the illogical plot.
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>>7567496
You're going to revive the interest in literature with your work anon, I have faith in you
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>>7564985
The Divine Comedy. Literally everything that happens is a biblical or classical allusion.

e.g. when Dante first sees Beatrice he turns to Virgil to say: "I know the signs of the ancient flame". Which is what Dido says when she first sees Aeneas in the Aeneid.
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>>7565924
>a pulpy adventure epic
This is exactly what several of Pynchon's are, though. M&D, GR, V, and I think Against the Day but I haven't read it.
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>>7565908
>Star Wars is at best a decent children's movie that was made to sell toys and shill stupid black and white moralism
They didn't start selling the toys until after the 3rd movie when Lucas decided to monetize everything in sight
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>>7567520

Means a lot, anon. Once things start moving a little more I intend on promoting the hell out of it however possible. Best case scenario an agent and publishing company pick it up, worst case I'll self-publish and sell copies dressed as a Plague Doctor in Times Square.
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>>7567597
Can we get the title?
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>>7566878
I don't understand why the Ring Theory actually proves, even if true. George Lucas likes reusing ideas? Autists are good at finding nonexistent links? What?
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>>7569635
It proves that Lucas has a grand visual narrative in his work of repeating elements and that he is an artist.

Unfortunately no one notices it unless it is pointed out to them, it doesn't improve the films rather it makes them a mess of forced similarities and they are just sci-fi romps not art-house. It proves Lucas got lucky with the help of good visual stylists in the first film and even the subsequent two films are only middling, coasting on the fame of the first.
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>>7565908

A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back preceded the geekdom shit and the monetizing of the franchise.

Empire Strikes Back was and still is a GREAT film. And this coming from someone who absolutely hates sci-fi and fantasy shit. I also hate episode 1 2 and 3 and readily admit that it's angsty teenage sci fi garbage. Although Lucas was always quick to sell out he was smart... he put his entire genius into A New Hope and then handed Empire Strikes Back over to Leigh Brackett and Irvin Kershner. Brackett (who worked on the Long Goodbye and other amazing classic noir films) turned the screenplay into a work of art.

However I really don't understand people who don't feel anything after seeing the Bespin battle between Luke and Vader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY

The first time I ever watched that I felt the same way I did after finishing reading Monte Cristo or All Quiet on the Western Front. It even rivaled the feeling I got from watching some of my favorite classic films whether that be Kubrick movies or Bogart's from the 40s.
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