To me it is no surprise that concepts and tactics created or used by the Situationists are now the mainstream marketing tools used to commodify "authenticity"...fucking academic asslords. The situationists were the occupy wallstreet of their day. Deny it and be damned op.
I have OP it was very good. If you really dug the book its worth reading his follow up book he wrote about 20 years later "Comments on the SOTS", its of course not as good as SOTS but if you really liked the original you will probably appreciate and enjoy it
>>7565535 what? the issue is that icons become more real than the things they should represent. if you think that any vanguard had any use, there's a good part in the book where it deals with controlled revellion in pop music and the arts.
>>7565535 a lot of their followers and their may 68 comrades were literally the children of life long members of the Communist Party, just watch situationist films. It is well documented that all of the european left leadership fell into a process of holding their jobs, that any radical activity might challenge.
Occupy wall street is an absolute disaster and radical action literally doesn't exist in america. america and all their movements are all too stupid and garbage b/c the culture is too garbage. America is at least 5 or 6 generations behind europe in almost every way politically. You can't compare the french and america in any way at all.
>>7565560 I have read it I had a situationist phase...DeBord's conception of "the real" is as perverse as it is shallow .>>7565575 blame American culture if you like, I say that is a strawman, whereas the truth is that Marxism is itself intellectually and materially impoverished, and it is doubly a sham to revive one of its abortions from the dustbin of history...it is in fact an anti-Marxist thing to do.
also >trusting life-long members of the communist party
have you ever been involved in party politics? have you ever been involved in radical action? take it from someone who has and who has had to come to terms with the horrifying internal, structural contradictions there.
>>7566111 you're right, though I'm not sure why you think that SI was "academic"as they played a part in organizing during the '68 protests... and even if their prerogative was "disaffected liberalism", I don't see how pointing out that their tactics have been absorbed within the consumerist sphere really indicts them as a movement. Hot Topic sells Che shirts too, ya know?
>>7566150 Well, to me the student protests of 68 were exemplary of disaffected liberalism, and the SI were engaged in a recuperation of their own (and ultimately a commodification...Debord was selling books wasn't he?) When I say academic I mean it in a few ways: primarily the SI was an academic pursuit as it arose from the "academy" (i.e. the university) and was lead, at least symbolically, by burgeoning public intellectuals like Debord...it was Marxism for the Coca-Cola generation (Godard was rather insightful about this)...I don't think their tactics were necessarily "absorbed" by consumer culture, I see them rather as a result of consumer culture as a product of it...the concept of "authenticity" is the most glaring example...it is an idea that is relevant only to those who are living from a surplus of wealth...i.e. the first worlders, the students of universities, etc. I don't think concepts such as psychogeography are in any way relevant to the proletariat, no matter what a crass intellectual vanguard would have you believe. Ultimately, I have to compare the SI with Intersectional first-world feminism...It is fine as a rhetorical device, and it is fine for promoting radical politics within the scope of academia...but there is no need for such a task, in fact the theoretical side of revolutionary politics is the most disgusting form of commodification in my opinion. But then again, I admire Ravachol and Jacques Mesrine most of all. I do like it when, in the case of the RAF, dialectics and theory are used as a way of sloganizing acts of terrorism...it makes me happy when criminals are able to recuperate the work of schoolboys to sound fantastic on the witness stand.
>>7566239 thanks& i know how that feels, bro...totally deviating from my anti-academic rant, i will say i like how Zizek fucks that whole mentality by demonstrating the poverty of the "ethical over-investment" (i think that's what he calls it) paradigm of late-stage capitalism...the whole Tom's Shoes...buy organic apples bullshit. I think it was from First as Tragedy Then as Farce..Zizek is pretty cool guy really, even though i wouldn't say it to his face. >>7566221 wew lad didn't know Sigmund Freud browsed /lit/
>>7566266 Whiteness as you understand it is a recent invention of history...Do you realize how many times the arabs literally raped the racial purity out of Europeans? There is very little chance of an Irish person, or a Russian Person or anyone from Eastern Europe being white...and really, if you are a rational person, once you look at the facts long enough...racial purity might be limited to a few families in the extreme north of Europe, and among isolated aboriginals and some Native North Americans from Alaska...also what is a red pill? is that from a book?
>>7563990 Absolutely trash, not one thing of value in this book. Don't be fooled by the cool cover and provocative title, it's utter shit. Watered down Marxy crybaby shit, not worth the paper it's printed on
>>7566332 Yeah, I know... The damn Jews just made up all that stuff about how thousands of years of miscegenation should purge the very notion of racial "purity" just to get your girlfriend to leave you for a black guy. I'm sorry it happened but it's time to move on.
If we're all mixed why are there so clearly white people and darkies? To be honest just because we've all got a touch of the tar brush doesn't mean we can't still be racist. A WASP will never look like a sub saharan African and it's idiotic to say that because they both have a shared ancestor from thousands of years ago that they're related in any meaningful way.
Fuck, I have full cousins that I severely dislike and have never gotten along with.
>>7566372 I'm just gonna assume you're trolling at this point, petit Houellebecq.
If not, I'm sorry that your sad outlook on life has lead you down a path of conspiratorial thinking which enables you to you project your twisted ressentiments on to the world... and I pray to the pantheon of Cultural Marxism that the leading light of the infallible science of socialism enters your sickly heart.
>>7565606 that is what i mean, they were the children of communist party members, a party they saw as acting ineffectually and too slow. They already knew and understood marxism but wanted the radical elements of it.
whereas america occupy wall street fags are a few generations off that level of commitment to be sure
>>7567766 Yes but what did the students actually accomplish? If you want to find out I suggest watching a film by Chris Marker called "Grin Without a Cat"....socialism with a human face phases into a consolidation of left partisans in France leads to Capitalism with a socialist face...I mean just look at the state of things when the Socialist party of France hires a hedge funder like Straus Kahn and the left swallows it as "expedient" or some such shit...The only way that Paris 68 was greater than Occupy Wall Street is that it was a much greater failure and injury to radical politics than occupy could even manage. Also, good morning dude it's actually nice to talk lie this I hope I don't sound dick-ish I have just committed so much time to these things...
>>7567797 If you go and re-read "Ideology Materialized" you might see what I mean...well it's just my opinion, but here and elsewhere Debord bandies about with terms like "real life" and "illusion" a bit too metaphysically...when he finally does allude to what he might mean regarding real life it is more or less a rewash of Camus' "absurd struggle",...basically, as in Vaneigem, real life is presented as life lived in the revolutionary moment--and don't get me wrong there is something incredibly inspiring about that--but to me, coming from the mouth of a student, who ultimately never murdered a police officer or anything of the sort, it falls flat. Frantz Fanon, on the other hand...anyway I'm using an ad hominem...essentially my beef with the situational idea of "the real" is that to me it appears as just more bourgeois, white "adventurism"...the oppressive seeking of enjoyment...real life is the satiation of desire, the manufacturing of desire within one's own libidinal economy...this kind of thinking strikes me as very privileged.
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