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Science fiction and fantasy general
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature

Thread replies: 322
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>>7522067
Sword and sorcery edition
>Recommendations:
>Fantasy
>http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/4chanlit/images/a/a8/1307836551252.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110612005642
>Sci-Fi
>http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/4chanlit/images/a/a6/Scifilit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100710233344
>http://imgur.com/r55ODlL

>what are you currently reading
>favorite fantasy protagonist?
>favorite adventure story?
>>
Strange & Norrell left me kind of satisfied

Grossman's The Magicians trilogy was amusing
>>
Just read Lud-in-the-Mist, really enjoyed it. Its kind of the Fae meets Cthulhu taking over a town. Not really sword and sorcery, very different from most fantasy I've read. Anyone else read it?
>>
Requesting more Gene Wolfe themed memes. We need more new ones.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNbr4vupHk&app=desktop
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>>7553540
yessir
>>
Any recommendations for a sort of Sci-Fi Fantasy mix? When I was younger I loved reading Artemis Fowl, partly because of this mix of tech and magic.
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>>7553599
Gene Wolfe if you want to go deep, Horus Heresy if you want to read pulpy fun.
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>>7553549
What a badass. He killed many a chinaman during the war.
>>
Reposting:
There was some cunt asking for books that are like the movie inception?
Well, Ubik, Ocean at the end of the Lane, and the Fifth Head of Cerberus.
>>
>>7553499
>Fae meets Cthulhu
But pre-Tolkien Fae pretty much are Cthulhu.
>>
>>7553599
There's an entire genre of urban fantasy. You'd probably enjoy Dresden Files if you liked Artemis Fowl, maybe even Monster Hunter International. I recommended Diana Wynne Jones in the last thread, but just anything of hers especially Deep Secret, the only non-YA book she ever published. Nursery rhymes and ancient curses and a trans-dimensional magitech empire, Britishisms and sci-fi conventions and floppy-disk computer programming. Tremendously fun.
>>
>>7555814
>urban fantasy
Great thanks, this seems like exactly what I'm looking for.
>>
Fuck off back to reddit MaharynArts
>>
>>7553599
Pretty much everything published within the last 60 years?
>>
Tips on keeping my fantasy world/story from being shit?
>>
>>7553696
And he helped invent Pringles
>>
>>7556406
Avoid "Fantasy Kitchen Sink", don't just combine features from each and every Earth culture.

Establish the technical limits of your World, don't keep having decades upon decades of technological advancement every story that are set weeks apart.

Religion is important, establish it exists even if it doesn't feature in your story, mediaeval atheism is fucking retarded.
>>
>>7556406
Don't try to be poetic. You'll end up being purple af
>>
>>7556477
Well rapid tech advancement and its effect on society is an element of the story. Like tech leaks from a higher society.
>>
>>7556477
I have society's that have similar culture/aesthetics to earth cultures but no hybrids or anything
>>
thouts on prince of nothing? wanna try something dark and philosophical but imconflucted
>>
>>7556621
I've never read something so boring and Slice of Life in a book until I read it. I suppose it's dark in the sense that if you stand in the middle of a desert which has a hole in the ozone layer and hold up piece of mostly transparent plastic it's quite shady.
>>
My friends, it is here on /lit/ where the New-New Wave of SF&F should start! Let us create greatness so the fandom may toss aside hacks like Sanderson, Rothfuss, Scalzi and Weir.
>>
>>7556621
Prince of nothing is great for rape, gay and incest.
>>
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Hey /lit/ newfag here, just starting to rediscover my love of reading, I used to love science fiction as a kid.

I was wondering where you guys download your books, i'm trying to find childhood's end but I can't find it anywhere.

Also, any good sci-fi books you recommend?

Sorry for newfagging it up.
>>
>>7557138
It's cool that you're rediscovering your love for reading. I have two questions for you.

Did you look at the OP of this general? If not, go look at the URLs there.

And how good are you with IRC commands?
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>>7557204
>And how good are you with IRC commands?
Speakin' of which, what's with ebooks and formatting, grammar and spelling mistakes? It's beyond infuriating.
>>
>>7557204
I vaguely know what irc is

And no, will do
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>>7557222
OCRs are not accurate. OCR'd books are books that someone has most likely debinded (usually destroying the book in the process) and manually scanned for you so you ought to be thankful that people have put in all that effort just so someone else can read the book (not all books are published digitally.)

Second type of book is retail. These are the type that are frequently found on Bibliotik and mobilism. These types of books someone has downloaded off something like OD or bought from Amazon and removed the DRM from. These ones usually have perfect spelling.

Third type of books are non OCR'd scans. These ones are basically just scans and are often enormous in file size because each one is an image.
>>
>>7557244
*each page

When people produce OCR'd ebooks normally they must read through the entire thing and ensure there are no spelling groups. Often times there isn't as much focus on quality so a lot of misspellings and such tend to result.
You can manually spell check/edit in Calibre. Proofed OCR's are usually labelled as such by the downloaders.
>>
>>7557255
*uploaders
Fuck typos.
>>
I didn't see "lies of loche lamora" on here. Gear trilogy
>>
>>7557138
Sleator is my nigga, anon. My real nigga.

Anybody remember Bruce Coville?
>>
>>7556719
Well? What d'you propose?
>>
>>7556719
>New-New Wave of SF&F
no. we should return to pulps and cast aside anything postmodern.
>>
>>7557228
IRC commands in some channels are one option to get books for free. I've had some success getting some out of print genre fiction from private torrent sites.

Just be careful and double check how you're grabbing your books.
>>
>>7557321
>tfw Bibliotik DDOS
>>
>>7557307
Immerse yourself in non-standard influences, or nature, and write from that. Think like that. Forget the suppositions, the morality, that powers you now, and don't just forget them in a "omg imma convert to hinduism!" kind of way, don't just try to elevate your modern thinking, do away with it. Replace it. Find the greater height - not your greater height, because we're doing away with relativism. Find what needs to be branded on the world, and write that.
>>
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>>7557301
Sleator is my nigga too, never met anyone else who's heard of him

>>7557321
Anything else? Why are books so hard to find? I feel like an idiot but I can't find basic famous books like Childhood's end
>>
>>7557370
But how's that directly related to Sci-fi and Fantasy?
>>
>>7557370
It's widely considered impossible to write from the perspective of another culture because of imprinting; Religious leaders from "exotic religions" have time and time again told Westerners they'll never understand, stick with Christianity.
>>
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>The picture he was cleaning showed an armored figure standing in a desolate landscape. It had no weapon, but held a staff bearing a strange, stiff banner. The visor of this figure's helmet was entirely of gold, without eye slits or ventilation; in its polished surface the deathly desert could be seen in reflection, and nothing more.
Please tell me BotNS is like this all the way through.
>>
>>7557542
In what way?
It's great writing wise and has plenty of games Wolfe plays with you.
>>
>>7557795
>>7557542
What else by Wolfe is good besides the solar cycle books? Is Wizard Knight any good?
>>
>>7553599
China Mieville's Bas-Lag books
Stephen King's Dark Tower series
Richard Morgan's Land Fit For Heroes trilogy
>>
>>7556621
One of the GOAT modern fantasy series. Dark and philosophical describes it very well (in fact there's way too much philosophy imo).
>>
>>7557939
It's fantastic if you want to go back to an emulation of childhood knight novels.
Short stories are awesome.
Fifth Head of Cerberus, Peace and Soldier series.
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>>7557309
Thats already what the Genres have been since the 80s
>>
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What's you favorite Comfy series /lit/? Something you go back to and re-read every year or so. I just finished re-reading the Wheel of Time series. I know it gets a lot of hate, but I just can't help but like it.
>>
>>7558099
sleep tite kitter
>>
>>7557407
>Why are books so hard to find? I feel like an idiot but I can't find basic famous books like Childhood's end

Nigga. Just search the title, author, and "mobi epub." There's a 98% chance it will show up. That book is easy as shit to find.
>>
>>7557540
Which is why we make such crappy postmodern lit, it isn't really our culture. I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself well enough.
>>
>>7558174
>apple fag
I want some tight boipucci, you up for being bottom?
>>
>what are you currently reading
The Thing Itself
>favorite fantasy protagonist?
Thomas Covenant
>favorite adventure story?
Fantasy? Uuuhh, Bridge of Birds.

>>7558099
I don't have a comfy series, but I have comfy authors: Jack Vance and Glen Cook. Whenever I need a break I pick up a book by either. Luckily both were very prolific, so I still have plenty of material left.
>>
>>7557542
That went completely over my head first time I read it. I wonder how much else I missed reading those books.
>>
>>7556613
Technological advancement of any sort is not allowed in fantasy. All societies must be in a fixed state for all time.

If you aren't willing to work within the confines of the genre then fuck off and write sci-fi.
>>
>>7553485
Yeah, read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell when it was being hyped to death shortly after its publication, but it was actually a good if sometimes slow novel.

Read the Magicians Trilogy in the last few weeks for the first time, really enjoyed most of it immensely, but I got distracted a few times by the inconsistencies in "power levels" if you'll excuse my DBZ-like terminology.
>>
>>7558099
I adore TWoT, no matter what everyone says. Started reading it nearly 20 years ago, stopped after Winter's Heart because I wanted to wait till the series was finished. Reread the first few a few times. Then reread the series when the last book was nearly finished by Sanderson, enjoyed the whole experience immensely.
>>
>>7553540
please
>>
>>7559059
It's like, from dark ages to renaissance with airships powered by magic

I don't see how it's science fi
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>>7559059
>
>>
Is Conan good? Tell me why I should read it.

I'm just too tired to ask any specific questions about it
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>>7559809
It's mediocre.
Try something cooler like Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser
>>
>>7559191
Doesn't this just cause a whole heap of problems? they weren't able to manufacture anything close to a airship in the renaissance; If they're able to manufacture airships why wouldn't they power them by steam engine?
>>
Giving Starfish a try after really not getting into Echopraxia.
>>
>>7559809
A variety of stories, an expanding land not overly exploited, good prose.
>>
>>7558322
It's linux mint you ignoramus. It doesn't even look remotely like OSX.
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>>7560112
Too bad it looks like a poormans apple interface.
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>>7560123
>damage control
Good thing it can be themed in a few clicks.

Also,
>>>/g/
>>
>>7560167
How can I damage control when i didn't even write >>7558322 ?
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>>7560054
It's fantasy and I'd have to explain the magic syste, which which I don't feel like doing.
>>
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>>7560054
>they weren't able to manufacture anything close to a airship in the renaissance
Scusi?
>>
>>7560360
Fuck off Dan Brown.
>>
sup /sff/

Remember when I said I couldn't find a copy of Babel-17 that wasn't riddled with typos and then I said I might buy it from Amazon and upload it here? Of course you don't.

Well I did it anyway and here it is: http://libgen.io/foreignfiction/index.php?md5=ccbdc44920efe9c430b008b1b0a522a0
This one should be of a good quality, though let me know if something's wrong with it.
>>
>>7558174
>>7557407
Good luck finding a copy of CE that isn't fucked up.
>>
>>7560539
I remember, did you take off the DRM?
>>
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Rate my alien robot concept.
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>>7560712
That alien robot is cool as fuck. Would have sex with/10
>>
>>7560722
>Would have sex with/10
Stop you're giving away the plot to my paranormal teen romance novel
>>
most recent SF/F I read was 4 of Le Guin's Hainish novels (Rocannon's World, Planet of Exile, City of Illusions, The Word for World is Forest). good but not as good as the 2 all-time classics in that series.

reading a Culture novel soon, looking forward to that
>>
>>7560812
>Absorbing this much Marxism in such a short time
Stay safe Anon
>>
>>7560967
Don't worry about it. Those ones are just anti-colonialism and Tao.
>>
>>7559059
Pretty sure you don't get to arbitrarily decide the rules, bud.
>>
>>7556477
>Religion is important, establish it exists even if it doesn't feature in your story, mediaeval atheism is fucking retarded.

>I know better than Tolkien
>>
>>7561498
Gandalf is literally an angel.
>>
>>7557542
This was an astronaut, yes? I am too dense for some of the stuff in BOTNS
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>>7558545
>>7561543
It went over my head 2 times.
>>
>>7553599
In her name by Micheal Hicks is a rough but good series I enjoyed
>>
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So help me out here

What would you name an organization, or guild of humans, who uniquely have a metaphysical control of time
>>
>>7561828
Time Lords
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>>7561835
Das taken
>>
>>7561828
Chronomancers
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>>7561858
das da joke

>>7561862

chronomancers' guild or something like that would be ok.
>>
>>7561862
I like that, thanks mate
>>
>>7561508
>>7561828
Chronomason
>>
>>7561828
Chronochadors
>>
>>7561498
Tolkien's work was so heavily lathered in religious overtones it completely alienated East-Asian markets.
>>
>>7562130
their just foreign their not aliens idiot
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>>7560607
I did, at least it works when I try to view the file on Calibre.
Try the file yourself and tell me if it doesn't work so that I can try it again.
>>
>>7561828
Ticktockmen
Clocksmiths
>>
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>>7556477
>Avoid "Fantasy Kitchen Sink", don't just combine features from each and every Earth culture.

Basing fantasy cultures purely off existing ones without any syncretic elements is a terrible idea. Firstly, you might as well be writing historical fiction instead of fantasy, since this suggestion is such a gigantic restriction on worldbuilding.
Secondly, it can easily be alienating for audiences who feel you represent their culture poorly, as opposed to an obviously fictional country that's merely inspired by existing ones.
Thirdly, PLENTY of franchises and stories have disregarded this "rule" and are successful. Star Wars is basically a story about nazi-samurai space wizards. The Dark Tower is a fusion between the Old West and Arthurian legend. The Wheel of Time (not a series I like, but anyway) combines European, Asian and even African cultures into a single setting, the Dune series does a similar thing with a pseudo-feudal future and middle Eastern elements. Haruhi Suzumiya was popular as fuck. The Marvel and DC multiverses cover almost every topic imaginable.

>Establish the technical limits of your World, don't keep having decades upon decades of technological advancement every story that are set weeks apart.

Genuinely good advice, unless you have a story that spans generations - something that's hard to do well.

>Religion is important, establish it exists even if it doesn't feature in your story, mediaeval atheism is fucking retarded.

How is it any less retarded than the current trend of colorful polytheism in fantasy when Medieval Europe was Christian to the bone? Don't listen to this dumb faggot. Your world doesn't have to be some Tolkein-lite bullshit pretending to be hard sci-fi. If atheism, polytheism, monotheism or whatever other religious belief suits your setting, use it. It doesn't have to mimic the social trends of history on Earth.
>>
>>7559059
Medieval stasis is a common cliche but it's not essential to the genre by any means. The only person saying this is you.
>>
>>7560539
I think the links dead, just says 'no data received'
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>>7562301
Evening's Empires had people in it called tick tocks already, although they had nothing to do with time control.
>>
What are some good publishing venues for scifi short stories, maybe novellas?

I'm definitely assuming the market is oversaturated to hell and back, and that any halfway-professional outlet is either drowning in submissions from fanfic authors or retooling to be an exclusively YA vampire platform.

But is there any room for a traditional pitch? Any good trade secrets or pitfalls?

I have a couple shorts and I want to try to get them published. Not really concerned about profit or fame, but building a portfolio would be nice, so I'd rather not post them on scififorums.net or something.
>>
>>7562688
That's weird, it still works for me.
Try this link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1l2bryvsdg1nark/Delany%2C_Samuel_R_-_Babel-17_%28S.F._MASTERWORKS%29_%282010%2C_Orion%2C_9780575101838%29.mobi
>>
>>7562775
That worked, thanks. Not sure what was wrong with the other link but it was probably on my end.

One of these days when I finally get my ebook library organized I'll have to zip it up and upload it for you guys. It probably won't have anything you don't already have but I've enjoyed reading from it so far.
>>
>>7562747
A blog.
>>
Niere like reddit general
>>
>>7562747
>But is there any room for a traditional pitch? Any good trade secrets or pitfalls?

You aren't going to get any where unless you suck a lot of dick.

>so I'd rather not post them on scififorums.net or something

In a earlier thread we discussed how incestuous Sci-fi publishing in the West has become and how the industry has fostered a rabid hatred of self-publishing and web novels.
>>
>>7561877
No problem. I'm going to specialize in Chronomancy when I become a wizard.

>>7563149
>the industry has fostered a rabid hatred of self-publishing and web novels
Why is that? Seems like it may be the only route for newcomers to venture into. Is that the main reason why?
>>
>>7562747
http://semiprozine.org/semiprozine-directory/
I published a story in one of these.
Good luck.
>>
>>7563190
>Why is that?
Prestige. "Winner of the Hugo Award, Arthur C. Clarke Award, and the BSFA Award" sounds better than "Chapters: 122, Words: 661,619, Reviews: 31,302, Follows: 15,051, hundreds of thousands of views, are you even trying Tor?"
>>
>>7563227
This. Larry Correia got rich selling gun-werewolf books without even crawling on his belly in front of a publisher. They can't let that kind of lese-majeste go unpunished.
>>
>>7563234
They don't even publish China Mieville's sales figures because of how embarrassing it would be to reveal how unpopular Scifi is. Some of the most popular authors in the fucking genre have <1M lifetime sales.
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>>7563245
China Mieville doesn't sell well? I pirated Embassytown and I thought it was a fine book.
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>>7563297
You know John Scalzi? The guy printsf praise as the next coming of Jesus Christ himself? Redshirts sold less than <100k.
>>
>>7563309
Source? Need to see this for myself.
>>
>>7563314
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/16/the-state-of-a-genre-title-2013/

Do remember this book was shilled to kingdom come.
>>
So I've read The Shadow of the Torturer (in translation) and while it was OK, from threads like this I'd been expecting something better. One thing that is bothering me is how all of the characters developed close relationships in matter of hours; it made them unbelievable. Also I'm not a fan of the world Wolfe has created. I don't dig the aesthetics of it and I don't think the magic fits is. It sure feels as if the next books would clarify a lot, but I'm not sure if I care enough. Should I read them?[/spolier]
>>
>>7563331
>Redshirt ads in Times Square
>These are healthy sales
>>
>>7563443
> One thing that is bothering me is how all of the characters developed close relationships in matter of hours; it made them unbelievable

Severian is a lying piece of shit
and its heavily implied this wasn't the actual case
>>
>>7563331
So what are good sales for non-genre books? I've never paid attention to sales before so this is all Greek to me.
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>>7562421
>The only person saying this is you.

And all publishers, and the majority of readers. If your novel is going to be unsuccessful because you go against established principles of the genre then just post it on your blog instead of trying to get it published.
>>
>>7557244
>>7557255
>>7557260
Not that anon, but thanks for the info. Nice dubs.

Is there any way to know beforehand which books are OCRs and which are retail? I think places like bookzz have both. Are all books on mobilism and bibliotik retail?
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>>7563461
At least it wasn't Ancillary justice-tier sales, <30k.
>>
>>7563635
What genre? "Fantasy?" Ever heard of the Dying Earth subgenre? Vance? Moorcock? You may have heard of Terry Brooks, seems more your speed. What about Robert Jordan? Do the majority of readers reject his books because they start an industrial revolution in them? Brandon Sanderson? Yeah, he's just some no-name that can't get a book sold.
>>
https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/araz-hachadourian/ursula-k-leguin-calls-on-fantasy-and-sci-fi-writers-to-envision-alt

I don't understand, I'm so ridiculously bored of Sci-fi Communism; It's the most overdone concept in all of Science fiction, at least 80% of all novels published within the last couple of decades have non-capitalist governments. Why the fuck would you want more awful shit like China's Iron Council?
>>
>>7563958
John C. Wright's Golden Age trilogy had this intensely capitalist future and it was incredibly fresh.
>protagonist loses all his money
>wakes up in an apartment so trashy he has to use a voice command to get his carpet to massage his feet
>>
Why does everyone other than that avatarfag hate Brandonson here so much?
>>
>>7564261
He's never written a decent book.
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>>7564261
>everyone
We're not a hivemind. And it's because he's a hardworking, slightly robotic author who produces hardworking, slightly robotic books, a true proletarian, and there's nothing Marxists hate more than real proletarians.
>>
>>7564261
I don't hate Sanderson.

I think there are like atleast 3 Sanderson fans that continuously visit this general.

Why the others hate him?
It ranges from :
-his huge success in a seemingly short time.
There are people here who are older than Sanderson, and they were never published. Breeds dislike.

-his inability to "cuss like an adult", or include "one decent sex scene that doesn't take place with a married couple".
People hate that some of his religious beliefs bleed through on his writings, it doesn't bother me or the other two though(cosmerefag included).
>>
>>7561828
Timewalkers
>>
>>7564261

I don't hate him, but I do dislike his books and I suspect most people just dislike him and are being hyperbolic.

He writes fantasy because he's a fantasy fanboy, because he likes the surface elements of fantasy, the magic, the character archetypes, the adventure. The result is that his characters, his world, his story and his magic are all shallow, though readable. They're DnD adventures in translucent prose. His books are at best just good controllers of expectations. He never really evolves a complete mythology to express his morality and philosophy, like the greats, say, C.S Lewis, Tolkien, Lewis Carrol, Phillip Pullman, George R.R Martin, Mervyn Peake, etc. He isn't grappling with anything in his books other than his desire to write a fantasy book.

He doesn't even really like anything other than the magic systems enough to develop them fully. And the sort of background lore hint dropping.

He's a 99 cent store Neil Gaiman.
>>
>>7564394
But Neil Gaiman is the 99-cent store Neil Gaiman.
>>
>>7564361
>-his huge success in a seemingly short time.
>There are people here who are older than Sanderson, and they were never published. Breeds dislike.
>-his inability to "cuss like an adult", or include "one decent sex scene that doesn't take place with a married couple".
>People hate that some of his religious beliefs bleed through on his writings, it doesn't bother me or the other two though(cosmerefag included).
Those are both wrong.

Fucking kill yourself. There's been post after post about why Sanderson sucks.
>>
>>7564443
And there explanations range from, popularity (reddit) to made up cuss words and pg13 ya novels with no rape.
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>>7564466
>Shit prose
>Read like video games
>Shallow plots with no themes
>>
>>7564466
I've outlined my objection to him here >>7564394

I've read four Sanderson novels, too. I'm not just shitting on him because he's a popular name.
>>
>>7564473
>no themes
What do you mean? The Mistborn trilogy was all about unintended consequences, when everything they do gets amplified a thousand times until they need someone to become a literal god to sort it out. Warbreaker's all sacrifice, everyone has to sacrifice something or someone, how there are good sacrifices and bad ones.

>>7564394
>He isn't grappling with anything in his books other than his desire to write a fantasy book.
And the question of why we should obey laws when there isn't a clear purpose for them, and how we can keep loving God when he's actually caused all the tragedy in our lives, and on whether heroism is a development of personal virtue or the pursuit of heroic norms.

He's a foreigner to you guys. Comes from a different world, different moral system. And what does GRRM grapple with, anyway? Pullman? Are you arguing that the bloated mess that was The Amber Spyglass has a complete mythology behind it?
>>
Time travel is shit tier don't use it.
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>>7564579
This, it makes too many paradoxes and plot holes.
>>
>>7563646
Bibliotik has a retail tag and any non retail book is trumpable. To be retail on Bibliotik it must be hand ripped as stated in the rules. (Everything you download and rip yourself off sites like EBL, Ebrary, amazon, kobo and OD are technically retail however bibliotik has an additional rule that any calibre embedded metadata like the remembered page numbers and the like don't count as retail.) Bibliotik is currently down due to DDOS so all the invite threads on what.cd have been pulled but they'll be back in the invite forum once it's back up. Posts on what.cd imply that the admins are busy but they secured hosting for three months.

Books that are OCR'd tend to be slightly larger in size than retail. On bookzz has both, mobilism is mostly retail I believe (retail books are always easier to get deDRM'd; not many people bother scanning!) but I got a few books a few years ago that were OCR'd and icky.

#bookz appears to have both types (I think Bookz is an aggregator site for everything that comes into mobilism and then some). MAM has both.

I'd stick to mobilism and bib for retail stuff and if it's not there first you can always try other sites.
>>
>>7564763
*
apparently bib also has a script to check whether or not a book is retail but I don't think anyone knows the exact details on how a check is conducted.
>>
>>7563635
>And all publishers, and the majority of readers.

Sure buddy. Stats from the official journal of pulleditoutofmyass.
>>
>>7563646
>2016
>not getting the audiobooks
>>
>>7565580
>replying to someone who has just started reading and thinks she's an expert
Just ignore her.
>>
>>7563635
Tbh a lot of fantasy is often subverting tropes, like Moorcock making his sas protagonist an edgy teen, Wolfe making his fantasy not fantasy with a lying asshole for a protagonist.
>>
>>7566830
lying asshole protagonists ain't subverting shit.
>>
>>7564763
>>7564770
Thanks anon, this is useful info. I wish I'd known this before.
>>
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Just finished the first Prince of Nothing trilogy.
I liked it a lot, but I felt that Bakker was trying too hard to make Kellhus look intelligent by making everyone more and more retarded. Pic related.
>>
>>7560712
Really like this.
>>
Please recommend me The Fifth Head of Cerberus tier books.
>>
>>7566909
You can't write characters more intelligent than yourself, and since Bakker was writing a guy who was basically a perfect genius who can predict the future via memes he had to dumb it down a bit. Also you have to remember people back then in Kellhus times were pretty stupid.
>>
>>7566832
In context of fantasy? It's quite uncommon.
>>
>>7567209
I liked the gay, rape and incest in Fifth Head of Cerberus series.
>>
>>7567209
Other Wolfe works?
Chesterton and Borges, Man Who was Thursday and Fictions.
>>
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>>7567008
Help me come up with a story for it!

I originally thought of the hair things as a means of facilitating a race of alien emissaries that would represent the most generalized form of intelligence possible and that would, after coming into contact with another alien civilization, begin to parametrize themselves to be more in line with said civilization for the purposes of eventually acting as the go-betweens for the original manufacturers and the new group.

This was before the 3D ROM/genome idea, which lead to a more generalized version of the technology. Now it could have been more like some alien civilization's equivalent of the printed circuit board, ubiquitous in all of their technology and able to make anything from static objects to the original emissary idea depending on the genome used. That's just kind of back-story though, the story I was envisioning concerns itself mostly with the emissary part of it.
>>
Here sf&fg, I made this for you.
>>
>>7567718
Not bad, although I don't recognize all the novels.
>>
>>7567718
>The Last Question
Good taste desu
>>
>>7567718
Damn that's some good shit and some new recs to me.
I don't know about that Vance though. Dying Earth is good, but it's not his best. You should put the Jack Vance Treasury on there instead. It's got the best excerpts from Dying Earth (Couple adventures of Cugel, Guyal of Sfere, Chun the Unavoidable) along with his other greats like Dragon Masters, Last Castle and Moon Moth.

I would also suggest Otherwise by John Crowley on there. Collection of his first three novels, all science fiction, The Deep, Beasts, and Engine Summer. The Deep is the stand out, but Engine Summer is also very, very good. Beasts is ok.
>>
>>7567718
>The Lathe of Heaven
I too remember highschool.
>>
Guys new Wolfe memes are necessary
>>
>>7567718
Canticle isn't as good as people say. The head being the return of Christ or something was just way, way too far out.

Otherwise solid.
>>
>>7567857
Haven't red much of what you mentioned, I'll have to check some of them out.
>>7567863
It's pulp, but I like it. Didn't know it was part of a typical high school curriculum in some places.
>>7567884
Agree to disagree about Canticle.
>>7567756
>>7567833
Thanks!
>>
>>7567874
And they need a bigger vocabulary.
>>
Is it me or is Speculative fiction a lot less mainstream then it has been in the past few decades?

Seems like that mosts works are published through the small press or self-published, only if you're a big name like GRRM, King, Gaiman, or Gibson will you get published by a big company and get mainstream recognition. It seems like the only new big author in recent years is Andy Weir.
>>
>>7568209
SF has been overrun by plebs desu. There is little interest in exploring concepts that spec fiction did.
>>
Can anyone recommend something like the southern reach triology? Besides Lovecraft.
>>
>>7568851
Roadside Picnic
>>
>>7567718
Make some for fantasy. If I make the next thread, I'll upload your pic and put it in the OP.
>>
>>7568209
Probably because science fiction has become "Communism has never been tried" fiction and fantasy has become "Fuck you for being white"sy.
>>
>>7568209
What about John Scalzi?

There's a whole industry of "Big Bang Theory" tier SF that is pretty big right now.
>>
>>7569430
Discussed in this very thread, a £3.4M, 13 Book deal; 10 year exclusivity deal is pretty evident that he doesn't sell particularly well.

Even he himself has voiced concern about his declining sales and how Tor might cut their loses and cancel the contract.
>>
>>7569369
I haven't read enough fantasy to make a rec chart, another anon will have to take the lead on that.
>>
>>7553540
Got one for you senpai
>>
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>>7569430
>"Big Bang Theory" tier SF
>>
>>7569660
Don't forget The Martian, or is that speculative
>>
>>7569943
The Martian is a throwback to the Niven-style "competent dude gets in a fix and uses this specific scientific knowledge to get out of it" SF. Nothing to do with meme SF.
>>
>>7569976
There were a *few" memey moments, like when he calls a "kilowatt per sol" a "pirate ninja".
The movie took memeing to the next level however.
>>
>>7557138
Back again, Childhood's end was spec-fucking-tacular.

Excited to explore more science fiction!
>>
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>>7553540
>>
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>>7553599
Eisenhorn

>>7556406
Avoid lore

>>7557138
gen lib rus ec

Ender's Game
Windup Girl
Stand on Zanzibar

>>7562747
Something that wouldn't print anything

>>7567209
Read Virginia Woolf, To the Lighthouse and read Nabokov. Wolfe is the only classically great author that wrote strictly genre fiction.

>>7569976
Martian's plot is for gullible and its prose is below illiterate.
>>
>>7569415
But you see, that stuff was still being written when Speculative fiction was still popular with people like Samuel R. Delaney (Return to Neveryon was a fantasy series based on critical theory) and Joanna Russ was a feminist Sci-Fi writer who even criticized The Left Hand of Darkness.

Sure, maybe Sci-Fi has turned into a lot of bad political tracts (I myself am as equally annoyed with bad right-wing Sci-Fi with guys like Orson Scott Card), but it's not like Speculative fiction has never been this way.
>>
>>7569473
Pretty sure Scalzi really wants to be in Andy Weir's spot.
>>
>>7570995
>like Orson Scott Card
Did you just name the first right-wing author you could think of? Because it came to a massive shock when people found out he was a homophobic Mormon, he wrote Songmaster for fuck-sake and almost every book he writes has a diverse as fuck character list.
>>
>>7568209
Probably because all the greats are dead, dying, or past their prime.

I would also like to add Dave Mitchell is a person everyone should be reading, he's a speculative fiction author who is definitely accepted by the mainstream.
>>
>>7571024
Listen, I liked Ender's Game, but he's really has gone off the crazy train in recent times.

I remember reading part of a book he wrote involving liberals rebelling using mechas, it was laughable.

Also, this is coming from a guy who's a big Lovecraft fan.
>>
>>7571031
Also, avoid guys like Scalzi or Cory Doctorow. If they have their way all Sci-Fi would be like Ready Player One.
>>
>>7571049
Those guys are more concerned with their standing in Sci-Fi fandom then their writing.
>>
>>7571063
Speaking of which:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=85gOB2BpirI

Fuck.
>>
>>7569552
I actually found that one and posted it here, guess it spread.
So nothing new.
>>
Any of you guys like Vance? Trying to get a hold of his Demon Princes but nowhere has them. Any ideas /lit/izens?
>>
>>7571313
Torrent
>>
>>7559809
I'm about eight stories in to the collected works, good pulpy fun.
>>
>>7571315

Tried all my standard places, only copies I can find are 0 seeds/peers/fucking everything.
Only physical books I can find will take weeks to get to me, and God fuck it, I want to read it now.
Or, if any of you fine gentlemen can recommend me a similar weird as fuck tale of revenge, hopefully one more easily torrentable, that would also work.
>>
>>7571327
Leave the torrent up for a few weeks.
>>
>>7571327
http://gen.lib.rus.ec

you spack
>>
>>7571313
https://mega.co.nz/#!Zs9E2QBB!16hhTWYvrr6JKTw5UbGdRKL_kDkssnKtseMsrFXoq_Q
Nabbed off MAM

>https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Bookz
>myanonamouse, bibliotik (when up ;_;), what.cd has some books which people scan/deDRM
>kat.cr, the pirate bay (less useful for books due to the utterly shit retention), btdigg for DHT searching, rutracker
>audiobook bay for audiobooks (I believe they have ebook bay too but that's probably shit because of retention)
>soulseek (sometimes people will have copies of stuff which is poorly seeded on public trackers)
>/lit/ might also have stuff in the archives. If you're after art books, sometimes /m/, cgpeers, exhentai, /ic/ have them too.
>There are also some tricky ways of ripping the original book from amazon trials (guides are posted on private trackers) or getting books from free by requesting a refund.
>You can also rip a bunch of books off overdrive which is what most trackers doo.

I check public trackers public trackers, #bookz, mobilism, MAM, bibliotik (if up), WCD, archives
>>
>>7562688
>>7562775

Confirming it's not just the other guy
>>
>>7555629
Don't know if either of you are still here, but Lathe of Heaven is a great one.
>>
>>7571313
>Any of you guys like Vance?
I keep a picture of him in my Wallet.

Frankly he's just a massively superior Wolfe.
>>
>>7571519
Woah slow down
>>
>>7567857
The Cugel novels are fucking gold though, you should just read them straight through.
>>
>>7571383
The fiction section hasn't worked for ages, you absolute dobber.
>>
>>7571313
Yes, I have all his books. Slowly going through all of them.

Most (all?) of his stuff has been released as ebooks on Spatterlight Press (i.e., jackvance com) site. They use the VIE editions as the source.
>>
>>7569430
Try his novel Lock in, it's great.
>>
>>7571585
I'm not disagreeing, but if I had to recommend just over Vance book it's be the Treasury. I'd trade the complete Cugel for The Dragon Masters any day.
>>
Guys give me a list of starter fantasy.

If my autism is feeling particularly high, I will make a chart. Some anon made a sf list and it was upped, now another anon has made a list.

That is two new sf charts and 0 fant ones.
I have a few, tell me what you think.

The magic goes away - Larry Niven
Coldfire Trilogy
Felix Castor
Codex Alera
Dresden files
Iron druid chronicles
Night angel -Brent Weeks(yes, yes I know, but we need dasy reads, that captures the reader's attention and imagination)
>>
anyone else read [Limit] by frank schatzing?

I guess it was ok but there were some boring parts
>>
Finally got a chance to finish Aurora by KSR. Too many mixed feelings to describe. I must say though, I think KSR hates majority of the human race (and rightfully so desu).
>>
Hey, lit, what are some good sci-fi books with epic space battles of large fleets?
>>
>>7571773
Horus Heresy stuff desu
>>
>>7571773
Fall of Hyperion has a massive space battle going on throughout the entire book
>>
>>7571773
Jack Campbell, Lost Fleet.
>>
>>7571913
I was gonna recommend that myself, although they're not large and more strategic.
>>
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Oh man, it's been so long since I've read any good fantasy. I thought I had read it all years ago.
Thanks for the long list of suggestions, /lit/.

I'd like to suggest that The Redemption of Althalus is added to the fantasy suggestion list, by the way.
Not entirely sure how to categorize it, though. Probably misc.
>>
There ought to be a children's fantasy/fairytale fantasy category as well, I think.
For stuff like
>The Neverending Story
>Ronia The Robber's Daughter
>The Witches
>The Brothers Lionheart
>Narnia
>Abarat
>The Little Vampire
>The Hobbit
>The Spook's Apprentice
etc.
>>
>>7571088
And of course they choose the worst 1-star reviews to make their "haters" look bad.
>>
>>7572037
I only recognize Rothfuss who is the 2nd worst author I've ever read.
>>
Can you still lose yourself in fantasy worlds, /lit/?
I can't remember the last time I was truly able to, though the memory of that feeling is so fucking tantalizing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Zp3dwBf_0
>>
So I finished the Hyperion Cantos. All four of the books were pretty great, though I felt like Book 2 stalled out a little... Anyway.

Can someone suggest something for me? Not necessarily Sci-Fi and not necessarily Dan Simmons, but something that provides that genuine warm feeling of satisfaction after completing the story. I was able to get very 'into' the Hyperion stories and almost felt a little bereaved after I had finished them all.
>>
>>7572227
>All four of the books were pretty great

>leaving loose ends hanging is pretty great
>not providing an explanation to significant plot entities is pretty great
Huh. I honestly don't know what to recommend because I've somehow managed to forget most of the purely-shit fiction I used to read.
>>
>>7561828
>time fiddlers
>adventure timers xD
>Timesliders
>The Tic Tockers
>We Oclock
>the Timely ones

ur welcome
>>
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>>7556254
>this thread existing
>200+ replies
Absolutely fucking pathetic, leave.

H
E
L
L
O

R
E
D
D
I
T
>>
>>7572386
You still read shit fiction, Sandersonfag
>>
>>7572489
>people are actually discussing books instead of posting pepe and talking about trump
Hello /pol/
>>
>>7572511
I am tempted to read Sanderson to add him to my meme trilogy of shit with Scalzi and Rothfuss.
>>
>>7573427
Fantasy doesn't have a trilogy.
>>
>>7553599
Dune, although the fantasy is pretty subtle and explainable as very soft sci-fi.
>>
>>7571626
Maybe not for you, works fine on my end, in both Ireland and Australia.
>>
>>7574339
Dune is the fucking Silmarillion of Sci-fi. Only without any good prose or poetry.

You have to be a literal autist to enjoy any part of that.
>>
>>7571406

You're brilliant, thanks.
>>
Can we rename the next thread Speculative fiction general?
>>
>>7575110
No. We can name it speculative fiction edition though.
>>
>>7575110
Speculative fiction is excluding a lot of going stuff
>>
>>7571406
not >>7571313
but felt you deserved props for actually being helpful
>>
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>>7563887
I love Brandon Sanderson's magic systems but his prose is horrid.

Any recommendations for fantasy writers with good prose/style?
>>
>>7575989
Can't go wrong with Jack Vance.
>>
>>7576094
You can, after reading his works you realize how many authors outright copied his shit.
>>
>>7576161
That sounds more of a problem with the copiers and not Vance himself.
>>
What is some good post apocalyptic sci-fi.
Did some searching and Wool seems like it has an interesting concept. I think I might buy it.

Also considering starting another horror sci fi.

Last one I read was Whitley Strieber's The Forbidden Zone. Thought the first half was really good. I wouldn't say the second half was bad but it was way too repetitive and spread out. It started to pick up again near the end but when it finally did I really wasn't feeling the happily ever after Disney tier ending.
>>
>>7577289
Ship Breaker.
>>
>>7575989
I don't mind Stormlight Archives. His prose is simple and gets the point across without delving into flowery descriptions or page long rants.
>>
Who is a good, current sci-fi author? If you had to pick one book to get someone who hasn't read scifi since the 70s caught all the way up to 2016, what would it be?
>>
>>7577379
Gene Wolfe of course. He started writing in the 70s and is still doing it. There's around 10 of his works worth reading.
Fifth Head of Cerberus
Book of the New Sun
Peace
Book of the Long Sun
Book of the Short Sun
Soldier Series
The Wizard Knight
Selected Short stories
>>
>>7577358

I think Sanderson's prose is fine until he grinds everything to a huge fucking halt to elaborate on how his magic system works, like a tutorial in a video game. I can't take him seriously.
>>
>>7577289
>What is some good post apocalyptic fiction.
The Broken Empire Trilogy.
>>
>>7577924
In the Stormlight Archives, that's never. Everything's explained on the run, we see somebody doing something and see someone figuring that out later. I don't really know what you're talking about.
>>
>>7577924
That only happens in Mistborn book 1 and it's much better than authors who suddenly digress into overpowered magic bullshit.
>>
>>7578221
>I don't really know what you're talking about.
It is a classical fallacious argument known as a strawman, anon. In this case, people constantly bring up a topic while claiming that other people constantly bring up said topic.
>>
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>>7553481
Is there a recommended reading list for the Expanded Universe? I don't really want to wade through all the YA books, I just want to know what I'm talking about when I discuss things and I'm a glutton for pain.
>>
>>7578392
Apparently I asked people on /tv/ and they played these 3 games or something. It's awful, I hate games
>>
>>7578407
The games aren't bad. Well, they used to be good anyway.

Which games?
>>
>>7578416
KOTOR 1 and 2 and SWTOR apparently have most of the lore.
I'm more of a book person so I get unmotivated to play games really quickly. And as far as I know, there's no real novel equivalent.
>>
>>7578424
Those are all RPGs. SWTOR I don't recommend for a variety of reasons, but both KOTORs are more like very interactive novels.

Also an aside, who's excited for Morning Star?
>>
>>7571703

None of that shit is starter fantasy, except maybe Dresden Files.

Starter Fantasy:

Lord of The Rings
Stormlight Archives
Game of Thrones
Farseer Trilogy
Magician

....off the top of my head. Starter fantasy should be high quality or otherwise well-known and typical works of the sub-genre
>>
Hey /lit/ just finished Use of Weapons, is it the best of Banks' Culture books? I have Player of Games but I don't want another disappointment like Consider Phlebas...
>>
>>7578494
>Game of Thrones
Ew
>>
>>7578543

note the
>otherwise well-known and typical works of the sub-genre
in my last post. For plebs and starters, GRRM is THE gritty low fantasy epic writer.

>>7578506
Use of Weapons is probably his best, but there are several others that are particularly great. Consider Phlebas is frankly garbage compared to his later stuff and I would never recommend it as an intro book to anybody. Player of Games is solid. My favorites out of the rest would be Excession and Surface Detail. If you want to try something that isnt the Culture novels, Feersum Endjinn is fucking amazing.
>>
>>7578590
>For plebs and starters, GRRM is THE gritty low fantasy epic writer

Enlighten me, who else is a good gritty fantasy writer?
>>
Is the first law series worth getting into? After Rothfuss left such a shit taste in my mouth I'm going to be a bit more selective with my fantasy.
>>
>>7578614
Scott Lynch is prettygud.
>>
>>7578649
Hey, if you like feet, eating scat should be right up your alley .
>>
>>7560712
I can dig it.
>>
>>7578614

R Scott Bakker
>>
>>7578779
?
>>
>>7578649
I read about 100 pages of it yesterday at midnight and so far the only character who seems to be vaguely interesting and has dimensions is the Inquisitor/torturer guy.

The rest of the cast apparently consists of Guts complete with chronic hero syndrome, a teenager who is in lurve, Wizard Gandalf and a corrupt bureaucrat who does nothing except corrupt bureaucracy.

Please tell me this gets better.
>>
>>7578776
Scott Lynch is good. Except for the fact that the series is one inch from toppling into powerlevel bullshit.
>>
>>7567718
I found Never Let Me Go a little dry and a little too heavy on all the implied emotional suffering. Felt like the movie added a lot by making the whole affair more immediate and brutal.
>>
>>7578328
That was my main problem with the Malazan books. It's like Bleach or DBZ with "heh kid, you haven't even seen my final form yet" type of asspulls.
>>
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>>7578776
>>7578903
I don't understand how anyone with half a brain could find Lynch or Bakker anything but godawful.
>>
>>7579022
Dry I get, and I might even agree with, but I thought the amount of emotional suffering was done very well. Haven't sat through the entire film adaptation, but the parts I did see seemed to be too much of a page for page remake of the book, which could work in theory, just not in practice.
>>
>>7579064
What is cringey about that? I honestly believe The Name of the Wind is a crock of shit but I don't think there's nothing wrong with what he's saying there.
>>
>>7579064
Lynch is a fine and fun read but his books get a little worse over time.
The Name of the Wind is ok but not great. The Wise Man's Fear is objectively shit.
>>
>>7557542
FUCK. I'm still reading Sword of the Lictor and that went completely over my head.
>>
>>7578440
Is this series all that good? I have Red Rising sitting on the shelf across the room from me, but I've always been put off by the comparisons to it and the Hunger Games people like to make.
>>
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>>7553540
There was an attempt.
>>
>>7579202
Put a mask on it.
>>
Any thoughts on Moorcock's Corum series? Wanted to read something by him.
>>
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I came here to say I appreciate you guys making a general thread rather then having it all over the catalog.

Thanks
>>
I'll just ask here because I don't know where else to ask and I don't want to make a new thread:

How does one write a horror short story that is effective in creeping out people? I know books cannot do jump scares or any of that cheap stuff that movies, video games, or TV shows do, but I'd like to give a creepy atmosphere with good descriptions.

I've read almost all of Lovecraft if that'll help me, which I think it will.

P.S. If the story isn't complete garbage where would I look to get published? Not even joking, I have lofty goals.
>>
>>7579366
Watch old Japanese horror movies.
>>
>>7579271
Been going on for months, and it's more informative and fun than having a thread that like 4 persons would reply to before it 404.
>>
>>7579366
>>7579420
Expressively Kuroneko and Onibaba (medieval ghost horror), Jigoku (depictions of Buddhist Hell), and Kwaidan (horror anthology).
>>
>>7579430
Four is a lot. Two or one is the norm.
>>
>>7579366
My best guess would be to repulse the reader(although this might be seen as edgy), make very descriptive chapters about your fucked up world.

For people like us who started 4chan in /b/, and thus are desensitized, it wouldn't do shit, but for a facebook normie....
>>
>>7579447
That wouldn't be scary at all.
>>
>>7578921
It gets better. You learn some interesting shit about "Guts" and essentially what an asshole he actually is. Teenager gets great development. Glokta is great throughout.
>>
>>7579366
http://ttapress.com/blackstatic/guidelines/
http://betwixtmagazine.com/submissions/
Some of these >>7563201
>>
>>7579470
Sounds good.
>>
>>7579366
You can't really creep out adults, they've got to do it themselves. The Ring was so successful because it's so dependent on your imagination; unexplainable feeling you don't want to look over your shoulder into the corner of your room? Sadako pls go.
>>
Well I'm not really a horrorfag, i mostly read fantasy and some scifi now and again.

I read Clive Barker's Tortured Souls book and other than the sex scene, it didn't do much for me in the scare/repulsed department.
>>
>>7579499
For >>7579450
>>
So if you had to compile the best Fantasy authors of all time, who would you pick? Looking for personal recommendations. I've been out of the reading loop since I was a fucking kid. So far I have the best works from
>Jack Vance
>Gene Wolfe
>Zelazny
>Tolkien
>T.H. White
read Tolkien as a kid (like 7-12 years old) so I plan on rereading them now
lined up to read. Looking for comfy/complete/interesting worlds with great adventure stories told in them
currently reading "The Long Ships" and fucking loving it but it's just a historical fiction adventure novel, as excellent as it is
been playing The Witcher 3 and got over the initial love of ASOIAF and I have that sort of nostalgic longing for fantasy that I used to have as a kid
recommendations greatly appreciated!
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Dank or nah? And should I try this first or Hyperion? I'm a bit new to Science Fiction
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>>7579516
Worm Ourobouros.
>>
>>7579516
C.S. Lewis
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>>7579518
Shouldn't matter much.
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>>7579547
Which has more philosophical or intellectually provoking content, and which is more of a fun page turner? Unless one is both of those which I doubt
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>>7579555
Honestly Fire upon the Deep had both. Hyperion wins in the cool-imagery department by a scratch, and it feels like it should be the more intellectual one, but it's more style than substance. Also FutD doesn't have purple sex scenes or the old Star Trek "famous person you know, famous person you know, future person so you know they're famous too" thing.

Not saying Hyperion isn't good. Silenus' hyperspace house is worth the cost of admission, and the Ousters represent everything awesome about science fiction. It's just not as good as transhuman Nordic zombies, alien mailing lists discussing the extermination of the human race, and everything about the Tines. Composite beings formed from wolf packs. Nature of sentience. Neat stuff.
>>
Can anyone give me a recommendation for military space operas? I'd just google it, but I'm trying to find stuff without aliens, I just want human v human conflict.
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>>7570995
>Card
>Right wing
?
Did you even read the Ender saga past enders game? I actually had to stop reading speaker for the dead because Card went in the direction of "all humans hate Ender the Xenocide because he wiped out the poor alien species that tried to exterminate us".
>>
>>7579541
read that as a kid too, only going to read his christian stuff from now on
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>>7579580
I appreciate those thoughts, thanks
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>>7579177
I didn't read Red Rising for the exact same reason for like a year, but once you get into it, theres like zero comparison to hunger games.
Really fantastic series
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>>7579608
Lost Fleet is pretty solid on that front. I feel you on the human v human thing. One thing I'm looking for is fleet battles within the solar system, having it be this huge place with epic months-long flanking orbits, nations that control an entire planet being vast empires, that sort of thing.
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>>7579538
Thanks, this look really promising
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>>7579064
I think people say Lynch is better than he is, but he isn't bad. Republic of thieves was the only book in his series so far I didn't like.
>>
>>7579202
>A worthless abo
Lel
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>>7579516
Burroughs, Howard, Moorcock, and Peake are all pretty good.
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>>7570477
gen lib hasnt let people download books for the better part of a year, sen-pai
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>>7579260
Not as good as Elric, but still pretty decent.
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>>7579613
That sounds like he was laughing at what progressives already do desu
>>7579786
Recently read 3 elrics, after the first one it really goes downhill.
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>>7579893
>really goes downhill
Why do you say so? Well Chaos eating the world besides.
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>>7580079
Writing goes down, it's just bellow the level of the first one. Plot starts being overly complex, characters less defined, Elric duller... The whole thing is just much less entertaining.
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Why do you guys seem to dislike Robert Jordan and his Wheel of Time series? Granted I'm new to /lit/ and have only browsed a few of these fantasy threads. I'm only on the third book, but am enjoying the series quite a bit so far.
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>>7580399
New Thread
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>>7580332
Books 2-5ish are the best in the series so it's not surprising you're enjoying it so far. The plot comes to a standstill further down the the line. Also he is the worst writer of female characters in the genre.
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