And yet I still read all 150k words or whatever it is.
Not that I recommend it. I regret finishing it because I still think of shit from it and get that uncomfortable deep down feeling of dismay that a dude out there exists that has a brain that spawned these ideas at such length and yet managed to hook me into reading it all and fuck now I've got that inner sort of dread and disgust again fuck.
>>7547792 /v/ actually gets baited more by that than anything else because it implies that shitty game is good.
I don't even find edgy or transgressive fiction disturbing. It mostly feels to me tryhard and ridiculous, like these people are trying their hardest to capture a shock within people, even when you can find ISIS beheading videos at the flick of a wrist, which are infinitely more terrifying than any description of Patrick Bateman stabbing a kid at a zoo could ever be.
The most terrifying fiction, for me, is the absurdist kind. I find stuff like Thomas Ligotti's "The Last Feast of the Harlequin" where he stumbles across a society of silent clowns that transform into worms before his very eyes, to be absolutely terrifying, just given the absurdity and meaninglessness of the entire encounter.
Or this poem by Baudelaire -- "Spleen" -- which, in my opinion, is ultimately one of the most terrifying pieces of poetry ever written:
When the low, heavy sky weighs like a lid On the groaning spirit, victim of long ennui, And from the all-encircling horizon Spreads over us a day gloomier than the night;
When the earth is changed into a humid dungeon, In which Hope like a bat Goes beating the walls with her timid wings And knocking her head against the rotten ceiling;
When the rain stretching out its endless train Imitates the bars of a vast prison And a silent horde of loathsome spiders Comes to spin their webs in the depths of our brains,
All at once the bells leap with rage And hurl a frightful roar at heaven, Even as wandering spirits with no country Burst into a stubborn, whimpering cry.
— And without drums or music, long hearses Pass by slowly in my soul; Hope, vanquished, Weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish On my bowed skull plants her black flag.
These are the types of things that terrify me: the absurdist, the hopeless, the Satanic; and if I could get some recommendations of writers that match these descriptions, I would be very grateful.
>>7547792 Would agree with American Psycho; wasn't expecting to read about a decapitated head being filled with cum while the eyes are gouged. I think Ellis must be one of those people who gets his kicks from BestGore.
I'm reading a history book about the Second World War. It's turned to the section about Japanese war crimes and their treatment of civilians. Never before have I had to actually put down a book to collect my repulsion and rage and calm down. The chapter ended with "There were many other scenes described to the War Crimes Tribunal - and not denied by the perpetrators - that are simply too disgusting to recount here."
Google 'Unit 731', 'The Rape of Nanking' or just the treatment of any captured villages.
I guess it's so much worse then other books I've read such as American Psycho because it actually happened
>>7551348 An asshole on Cracked who wrote an article about how video games are superior to any other art form. In the comment section I objected to video games being considered an art form in the first place, and I was downvoted to oblivion. That's all you need to know about Cracked.
>>7551916 (i'm not that anon) it's a very debatable thing that pends on the definiton of art. The term itself originated as one of the characteristics of good architecture in Rome, it was turned by Ficino and the neoplatonics into an autonomous thing, craftmanship that results in an unique object. With the enlightenment this got expanded, it was art if it was unique and could be recieved in a spiritual level. Of course, that's a strange definition since it included gardens but not teapots, because the first is unique and reflects the spirit of the owner while the second one is a piece in a set. Later, by the hand of Heidegger, it was perfected into the idea that a work of art is anything that presents a tiny part of an expansive world, something that makes the spectator expand their understanding, a solid piece of philosohpy, but has no other use besides it. The idea is that useful items melt into their use, and they are the best when you don't think about them, while art is entirely to think about it. So if you get some use from it it can't be art. Now, the idea is that something made to be played, i.e. used, can't be art. It's a tool for enjoyment. But that's a something that should be considered in a case by case basis anyway. Also, art was something you boguth and resold to win money since before it's independecy was declared. So there was a use, maybe it was abstract and unrelated to each piece, but it was a use.
So yeah, what is art is a pretty tough subject. I could expand on the differences between aesthetic object and art, or popular art vs art, but I guess I would be getting out of topic with that.
It's more of what you need to know about cretins that call themselves "gamers." They're just children playing with toys, yet they want their toys to be taken seriously. It'd be life if they were playing with Star Wars action figures and making "psssshhhhhh poot poot" noises and when someone walked in, they said "DO NOT DO ANYTHING I AM MAKING ART."
You would immediately close the door or just point and laugh.
>>7551376 >I guess it's worse because it actually happened protip: history books are mostly fabrications, particular selections of data with a context created to produce the effect the author wants the same way you'd do with a fictional story. Not defending the jap leaders, what they did in china was horrible and to this day they keep pretending it never happened, just saying that history books aren't 100% truth and much less objective.
I'm rarely disturbed by the physical stuff; I attribute that to early exposure to ero-guro, vore, et c. thanks to the internet. What really gets me is a sort of existential dread, the evidence of an entity out there, capable of fucking with and manipulating my life like it's nothing. A sort of Fear of God, if you would.
To cite examples: Babies getting squashed in Blood Meridian didn't bother me; what did was the implication that the Judge was something McCarthy had to struggle with and I knew already. In Gravity's Rainbow, the shit eating or the debauchery of the rich didn't get to me and the graphic castration barely did; but Pynchon's meditations on technology, and how it aligns with the rest of our thinking, make me shit my pants whenever I give them some thought.
>>7552054 >It'd be life if they were playing with Star Wars action figures and making "psssshhhhhh poot poot" noises and when someone walked in, they said "DO NOT DO ANYTHING I AM MAKING ART."
If they wrote out what they were going to do first would it be art? if they recorded it would it be art? Besides for quality, I can't see how it is any different from film or stage plays in any regard.
>>7553081 It would be puppetry, so it depends. It could be. The thing is that videogames don't have a real variety of things to fo when you play, you can use the engine or assets to create new stuff but then you're just plagiarizing content to do 3D animation.
>>7553203 If they are using molds they are just workers for some company with a very intriguing business model.
>>7552007 Is something being played really a use in itself though? For example with books/literature there is an interactive aspect, turning the pages or, on an e-book, clicking through.
I honestly don't care much about the definition of art though. I appreciate things for the craftsmanship that went into them, and the (sometimes) philosophical nugget from the object, whether or not I use them everyday.
>>7553502 >>7553514 Yeah, but the question was playing with toys as art. The question of "art vidja art" is much more complex. As I mentioned before, being something made intentionally to entertain and give a very specific response makes it hard to consider art in a classical european sense. Still, if a song was made to take crops more efficiently (i.e. a tool to improve productivity) would have the same problem, or if the intention is to spread propaganda, aren't those particular and industrial reassons to make a piece? That wouldn't be art, but if art is used to make money and create a market, that's also a particular use. It's a heavy topic.
It's about two young adults. One who just got out of jail for murdering a bunch of girls, as well as his mother. He has a perverse fascination for women with long brown hair because his mother had that sort of hair and he'd lay in bed with her and have her hair draped over his face.
The other one is a very disturbed teenage girl who sees a rockstar on TV with a tooth missing. She starts fantasizing about kissing him and running her tongue through the gap in his tooth. She runs away from home to find him and do this. As soon as she does it, she's bored again and she finds the murderer boy somehow and then they fall in love.
>>7547812 >>7551670 Yeah, are you talking about the chapter from V.? If so, I'm very curious as to why you found it disturbing. It was one of the most fascinating and nuanced psychological portraits I've ever read.
>video games are superior to any other art form >video games shouldn't be considered an art form in the first place
Both of these conclusions are terrible and arrogant. You completely deserved the derision you got. The guy who wrote that article is a fuckhead, but you're just as bad because you're lowering yourself to his level by sneeringly declaring whole mediums completely worthless.
>>7549549 The Morgue cycle by Gottfried Benn might work for you.
A drowned beer-hauler was heaved onto the slab. Someone had wedged a lavender aster between his teeth. As I reached through the chest under the skin with a long knife to cut out the tongue and palate I must have bumped the flower, for it slid into the brain lying alongside. I packed it into the chest cavity with the sawdust as we sewed up. Drink your fill in that vase! Rest in peace, little aster!
>>7547773 Try High Life by Stokoe. Cows gets more pub, but I found that to be just disgusting; kind of like a more literary less humorous version of Edward Lee . High Life was profoundly disturbing in myriad ways.
Also liked The Wasp Factory. I thought it was a very good novel, easily 8/10. I didn't find it terribly disturbing, but most people seem to. Worth a read either way.
You can also check out some of Jack Ketchum's work. The movie adaptation of The Girl Next Door is up on jewtube, and it's very faithful to the source material. Stranglehold had probably the most disturbing final passage of anything I've ever read.
One last recommendation is a book called The Summer I Died. Definitely one of the best horror novels in recent memory. The sequel is cheesy as fuck though.
Also, didn't mean to shit on Ed Lee. Header 2 is probably the funniest book I've ever read. Check it out, friendo.
This image is cringy as fuck, but I think dismissing the entire medium of video games as not artistic is a bit narrow-minded. The problem is that 99.9% of games aren't going for "art" and 99.9% of the ones that ARE going for some sort of deeper meaning or themes are pretentious schlock that usually strip the "game" portion down to barebones and add some water-thin theme to seem like they have a message. I think if a game is to be art, it has to make good use of the medium while presenting its themes. The usual candidates people name, MGS2, Shadow of the Colossus, Silent Hill 1/2/3, and Spec Ops are fairly good and I think they're almost there, but at the same time I wouldn't really compare them to high literature.
Rapey imagery like Alien, and a few others I forget (i remember one being more recent, with a young girl slowly being seduced to be the mate of an underground alien colony). The idea of being the host to some disgusting alien parasite makes me feel sick.
>>7556378 Have you read that Alien comic book about the guy who was kidnapped by (red?) xenomorphs and had to mate with his mother so they could study him? And she was already undergoing the process of turning into an egg (I think the comic book was released shortly after the second movie, and they used the idea from the alternative ending of Nostromo). Pretty fucked up.
>>7556339 They present high-points of the medium, but pale in comparison to high-points of other mediums. At the same time - cinema is over a hundred years old, literature is several millenia old, so...
>>7555649 Neckbeards always assume you're dismissing games by saying they're not art and don't even consider the fact that vidya is very different from any other medium and may not fall under the given person's (reasonable) definition.
Is the game of Chess art? Not the pieces or the board, but the actual game being played. Is it art?
There ARE video games that I would consider art, but they have all been released independently, for free, online, with no plans of financial gain -- the only purpose being to fulfill the creative vision of the developer. Similarly, good literature (art) is made for the sake of being MADE foremost, and is then commercialized later on.
>>7556454 Also consider videogames haven't even finished developping materially, every generation has been different from the last. AND that "videogames" are immenselly diverse in comparison to other media, since the way one plays the game can be completely different from one genre to another (i.e. they aren't genres at all in the traditional sense). Just now we're seeing some big author names and technology has allowed an independent scene to emerge.
And the people who complain about commercialism probably also ignore writing was created with accountability lists in mind, not the expression of the human condition.
>>7549576 Not related to the topic but may as well ask whilst you're talking about it: should I continue where I left off in American Psycho even though I last read it a few months ago? I'm like a third of the way through and, if I'm remembering correctly, he hasn't done anything too psychotic yet, there have just been a load of indication that he's a nutcase. I don't really wanna start from the beginning (cba for those long product-based passages) but do you think it's best to?
>>7559683 There is a structure and aesthetic to the code that the user never encounters. Really videogames are like art and architecture combined. The art being the user experience and the architecture being the code.
>>7547773 the 120 days of Sodom by Sade some extracts from the Dutroux (belgian pedo) files historical books about genocides stories of junkies and crackheads on forums some paranoiac SHIT about HIDDEN THINGS which are secret!!! (always written like THIS) a weird book about badass SS adventures in the East front torture process from the CIA and so on
>>7562547 It's high school-tier philosophy. Anyone who knows anything would have understood the arguments behind antinatalism and pessimism long before opening this book. Ligotti doesn't present anything particularly new.
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