"How good could it be?" I thought, regarding the burgundy liquid carefully. Across the table from me, the twisted old man smiled slyly.
"Please, sir, try." he whispered, his hushed voice the sound of dry leaves blown over a roughly cobbled street. "Thou shall find it more than lives up to thy expectations, I am sure."
I nodded at him and lifted the crystal goblet into the air, watching the light play through the crimson liquor. I'd come a long way for this drink... searched long and hard for this old man... and I'd be damned to let anything rush me, now. The moment was to be savored.
I raised the glass to my lips, inhaling the stuff's aroma. The bouquet was light, sweet, intoxicating... almost dizzyingly so. I'd tried countless drinks... written tomes about them, their flavors and smells, means of manufacture, in my journeys across the Planes. But this... this stuff was supposed to be legendary. No living man I'd found or heard of had tried the stuff. The stories were ridiculous - nothing could taste quite so good - but if there were the slightest bit of truth to them, this would be some fine liquor indeed.
At last, I drunk of the goblet, a cautious sip...
Incredible! Indescribable! As the flavor washed over my palette, I fought the urge to shudder with delight. Nothing... *nothing* I had tried in all my long years had tasted quite like this. I looked up at the old man, startled to find my glass empty - I had drained it all in a single draught. I wiped my eyes with the back of my hand, not entirely sure when I had begun to cry.
"Tears of joy, eh?" The old man laughed softly. "Quite pleasing to the tongue, is it not? Wouldst thou like some more, perchance?" He smiled at me once more.
"Yes... yes, if I might..."
"Surely." he replied, refilling my glass. Try as I might, I could not resist downing it in a single gulp. I thrust my finger into the goblet in an attempt to find some last, hidden drop of the stuff. Several times more did he fill the goblet, and each time I gulped the stuff down as a starving man would devour a feast, unable to control myself, to deny myself another exquisite taste of it.
"A drink such as this... a man wouldst do anything for it, no?"
I nodded without hesitation. "Yes, a man would..." Looking at him, his sly smile suddenly took on a whole new meaning. A sense of horror began to creep over me, even as I began to yearn painfully for more of the blood-red liquor...
"Yes, yes..." The old man grinned, his yellow eyes gleaming. "A man *wouldst* do anything, in the *thrall* of such a drink... even the most terrible, the most heinous of deeds... as thou shall see, my newest servant."
>his hushed voice the sound of dry leaves blown over a roughly cobbled street.
this isn't how you write. this is how someone who likes dungeons and dragons imagines you write. dropped.
Sorry but it's not even close to being as good as any of these books, not even the bad ones
That's the bad list mate. The only books on there that are better than PS:T are Lolita and Dorian Grey. You really gotta step up your taste if you want to ever get anywhere in life, lmao
he never said that, he said that it sounds like someone mimicking how they'd imagine a classic book would be like when most of their reading is extremely technical and not based on descriptions.
Playing through it now, had to download the hd/widescreen fixes so it looks really good but gameplay wise its just average but holy fuck that writing...
I was going to ask if anyone knew of a forum or blog that discussed the philosophies featured in the game? Like how all the different cliques have a real world philosophical equivalent.
How awesome is it though i cant even handle, that planeswalker in the burning corpse? Its like bringing all the ideas and theories we read about in philo and lit and gives them a physical form that we have to confront in life.
Reminder that this is the ABSOLUTE HEIGHT of writing in video games. This is their Citizen Kane, this is their Moby Dick, this is their Gravity's Rainbow.
Yet transferred over to any other medium its mid to bottom tier sci fi.
It's a throw-away filler piece. That's akin to picking out one of the shittiest filler parts of Moby-Dick and going "AYY THIS IS THE PEAK OF WRITING IN LITERATURE"
Also, lmao at "their". Who is the "they"? Anyone can enjoy both vidya and literature, unless they're mentally hindered.
they = /v/ and people who self identify as gamers.
Video games can be wonderful, but as a storytelling medium with writing they are shackled by "writing teams" and the profit motive. And yeah, an argument can be made that Moby Dick is the greatest work of literature or writing in English. The same cannot be said for Planescape, which holds a comparable place in the critique of both mediums.
It's a classic crpg point and click with pausible real time combat, the gameplays functional. The writing though... One of the earliest side quests has you etching the name of a city into a monument so a group of people will stop eternally crying for their fallen city.
>reminder that fighting games are the peak of video games qua medium because they are the best at what games are for
>reminder that roleplaying games are the WORST video games because they are the WORST at what video games are for, while being a shoddy imitation of other media such as film and literature
But there's not a cohesive group called "gamers" who identify this game as their "Citizen Kane" or "Moby Dick". You are using fallacies to insult video games and those who play them.
you're wrong. it doesn't exist. stories aren't interactive. games are. stories are a one way street, an outflow from the speaker to the listener. if you want to interact with a story you either read it and think about it, or you write about it, but those things require much more work than playing a game.
there's nothing fallacious about insulting people who play video games. a video game is a lamentable waste of time and indicative of poor character, a good tool for identifying the willful chaff of humanity.
You're just one of the many who disregards media just because it's the newest one.
Socrates believed the written word would bring about the decay of civilization, and you're just as wrong in your reasoning.
stories have existed in the form i described since they have existed. games have existed for most of their history without a huge emphasis on story—this latter is a recent development of the late 20th century with the movement of games to digital formats. so I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you. games aren't meant to be plot based, stories aren't meant to be interactive. trying to put them together results in hackneyed deer droppings like the OP. now kindly fuck off, this board is about literature.
search your feelings, you know it to be true.
see above. and actually, socrates was right, insofar as his own civilization is concerned.
I don't play much anymore because I work 9-5 and read and have other hobbies, but fighting games are totally the best games.
Best fighting games:
Marvel Vs. Capcom 2
Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo
Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike
King of Fighters '98
Capcom Vs. Snk 2
Arcana Heart 3
i'm not going to address you, because i've already told you where the burden of proof lies.
video game fags' only argument is always "it COULD be better!" and yet it never is! not a single example has been provided by either of you of good story telling in a game. why is that? i'll tell you: video games are games. they are for testing a skill, like chess or go. play fighting games, play mobas, play fucking world of warcraft if grinding is the skill you want to test, but do not try to tell me or anyone that the schlock in the op is "good story telling" and expect to be taken seriously. like i said in my first post in this thread, that isn't good writing. it's what a gamer imagines good writers write.
but actually, you know what? i'm not satisfied. the most disappointing game of 2015 was unquestionably fallout 4. in fact bethesda's entire career post-morrowind has been one failure after the other. as the games got progressively more game-like, more arcadey, more like shooters and less like "role playing," the writing got shittier, they got less interactive, the worlds the characters inhabited and the characters themselves got flatter. compare this to morrowind itself: clunky in every game-related aspect imaginable. horrible animations, snail paced combat, arcane hotkey system... it plays terribly, and yet is the most immersive world bethesda has churned out. in video games i'm afraid you cannot have your cake and it eat too. stories are not interactive.
and not for nothing, have you ever, EVER ONCE read good writing in a CYOA? fuck.
it's that it's trying so hard to be evocative that only someone (like a gamer) who has never read a line of literature could possibly be impressed by it. it's a persons voice, for fucks sake, not our first view of a ghost town. if the person's voice is dry, just say its fucking dry. bone-dry if you're feeling fanciful.
Anon, vidya, unlike books or movies, aren't a medium whera a single person can have complete agency over the end product in the current state of the industry, and this brings forth very cliche results.
This, nevertheless doesn't deny the underlying potential of the medium. The fact that is not being tapped, while sad, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
If hollywood fully took over to make only pop corn films would't mean film as a medium would lose its potential to make works of art.
Why 2 Turbo over Alpha 3 for a SF that isnt 3rd Strike? I know 2T made the genre what it is today, and as popuar as it is, but it just doesnt really stack up if you didnt play it in the glory days. But capcom doesnt even make the best fighting games. You missed out on the godliest ones, besides KOF98
>Samsho (a tossup between a few)
step up nigga
The gameplay is standard D&D, but if your CHA and WIS are high enough, you can talk your way through the game bar one or two mandatory fights.
As most old-school games, it does have some parts where you honestly have no idea how to progress further, but that is by design choice of the time.
I know that you're undoubtedly going to laugh me out of the room for even mentioning it, but interactivity, specifically the kind you would find in a visual novel, allows for some truly unique and amazing plot devices while still being able to tell a linear story, with no added downsides. An interactive format provides a platform for stories that can branch and be explored (IE what if character X didn't die on page 50), and also carries the major but little appreciated benefit of there being no physical tells as to the length of the work (page count and such). It is impossible to deny the fact that interactive media has a greater potential for storytelling, no matter what state the current body of work is in, and doing so only cheapens your argument.
There are many problems facing the current state of plot in games, such as the too-many-cooks issue you pointed out, but as time goes by and the gaming generations begin to reach their later years, some sort of masterwork or another is inevitable, even if it does come from some wizened fuck coding in his basement.
Video games can't be compared to other mediums as they are a mixture of more of them. You have writing, music, cinematography and other shit mixed.
Of course, the more something encapsulates, the less it can be deep in all of the things it encapsulates. Moby Dick is better written than Planescape: Torment, but it lacks the atmosphere, the music, the pictures (you make all these up in your head). Planescape: Torment is unique when all of its elements come together. Plus, the story is great, and it's not a cheat sci-fi. It encapsulates many philosophies and has lots of interesting subplots, it's an unique experience not only in the video game medium but in any medium in general.
I don't even care if anyone makes fun of me, just stating it how it is. Just because there's a lot of infantile people when it comes to gaming doesn't mean every game is shit or subpar. It would be like judging literature based on Harry Potter fans. If anyone who is reading this hates video games or thinks they are simple, give them another try. If you dig you can find a lot of stuff that's worth your time, just like with any medium. From more mainstream picks which concentrate on gameplay the most (Super Metroid, Link to the Past), to artistic achievements such as Ico and Planescape: Torment.
lol what the shit are you talking about
role playing games(aka games where you can act on and change the story) are an end point of video games, the hypothetical perfect game would always be a RPG because interactivity is the essence of video games themselves
Alpha 3 is not as strategic or fast paced as ST
KoF2k2 and 13 have a bunch of lame characters and way too long combos
I'll give you the rest, especially Garou, that is an underrated game for sure.
We're living in the age of hypertext now. There's nothing to be gained from this overly-traditional, myopic view of media. Interactive reading environments hold tremendous potential and carry deep narratological implications. Pale Fire and Ulysses are good examples of proto-hypertextual works. Do you think those are good or shitty? Think about similar works able to be offered in a more natural medium.
>Pale Fire and Ulysses are good examples of proto-hypertextual works
I have played video games for many years, enough that it has at times been a vice. right now I am sinking tons of time into hardcore Path of Exile.
It is the basest of all mediums of art, mostly because you always must have the profit motive in mind. You cannot be a starving genius and make a video game, you are always subject to the necessity of funding and outside talent, barring individuals like the creator of dwarf fortress (interesting in that it forces the user to create the story from randomizing aspects of the game)
And the storytelling is ALWAYS second tier. Planescape is a great videogame, storytelling wise. It is a low-tier pulp sci-fi novel out of thousands in a borders as a novel.
your argument is basically monkeys with typewriters. you remind me of people who still think a communist revolution is inevitable. "okay, this one failed," they say of either final fantasy 13 or soviet russia, "but we'll get it right next time!" i wonder how many times we'll get it wrong before we realize skill based competitive games are just what the media does best. i'm not saying this is somehow "lower" than literature—personally i get such a rush out of making a godly play in dota 2 that the entire format is redeemed. games should focus on producing that rush, on stratifying their skill curve, on producing fierce competition based in tactical application of the rules enforced, not on single-player narratives that movies and literature always do better. i'll concede your point about interactivity opening forking paths to the story as a possible way to expand, but i still deny that video games are the best place to experiment with this. it detracts from what they are best at.
RPG stories and mechanics muddy the water. the true potential of video games lay in the fast paced, skill-centric experience of knowing the mechanics and being able to exploit them better than your opponent. i don't understand why the rpg faggots are so intent on having stories in their game when other media always do this better. the only thing video games can do which a book or a movie can't is have two human beings be pitted against each other in competition. this is the end of the form, not prosthetic attachment of faux-profound narrativity. see >>7548712
Bloodborne and souls games are interesting because the story is built with environment and item descriptions and evasive notes. It isnt some third rate team of failed fantasy writers churning out schlock, it relies on the artists and users ability to build the story from visual cues.
You want mastery in vidya story telling, that is where it will come from. Not from Bethesda or the remnants of black isle and old bioware.
yeah, i'll actually agree to that, too. this is story telling done in a way that only a video game can. why waste time with narratives or narrative styles that have already been done to death in other media, and have already been achieved
your only possible reason for thinking is that you're bad at them, in which case, lol scrub, or that you think narratives are somehow better for games, in which case, we fundamentally disagree and will just be talking past each other from here on out. but i still submit that only a game can create a skill based competitive environment, and as such games as a whole benefit when the focus is on rarefying that experience.
I would return to your point about Fallout 4. If it was a nameless protagonist, or if he just started in a hut with a few mudfruits with no back story, and just traveled through the wasteland as an outsider or marauder watching others lives and occasionally making your presence known in THEIR lives, it would have been far better than the "main storyline"
>your only possible reason for thinking is that you're bad at them
>you can only disagree with me when you are wrong
woah, top level argumentation there. clearly vidja made you an empathic and profound person with great rationality
>uses "limited" twice in two consecutive sentences
literally try reading the second part of that sentence. and not for nothing, decreeing "lowest of the low" isn't exactly ph.d. level scholarship. from these two failings on your part, i'm forced to conclude that you're chaff, totally expendable to the human cause. back to /v/ now, profligate.
i agree, but video games will never do this, because people want to be the hero and video games bow to the market unlike any other medium must.
Nabokov does this sort of thing all the time, though.
Fair enough if you don't like it but personally I think it's an effective way of detailing how the voice sounds without being simplistic about it.
The point is rather that "the sound of dry leaves blown over a roughly cobbled street" isn't evocative of a voice AT ALL
Not even in the way of it not being evocative of a voice
And it's constructed in the very same specific way all these meaningless forced metaphors are
That's why it's bad, and stereotypically so
it also absolutely ruins the pacing, which is terrible throughout the piece, but that line is where it nosedives.
"his voice like dry leaves" would be superior, but the piece as a whole is beyond salvation, to the bin with it.
>Socrates believed the written word would bring about the decay of civilization...
Or, he said that the written word allows for information to be distributed beyond those who are able to receive it, and allows for people to memorize someone else's (written) reasons rather than coming up with their own. Considering how little you've understood that section of the Phaedrus, I'd say he was right.
As no one seems to know what the fuck they are talking about concerning interactive ficiton, which is what this thread has become, here is a book by Chris Crawford, one of the pioneers of the 80's
There are several interviews, just youtube him
Here is an hour lecture by him, I haven't watched it yet, but I have been reading his book.
Here is a wikipedia article containing ancient examples of egordic literature.
Can I also point out that stories are linear, but literature doesn't have to be. Poetry is literature, and good luck defining that.
Ulysses isn't hypertextual at all, you haven't even read the book. Pale Fire isn't that good of a book, and that sort of sixties/seventies page-flip gimmick is essentially dead.
No, humans are linear thinkers and with few exceptions most great works being written even today are linear. Get out of here with your freshmanish formalism bullshit.
Didn't mean to post yet
Also the crossover of video games and interactive literature is a little blurred, game designers haven't innovated in the area is the main takeaway if my research. Here's an interview about the kind of interactive fiction Crawford believes to have potential. The interesting thing is that the barrier of interactive storytelling is technical more than artistic.
>CC: It's a story you get to participate in as the protagonist. You're the hero...and you let the story go. It's not at all like a regular story. It's not as if you're just following the footsteps of the hero in a standard movie. Interactive storytelling has a more meandering feel to it. You don't charge down a plot line towards the end, you meander through a social environment. The key thing is that it's about people, not things. Social interaction, not mechanical interaction. The primary thing you do an interactive storytelling is talk to other people. What a concept! Most gamers react to that concept with some disdain: “all you do is sit around and talk? That’s no fun,” and it isn’t any fun for many gamers. But that's the kind of thing that most people spend most of their time doing.
Where do "Choose Your Own Adventure" books fall under?
I believe they fall into the category of interactive fiction. They were created in 1970 jat the same time the first was being created on a computer
Video games started out as interactive literature, that's interesting isn't it?
>RPG stories and mechanics muddy the water. the true potential of video games lay in the fast paced, skill-centric experience of knowing the mechanics and being able to exploit them better than your opponent. i don't understand why the rpg faggots are so intent on having stories in their game when other media always do this better. the only thing video games can do which a book or a movie can't is have two human beings be pitted against each other in competition. this is the end of the form, not prosthetic attachment of faux-profound narrativity. see >>7548712
its not even a question of story
"interactive storytelling" is just a matter of good mechanics
because the story is just a type of event in the game world
and making the game world more complex is more fun
doesn't matter if it's fighting games with deeper attack systems or singleplayer games where the game adapts to your interactions with NPCs or a better physics engine
not to mention that there's no real distinction between multiplayer and singleplayer challenges
not to mention that sports or social matters are better for competition anyway
not to mention that dota 2 is a trashy game
>I need other people to think for me because it's scary being alone
Think for a moment about the potential for interactivity, then think about how everyone in this thread is either overlooking or dodging the conceit that makes all of your talking past each other resemble an argument. Stories exist for a reason, but no one is saying what or why. Stories are alive when you spin the top, and it feels good to have spun the top because it takes mental effort that video games don't seem to require. But why do you make a story live? To live vicariously? To compose essays in your head? To belong to a time and place? Self-improvement or self-inflation?
VG and Lit are both interactive but they are worlds apart in terms of efficacy and aims. If you think about interactivity for a moment an author of literature is at the most extreme disadvantage. S/he must anticipate (which many do to incredible effect), whereas to players sitting next to each other can provide a much more intimate, personalized interaction. A human brain opposing you will adapt on the fly. Two competitors well-versed in their medium can spontaneously compose entirely novel, completely brilliant interactions. Literature does this in a completely different way, but the idea is still to know and be known.
An elderly man was sitting alone on a dark path, right? He wasn't certain of which direction to go, and he'd forgotten both where he was traveling to and who he was. He'd sat down for a moment to rest his weary legs, and suddenly looked up to see an elderly woman before him. She grinned toothlessly and with a cackle, spoke: 'Now your *third* wish. What will it be?'
'Third wish?' The man was baffled. 'How can it be a third wish if I haven't had a first and second wish?'
'You've had two wishes already,' the hag said, 'but your second wish was for me to return everything to the way it was before you had made your first wish. That's why you remember nothing; because everything is the way it was before you made any wishes.' She cackled at the poor berk. 'So it is that you have one wish left.'
'All right,' said the man, 'I don't believe this, but there's no harm in wishing. I wish to know who I am.'
'Funny,' said the old woman as she granted his wish and disappeared forever. 'That was your first wish.'
how come you guys praise the 'writing' on this shit this is literally fanfic tier verbiage
>"How good could it be?" I thought, regarding the burgundy liquid carefully
>his hushed voice the sound of dry leaves blown over a roughly cobbled street
>watching the light play through the crimson liquor.
>I'd come a long way for this drink... searched long and hard for this old man... and I'd be damned to let anything rush me, now.
The best literary work written in second person ever produced.
btw, while the actual writing/prose itself isn't very good (translated from nips), the plot, narrative, and symbolism of this game surpasses everything on that starter kit listed above
PLANESCAPE:TORMENT BEST GAME I EVER PLAYED
I feel sorry for those who did not get to play the game when it was current. Though it is still good it is no longer in the style of what is popular and so some may find the gameplay itself off-putting. But in it's heyday... A masterpiece.
Yup. They aren't as bad as /tv/ or /mu/ though. Those kids literally pat each other on the back for watching/listening to "difficult" passive entertainment. As if it's ever somehow difficult to have a movie shown to your face, lol.
>infinity engine games are some kind of esoteric cubist puzzled to tease the meaning out of.
The gameplay and plot was completely linear, and if you played with high int and wis and cha you cracked the game in half. I'd have more respect if you faggots posted screenshots of low int Melee playthroughs, but don't pretend it requires anymore effort to get through than your standard final fantasy.
Not even, reading through Mason Dixon requires 5000x the effort to understand or get through. If the text was presented in novel format it would pale compared to malazan, which is meh tier genre fiction.
>Video games can't be compared to other mediums as they are a mixture of more of them
Film is a mixture of other existing arts, yet we compare things to it daily. Video games really have no excuse for being as artistically undeveloped as they are.
What about Ico or Shadow of the Collosus?
Most people here seem to think that the only valuable artistic merit of a game is the writing or storytelling, while you don't take into account the music or the cinematography of the game. Hell, even the whole technologic and programming aspect should be taken into consideration, the ammount of programming 'magic' that has been put into some games is worth noting (the vector calculation of quake comes to mind). What about modeling too? Some movies get Oscar prizes for their special effects, can that be comparable to the whole modeling and rendering aspect of games?
My point is: Games have to take into account things from MANY other mediums, and they can be as artistic as a movie. Now, no one tries to compare the storytelling or dialogue of a movie to a book because it's obvious it will fall short, but the whole cinematography and musical aspect is what makes it artistic. Bladerunner has a beautiful and cathartic ending scene that can't exactly be compared to the book.
Literature struggles with hard philosophical concepts too, but no one (with a respectable opinion) is going full retard saying that Literature is for stupid people that can't get into Kant or Hegel or Wittgenstein. You just assume that Literature has to give something away in order to show it's strenght (beautiful prose).
Now, to come back to games: Ico shows how a game can be as minimalistic as it possibly can to tell an adventure, with beautiful scenery, music and a great graphical achievement for it's time. It isn't as good as Ulysses, but it deserves the title of art.
>female:bestiality female:multiple_penises female:loli female:pregnant female:scat female:parasite female:eggs male:gender_bender female:urethra_insertion male:pegging
Why are you posting a reaction image? I thought /lit/ was supposed to be eloquent.
it's almost as though you don't read books
>if you played with high int and wis and cha you cracked the game in half.
thus the game contains its own autocritique: intelligent people do not find it confounding, impressive, or difficult
Agreed. I just replayed DS1 which is the only one I really like and the atmosphere is amazing.
It plays to the strengths of what a videogame can do. And the dialogue, while it isn't god tier, is used in just the right amount and always hints at something deeper in the world. Nobody ever says anything "videogamey"
Read this fragment:
"...watching the light play through the crimson liquor".
This suggests that the once burgundy drink now appears crimson because of the light.
I recommend you don't resort to nitpicking to criticize writing. It's frowned upon and makes you appear uneducated and insecure.
It's still a new medium. Besides, I don't see videogames ever being equal to film as a traditional art, largely because the interaction always detracts from the elements that are considered to be 'artistic'. Videogames trying to be art by emulating existing art forms is the worst thing to happen to the medium
Even if you merge every element of a game into a cohesive whole, and it's been done in quite a few great games, they still rely on gameplay as the main element. If you focus on the interaction then people won't call it art because it's usually agreed that gameplay, no matter how finely tuned and brilliantly designed, can't be art.
I wouldn't be surprised if people eventually do start considering gameplay as a form of art in the future as every living generation grows up with games. There is something to be said for the simple joy found in traversing levels like those in Mario Galaxy, or the overly sexualised feminine touch to every single action in Bayonetta, or the sense of doom that pervades the narrative and every repeated cycle in Majora's Mask.
>It's still a new medium. Besides, I don't see film ever being equal to literature as a traditional art, largely because the vidual always detracts from the elements that are considered to be 'artistic'. Films trying to be art by emulating existing art forms is the worst thing to happen to the medium
>Even if you merge every element of a film into a cohesive whole, and it's been done in quite a few great films, they still rely on cinematography as the main element. If you focus on the visual then people won't call it art because it's usually agreed that cinematography, no matter how finely tuned and brilliantly designed, can't be art.
You don't define a video game by its writing but by its gameplay.
It's fundamentally different then books, and probably not as high a form of entertainment, however they're still addicting as fuck.