How can I accept ftms?
>know a ftm irl
>not on mones, just uses binder from time to time
>told me about this guy he's dating
>explains the guy claims he's not gay, but expresses interest in my friend
>ftm friend says "he" caught the guy making out with another
>ftm questions guy
>guy says he might have some interest in dudes and is willing to expirement
>ftm friend and guy are going on a date soon, "he's" worried if the guy will be weird about the date
>to add my friend feels worried about leaving the house in boy clothes
I know there are similarities between this and mtfs (myself being one). But the mental illness part of the trans thing shows brightest with ftms in my experience.
Is this a sign that transitioning is crazy town? or maybe ... i don't fucking know guys
why do i permit mtf but not ftm, and i shit talk my trans feelings 24/7 jokingly, out and proud too.
I can't see anything in your greentext that seems particularly wrong or strange, besides the couple times you put quotations around the word he.
Listen, how are we, or anyone for that matter, supposed to take you and your gender issues seriously if you can't even empathize enough to understand and accept your friend who is also transgender? You can't even use his preferred pronouns without being sarcastic.
You've heard of the saying about throwing rocks and living in glass houses right?
It wasn't sarcasm but indicators to keep him separate from the potential bf. As proof there are no quotations till I begin juggling them both.
Women have looser gender barriers than men, and aside from his binder he just comes off as a tomboy. Why is the guy afraid? Technically it'll be a straight date, resemblance wise.
Why be afraid to leave the house in boy clothes?
This is extremely acceptable for women and is a top fashion trend.
I guess I'm saying that in contrast with men, transitioning is much less drastic and anti-climactic for women to the point where even I don't get it..
I'm a little in denial of my own feelings, and I think experiences like these are only adding to the fire.
I can't exactly speak for your friend, I can only make assumptions based on the info you've provided.
If you are sincerely curious about why he is afraid leaving the house in boys cloths you should try asking him. There could be any number of reasons. He could be self conscience of how he looks in them, maybe he feels like he doesn't resemble a man enough to wear them and doesn't want to be associated as a butch woman in much the same way an early transitioning MtF doesn't want to be seen as a transvestite or gay male cross-dresser. He might still be getting over being relatively closeted and isn't ready to be so out in the open about his gender identity yet. He might be worried about whether the guy he's interested in will see him differently if he dressed in male cloths or maybe he doesn't want to put the guy in an awkward position and feels he is not doing it for his sake.
I don't think you are really going to know for sure unless you ask. If you truly consider yourself a friend of his though, you should try your hardest to respect him and how he chooses to present himself, especially if you want the same treatment in return for your gender dysphoria.
Da fuck mate? Transitioning is scary no matter what you're transitioning from or to. Just because it's "acceptable" for a female to wear male-typical clothing doesn't mean it's easy to be gender-nonconforming, or that it's easy to come out, or that it's easy to change the way you present yourself and the way people see you, or that it's easy to do a complete 180 on the way you think about yourself and your own identity.
Don't be a bitch just because you're jealous that your friend gets to wear men's clothes without getting beat up. That doesn't mean that he has it easy and that he should never be scared or nervous about anything.
>This is extremely acceptable for women and is a top fashion trend.
Except your friend is not a woman and doesn't want to be seen as a woman. He doesn't want to look like he's on a straight date. He doesn't want the guy he's going out with to think about their relationship as a straight relationship. He doesn't want the guy to freak out about the whole trans thing, to get cold feet, to change his mind, etc.
Really not that hard to empathize if you put a little effort into it anon.
>This is extremely acceptable for women and is a top fashion trend.
No, ok, no. I'm ftm and this is a misconception.
Dressing slightly TOMBOYISHLY (which is like the female version of effeminate/soft twink) is ok, SORT of, mostly if you can back it up with being straight.
As soon as you get actually masculine, you get hated on. My family made sure to strongly, vocally let me know I was throwing my looks away, I would look so ugly and awful, they were ashamed of their daughter for doing this thing. I was made to feel like a disgusting letdown. The only time anyone's said anything non-negative was during my back-in-the-closet stage when I forced myself into wearing makeup to be the "good "normal" woman" I was supposed to be.
For god's sake, where do you think the idea of "ugly manly/hairy dyke/bulldagger/whatever" comes from? They are ok when you have a cute little pixie cut and look soft and gentle, like Julie Andrews or something. When you actually look 1. gay, and 2. androgynous/butch/genderbending/MASCULINE, MANLY, it's absolutely seen as wrong and being a twisted disgrace of a female, not doing what females should, etc. A lot like a born male wearing a dress, having certain mannerisms, etc.
The social permission to be a little bit SOFT-tomboyish does NOT at all equate to acceptance of actually masculine females.
Also, that acceptance was fought for. Some decades ago, it was illegal for women to crossdress in public and as punished as it was for men (read Stone Butch Blues, it's about gay people in the 50s/60s/70s, if you don't believe).
Females basically fought in the early to mid last century just to wear pants, let alone to get any acceptance for mild tomboyishness. And even if we have that, the real acceptance for actual masculineness in females hasn't come yet.
I don't know why males didn't make a similar movement to fight for the right to have more clothing freedom, but they didn't. If they had done that at the same time, then effeminacy/femininity in males would probably be slightly more accepted.
Even then, actual femininity on the level of full crossdressing and trans-ish things would still be frowned on, same as actual crossdressing and trans-ish level of masculinity is frowned on in females.
We still have work to do, for clothing freedom and similar shit for both genders, really.
Don't act like women/born females can just dress however they want with no consequences. Maybe if you're living in some totally gay-friendly closed off bubble city, Queer-Metropolis like San Francisco or something, it's easy to think that and be blinded to anything else.
But you WILL get stared at, beat up for being a dyke, etc, in the rest of the normal world.
They;re the tumblr type and asking is a can of snakes I don't want to open. I suppose now I better understand the clothes part but she seems as woman as the next. He doesn't pass and only wears his binder from time to time but insists on male pronouns. While I agree he should be given respect, I also understand the frustration from those around.
I'm not jealous, just frustrated. Frustrated I have a bias against someone like me, but I give myself a pass. I'm not sure why I do it.
I'm not worried at all about being beat up as a mtf, I just got back from shopping around Hillcrest not too long ago. So comparing the risks to that of my friend and my feelings, I don't get it. No one seems to even care or notice when ftms go out in public, because most just register them as a female in casual unisex clothes.
Is this whole trans thing just some cringey mental fad now that everyone and their mom is dealing with it? Or is this the death of hardly embedded gender binaries
Let me respond to you then by saying most ftms I see are the soft tomboyish type.
I am all for growing facial hair, gaining defined muscles, butch, etc. my mom is a buff marine with hair that doesn't go pass her ears. That's just feminism.
I would completely side with ftms if this was more common in my experiences, probably why I am so biased.
If it helps you better understand my stance, I think of these girly, soft tomboyish,etc. ftms as the equal to the mtf's "hon".
The soft tomboyish type is "more common in [your] experiences" because they're the ones that don't pass or haven't started medical transition, so they're the ones you notice IRL and they're the ones that are louder online.
There are lots and lots of us who are very masculine and/or have been on T for awhile and pass well enough that you don't notice us. We are also the ones that tend to stop identifying as transgender, that tend to stop going to trans spaces, that tend to stop disclosing to new friends, that tend to go deep stealth as soon as we can manage it, etc.
It's a perception issue. Your sample size is not representative of the whole group.
>my mom is a buff marine with hair that doesn't go pass her ears. That's just feminism.
how is your mom's haircut the same thing as a political movement
>If it helps you better understand my stance, I think of these girly, soft tomboyish,etc. ftms as the equal to the mtf's "hon".
I mean, honestly, I used to add some effeminate aspects in the butch look before getting sick of it ruining my passing. After passing as male on T though, I'm interested in doing a slightly fem look, at least part of the time.
Most of the ftms I've seen who do this identify as transfags/bi, and are modeling themselves after gay boys and wish they looked like twinks. It's their shit luck that they have a vag instead.
A few of my ftm friends had this same style and it didn't make them hon-tier or less trans, etc, more than one had pretty bad lower dysphoria to boot if that makes it any more "real" to you.
I know most people don't get the fem ftm thing, but that's really what it boils down to. They want to look like twinky guys, and once they get on T they probably will keep that up, if they're doing it already.
>I just got back from shopping around Hillcrest not too long ago.
Hillcrest? You're in the San Diego area? Well shit, of course you're not worried about being beaten, the big cities in California are super liberal.
Yeah, my girlfriend's sister has a goatee, happy trail, beefy looking, etc. I'm in full support.
I by all means don't expect every ftm to be so masculine, but I meet so many of them half assing it, and taking any and every moment to bring it to someone's attention. I know it's important to know as far as pronouns may go but fuck.
I *wish* I lived in Hillcrest, quite the opposite actually. A small town in North SD called Oceanside, it's a military town. I dress here frequently too, if you were wondering.
>how is your mom's haircut the same thing as a political movement
This seems more in favor of my side.. I'll let that marinate.
I think the reason I judge ftms so harshly is because it seems to faux, or used only when convenient, or to give special spotlight. Maybe I really do just have a small sample bias.
Well, since you're in the SD area, who the hell is your friend? I know a lot of the trenders in the area. Is their name Ryder by any chance? If so that dykebag is a trender for sure
No. I won't name them, they're a nice guy just at the mercy of my projected worries for my own self.
I know only ftms, and all of them seem to just be riding a wave. It just makes every part of my body want to scream that isn't me, and I don't want to be associated.
I don't want to be associated with telling everyone I'm trans, barely passing but raining hell down on anyone who messes up my pronouns, mindfucking cis people with special snowflake preferences, etc. etc.
I use to think these people only existed on the internet, but as it turns out it accounts for just about every ftm I've met.
Actually if you don't mind, you wouldn't know a good place to meet other mtfs would you?
Although I have exposure with ftms, I've never really chatted or hung out with a fellow mtf. And I think it might help me with my own problems.
Sorry, I'm an FtM
I wouldn't know any places to meet MtF's but I do know a lot of the trenderqueers because of my connections into cosplay and shit
I hope you find an MtF friend though!
Haha. We may have even brushed shoulders once, I go to Anime Conji every year, small world.
No worries, maybe I just need to suck it up and join my colleges GSA club.
Thanks, I hope you remain happy.
This guy is spot on.
>Yeah, my girlfriend's sister has a goatee, happy trail, beefy looking, etc. I'm in full support.
If you're in full support, you wouldn't call him a sister anymore.
>I don't want to be associated with telling everyone I'm trans, barely passing but raining hell down on anyone who messes up my pronouns, mindfucking cis people with special snowflake preferences, etc. etc.
Those people exist in both ftm and mtf flavors, I've seen both, and honestly, they all make me cringe. I don't want to be associated with them, either. The tumblr personality shit is obnoxious.
(That comic is also tumblr trash lmao, good choice, I guess.)
Even then, it's not fair or even reasonable to judge what ftms are like based on interacting with the tumblr-type ones. There's tons of us who are nothing like that at all. You're getting an experience with (a) social circle/s which heavily leans towards those types, turning your bias to perceive all or even just most ftm guys to be that way, when we're not and that's inaccurate.
Thanks for hopefully considering what other people have been saying.