... or is it normal to see 'the man' even in trans women who are known for good passing? (at least on some images never met them in person)
At least with ciswomen that never happens for me...
Of course it doesn't happen with cis women. You notice the clocky features that male puberty brought with themselves. In combination with feminine skin and fat it can seem female, but you will always be able to see the underlying man skull.
>In combination with feminine skin and fat it can seem female, but you will always be able to see the underlying man skull.
Yeah I can always tell unless they've had major cosmetic face surgery, I just see MtF's and there's always just something off about them, they don't look right, alien almost, can't really put my finger on what it is though
If they get ffs and have the correct shaped face is like impossible to see the man. But andrejA is smart to get it not worth the risk but yes her strong jaw and slight brow bossing makes it so that she won't look completely 100% female average
Even some of the top named ones. High fashion is actually great because it puts the lie to morons who think they can always tell. If it was true, 99% of high fashion models are stealth trans women based on the usual "tells"
It's just retards memeing.
You are far more confident about this than you should be.
>There is a difference between a face that went through male puberty and one that didn't.
There is a very overlapping statistical distribution of features and I can promise you that you like everyone else on this board would fall for false positives n a heart beat.
I know your ego is too fragile to believe you could ever get fooled by a tranny, but coddling you is not my problem.
>I know your ego is too fragile to believe you could ever get fooled by a tranny, but coddling you is not my problem.
it depends on the circumstances but there are always hints if you know were you have to look and especially were you have to hear ;)
because you don't want to believe, that it's possible to see the male features in passing trannyfaces. Sounds to me like you are getting defensive, because your honish dream of perfect passing crumbles reading that.
I'll believe it when you can pass a double blind experiment. At this point the only experiment this board has passed says the exact opposite. You couldn't tell that someone is cis if you were told she's trans and would dig for false positives to feed your ideas.
>I'm different, I'm an expert
No, you're exactly the same.
Also fyi, my honish dream of perfect passing has already beaten the "keen" ""perception"" of more than one man like you. I don't pass 100%, but people like you are never the ones to clock me, and that's very funny.
I've seen women who've had worse feature then I have (bigger jaws, chins, deeper eyes) yet it doesn't seem to matter.
If you're just born female it doesn't really matter how much your face gets fucked up, people can just tell instinctively that they're female.
Whereas the best you can hope for is 'Is that a dude or chick' if you're trans.
Give me your stupid experiment. Make it hard.
You don't really get it. It's not about finding or looking for features. There are people that have tells and cis people that have similar features. Then there are trannies with very little tells and cis girls that look perfectly fine. However the tranny will always have the slightly more androgenic bone structure and that is what stands out. And you can see it. Easier obviously if you're told that the person is trans. If you don't know maybe you wouldn't notice the features, but they are there. And if you told me a cis person was trans, I would say, wow she passes well. Because I wouldn't be able to see a difference big enough anymore. You literally need FFS to get rid of the difference your male puberty makes. Otherwise you can just hope people don't catch up on your male features. And I srsly hope everybody on the planet lacks sharp sight just like you. Makes it easier for me to pass.
And yes, some girls in the passgen threads are cis. And we see it every time.
Who knows, who cares. The goal for every tgirl should be to simply do everything better than other cis girls. Makeup, fitness, and fashion are a good start if you aren't avoiding the responsibility getting a job, presenting as a woman full time, or living independently because of anxiety and depression. If you feel either of those things then you need therapy first. You need to get comfortable with yourself and be full time for awhile.
I think the concept of pass or fail with a trans person's appearance serves only as a barrier if the goal is be comfortable in your own skin and actually connect with society. Sometimes we have no choice but to keep secrets, but I think there's more stressors and anxiety if you're living in "guy mode" or whatever instead of being yourself. That's just my experience though.
Some people don't honestly understand what passing means so they focus on the wrong stuff. That is why they don't pass. The passing threads focus too much on beauty. I get being young is part of that, and vanity is expected, but it isn't about that.
>Give me your stupid experiment. Make it hard.
Trolls posting cis women in passgen and other similar threads and people explaining why they don't pass and what their male features is the test. And the board fails it with flying colors each time.
Now you're just strawmanning. I didn't do that. I remember the people telling the trolls to gtfo, because obv cis troll.
And of course there's gonna be people saying different things. That's bound to happen if you run a topic through a site like this. There's so many people here, somebody is gonna do that.
And the true test would be failing to see the trans in a person. If I couldn't tell the person was trans and WRONGLY accused someone of being cis. Because that would mean the male puberty didn't affect her face enough for me to be able to tell. But sadly the truth is that never happens. Every tranny looks trans, even if they pass.
How do you know that? And again strawmanning. What OP was getting on is that you can see the underlying man in a passing trannyface and I agree. And I think many people can actually see it.
>If you were told a cis woman is trans you would start doing the same thing.
(im cis girl myself)
Of course a transwoman has better chance of having a bigger skull, yet, you 'seeing the male' in every transwoman just shows that you're seeing what you wanna see and nothing else.
It's usually the size or smoothness. Everything about female skeletons is either smaller or smoother compared to males, even the ugliest of females compared with the prettiest of males
FFS should be covered by insurance as opposed to SRS. Not passing is one of the worst aspects of dysphoria and many transwomen commit suicide because of it. Also, since society is shit and forces most trans to go through male puberty, they should be held accountable and contribute to correcting that mistake.
It's not because of male-ish feature in themselves that they suicide, it's because of how it's perceived. It's not a trans problem in particular.
I understand MtF go through a lot of shit with dysphoria and all, but there is other group that are considered repulsive; handicapped people, fat people, sometimes even some ethnicities; black people have too large nose, asian people have too slanted eyes, etc..
You see what I mean?
It's acceptance of all kind of facial features and destruction of absolute ideal of beauty that should change
I'm cis girl, and I often see MtF posting pics of perfectly gorgeous women with perfect bodies, and I mean, that doesn't look like me at all either, I don't have perfectly feminine features, I don't have dysphoria indeed, but I don't identify with these pictures of perfect women you envy at all.
>It's not because of male-ish feature in themselves that they suicide, it's because of how it's perceived. It's not a trans problem in particular.
It's how others treat us. They may be revolted by a handicapped person, but society doesn't let them discriminate and attack the handicapped. On the other hand it is still open season on known transgenders. Even when we pass fine enough to model or act.
>You see what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean, but the revulsion towards them is not allowed by society. Time and time again I've seen people go from happily chatting with me to open revulsion and even attacks when they find out I'm transsexual. It's gotten better over the past few decades, but there is still a long ways to go. You can take only so many years of attacks before you realize there is no allowed place for you in society.
>but society doesn't let them discriminate and attack the handicapped.
Yeah that's true, now they have stuff to be accepted better and all, but this took time to be established, handiccaped people weren't always treated this way
>It's gotten better over the past few decades, but there is still a long ways to go.
Yeah I think that's it too, that sucks, I feel you
>there is no allowed place for you in society.
You can go to India if you want, there is something they call the 3rd gender
>but society doesn't let them discriminate and attack the handicapped.
BTW, discrimination and attacks on handicapped persons used to happen when I was a child. Society said enough, and laws like the ADA and other anti discrimination laws were passed and society became more hospitable for them.
>You can go to India if you want, there is something they call the 3rd gender
It's still a pretty lowly status for them. Yes they have a place, but it's near the bottom of the barrel with few allowed careers for them. If you are a Hijra you pretty much can forget about being a university professor. I know of many transsexual university professors in the USA.
>It's not because of male-ish feature in themselves
Hold up, I'll agree that how mtf are treated is likely a large reason why we kill ourselves at such a high rate, but male features are definitely also an aspect of it. Like I appreciate where you're coming from and I think it's nice, but for a lot of us we do have enough body dysphoria that it could lead to suicide. I resent the fact that if someday I don't pass, or even if I do pass but somebody finds out, that I won't be treated like an actual female, but more so than that I resent the fact that I've got enough male features that just seeing or even thinking about myself will always remind me that I'm just a fake girl who's gonna have to rely on pills the rest of their life.