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Can we discuss "Passing Privelege"...
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Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?

Do passing trans folks have more "worth" in this society then non passing folks?

What is "passing"?

Why do why as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?

Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?

Are cisgender norms a problem?
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>>5543979
I think trans people should make it a point to never fully pass not only because of the attitude they and others get towards "non-passing" trans but when they look cis and people are completely unable to tell they're not it erases the trans identity
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>>5543979
>What is "passing"?
Looking like the sex you are presenting as rather than a cross dresser.
>Why do why as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?
Because believe it or not individual sexes do look physically different and not having a physical body that matches your brain causes dysphoria and releasing this physical dysphoria is the main goal of transition for anyone who is trans.
>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?
No.
>Are cisgender norms a problem?
No.
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>>5544001
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>>5544059
Well memed m8
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>>5543979
I think passing privilege is when even if someone finds out you're trans (like when you have to tell a doctor's receptionist) they still accept and treat you as your desired sex. That's the privilege you have.

It's just hard to see people be delusional and sabotage themselves in any case. You see someone not passing, who went from male to hon, and it's like why does she tell herself she achieved her goal? How did she get so broken that she convinces herself she's happy like that? It's just as bad as living in denial about being trans in the first place, only now you're some bizarre goon instead of a normal person who can live a normal life.
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>>5544080
what you were serious? Let me laugh some more then.

>>5543979
>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?
No. If they do, they're just shitty people, that has nothing to do with being trans. They would look down on them even fi they were cis.
>Do passing trans folks have more "worth" in this society then non passing folks?
What?
>What is "passing"?
Looking like the opposite gender.
>Why do why as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?
Because socially being treated as trans or as someone of your birth sex causes dysphoria.
>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?
No?
>Are cisgender norms a problem?
No?

It's not weird to want to appear normal, anon.
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>>5544115
>what you were serious? Let me cry some more then.
ftfy
Now run along
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>>5544120
Cry at how desperately idiotic your ideas are? Maybe. Fucking grow up nobody's going to purposefully lower their quality of life like you're suggesting.
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>>5544136
>lower their quality of life
>bigots aren't the one lowering the quality of trans lives
How could anyone be dumb enough to believe this? You've lost this argument and it's time for you to leave
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>>5544147
>Please stop passing so I can feel better about not passing
Fuck off, if you want to make things better teach people to not judge others based on appearance, not by asking others to be ugly and condemn themselves to a lifetime of dysphoria you retard.
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>>5544156
>Fuck off, if you want to make things better teach people to not judge others based on appearance
That's what we're doing. But we're not there yet so we have to make some compromises
>not by asking others to be ugly
You don't need to pass to be beautiful you asshole
>condemn themselves to a lifetime of dysphoria you retard.
>100% trans are dysphoric
More memes?
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>>5544176
>You don't need to pass to be beautiful you asshole
Keep telling yourself that.
>dysphoria is a meme
What a joke. If anyone's actually undermining "trans identity" whatever the fuck that means, it's you.
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>>5544195
>dysphoria is a meme
I never said that and you know I didn't. I said you're claim that every trans person has dypshoria is a meme. If you need to put words in my mouth to win an argument then you're clearly in the wrong
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>>5544202
>you're claim that every trans person has dypshoria is a meme.
>you're
>not knowing the definition of meme
Jesus you are one misguided little shit.
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>>5544209
>you are one misguided little shit
Says the man who thinks non-passing trans make their own lives harder, all trans have dysphoria, and that beauty is objective. Which board are you crossposting from?
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>>5544209
not the person you're replying to, but bro... you got rekt hard.

are you stupid? or just a dumbass tranny?
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>>5544227
This.
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>be MTF hon
>pissed off at passing MTFs
>not pissed of at cis women, the most privileged people to walk the planet.
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>>5544271
they internalized that they could never have what cis women have, so they get mad at people who have what they actually could have ahd
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>>5544284
Oh, so like how dark skin black people hate light skin black people. Still, trans women need to call out cis women more often.
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>>5544271
>women
>privileged
>>>/r9k/
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>>5543979
>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?
Some do. It's a fairly normal practice in any marginalized community to further marginalize some part of itself to raise the relative status of the rest. Both recognizing and working to overcome that inclination are hard work. Some people don't know to bother to. Some just don't bother to.

>Do passing trans folks have more "worth" in this society then non passing folks?
All else being equal? Yes. Non-passing trans people amount to a complication of perception, and people desire for their world to have fewer complications. It causes a person to have to consciously respond "correctly" to social cues until they get used to that sort of thing. It sucks, but people like to take the easy way out.

>What is "passing"?
Looking (enough like) a member of a particular sex that you are consistently perceived as a member of it.

>Why do we as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?
Because it's comfortable and even enjoyable to have social interactions without all the stress that standing out brings. There are people who like standing out, but it's a very rare person that wants to do so all the time.

>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?
Not exactly? Whether we're trans men or trans women, we are (mostly) glad to live as men or women, because it's comforting to have a cultural affirmation of your identity. Self is a dialogical process, and the non-passing dialog is heartbreaking.

>Are cisgender norms a problem?
Slightly. Standards of physical worth placed upon both women and men are troubling to trans people because they're sufficiently strict that many cis people flunk out. Being trans won't make that any easier. Plenty of "non-passing" trans people aren't really not passing. They're just not attractive enough, and it's very popular to be cruel to "ugly" people.
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>>5544087
Because as someone who went the other way and stayed as a guy because my genetics weren't good enough when you are in situations like ours nothing literally matters. We are constantly thinking of suicide and just wanting our lives to be over. So really you shouldn't judge. You got LUCKY and that IS IT
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>>5544202
>>5544147
>>5544001
Oh fuck off you little special snowflake "I don't have dysphoria" type. If you and whoever the fuck else wants to be a hon feel free to, but I personally am trans because I wish I had a female body and not the shitty male body I was born with, the idea that I should try to not pass entirely to protect the "trans identity" is fucking bullshit I'm not male-to-trans I'm male-to-female, if I could be a cis woman I would in a heart beat. Nearly every masculine feature on my body causes me an intense amount of distress, sofuck no I'm not going to make it a point to not pass, in fact I make it a point to try as hard as I can to pass. If that hurts other non-passing trans I don't give a shit, I'm transitioning to deal with my own dysphoria, not theirs.
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>>5543979
On one hand pros to that tuber for being creative on a box opening
One the other hand that is very cringe worthy
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>>5544001
I'm going to disagree pretty strongly with this. Specifically because of suggesting people should try to never "fully"pass. What needs to be stressed is empathy and respect within our community regardless of passing. We're few in number, sure, but if at least among ourselves we show compassion, it will serve as a good reminder to cis people how to behave toward ALL of us. A habit of compassion is a good one to cultivate, and an even better one to spread.
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>>5544571
>Oh fuck off you little special snowflake
I thought you were a /r9jk/ MGTOW MRA type but seeing your latest meme it's clear you're /pol/. Thanks for clearing that up
>If you and whoever the fuck else wants to be a hon feel free to
It's not a choice. It's genetics you idiot
>shitty male body I was born with
Your body isn't male. It just isn't shaped in a way that the west has decided is female.
>the idea that I should try to not pass entirely to protect the "trans identity" is fucking bullshit
So you just don't care about the rest of us at all? Typical self hating /pol/jerker. Are you sure you're not from /gaygen/?
>Nearly every masculine feature on my body causes me an intense amount of distress
But it encourages every other trans person to come out. What about them, you selfish prick?
>If that hurts other non-passing trans I don't give a shit, I'm transitioning to deal with my own dysphoria, not theirs.
Ayn Rand would be proud. Way to be an ass
>>5544616
>We're few in number
{citation needed}
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>>5544712
>So you just don't care about the rest of us at all?
I actually don't really. I mean it's a damn shame the world see us the way it does and I'd fix it for all of us if I could, but I'm gonna put myself first like any reasonable person does.
>But it encourages every other trans person to come out. What about them, you selfish prick?
They can be encouraged by someone else? Also lmao at you calling me selfish for saying I should try not to pass and subject myself to more dysphoria just to prop up you and other hons.
>It just isn't shaped in a way that the west has decided is female.
No, I was born with a male body. Even if the west entirely decided the I could look like Bruce Willis and be considered a female, I would still have wanted to be born in the other body. That's why I'm trans, that's why I have dysphoria, I want the other body that I wasn't born with.
>clear you're /pol/.
Pffft, hell no. /pol/'d hate the shit out of me, I'm a druggie democratic socialist tranny.
>It's not a choice. It's genetics you idiot
When you're asking people to not pass you're asking them to choose to be a hon.
>Ayn Rand would be proud.
Well I'm not one of her fans, but she's got more fame and renown than me and I'd be glad to impress her.

Also if not all trans have dysphoria, then why can't the non-dysphoric trans just choose to be hons for the sake of everyone else? Meanwhile the rest of us that actually suffer from our condition can go about our lives making a genuine effort to stop hating our bodies.
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>>5544712
I'm not going to bother with a full citation, because I'm on my phone and I'm lazy.

The Williams Institute's 2011 report on LGBT populations place a "high" of 2% for adults with strong feelings of conflict about their assigned gender. The low is lower, naturally, and the number taking steps toward transitioning seems substantially smaller than that.

We seem to be a relatively small minority. If something exists that suggests otherwise, I'm all ears, but I've never seen a particularly high trans % in any study.
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>>5544545
Yes, sorry, I was working and forgot to add that follow-up. I only consider myself lucky in all my transition. Even though it's frustrating to see people who don't pass, deep down it's because we want it to be a problem they can easily fix. That way we don't have to work to be sympathetic, we just have to say "well they're not trying hard enough."

I planned on staying a guy if it didn't work out, and I only got lucky that I didn't have to deal with that decision. For these reasons I try my best not to be judgmental unless they clearly aren't trying (beard and wants to be taken seriously as a woman, etc).
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>>5544001
you're one of those crazy liberal white moms that wants to tell us how to un-oppress ourselves? this is a joke.
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>This thread
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cis white male shitlord here

If you fail to pass ftm you're going to be called out on looking like a pussy. This is naturally what we do to weak unmanly guys so that's part of the male experience.

If you fail to pass as a mtf you're going to be called out on being uggo. That's again what we typically do to ugly regular chicks. Mostly "locker room talk" though, not in public unless a guy is a complete tool.
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>>5544796
>>5544902

>>5544712 is a troll. but you know this, right?
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>>5546226
Yeah but sometimes I like to argue.

Also the concept of "trans people should make it a point to never fully pass" actually did hurt my feelings and make me upset enough to not give a shit if it were a troll or not.
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>>5546255
>make me upset enough to not give a shit if it were a troll or not.
isn't that the worst?
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>>5543979
if i identify as female, i want to be perceived as female by others. Its that simple.

also being an asshole and passing, are not mutually exclusive.

stop pass shaming OP, you oppressive shitlord.
like ummm srsly check your privelege, kay
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>>5544545
>not leaving it till your 40s
>'luck'
Sure thing gramps
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>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?
don't fucking care. if you aren't at least trying to pass, you are a plebian/trash

>Do passing trans folks have more "worth" in this society then non passing folks?
fuck yes

What is "passing"?
you know, passing. as in, looking like a normal woman, not some kinda inbetweeny freakshow

Why do why as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?
because the sane ones of us want to fit in, and only the crazy fucking attention seekers don't. also it's safer, and we get to live relatively normal lives.

>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?
no, it's because i fucking wish i was born cis

>Are cisgender norms a problem?
no, "queer" politics are a problem
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>Are cisgender norms a problem?

Gayfag here, just popping in to say stay in your fucking lane and don't try and alter the general populace with your gross fad.
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>>5543979
>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?
No, but they can certainly be creeped out, and feel disturbed by non-passing people, like everyone else.

>Do passing trans folks have more "worth" in this society then non passing folks?
Yes, obviously, like everyone that is either prettier, or more talented, than the norm, is.

>What is "passing"?
Looking like the sex you transitioned to.

>Why do why as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?
Because it's more or less the point of transition. If you don't pass, and "blend", you're going to be dysphoric.

>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?
No.
You need to completely misunderstand what transsexualism is if you even need to ask that question.

>Are cisgender norms a problem?
No.
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>>5546416
I forgot to add onto this...

>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?
No, but they can certainly be creeped out, and feel disturbed by non-passing people, like everyone else.

The ones who don't really pass, but are acceptable because they don't look disturbing, will probably look down on non-passables, so that they can feel better about themselves, despite not making it.
This is the kind that passable trans people may look down on.
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>>5543979
Passing mtf's might look down on non-passers as plebs because that's exactly what most women do to ugly women.

Attractive people have more "worth" and if you're attractive to normal people, it's a good bet you're passing.

Cisgendered norms are a solution. Improving medical technology is the solution that matters. Trans identity is a problem.

>>5544712
This post is a perfect example of why trans identity is a problem. Even if it is a troll, the identity culture it's based on makes trannies look really bad and serves as a magnet for crazy attention whores.
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>>5544271
MtF trans are much more privileged than cis women. Pre-transition, they have at least one decade of male privilege under their belt. Even if they alter their body to present as female, they are privileged in that they never have a woman's lived experience.
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As someone who passes I have a lot of sympathy for my nonpassing sisters. I basically don't involve myself with support groups and don't really join the trans discussion because transitioning hasn't really negatively affected my life like it has some other peoples.

But to all the nonpassers out there, I love you, hang in there, someday we'll totally reverse male puberty and your face won't be fucked up and you won't be 6ft tall.
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>>5546358
I started hormones at 20 retard
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>>5543979
>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?
I wouldn't say they're trash, but I'm definitely really uncomfortable being around non-passing trans girls, and I do my best to not talk to them if they are around.
>Do passing trans folks have more "worth" in this society then non passing folks?
Yes, because our society values beauty no matter your gender identity. All other things being equal, a more attractive person has more worth.
>What is "passing"?
Cis people assuming you are the gender you present as automatically and without question
>Why do [we] as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?
Social acceptance is just a big drive in people generally. And for trans girls, blending in means less danger when we go out.
>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?
I mean probably, we have pretty standard ideas of what men and women are and society doesn't like deviance from norms for that pressure will always be there.
>Are cisgender norms a problem?
Meh. I pass so idgaf. They probably are a problem but I kinda like trying to fit beauty standards and stuff
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>>5554084
LOL no..just no Cis-women are FAR more privileged then trans people. So don't embarrass yourself by comparing womanhood to a medical condition were people kill themselves.
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>>5554084
>never have a woman's lived experience
TERF plz go

Also, even if your argument was true, they have another kind of lived experience instead: that of being a transwoman in a world where that runs a high risk of getting you killed. The TERF "argument" is that tgirls had a lived experience as men and therefore are priviliged, but this presuposes what must be proven, i.e. that transwomen are not women but men - a.k.a. the fallacy of petitio principii or 'begging the question'.

In reality transwomen get to experience the joy of a lived experience as trans AND a lived experience as women IF THEY ARE LUCKY. Let me reiterate; the shitty conditions of women and their oppressed life-experiences is what transwomen are STRIVING FOR AND DREAMING OF, it is their aspiration.
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>>5543979
gosh i lova DamDam :D i usd to watch her stream every weeks !

>Do ever feel that the trans people that can pass look down on non passing trans people as plebians and trash?

Well, the only issue with non passing trans is when they try too much or are some stereotype, i hate this, i know some trans that don't pass but, they use some tricks too hide it, i hate trans who just "yolo" and wear dress even if it's really don't look good on them.

>What is "passing"?
When people said that even if you used to be a guy, they just can't see it, and see you as a female no matter what

>Why do why as a community put so much importance on "fitting in" or "blending in"?

Cause it help to pass, acting like them help too show that you are "normal" and help people to think you are the sex you identifie as

>Is this due to cisgendered norms forcing themselves on to the trans populace?

i don't think so, i mean, people don't care about trans people, but trans people care about being like cis people, they force themself to be like cis people

Are cisgender norms a problem?

No, well, there is stantard about how you have too look, but i myself don't really care about that and still pass so i don't really care about the norm
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>>5544147
>bigots are the reason dysphoria feels bad
How is it possible for queertards to be this fucked?
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>>5554107
>someday we'll totally reverse male puberty
Lol, over the rainbow
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